The planets don't influence you

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Hi Julia ,

Thank you for your insight !!

RaRohini,

So good to hear from you. I was hoping you would add your comments!

In my opinion,fate and free will are one and the same thing.
The type of energies given to you is 'fate'. How you use the energy is 'free will'.

This is a great way to put it! In the general scheme of things it is all fated. It is fated that we will all grow and evolve, we will come off the karmic wheel. We will return to the Divine. And the energies given to us for each incarnation do have fated components. But then it is up to us how we will live each life and that is where free will comes in.

The point related to arranged marriages in Eastern philosophy- it just makes things easier. Even if you choose your mate of your own free will, the energies that you attract will be those energies fated for you. That is why people generally tend to attract the similar type of lovers of again and again.

I have a great deal of respect for arranged marriages, given the high degree of happiness and stability of my friend's arranged marriages! The US could learn something from such a method of mate selection.

I was just taken aback by the role astrology plays in such decisions. I think this speaks to another difference between Eastern and Western astrology, the role it plays in day to day life. For example, I urge people not to make major life decisions based upon astrology alone, but see it more as an adjunctive tool. In the Eastern tradition, astrology plays a much more critical and central role in life decisions.

And yes of course, there is no denying that we keep repeating relationship patterns over and over again which we can attribute to fated energies. I see your point then, it makes no difference if the marriage is arranged or self selected, the energies will create the same patterns no matter how the marriage was determined.

Julia
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
An interesting metaphor. I compare looking at a horoscope like looking under the hood of a car.

It feels more like this for me.
Opening up something and examining the situation carefully.

When I am seeing a chart for the first time, I feel like I am in a huge room,
walking around, looking, examining, picking up things, putting them down.
Wandering around looking for clues and pieces of a puzzle. I am trying to put
things together and make sense of it. Hoping to put pieces together to make a coherent whole.
There is so much data in a chart it can feel overwhelming at first, but then it all starts
to fall into place.

Julia
 

RaRohini

Well-known member
RaRohini,

So good to hear from you. I was hoping you would add your comments!



This is a great way to put it! In the general scheme of things it is all fated. It is fated that we will all grow and evolve, we will come off the karmic wheel. We will return to the Divine. And the energies given to us for each incarnation do have fated components. But then it is up to us how we will live each life and that is where free will comes in.



I have a great deal of respect for arranged marriages, given the high degree of happiness and stability of my friend's arranged marriages! The US could learn something from such a method of mate selection.

I was just taken aback by the role astrology plays in such decisions. I think this speaks to another difference between Eastern and Western astrology, the role it plays in day to day life. For example, I urge people not to make major life decisions based upon astrology alone, but see it more as an adjunctive tool. In the Eastern tradition, astrology plays a much more critical and central role in life decisions.

And yes of course, there is no denying that we keep repeating relationship patterns over and over again which we can attribute to fated energies. I see your point then, it makes no difference if the marriage is arranged or self selected, the energies will create the same patterns no matter how the marriage was determined.

Julia

Hi !
Much love and light to you Julia !!
Yes i sometimes feel that the western method of selecting partners is good too.. because the astrologer may go wrong in horoscope matching and moreover one loses the charm of wooing the mate !
 

noraleader

Banned
Yes, I agree. We are not helpless victims. But it takes a certain level of conscious awareness to realize that.

I would say it's mostly a question of identity, of how we define ourselves.
i'd extend this statement to *if* we define ourselves see my sig notes on epistemology... :)

..it's difficult to perceive anything if we already have our minds made up about it, and amazingly, if reading cosmology theories on the internet and picking the one you like the most, connects more than experiencing autonomous consciousness, then, one's self definition will always be fallible to where it was sourced.


(..i like the "reflect not influence" concept, if one considers that mirrors may be distorted, tilted at an angle and such.. imo the same thoughts can be applied to any experiential stigma, if planets, why not crickets.)
 

RaRohini

Well-known member
i'd extend this statement to *if* we define ourselves see my sig notes on epistemology... :)

..it's difficult to perceive anything if we already have our minds made up about it, and amazingly, if reading cosmology theories on the internet and picking the one you like the most, connects more than experiencing autonomous consciousness, then, one's self definition will always be fallible to where it was sourced.


(..i like the "reflect not influence" concept, if one considers that mirrors may be distorted, tilted at an angle and such.. imo the same thoughts can be applied to any experiential stigma, if planets, why not crickets.)

Yo noraleader ! Where had you been ? 😃
 

noraleader

Banned
only dropping in to add a minor note to another thread :) too busy for this field atm. tbh my posts linked in sig are really all i got worth saying anyway :tongue:

hoping that people will continue to use these informations to validate and empower themselves and not their fave pet "superjugate" authorities :p as a species, rallying around leaders is so last century... folks spare a thought and a comment for west papua and all.. :joyful:
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Hi !
Much love and light to you Julia !!!

