12th house, your own worst enemy or an actual hidden enemy?

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
But then you have at least the psychological explanation given by Jung of the collective unconscious, which is the objective repository shared by all humanity - Jung referring to one's conscious, personal unconscious and collective unconscious as broadly the psyche. This is point where one can feel that there are trying to look at the back of their head with their own eyes (without the help of a mirror)
 

Abby83

Well-known member
But then you have at least the psychological explanation given by Jung of the collective unconscious, which is the objective repository shared by all humanity - Jung referring to one's conscious, personal unconscious and collective unconscious as broadly the psyche. This is point where one can feel that there are trying to look at the back of their head with their own eyes (without the help of a mirror)

Oh that makes sense now.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
@ Abby

Inner referring to what happens "in your mind" or "inside yourself" . So it is taken as a certainty, at least in modern life, that the only things that are happening inside of yourself are just your overactive imagination or your psychological processes. There are objective places that requires you to use your imagination as an interface, at least in the initial stages.

I'm also a so-called 12th houser.

Well then I must be experiencing some pretty psychic s**t. I'm not sure if my unconscious mind is that smart when the dreams give me advise. I honestly believe my spirit guides are giving the info to me. There's no way I could know that stuff. I just wish the dreams would come when I want it. Eg: the last 6 yrs I've battled with my weight, and I finally got a dream a few days ago telling me what to do.
 
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Abby83

Well-known member
I have Saturn in 12H and I don't believe in my intuition, although it is sometimes true. I can sense people, but I can also be as easily swayed when they say I'm wrong. You also have 12H Saturn too, so do you share the same experience? Maybe the 12H is about finding your power beyond this world through the planet falling into it. Could the lesson for us 12H Saturn be to stop doubting our intuition?



On a more general note, the 12H looks like the house that people are the most uncomfortable. In our age of science, everyone wants concrete proof to believe in everything. The 12H tells us some things can't be explained, at least not in our scientific way, and it doesn't sit well with people. But there was a time when astrology was held at the same esteem as science, even though it can't be explained by science. Is the 12H calling for us to stop analyzing everything and just let the higher force deal with it?



Maybe the point of the 12H is it doesn't need to be explained. Some things are best left in the dark.

I do have natal Saturn in 12th house. But... It was only when Saturn transiting this house age 29 that I experienced the weirdest stuff. Which is when I started listening to those dreams and visions. Why? Cos they came true. A couple of yrs ago I even woke up at 2am seeing vision of someone on AW having a nasty attack on me and I saw the mod trying to intervene. Then I checked the site and it was true. The transit is long over btw, but I continue to pay attention to those visions/dreams. I think the 12th house transit forced me to pay attention cos at that time the dreams were weekly and it freaked me the heck out. But it was necessary weekly, cos I have a mother in law who was also focusing on me. Everytime she thought of me I could feel it and see what she was thinking. Then I'd look to astrology and see that the upcoming event was not going to be good.

Re your 2nd paragraph - OMG yes!! I have learnt my intuition is stronger. Sooo many ppl lie and in the end my intuition told me otherwise.
 
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CapAquaPis

Well-known member
My natal 12th house is divided by Gemini and Cancer (my part of fortune is 11', above the ASC node, 17' 33"). Analysis of someone's or anyone's 12h can tell something about them kept from them for the longest time. And my Juno is in 14' caught between the POF and rising point (Cancer being my personal sign).
 

Lykanized

Well-known member
I’m not 12th a houser, but I have a 12th house Chiron, both ruled by my Sun which I think gives it some significance. I suspect for this reason I ALWAYS feel as if I’m in the spotlight despite not at all wanting it. It causes paranoia for sure. Sun ruling the self, Chiron afflicting the house. Probably the cause of my nearly lifelong social anxiety

I’ve gotten to a point where I’ve realized that it’s not a matter of getting rid of this despicable subconscious assumption that I’m in the spotlight, but it’s a matter of learning how to handle it with better grace

In my case, it’s been my worst enemy but in no way do I believe it represents actual enemies despite the paranoia. I could always rationalize that for the most part, yet the feeling just doesn’t go away(by this, I mean I know and have known for years that even when I walk through a crowded hallway and feel the whole world can see me, no one gives a ****—should be liberating, but it doesn’t make the feeling go away). Therefor the solution must be to deal with that feeling, just run with it and stop despising it

My sun opposes Uranus my a wide angle which could add some eraticism, but it also has a harmonious aspect to Pluto which is probably beneficial to the sun ruled 12th house and Chiron regardless of its aspects

I’ve experienced a paranoia that I’m not good enough causing me to project onto others and feel as if they see me that way and that what they say or do is because of that. These traits were discussed in the thread so I can’t help but wonder if having a sun ruled 12th is at least similar to having a sun there

Connection to collective unconscious— Chiron(primal wound, wounded healer)in that house might also lead to paranoia if it’s an awareness of something that might afflict us all
Sun— the self. The sense of self or the ego perhaps suppressed or dissolved into that collective unconscious and needs to be reclaimed and owned
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
In our age of science, everyone wants concrete proof to believe in everything. The 12H tells us some things can't be explained, at least not in our scientific way,
This hits the nail firmly on the head concerning my 12th house Jupiter square 9th house Sun. But Sun is on an Earth trine!
Also of a separate Earth trine involving 12th Chiron-MEAN Black Moon Lilith to Ascendant.

