Planets on House Cusp

G

Good12

Member
Hello,

I have some planets on cusp of my house. More specifically, my Sun, Moon and Mercury. How many degree does a planet have to be in range to be considered in next house? My mercury is especially important since its my 1st and 10th house ruler. Since it is Retrograde, it would appear its going towards the 8th house. Not sure if that makes a difference. How would you interpret planets on cusps?

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/Rara1210/astro_2gw_01_z1849916848_zps98561d98.gif
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
'…...In no other area of astrology is there so much mess and confusion than in the area of the so-called 'houses'. There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.

The more commonly known house systems are:
Whole signs(oldest)
Equal House(1st century BC)
Porphyry(3rd century AD)
Alcabitus(6th century)
Campanus(13th century)
Regiomantus(14th century)
Placidus(17th century)
Koch(20th century)

Others include: Meridian(Midheaven), Topocentric, Morinus, Horizontal, Geodetic, Zodiacal, Svarogish, Krusinski, and so on.....' http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html


'…..In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains, are supposed to represent general areas of life activity. They are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for the planets. There are generally twelve houses, although in extreme northern or southern latitudes there can be ten, depending on the house system used....'

on astro.com 'Extended Chart Selection Page' anyone can experiment and create any natal chart in any one of the fourteen different house systems available - Placidus is just the default :smile:

In ancient times astrologers used Whole Sign Houses for topics and then Porphyry to assess the planetary strength which worked well because then for Whole Signs one whole sign = one whole house so there is no 'dilemma' regarding 'in which house' is any particular planet located

Using Porphyry or any one of the later house systems allowed any astrologer to then ASSESS THE STRENGTH OF THE PLANETS

i.e. regarding your natal chart in particular, your natal Mars is in angular using Whole Sign houses BUT NOT ANGULAR USING PLACIDUS HOUSES
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Various authors (over the centuries) have given various degree orbs for when a planet is considered to be in the next house (or sign); these have varied from 1 degree (followed by many of the Islamic transitional era authors, such as Ibn Ezra) to 2-3 degrees (some Modernist authors), to as many as 10-15 degrees (!) by a couple of authors over the past 30 years or so; many authors, however, state that as long as a planet is in a house even by less than1 degree it is to be delineated ONLY as in that house; some authors say that when within orb of 2 houses the planet is to be delineated as if in BOTH houses (with an emphasis upon the house the planet is still actually in) So, best thing to do is to read the opinions (and experiences) of different authors and come to your own conclusion.
(Me?? Unless the planet is under 30 minutes from the next sign/house, I delineate it only in the house/sign it is still in; if closer than 30 minutes to the next sign/house, I often-but not always-interpret at as affecting that house/sign IN ADDITION to the house/sign it is still posited in)
 
Z

Zarathu

Account Closed
When an astrologer uses a house system, s/he is familiar with that system and uses it for all his/her chart analyses. The concern here is not for the house system placement, but for the exactness of the birth time.
 
G

Good12

Member
JUPITERASC:

I havn't heard of whole sign concept before, yet its the oldest known. It is very interesting and I am doing more research into it.

Dr. Farr:
The Planets are defiantly under 30 minutes of the next house. Even 10 minutes will put the planets into different houses.

And here is the kicker:

Zarathu,

I unfortunetly do not know my exact time of birth. I only have an approximate time from my mother and aunt. My birth certificate does not have a time of birth.
So I dont have much to go on. One thing I can say is that the Sun in the 8th apparently makes sense for me. Many articles and descriptions relate Sun in 8th with loss/lack of father in early life, which is accurate for me. But Sun is in hard aspect to both Pluto and Moon, creating a T-Square. That may indicate the same thing as Sun in 8th. I have been trying to use that Sun in 8th as a reference point for my entire chart.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Good12 said:
JUPITERASC:

I havn't heard of whole sign concept before, yet its the oldest known. It is very interesting and I am doing more research into it.

Dr. Farr:
The Planets are defiantly under 30 minutes of the next house. Even 10 minutes will put the planets into different houses.

