Saturn conjunct Juno, Saturn Return, Lunar Return, Pluto conj Asc at the same time

Saturn conjunct Juno, Saturn Return, Prog Moon on IC, Pluto conj Asc at the same time

Hi all! I would just like to ask for help in interpreting my chart.

I have a tight Saturn-Juno conjunction in my natal chart. I have read that this could indicate a delay or denial of marriage. Although I hope it's just the former.

On January 26th next year, transit Saturn would be conjuncting my natal Juno. And a few days after, I would have the first direct hit of my Saturn Return.

My progressed to natal chart for January 26, indicates that the progressed moon would be conjunct my natal 5th house cusp.

Also, the progressed chart moon would be conjunting my progressed IC.

In addition, transit Pluto would be conjuncting my ascendant at that time.

It all sounds intense, knowing that they're all going to happen at the same time almost. I have read both negative and positive accounts based on these transits and progression. Have any of you guys experienced these things? How did it play out for you?

Do you think it's possible that something significant would happen in regards to my love life at this time considering that these transits and progressions involve Juno, my moon, 5th house cusp and ascendant? And if it does, will the presence of Saturn and Pluto bring an unpleasurable flavor to it? Does the saturn return and a pluto transit to an angle always mean difficult times coming?
 

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astrology02

Well-known member
Honestly i have pluto conjunct my ascendant now. I wouldn't say it is necessarily a bad thing. For me it is so much better than having pluto transiting my 12th house. Pluto conjunct ascendant represents a turning point in our life…when you decide "enough is enough". At this time I am FINALLY figuring out what I want in life & not afraid to go after it. I do find a couple confrontations from people here & there…maybe because as pluto conjuncts the asc , it is also opposing the descendant. I don't know as bad as this transit sounds, I actually am embracing this time because I know it is needed. If you ever want to be happy you have to get rid of things that are making you upset..and pluto does that. Pluto clears away everything, it only is painful if you refuse to let go. I think this transit is a blessing in disguise.
 
^That's very comforting to hear. It's just quite daunting that Pluto will conjunct my ASC at the same time I will be having my Saturn Return. Plus the progressed moon activity. I think it will really be an intensely emotional time for me. And I'm not a big fan of being emotional. At least on the outside. I do have a moon in Taurus in the 4th house but my Cappy ASC just urges me to look composed all the time. I've gotten pretty good at it. People think I'm always okay, happy and content (Venus conjunct MC) even though I'm going thru whatever. I really do believe in fake it til you make it. It works out for me.

But reading on Pluto conjunct ASC transits, from what I understand from it...it would change the way you present yourself to the world and consequently affect the way others see you. I am wary that I will be perceived as a drama queen when that time comes. But we'll see. I've had emotional outbursts lately and that's just not me. If it gets more intense, I'll be damned. But Pluto says let go, right? Maybe I should and would just stop giving a rat's butt of what they think of me. Especially partners. My Venus in Libra always seeks harmony even at my pride's expense. When the times comes, maybe I will snap and finally quit playing the nice guy. And maybe that's what's going to delay or deny myself a partnership? Haha I don't know. I hope not.
 

mdinaz

Well-known member
Saturn conj Juno implies an inability to make the compromises essential for a successful partnership - it can also imply setting the bar impossibly high for you or the partner. The moon rules the 7th and is opposite Pluto, again showing an inability to compromise or meet partners equally. Mars is in Taurus conj ASC, showing an unyielding and stubborn demeanor, and trine Moon, a very active component of your personality. Edited: see correction in below post.
Saturn/Juno are also square Vertex and sesquiquadrate Vesta in the 3rd. Vesta is where we put into the Universe our thoughts and beliefs, where we send our devotional energy for manifestation. With the sesquiquadrate of Vesta to Saturn and Vertex also, the energy sent to the universe is one of irritation, annoyance, and with Vesta in Aries, also of selfishness and being demanding. As this is the demeanor and attitude sent to the universe, this is what is manifested by the Universe at the Vertex. The partners you create are simply mirrors for yourself, and this is a major life lesson and life path for you. Wherever you go, there you are. With your node opposite the MC, your status in life will always be stymied by this situation - you must learn to subsume your personality and will to the needs and desires of others. This doesn't mean cave in to every whim of another, but learn to meet them halfway in a spirit of partnership and growth, not as a competitor or adversary while fighting over turf.
 