Thank you RoRohini, same to you!

I sometimes feel that the western method of selecting partners is good too.. because the astrologer may go wrong in horoscope matching and moreover one loses the charm of wooing the mate !

There is a lot to be said for romance and chemistry.
But practical considerations, such as compatibility, common background and goals are important as well.

LOL it is funny, you are making points for western style partner selection, I am arguing for arranged marriages! Vedic and Karmic astrologers go rogue. :)

Julia
 

muchacho

Well-known member
One difference is that the natal chart in Eastern tradition seems to be more of a fated life script, life events pre-ordained, etc. Life seems to have more of a set in stone feel to it, and the natal chart is examined in detail prior to major life decision making. Good friends of mine, from the East, were not permitted to marry because of a conflict between their natal charts.
Yes, every new Dasha period is basically seen as a new chapter and sub-periods as sub-chapters in your personal script of life. However, I've heard vedic astrologers say that if both marriage partners are in love with each other, then matchmaking charts aren't required anymore.

In Western karmic astrology, the emphasis is upon free will, not fated life scripts. We can see the astrological energy in charts, but free will determines how that energy will be used. In that way, karmic astrology is much less predictive than the eastern traditions.
I see the original focus in vedic astrology mostly on moksha. So there's definitely always a bigger picture involved. So this experience doesn't really matter much in the bigger scheme. But you are right, in the classic texts there are even planetary combinations for experiencing heaven or hell after death.

Another difference is that Karmic Astrology is less reward/punishment focused, but more about learning, growth and opportunity. Yes we bring back patterns from past lives, strengths and weaknesses, not for punishment, but for a chance to learn and grow. Life on Earth is not a picnic; we are here for a reason.

In Karmic Astrology we believe that each soul chooses his natal chart; the exact moment and place of birth is deliberately chosen prior to birth. The natal chart is seen as beautiful, perfect and as it should be for the maximum growth opportunity for each incarnation. You can see how this more positive view is quite different from western astrology as well. I am truly shocked by how many people post a reading request on this forum stating that they are terrified of their charts and are “doomed.”
That sounds a lot like Seth's approach.

The classical texts are really written that way, either sound health or plagued with severe illness, nothing in between. As a newbie who doesn't know how to synthesize a chart and put it all into perspective, it really can be depressing.

I see the natal chart as a gift from God or the Divine, it is a sacred document. Therefore it is treated with the respect and appreciation it deserves. This attitude is shared with the Eastern tradition, not so much with Western Astrology.

I should also say that I am not quite satisfied with calling myself a karmic astrologer, perhaps spiritual or soul astrology is a better fit. But most people are more used to the term karmic astrologer.

Julia
Thanks for clarifying, Julia. The way I see it western karmic astrology is mostly in alignment with the Seth material and not at all as rigid as I initially expected. That's good to know. My personal take would be more in alignment with the Abraham-Hicks approach, i.e. no lessons to learn or rungs on ladders to climb because it is intended to be a picnic and not as a test to prove our worthiness.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
Well stated!

The only thing I would disagree with is calling incarnations on Earth a "vacation".
Not true from most of us. Earth is a tough school.

Julia
Yeah, I think that's the main difference between Seth and Abraham-Hicks. The A-H focus is usually more on the moment we arrive here, prior to socialization. And so the outlook is definitely more optimistic, playful and empowering.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
This reminds me of something I've heard and thought about in the past regarding astrology. Most people seem to think that Astrology is about the STARS having INFLUENCE ON US, when in reality I think it is much more likely that the stars and planets may possibly be merely a PARALLEL to what is going on in the universe at any given moment, but the massive objects themselves are NOT THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL INFLUENCERS - if that makes sense.

What I'm saying is that essentially people think the planets themselves are the ones making events happen, but I'm saying that the planets and their positions are simply the visual representation - a map if you will - of how different energies are currently interacting and exerting force in the universe - so it is a visual guide - not that the actual gravitational force of each specific planet is having a physical effect on humans from Earth.

CAPS for EMPHASIS lol.
Gravitation as the major force is way too weak anyway. I think we can rule that out as the major factor. A mechanical model cannot explain astrology. There are other models of the cosmos like the Electric Universe model which points to a force that is several billion times more powerful than gravity. With that model things make a lot more sense but it still can't explain astrology. A model that can't explain reincarnation can't explain astrology either. So I wouldn't count on science.
 

Sweet Pea

Well-known member
And yes of course, there is no denying that we keep repeating relationship patterns over and over again which we can attribute to fated energies. I see your point then, it makes no difference if the marriage is arranged or self selected, the energies will create the same patterns no matter how the marriage was determined.

Julia

I picked up the book by Abraham-Hicks "The Vortex" in a bookshop today and had a quick dip into it. There is a section where the question is asked, "why do relationship problems keep on repeating?"

