Alcoholism

In order to solve the problem about whether it is Venus or Neptune that is more important why don't we take a number of different charts for either famous alcoholics (just look at the list of movie stars and music stars or alcoholics we know and see whether they have similarities in Venus and/or Neptune that could explain their alcoholism?

I have read articles also that associate degrees to addictive tendencies. I know that 24Deg. Sag and 7Deg. Scorpio are amongst them as I have them both.

24Deg. Sag turned up numerous times in my research for those addicted to alcohol or drugs.

The most notable of these in recent times was GIA the model .Jimi Hendrix ,Janis Joplin and Beethoven all had this degree highlighted in their charts.

7Degree Scorpio was mentioned in a book about murderer's and Jeffery Dahmer had it. I have bith of these degrees in my chart and have been accused of being an alcoholic,but rarely drink. My DOC was always cannabis ,but I gave that up.
I have always had trouble sleeping and need to take things for that.

At the moment I am experiencing severe back pain so I am taking something for that,but will end that I hope within a few days.

I take nothing for depression or PTSD.

The suggestion of looking at notable Movie Stars is a good one.

I would suggest study of AN Smth ,Montgomery Clift, Spencer Tracy, M.Monroe etc.

There is much to Marylin Monroe's chart that can lead t indicators like Neptune rising and planets in her 8th leading to her death.

Spencer Tracy & Monty Clift were both excessive users of drnk.

Looking at Monty Clift's chart just now Moon 24Sag. I am glad that I don't like alcohol!! Just a few beers and I get a hangover.I inherited that trait from my mother.

Monty Clift suffered from severe shyness. he had Pisces prominent.

No one has mentioned Jupiter,but it usually indicates excessiveness when indulging in food & drink also.

Thankyou for the link. My mother is an alcoholic. She has pisces asc and sun sag. There are two yods in her chart- one points to the sun in the 9th (which is also square neptune,(H6), conjunct the S.node and square her asc. -her health is affected adversely by her drinking.)On the lunar side of things, her moon is in watery cancer, cj. (retrograde) mars in watery cancer also.Her moon is sextile to Jupiter(cj chiron),square to uranus (she is a <nasty> drunk) and sextile to neptune (she likes to drink).Her mars is opposite venus (in saturns sign-cap). Saturn is inconjunct pluto and square her asc. Her H5 cusp is cancer and venus opposes this cusp..
In my experience pisces plays a big role in alcoholic's charts-esp when moon in or asc. ("drinks like a fish????"). Its hard to consider neptune NOT being a key player...as alcohol creates a blurred fog not unlike a neptune transit!Also
as the REASONS people drink are numerous it would be possible to identify alcoholic tendencies in the natal chartand then look to other aspects to account for the individual making a choice to drink..(whether a subconscious <coping> mechanism or indeed sheer over-indulgence without restraint-a weak saturn? or even an over emphasis on venus. One alcoholic I know has several trines to her venus- she likes to over-indulge. I also think the lights on or near the sth node show some fated <lesson> in regard to controlling the desire nature. Just my two cents worth. lillyjgc

deleted post.

Bill Wilson aka Bill W. founder of AA

11\26\1895
E.Dorsett VT.
73W 43:15n
3am
asc 17Libra

I wish I Knew what my dad and his parents and grandparents time of births were. His brother is also a alcholic. The majority of my dad's family are Alcholic's. I do know that my Dad was born August 4th 1953.(Leo) His parent's were both born on March 25th. They were both Aries. I am not sure about his great-grandparent's. His brother ws born the same day my mom was Oct.3(Libra). My mom will not touch alcohol, she cannot stand the taste. Since my uncle and my mom share the same birthday, I am assuming that the sun sign has nothing to do with it. It would have to be something else in the chart. My chart mentions a problem with addictions. I know that addictions can mean anything. I have never had a real addiction that I could not kick. I smoked and when I was ready I quit. I was drinking alot of coffee and quit that 6 months ago. I think growing up with a alcoholic really makes you see what it is that you do not want to be.

Greetings !

The astodatabank site has information about research done on Alcoholism and using a control group. Very interesting stuff.

There are 4 parts. Here is the link to the first part.

http://www.astrodatabank.com/AS/ASAlcoholism1.htm

Here is some brief info from the site:

The top factor that was found in the study was:
Sun or moon squ, opp, semi-squ, inca nd sesqui Mars, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto.

Also check the persons for tendencies to overindulge by looking at Jupiter.

Also a powerful but negetive Neptune can see and deal effectively with the truth but it is a painful struggle often met with indifference.


Best Regards,

--De

Alcohol dependence is associated with the ZNF699 gene.