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^My mars is actually in Capricorn, conjunct ascendant. :) I think that's what you meant as well.

You are spot on. I am pretty stubborn when arguments arise. My Libra Venus is square my Mars in Capricorn. It makes me hard to reconcile these two sometimes. Whenever there are things that tick me off, I try to brush it off but when it builds up and I can't contain it anymore, it just comes out in less desirable ways. Nothing violent. I just either walk away or shut people off. I do get annoyed easily when people do the things that they say they won't do or keep doing things that they've already apologized for.

I never oaid attention to Vesta. I didn't know that it did that! I guess that's why my most significant relationships are with people that have heavy Aries, Capricorn or Taurus influence. They can be selfish or incredibly stubborn or just moody. I guess they ARE like me. When I get mad that is. I dont want people to get the idea that I am a class A b!tch. I am pretty likeable as what people have told me but when I get upset, it's not pretty. I have never had arguments with friends. Just lovers. Or my mom (probably brcause of Moon opp Pluto).

Thanks for that reply. That's very eye opening. I will work on these. Maybe this is what the universe is wanting me to change about my personality. I personally do not like it either. But you know, nobody's perfect. By changing these parts of me, I hope I could become a better adult. Or be an adult, as what Saturn Returns are vehicles for.
 
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Zarathu

Account Closed
I think its more likely that you have long standing natal chart issues that you need to address which make it difficult for you to deal with Partnership relationships.

Some of those are as follows:

1. A Tight YOD with a Jupiter Focus

2. A Kite with a Moon Focus and a reaction point of Neptune

3. A grand Earth Trine(Moon, Saturn, Neptune)

4. Moon, Mercury, Mars, and Saturn all in Critical degrees

5. and Out of Bounds Mars

6. A powerful and high friction 11th house of friends and you plans for the future.

7. A very powerful and high friction Sun Square Saturn

8. An even more powerful and even higher friction Moon Opp Saturn.

9. Fight or flight issues tend to consume you for a longer time when new situations arise shown by your ASC.

10. And after you have resolved the fight/flight issue, you spend a much longer time dealing with personal security before collecting lots of data about what to do with your powerful but low friction Mercury(which often procrastinates you, but is probably exacerbated by the grand Earth Trine). We would see this by the Moon in Taurus and the 4th house.

---
All of these things are solvable or they wouldn't be in your chart, but they bring up issues in how you interact with the world and other people.

It would be interesting to see if your current mental and emotional challenges are reinforcing your natal issues, but to see that I would need to know where you were living when you were quite young, specifically:

a. August 20, 1987

b. September 1, 1988

Zarathu
 

mdinaz

Well-known member
Yes you are correct, Mars in Cap - I was looking at the Moon in Taurus trine Mars while typing that. Mars in Cap is better than Mars in Taurus since Taurus is a fixed sign and Cap a cardinal sign. However in some ways it makes this activity even more so since Mars being opposed the DSC still shows a tendency to be combative with partners and others on ostensible equal footing to you. Being an earth sign it is still unyielding but rather than being stubborn in Taurus it can be more aggressive in cardinal Cap. Great for business and politics, not so much in love relationships unless you desire a relationship like Bill and Hillary Clinton that is more a business arrangement than a love relationship.

The Saturn return is the first "eye-opener" event as to what the world is all about; it is the first review of a person taking an honest, mature look at what their life has been about up to that point. If you have learned some of your lessons, then the next Saturn period can be productive. If not, it can be highly destructive as you revert to the behavior of an adolescent but have the responsibilities of an adult. For some people Saturn returns can be highly disruptive. Consider it a mid-term exam and helps determine whether you will ever make it to graduate school or not.
 
Zanathu,

We were living in Makati, Philippines both those times.