Is the 12H calling for us to stop analyzing everything and just let the higher force deal with it?

What higher force?????:confused::wink:

Maybe the point of the 12H is it doesn't need to be explained. Some things are best left in the dark

I put this same question to the psychologist teacher (who, when seated, continually twirled his hair with his finger!) in an introductory course. He agreed that it isn't always positive (or wise?) of nature to intentionally 'stir things up'.
I'm still not sure whether I agree with him.
Is ignorance bliss???

I would agree with Lykanized that the 12th house has associations with 'the collective unconscious', yet which can also influence an individual's (personal) vision of its effect upon makind as a 12th house whole.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
I’m not 12th a houser, but I have a 12th house Chiron, both ruled by my Sun which I think gives it some significance. I suspect for this reason I ALWAYS feel as if I’m in the spotlight despite not at all wanting it. It causes paranoia for sure. Sun ruling the self, Chiron afflicting the house. Probably the cause of my nearly lifelong social anxiety

I’ve gotten to a point where I’ve realized that it’s not a matter of getting rid of this despicable subconscious assumption that I’m in the spotlight, but it’s a matter of learning how to handle it with better grace

In my case, it’s been my worst enemy but in no way do I believe it represents actual enemies despite the paranoia. I could always rationalize that for the most part, yet the feeling just doesn’t go away(by this, I mean I know and have known for years that even when I walk through a crowded hallway and feel the whole world can see me, no one gives a ****—should be liberating, but it doesn’t make the feeling go away). Therefor the solution must be to deal with that feeling, just run with it and stop despising it

My sun opposes Uranus my a wide angle which could add some eraticism, but it also has a harmonious aspect to Pluto which is probably beneficial to the sun ruled 12th house and Chiron regardless of its aspects

I’ve experienced a paranoia that I’m not good enough causing me to project onto others and feel as if they see me that way and that what they say or do is because of that. These traits were discussed in the thread so I can’t help but wonder if having a sun ruled 12th is at least similar to having a sun there

Connection to collective unconscious— Chiron(primal wound, wounded healer)in that house might also lead to paranoia if it’s an awareness of something that might afflict us all
Sun— the self. The sense of self or the ego perhaps suppressed or dissolved into that collective unconscious and needs to be reclaimed and owned

Well all I can say is I don't feel like I'm not good enough and I don't project onto others.
 

Lykanized

Well-known member
Well all I can say is I don't feel like I'm not good enough and I don't project onto others.
I will add I receive deep pools of information and I don’t know where it comes from despite knowing it’s true, but I think that’s more to do with what’s happening to my Mercury. I also have a strong connection to my subconscious and other realms, nameless realms. But that’s just my mercurial makeup possibly combined with the Chiron placement
 
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Abby83

Well-known member
I will add I receive deep pools of information and I don’t know where it comes from despite knowing it’s true, but I think that’s more to do with what’s happening to my Mercury. I also have a strong connection to my subconscious and other realms, nameless realms. But that’s just my mercurial makeup possibly combined with the Chiron placement

I don't think it would be mercury.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
Is your sun or Chiron there(in your 12th) or is it sun ruled?

Sun Pluto and Saturn are in 12th. 12th ruler and 7th ruler happens to be Venus in detriment square Chiron - I attract wounded enemies who are open and hidden enemies and they project their issues onto me. I hate it so much that they dump their issues on me for fixing.
 

Lykanized

Well-known member
I don't think it would be mercury.

In my case it is because I have a very weird mercury. After all, Mercury is communication and thought (weird and simutaneously prominent, connected to a prominent Neptune)
However that Chiron placement isn’t to be overloooked either. Supposedly the wounded healer there can produce some weird qualities as well
 
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Lykanized

Well-known member
Sun Pluto and Saturn are in 12th. 12th ruler and 7th ruler happens to be Venus in detriment square Chiron - I attract wounded enemies who are open and hidden enemies and they project their issues onto me. I hate it so much that they dump their issues on me for fixing.
Idk then but my experiences do fall in line with what was previously discussed in the thread
 

Gemini888

Well-known member
What higher force?????:confused::wink:
God, guardian angels, things like that...


I think my Saturn's ultimate test of letting go of knowing everything is through Horary and Tarot. The two systems have their sets of rules and you are supposed to just memorize them and they will work. But I can see some problems. For example, how is a late Asc an indication of a late question? What if the querent's situation is still at the early stage and the Asc just happens to be at a late degree? But turns out horary charts are pretty accurate. I really don't have any explanation for that. To boost, I also have moments when a horary chart contradict my own evaluation of the problem. Maybe, there is really a higher force at play here. You just don't turn them down because your logic tells you so. Have a little trust in the universe and you'll be fine.
 
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