There has been a suggestion that the irish as with the American Indians have a gene that makes them more susceptable to hooking onto alcohol, it is a poison to them, and it has been well documented we humans can become addicted to certain foods and drink that are actually no good for us. Also of course dependancy is also associated with childhood experiences detrimental to our psychi. As far as astrological influences are concerned i cannot comment as i dont know.

Les

Just digging up old posts like a grave digger, but what I have noticed is quite a few celebrities who have Mercury/Neptune are on drugs myself excluded of course . I am wondering what the deeper connection is here. Amy winehouse, Anna Nicole Smith, a famous writer who's name I cannot remember has an alcohol addiction, other celebrities have died of a drug overdose also have this aspect. Maybe the connection is not that significant but it does seem to be prominent.

Just digging up old posts like a grave digger, but what I have noticed is quite a few celebrities who have Mercury/Neptune are on drugs myself excluded of course . I am wondering what the deeper connection is here. Amy winehouse, Anna Nicole Smith, a famous writer who's name I cannot remember has an alcohol addiction, other celebrities have died of a drug overdose also have this aspect. Maybe the connection is not that significant but it does seem to be prominent.

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Also check the persons for tendencies to overindulge by looking at Jupiter.

Also a powerful but negetive Neptune can see and deal effectively with the truth but it is a painful struggle often met with indifference.

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Yes, one of the biggest loves of my life is a very old soul with lots of kindness and wisdom - but can't cope with this world very well - escapes through alcoholism.

He has a tight Mercury(r)/Neptune conjunction (1*orb) in Scorpio in an intercepted 11th house. Mercury rules his 7th and 9th houses. Neptune rules his 3rd. Jupiter rules his Ascendant, and it is in the 1st, in Capricorn.


(Also, has strong Scotch/Irish descent. His father was a raging alcoholic, as well, although not nearly as advanced a soul.)

What would seem to be the psychological factors inherent in these placements?

Hi there I am just curious I am only an intermediate astrologer,could you please elaborate on why the alcoholism link to Capricorn...I am extremely curious I used to work in detox/rehab and I was shocked at the amount of Capricorns in my care...Thank you in advance...My mom also a Cappy recovering alcoholic and she was BAD..

A badly afflicted moon is deffenitly a prime indecation of alcohol abuse. Probably first and foremost. Then I would say a strong neptune and planets in the 5th. Possibly even planets in the 12th or alot of pisces influence.

Shining Ray said:

My book finally arrived yesterday, An Encyclopedia Of Psychological Astrology. I had thought of buying the book when I read this article (link below) from astrodatabank they were using his method to study alcoholism in the chart. My partner used to be a heavy drinker in the past, and a lot of the astrological indicators matched up to his birth chart. I have posted his chart here with the link for alcoholism in the Natal Chart.

http://www.astrodatabank.com/AS/ASAlcoholism3.htm



I did a little test and compared my chart to my partners to see the difference in the number of indicators for each chart. As I do have a heavy Neptune chart but have never been an alcoholic or drug user.

Partners Chart and possible Alcoholic tendencies

• Moon in Cadent house

• Sun Square Neptune

• Sun Semi-Square Uranus

• Moon Square Mars

• Moon in Fire Sign

• Neptune in 5th house

• Mars inconjunct Neptune

• Ruler of 5th house squared by Saturn in a Water Sign

• Mercury in fixed 25th degree/Leo

My Chart and possible Alcoholic Tendencies

• Sun opposed Saturn

• Moon Square Neptune

• Moon in a water sign

• Ruler of 5th house oppose Sun in a water sign

I am still working out how to use the Semi-Square and the other aspect so there may have been more in the charts. But from this my partner had 9 indications and I had 4 indications according to the astrological rules for alcoholism. My partner then has twice as many aspects, not sure how many indicators would class you as having an addiction to alcohol, but my partner did have a lot more than me and with him being an ex- alcoholic so he should.

P.S I am still practicing looking for markers of Alcoholism so I hope I included most of the aspects.

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Dont bother with any semi squares they are minor aspects and dont tell much. I only use them if they are exact and prominent in sign or house.

Alcoholism belongs to Neptune, 12th house. any Moon connections there especially with water signs Scorpio and Cancer. Basically the water element when in challenging aspect. Neptune connected to Sun in Water also. The moon aspects denote the disease and it is a disease, coming genetically from the mother and with the Sun, from the father.

I have Mars Venus conjunct Neptune in a water house and Pisces rising and never had a problem with drugs or alcohol because of a Saturn sextile. Saturn will give discipline and caution. Pluto can enable you to overcome and transform if used wisely. I have a sextile to Venus Mars Neptune from Pluto, that is the only way I can discern why it is not a problem for me.