I shall ponder on what you have pointed out and try to put some examples of experiences regarding those into words. Thanks for your input! They do resonate with me.

mdinaz,

I am combative. I can be quite harsh when arguments arise. It's like I can't stop myself from lashing out. Then afterwards, I will apologize profusely for being so mean. It makes me feel bad to lash out on loved ones but I really can't help it sometimes. I dont want to implode. Maybe the universe wants me to be more in control of my emotions. Because otherwise, I am a pretty zen person. I hardly let people in. But once they do, I think I tend to scare them with how intense I can get. They get blindsided because they're used to me being all accomodating and nurturing and loving and stuff. Both my significant lovers have told me that I am the best girlfriend that they have ever had. But my fits are just as memorable. :/
 

mdinaz

Well-known member
You shouldn't keep emotions in, that is harmful and can lead to many illnesses and diseases. You'll just have to learn how to vent in a healthy way that doesn't destroy your relationships. Let people know in advance that you have this issue, and that if you feel you are going to lose control, tell them you are going to walk away and you can discuss it later. I think they will appreciate that more than being a target of one of your outbursts. Also learn to not dwell on issues, especially ones that have already been discussed or resolved. Your body can't tell the difference between real fights and ones imagined in your head, and neither can the Universe - it creates what you focus on, and if you focus on old fights, even from years ago, the Universe will continue to create new situations for you based on those thoughts.
 
I think its more likely that you have long standing natal chart issues that you need to address which make it difficult for you to deal with Partnership relationships.

Some of those are as follows:

1. A Tight YOD with a Jupiter Focus


I am not so familiar with quincunx aspects so I just tried to read about it from Astromatrix. It says:

Venus inconjunct Jupiter

You easily overextend yourself. Overindulgence and exhaustion can come from feeling over-optimistic about yourself and what the world will do for you. You take on obligations that are other people's responsibilities because you feel so good about yourself. You are happy and healthy when you learn how to set real limits without being talked or coerced into overdoing it, in some area of your life.

Characteristics of Venus inconjunct Jupiter
Generosity, Optimism, Consideration, Aspiration, Overconfidence, Charm, Socialite, Pomposity, Ambition, Creation

Shadow
Laziness, Conceit, Indecisiveness, Vanity, Indulgence, Fanatism, Possessiveness, Being Jealous

Mercury inconjunct Jupiter
Exaggeration is second nature to you. Whatever you focus on tends to grow in your mind without anything happening in the external world. Circumstances in life can easily seem much better or much worse than they really are. Learn to trust other people's assessment and to judge life more on the concrete facts and less on moral pronouncements which tend to be very colored by self justification and avoidance.

Characteristics of Mercury inconjunct Jupiter
Generosity, Optimism, Intelligent, Gullability, Aspiration, Overconfidence, Perception, Pomposity, Resourceful, Quick

Shadow
Laziness, Conceit, Indecisiveness, Two-faced, Nosy, Fanatism, Instability

From these, I am going to admit that I can get quite indecisive. When I break up with someone, it's hard for me to stick with my decision once I realize that

a) I have made a big deal out of something that can be talked over (exaggeration); or
b) I feel that we can give it another go and it will be better the next time around (overconfidence); or
c) I had faults too and that I should be more tolerant of the other person's being human (optimism); or
d) the relationship was better than I gave it credit for (fanaticism).

I don't necessarily think I am vain or conceited. I have good amount of self-confidence but I'd like to think that my Moon in Taurus keeps me grounded somehow. I do get overly generous, even after breaking up, with the mindset that the other person used to be special to me and thus, it should remain that way forever and I should keep on doing nice things for them long after the breakup. I am good friends with all my exes. I am strange (and quite daft) like that. I also tend to be a stickler to my morals and principles and I guess that makes me self-righteous. I realize that it's wrong and that that's not what should happen. I guess I should change that.

I have read that a yod is actually a good thing once you learn how to integrate the energies of the planets. But I am at a loss as to how to work these placements in a harmonious manner. I am still a newbie at astrology and don't know for sure how to compound the houses, signs and aspects in order to make an interpretation and/or render advice based on it.


2. A Kite with a Moon Focus and a reaction point of Neptune


Perhaps you mean a reaction point of Pluto? Still a newbie so I don't know which chart you are referring to but all I know is that my Taurus moon is in opposition to Pluto in Scorpio in my natal chart. Kites are another thing that I have read are supposed to be good. Once you learn how to use it. But I don't know how this moon opposite Pluto aspect is going to help me out. So far it's been doing me more harm than good. How do you suppose that this aspect can be beneficial?