And here is the kicker:

Zarathu,

I unfortunetly do not know my exact time of birth. I only have an approximate time from my mother and aunt. My birth certificate does not have a time of birth.
So I dont have much to go on. One thing I can say is that the Sun in the 8th apparently makes sense for me. Many articles and descriptions relate Sun in 8th with loss/lack of father in early life, which is accurate for me. But Sun is in hard aspect to both Pluto and Moon, creating a T-Square. That may indicate the same thing as Sun in 8th. I have been trying to use that Sun in 8th as a reference point for my entire chart.
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Hi Good12 - not having a reliable time of birth means uncertainty regarding the Ascendant. There is a thread with more detailed discussion on ways of resolving unknown birth times at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51626 :smile:
 
G

Good12

Member
Hey JupiterAsc,

I just wanted to clarify. When I say approximate, I meant being off by 10-20 min. In my case, for example, the approximate time is 2:30. I asked them if it were possible it could be 2:00 or 3:00, they said no. So they confirmed its close to 2:30. Means it would probably range from 2:20 to 2:40. The 20 minute variation is enough to shift few planets into different houses. Although, most of the planets are fairly secure in their houses without question. Mainly Mercury and Moon and possibly Sun. But I doubt Sun would be in 9th since Sun in 8th fits me.
 
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G

gen6k

Well-known member
the houses are leaning towards placidus, whole signs, koch.

you have to test them out yourself rather than projecting. through experiences for example that you've had.

is your NN 8th or 9th?
for example

other ways you can do this are. find the degree of the house cusp. this is shown at the bottom of astro.com charts.

2, 3, 11, 12

houses are earthly designations of the zodiac the distance of reciprocation from the sky energies.

by examining the degree that it lands on, and none of these are probably 100% accurate. as well as one house system being the only real one its more like every section in some sense its definetly recursive.

its possible to look up degree descriptions for these "critical points" which are kind of like sub-angles [1, 4, 7, 10] which is the angular cross.

its really some type of Midpoints of Angles.

well whole signs or equal house are midpoints, unequal houses are rasterations
of influence.

you can also wait for a planet to cross the degree of the cusp and notice if anything changes.

in terms of what i agree with so far is placidus and whole signs.

i guess the arguments for unequal houses are in terms of angularity of influence is regional space or localized space of earth. first the geography is uneven, second the purview of the earth life is not a spherical midpoint.

why do they both logically work (placidus versus whole signs or equal) inside the intrinsic logic of house output?

the shift from placidus to equal is in the division instead of the change of ingress. placidus is merely a wobbly equal house. designating a similarity of overall output.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Good12 said:
Hey JupiterAsc,

I just wanted to clarify. When I say approximate, I meant being off by 10-20 min. In my case, for example, the approximate time is 2:30. I asked them if it were possible it could be 2:00 or 3:00, they said no. So they confirmed its close to 2:30. Means it would probably range from 2:20 to 2:40. The 20 minute variation is enough to shift few planets into different houses. Although, most of the planets are fairly secure in their houses without question. Mainly Mercury and Moon and possibly Sun. But I doubt Sun would be in 9th since Sun in 8th fits me.
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Hey Good12 :smile:

Thanks for the clarification. Most if not all natal charts are inevitably at least a few minutes 'off' since most mothers are not looking at their timepiece while giving birth!

Your natal chart in particular is a good example of how being 10 to 20 minutes off either way CAN make a difference - in some cases a massive difference since planets being in another house change the entire interpretation.
 
G

Good12

Member
I have done fair bit of research checking both houses the planet could be in, and reading descriptions of the various qualities implied in those houses. Part of the problem is that many websites and other sources give different views on the same subject. It is hard to find consistency.
For example, Mercury in 9th gives a religious and philosophical tone to mercury. But I am not religious and only somewhat philosophical. I believe in "practical philosophy." The first conclusion is Mercury in Taurus in 9th fits that very well, although thats about the extent of it. Mercury in 9th implies lots of travels, education, law etc. I do live in a foreign country but the rest does not apply. I do not feel education is major importance, atleast not formal education. I find theoretical concepts that have no practical value useless. I have Saggi on IC which indicates living in foreign place. Also read that Mercury in 9th relates to the father. My father did travel the world extensively and was knowledgeable about many diverse subjects.
I personally enjoy researching topics of interest and like mysteries and hidden knowledge etc. I enjoy problem solving. I'm especially interested in financial world. More specifically, money that can be made through interest, investing, capital gain, but not actually running a business. I was also left behind a good amount of inheritance which is indicative of Sun in 8th. All of this implies 8th house Mercury, but then you consider my Third house is in Scorpio, and if you bother to include Pluto, its there too. Second house ruler Venus in 7th which implies income through "others."
I may be wrong on some of the things above, but its likely due to bad sources etc. Perhaps you can recommend certain books/articles etc?
 