This discussion has been on and off on several communities,i different languages(countries).

I am a neptunian person with moon in pisces. I am a troubled soul. Between the age of about 18 - 30 I drank a lot. To forget, to be numb, to get out of myself. When I was sober I either worked or did so much sports I had no time to reflect about anything. All my best friends were actually drink buddies, even my partner. And when I realized that some years after 30 I slowly began to cut off the abuse. Today I drink almost never and I know it IS bad for me.

In my chart I´d say I have most of the traits that could indicate abuse. I´ve had three close friends who are alcoholix. I know some persons who have this sports-workaholic-drink too much at weekends-syndrome. That´s some kind of addiction too. Actually I can think of two men who have their personal planets in Via Combusta with this addiction, it means they are always "on the run" and never really present.

But on this other forum these things were listed as indicators (most people said they know alcoholics with these natal positions)

mars or moon in Pisces or leo
Sun or Asc in pisces or virgo (virgo especially for men)
afflicted neptune, neptune rising

In this forum venus was never mentioned.

The alcoholics I know all have the above mentioned OR personal planets in Via combusta.

Gwenyhfair said:

This discussion has been on and off on several communities,i different languages(countries).

I am a neptunian person with moon in pisces. I am a troubled soul. Between the age of about 18 - 30 I drank a lot. To forget, to be numb, to get out of myself. When I was sober I either worked or did so much sports I had no time to reflect about anything. All my best friends were actually drink buddies, even my partner. And when I realized that some years after 30 I slowly began to cut off the abuse. Today I drink almost never and I know it IS bad for me.

In my chart I´d say I have most of the traits that could indicate abuse. I´ve had three close friends who are alcoholix. I know some persons who have this sports-workaholic-drink too much at weekends-syndrome. That´s some kind of addiction too. Actually I can think of two men who have their personal planets in Via Combusta with this addiction, it means they are always "on the run" and never really present.

But on this other forum these things were listed as indicators (most people said they know alcoholics with these natal positions)

mars or moon in Pisces or leo
Sun or Asc in pisces or virgo (virgo especially for men)
afflicted neptune, neptune rising

In this forum venus was never mentioned.

The alcoholics I know all have the above mentioned OR personal planets in Via combusta.

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Very interesting about the last bit of information you gave. I have Mars in Leo, and Moon in Pisces. Plus my Sun is in Virgo (male). I definitely tend to count on alcohol because it helps me feel good about things. I don't drink all the time but I do enjoy it. I've tried to get a good grasp on it because I know it's not good for me. I definitely have an addictive personality so need to keep things in check. My Sun trines Neptune, and Neptune sextiles Moon so maybe that helps a little bit.

YES that is so true!!! Unfortunatly for someone who needs to watch two children and has been know to fall asleep The moon in his chart is leo. The chart ruler neptune, pisces asc. I think Jupiter may be in the 12th house as well, it fits better there. Oh no Neptune and the moon also have a square to each other and other hard aspects there. I am definatly looking for another babysitter!!!

Marie

I once came across a book called 'astrology and alcoholism' by one Ann Parker, though I did not buy it.

It suggested that there is a cluster of personality difficulties, possibly genetic too, that can predispose someone towards alcoholism, including a certain need for stimulation, called the 'alcoholic signature.' Neptune does figure, but the 'blame' is also put at the door of Moon-Uranus aspects, amongst one or two other possible 'culprits.' Jack London's chart was looked at certainly for clues to these alcoholic signatures, possibly Malcolm Lowry's too.

It is probably not in print now, but you never know with Amazon, if anyone is interested...

A very old and good friend of mine is an alcoholic and to be honest, if I were to see the chart, I would not necessarily have gleaned alcoholism from it. Ceres is rising in Leo, Venus opposes the Ascendant, South Node in the 1st is in Leo. Mars and Pluto in hard aspect to Moon also, and yes, her mother does rather sound like the mother than hell and certainly at the very least verbally abusive, to all her children from the sound of it, regardless of Moon positions in each case.

What I do see here is someone who 'has' to be happy at all costs, where it is Christmas every day and that can be such a dangerous route to take, if there is a lot of unhappiness to begin with. I think

Watching this is getting more disturbing, as now I can really see it as a disease process. This friend of mine is not unable to stop drinking, as this can kill, whilst someone recounted to me a tale about a famous Hungarian actor who did die, after stopping altogether - the body couldn't tolerate such a rapid withdrawal. Apparently, the actor in question drank because her parents had totally rejected her and her neediness always drove her partners away. I don't know the birth data in this case, though.