3. A grand Earth Trine(Moon, Saturn, Neptune)


Which chart is this in? By any chance, did you mean Moon, Neptune and Sun grand Earth trine? Because my Saturn in actually in Sagittarius. :) Again I don't know how this plays out. Especially with Neptune in it. Does it make me likely to be idealistic perhaps? Because I have been told that I am. But from the sounds of it, they don't mean it in a good way. Haha So I don't know if having a grand trine is good, as per what they books suggest.

4. Moon, Mercury, Mars, and Saturn all in Critical degrees


Can you help me with these? I have read about it once you pointed it out. I have never really noticed that. What does it mean when you have four critical points in your natal chart? Does it mean that I will always be in crisis once transits or progressions come in contact with these points?

5. and Out of Bounds Mars


I have never heard of this. But I did read about it once you mentioned it. Come to think of it, according to the interpretations of OOB Mars, I can get quite aggressive. And I tend to defy the norm often. I tend to listen to the beat of my own drum. I am quite fearless. Which is good in leadership positions, I guess. But not in relationships. I have never been violent though. I guess my Venus in Libra keeps my actions in check. At the end of the day, I still crave for harmony. And if arguments arise, I opt to walk out. Or give the cold shoulder.

6. A powerful and high friction 11th house of friends and you plans for the future.

How do you say that my 11th house is powerful? Is it because Saturn is in it?I have never really paid attention to the 11th house so I don't know. And what does "high friction" mean exactly?

7. A very powerful and high friction Sun Square Saturn

How is this aspect powerful? I think this aspect does ground me somehow. I am pretty happy-go-lucky, or at least that's what my heart desires. But Saturn reels me in every time. I can't say it's good entirely. I think this is what makes me become realistic, sometimes to the point of pessimism. But it does give me tenacity, which I guess trickles onto my relationships.

8. An even more powerful and even higher friction Moon Opp Saturn.

Again, do you mean Moon opposite Pluto? How is it more powerful than the Sun-Saturn aspect? Isn't it that the sun's aspects supersede the moon's? Again, I am quite new to astrology so I want to learn as much as I can.

9. Fight or flight issues tend to consume you for a longer time when new situations arise shown by your ASC.

How is this reflected in my ASC? I do have fight or flight issues.

10. And after you have resolved the fight/flight issue, you spend a much longer time dealing with personal security before collecting lots of data about what to do with your powerful but low friction Mercury(which often procrastinates you, but is probably exacerbated by the grand Earth Trine). We would see this by the Moon in Taurus and the 4th house.


YES. Unfortunately. That is often the case. It's amazing how much astrology can say about a person. I really do want to make myself better. Recent experiences have urged me to look deep within. I'd like to think I am a good person, as what people who are close to me say, but I know something's amiss. I guess it coincides with my Progressed Lunar Return a few months ago. I am more focused on my emotional health lately.

On January 26, 2015, alongside the first hit of my Saturn Return on (January 29), my progressed moon will be on my progressed IC too. So I guess it will cause more emotional issues to surface. Pluto will also be on my ascendant on that time. I want to be more aware of my flaws this early on so it doesn't blow up in my face (as much) when that time comes. I know it wouldn't stop the universe from teaching me a lesson, which I am anticipating would be a not-so-sweet experience. But I do want to have a review of what I have done and how I have grown to become so far.

Thank you for pointing these out! Reading about the things you have noticed about my chart definitely struck a chord. I do hope these could do more good than harm for me. I think being more aware of them can afford me to use these things to my advantage, rather than to my detriment. It's exciting to read about how "rare" and "special" kites, grand trines and yods are. Especially if you apparently have them. But it's no walk in the park to materialize for sure. But I'll get there. I hope. :)
 

Zarathu

Account Closed
Yeah...I wrote that out for you last night at 1:00 AM in the morning my time.

Not a good time to be writing things down. I seemed to have mixed up some of the planets that you got right. Seems I can't copy from one program to another!

How about if I go through the whole thing with you? I can't do it all at one time, and its now already 10:00 PM here.

So I will have to do it a little bit at a time. Is that alright with you?

REMEMBER THAT YOU DESIGNED THIS LIVFE BEFORE YOU CAME HERE with help of course, and that nothing you have provided for your personality self to do when you were not a personality self but only a Soul Self, is something that you cannot accomplish. There is nothing here that will be too hard for you as long as you are willing to work with what you've been given and not try to use things that have fences around them so that you don't use them. You already know the fences. They are energies and skill areas that seem to go wrong when you are not careful.