The answer was, that the person kept those experiences and that VIBRATION alive by dwelling on it, turning the experience over and over in their mind. The solution was to create a new vibration to allow a different manifestation. It wasn't specifically about astrology, but it does show that the free will aspect is about taking a set of aspects and making something better out of them, ie evolving your expression of an aspect.

:happy:
 

muchacho

Well-known member
i'd extend this statement to *if* we define ourselves see my sig notes on epistemology... :)

..it's difficult to perceive anything if we already have our minds made up about it, and amazingly, if reading cosmology theories on the internet and picking the one you like the most, connects more than experiencing autonomous consciousness, then, one's self definition will always be fallible to where it was sourced.


(..i like the "reflect not influence" concept, if one considers that mirrors may be distorted, tilted at an angle and such.. imo the same thoughts can be applied to any experiential stigma, if planets, why not crickets.)
Sure, but in order to function properly in society, you have to act as a person, i.e. you need an ego and an identity.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
You could say that many followers of astrology over-estimate astrological influence, but this quote from Bashar goes too far in claiming no influence. Edgar Cayce stated 80% of life (outcomes) is free will, but the 20% of outer influence is still substantial.
The good old 80/20 rule! :biggrin:
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Yes, every new Dasha period is basically seen as a new chapter and sub-periods as sub-chapters in your personal script of life. However, I've heard vedic astrologers say that if both marriage partners are in love with each other, then matchmaking charts aren't required anymore.


I see the original focus in vedic astrology mostly on moksha. So there's definitely always a bigger picture involved. So this experience doesn't really matter much in the bigger scheme. But you are right, in the classic texts there are even planetary combinations for experiencing heaven or hell after death.

That sounds a lot like Seth's approach.

The classical texts are really written that way, either sound health or plagued with severe illness, nothing in between. As a newbie who doesn't know how to synthesize a chart and put it all into perspective, it really can be depressing.


Thanks for clarifying, Julia. The way I see it western karmic astrology is mostly in alignment with the Seth material and not at all as rigid as I initially expected. That's good to know. My personal take would be more in alignment with the Abraham-Hicks approach, i.e. no lessons to learn or rungs on ladders to climb because it is intended to be a picnic and not as a test to prove our worthiness.

Muchacho,

Many thanks for the clarification and commentary.

Interesting that karmic astrology is more along the lines of Seth material, I hadn't thought of it that way, but yes that is correct. In terms of the A-H approach, I think I have some of the same thoughts as well. We are not meant to be martyrs or victims. We are meant to have happy fulfilled lives. But I would say that life on this planet is not a picnic. That is going to be my next life, I have already signed up for incarnation on a spa planet. :)

Julia
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Yeah, I think that's the main difference between Seth and Abraham-Hicks. The A-H focus is usually more on the moment we arrive here, prior to socialization. And so the outlook is definitely more optimistic, playful and empowering.

I like the bolded part. This is how the other side operates.
Discarnate beings who have passed over report this kind of environment in what we call Heaven. The beings there are not somber; they are upbeat, great sense of humor, joke around, and are quite empowering. So I agree totally with this description as something that we are meant to be on earth as well.

Julia
 

muchacho

Well-known member
I picked up the book by Abraham-Hicks "The Vortex" in a bookshop today and had a quick dip into it. There is a section where the question is asked, "why do relationship problems keep on repeating?"

The answer was, that the person kept those experiences and that VIBRATION alive by dwelling on it, turning the experience over and over in their mind. The solution was to create a new vibration to allow a different manifestation. It wasn't specifically about astrology, but it does show that the free will aspect is about taking a set of aspects and making something better out of them, ie evolving your expression of an aspect.

:happy:
I've got some quotes from A-H about astrology as well if you are interested.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
Julia, the Seth material is from the 60s and 70s. Could this be also the time karmic astrology became popular in the west? Just wondering.

I'm not sure if you've read about it in the Seth books, but there's also a 'Seth 2' as Jane phrased it. Seth 1 is the personality that dictated about 99.9% of the Seth material. But I remember at least one or two occasions where Seth 1 handed over to Seth 2 who spoke from a much 'higher realm' than the usual Seth 1. And the Seth 2 perspective is quite different from Seth 1. Probably more in alignment with A-H.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
Yes please Muchacho! :happy:

Alrighty, here's one:

Question: Those astrological configurations of oneself have a defining or fating factor as astrology states?

Abraham: Everything we are talking about is about creating. And creating is about thinking. And thinking is about setting a vibration in motion and the trajectory for this life experience did not start the day you were born. There was a trajectory that you had set into motion, and the precise timing and placement of your birth, perfect in every aspect, no exceptions, to what you were intending, to the trajectory from your non-physical resistance-free perspective. It's misunderstood and so many astrologers are trying to make it more cut-and-dried than we are able to do.


Excerpted from Sedona, AZ - March 15, 2014
 
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