I don't know where there is just a drinking problem to begin with, and where 'alcoholism' begins. My father certainly has had a big problem with drink and sometimes I have thought it is a way of getting in touch with anger and hostile feelings: Libra Midheaven, but an Aries Moon and a Mars-Neptune conjunction square Venus.

The UK is perceived abroad as a nation of alcoholics - certainly in Italy, maybe not so in Hungary, nor I daresay in Poland or Russia, where heavy drinking is also part of the culture. The UK has that Pisces Moon, don't know about these other two countries.

What is disturbing then is that drinking can implicate a whole culture - the UK does seem to keep on having a problem with drinking, and with drugs - first, Victorian Mother's Ruin, now, happy hours and ecstasy, along with all he social problems.

Then too, someone kindly handed me a leaflet from al-anon at a festival here, full of the characteristics of the children of alcoholics. Some of these did not ring true for me at all, whilst others did evince the odd wince...my own Venus square Neptune.

Anyway, that is something else worth considering - the way that for every one alcoholic, there may be at least 4 other people who are being affected by the way that person's drinking.

CarrieLee said:

Hi there I am just curious I am only an intermediate astrologer,could you please elaborate on why the alcoholism link to Capricorn...I am extremely curious I used to work in detox/rehab and I was shocked at the amount of Capricorns in my care...Thank you in advance...My mom also a Cappy recovering alcoholic and she was BAD..

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I have a handbook on rulerships (Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book, published by the American Fedderation of Astrologers.) He gives alcoholism to Neptune and Pisces, and secondarily to Mars.

One way to look at this is that Neptune loves transcendance and illusions. Yet Neptune has a "trickster" side, in that its reverse face is disillusionment. Squaring the sun, Neptune can seemingly prod people to take another drink or pop another pill, in the hope of escaping reality, or finding the bliss of transcending it. Well, if substances are addictive, then escape from the substance may not be easily achieved.

I work a lot with the planets that rule signs on house cusps (so-called accidental rulers), so, for example, someone with the sun in Pisces (1/12 of the population) won't necessarily be an alcoholic, but if Neptune rules the Pisces sun' house, and Neptune is afflicted, you might find a comparable pattern.

I think the 5th house rules amusements, which would include drinking as a kind of entertainment or pleasureable activity. So this wouldn't necessarily indicate an alcoholic without other activities.

Capricorn is an interesting case, because they are often extremely self-disciplined. Yet if Capricorn is the sign on the cusp of their sun's house and Saturn is afflicted then they probably will feel keenly Saturn's sense of inadequacy, frustration, and limitation. Here, i would imagine someone drinking to dull feelings of low self-esteem.

So maybe not all alcoholics have the same route to their habit.

Capricorns can tend to be hard on themselves. The inner speak for the Capricorns is "get to work" "you are only ok if you work hard" etc. The hard and relentless - traditional Father has left his prescence in the early development of the Capricorn infant. Perhaps Dad was always at work and the child didnt think he was important enough? Unless that is, he went to work and worked hard.

Over time, maintaining this kind of driver in life the person becomes detached from who they really are, the other points in their chart that beg creativity and expression in the light of following the traditional Fathers "demands". Drinking is a way of disconnecting the driver messages to work or try hard. The Capricorn person feels free from that personality script after a drink. After a while they are drinking a bottle of scotch a night.

That is one story about Capricorns and drinking. Its ok for a Cappy to do things their own way and listen to their own needs in life.

kingsley

I have a lot of Neptune but haven't been addicted to any substance. The U.K has been known for drinking although I blame it on all the brits going abroad to Spain, drinking and making a show of us as a nation, those lager louts lol. My partner's Irish and they are known for their drinking and bad tempers, and his family are like this, genetics still playing a part. We all get labelled with certain traits as countries it might have to do with the Birth Chart of the particular place. Like America has Sagittarius rising, and they come across as larger than life and everything is done in a BIG way by over exaggerating, like the hysterical screams over the new president lol (madness, I thought they found the new Jesus the way some of them reacted) maybe my Sun/Saturn is too serious and I am underestimating this whole event in years to come I may understand all the hype, but I hate the way we all have to follow America's lead all the time. It's like their the centre of the world lol. Although they have the best fun parks I will definitely visit there.

Back to topic I agree drinking is genetic and often if a child has an alcoholic father which may be symbolized by Sun/Neptune the child struggles with same need to include Neptune in the personality and struggles with the need to escape, or feeling lost but the parent may have not been the best role model when it comes to facing lifes struggles and any hardships would have caused them to escape rather than face the problem. The person often has to find another outlet for Neptune rather than just the drink.