I can say honestly that everyone can be successful because no one is given anything they cannot handle.
 
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You shouldn't keep emotions in, that is harmful and can lead to many illnesses and diseases. You'll just have to learn how to vent in a healthy way that doesn't destroy your relationships. Let people know in advance that you have this issue, and that if you feel you are going to lose control, tell them you are going to walk away and you can discuss it later. I think they will appreciate that more than being a target of one of your outbursts. Also learn to not dwell on issues, especially ones that have already been discussed or resolved. Your body can't tell the difference between real fights and ones imagined in your head, and neither can the Universe - it creates what you focus on, and if you focus on old fights, even from years ago, the Universe will continue to create new situations for you based on those thoughts.

Funny that you say that. I recently gave birth this March. I am not married yet. And my baby's father and I are not together. We're civil though. We are on opposite sides of the globe right now. I had to come back to my home country after my work visa in US expired. We tried to work it out but I guess long distance relationships are hard to maintain. Especially for him, he says. He said he needs to experience the physical aspect in order to feel a relationship. He has Venus in Cancer (2nd house), Mars in Taurus. He's a good guy and a good family-oriented man (Sun in Cancer). But he can get quite critical (Moon in Virgo). And I could get quite stubborn (Moon in Taurus) despite me aiming to be just and diplomatic (Venus in Libra). It was hard. And having our Mercuries in Leo, it's a battle of the ego whenever we fight.

We decided to call it quits. Months before I gave birth. We were in constant contact. He says he loves me still and will always love me. But it's just difficult that we're apart, geographically. He wants to be with me. But can't since he's in the army. And I can't just go there and spend long periods of time since what's left with me is a tourist visa.

I was such in a bad condition emotionally. But I would always put a happy face on and would strive to be happy for our baby. But I guess it took its toll on me because after I gave birth, I developed peripartum cardiomyopathy. I guess containing the negative emotions literally hurt my heart. I developed pulmonary edema because of it and I could hardly sleep because I felt like drowning every time I lie down. I was rushed to the hospital and now I am on meds.

I'd like to think that my physical tenacity (OOB Mars) and perpetual optimism (Venus in Libra in the 9th) afforded me another life. My moon in Taurus also made me strive hard to be better for my child.

All that you've said is great advice. That is what I do now. My baby daddy told me that I scare him and that I am his emotional weakness. That woke me up. I try to just cool off before talking to him now. But sometimes I still slip. I do want to have a satisfying relationship. And I think that sans my pride and temper, I would have it good. I have learned not to be too idealistic especially when he told me that I should "get off my high horse". Didn't occur to me that I was being too morally stubborn.

I'll try to keep it more zen from now on so I don't ***** up my future relationships. Or my "relationship" with him. I'd like to think that we're great with each other and that my Juno in Sagittarius (likely marriage to a foreigner) is referring to him. His Sun and Venus in Cancer are on my descendant. But I have got to fix myself first so that I can be a better partner.

I will form better thoughts from now on knowing that it has a great effect in my reality. Thank you so much for your advice! This is such a big help. :)
 
Yeah...I wrote that out for you last night at 1:00 AM in the morning my time.

Not a good time to be writing things down. I seemed to have mixed up some of the planets that you got right. Seems I can't copy from one program to another!

How about if I go through the whole thing with you? I can't do it all at one time, and its now already 10:00 PM here.

So I will have to do it a little bit at a time. Is that alright with you?

REMEMBER THAT YOU DESIGNED THIS LIVFE BEFORE YOU CAME HERE with help of course, and that nothing you have provided for your personality self to do when you were not a personality self but only a Soul Self, is something that you cannot accomplish. There is nothing here that will be too hard for you as long as you are willing to work with what you've been given and not try to use things that have fences around them so that you don't use them. You already know the fences. They are energies and skill areas that seem to go wrong when you are not careful.

I can say honestly that everyone can be successful because no one is given anything they cannot handle.

I totally agree with your thoughts. And I will be thankful for whatever help you can provide!
 

Zarathu

Account Closed
I re-read your question and your responses and I think that this is moving toward a full analysis of your chart rather than just looking at individual aspects of it.

I have no problem doing that but..... so I'm sending you a PM.
 
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