Vista

Vista

Well-known member
Good12 said:
Hey JupiterAsc,

I just wanted to clarify. When I say approximate, I meant being off by 10-20 min. In my case, for example, the approximate time is 2:30. I asked them if it were possible it could be 2:00 or 3:00, they said no. So they confirmed its close to 2:30. Means it would probably range from 2:20 to 2:40. The 20 minute variation is enough to shift few planets into different houses. Although, most of the planets are fairly secure in their houses without question. Mainly Mercury and Moon and possibly Sun. But I doubt Sun would be in 9th since Sun in 8th fits me.
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You can write the hospital for this information as if should be recorded there. My ex boyfriend did this. You would be surprised how off people can be recollecting the birth time.
 
G

Good12

Member
Vista said:
You can write the hospital for this information as if should be recorded there. My ex boyfriend did this. You would be surprised how off people can be recollecting the birth time.
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I was actually born at home :joyful: Guess I was taken to hospital afterwards im assuming. Not sure..
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Good12 said:
I have done fair bit of research checking both houses the planet could be in, and reading descriptions of the various qualities implied in those houses. Part of the problem is that many websites and other sources give different views on the same subject. It is hard to find consistency.

For example, Mercury in 9th gives a religious and philosophical tone to mercury. But I am not religious and only somewhat philosophical. I believe in "practical philosophy." The first conclusion is Mercury in Taurus in 9th fits that very well, although thats about the extent of it. Mercury in 9th implies lots of travels, education, law etc. I do live in a foreign country but the rest does not apply. I do not feel education is major importance, atleast not formal education. I find theoretical concepts that have no practical value useless. I have Saggi on IC which indicates living in foreign place. Also read that Mercury in 9th relates to the father. My father did travel the world extensively and was knowledgeable about many diverse subjects.

I personally enjoy researching topics of interest and like mysteries and hidden knowledge etc. I enjoy problem solving. I'm especially interested in financial world. More specifically, money that can be made through interest, investing, capital gain, but not actually running a business. I was also left behind a good amount of inheritance which is indicative of Sun in 8th. All of this implies 8th house Mercury, but then you consider my Third house is in Scorpio, and if you bother to include Pluto, its there too. Second house ruler Venus in 7th which implies income through "others."

I may be wrong on some of the things above, but its likely due to bad sources etc. Perhaps you can recommend certain books/articles etc?
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Good12 there's a thread with a post on it presenting some useful information regarding delineating finances using traditional sources: "DELINEATING NATAL CHART 2nd HOUSE"

viewable at: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=384790#post384790 :smile:
Omnisphericus said:
2nd House is movable possessions of which the Money are the greatest representative.
the house position of the Lord of 2nd often shows the area of life which produces the money income for the native.

Lord of 3rd in 2nd shows that native's money are related to the kin and siblings.
Lord of 4th in 2nd: income from parents and inheritance.
Lord of 5th in 2nd: income from children, art, creativity, performance.
Lord of 6th in 2nd: through servants, servitude, professional skills.
Lord of 7th in 2nd: through the partner, the opponents are responsible for money income or decrease.
Lord of 8th in 2n: partner's money are native's money.
Lord of 9th in 2nd: through journeys and philosophy.
Lord of 10th in 2nd: through career and work, through honors.
Lord of 11th in 2nd: through Friends and Groups.
Lord of 12th in 2nd: through hospitalizations, prisons and secret things.

Lord of 2nd in 1st shows that money comes to the native easily.
Lord of 2nd in 2nd: - II -(same. Or, from the death of the partner (2nd is 8th from 7th in derived houses).
Lord of 2nd in 3rd: native gains profit through the kin and siblings. Through writing, traveling on short journeys, and through communication.
Lord of 2nd in 4th: Native gain's or loses (money) profit through family, inheritance, immovable properties, lands and etc.. or, money goes to the parents.
Lord of 2nd in 5th: through children, gambling, creativity, art, performing.
Lord of 2nd in 6th: money through applying the professional skills, through servitude, or money goes to the servants.
Lord of 2nd in 7th: money goes to the native's partner or opponents. Native gains through partnership or through the spouse.
Lord of 2nd in 8th: the native's partner gains from his death. The native uses the partner's money.
Lord of 2nd in 9th: native is spending money on long journeys and philosophy. Money through journeys and philosophy.
Lord od 2nd in 10th: native spents money on career. His work and career brings him money.
Lord of 2nd in 11th: native gives money to the friends, friends are using the native's money. Native gains through friendships and organizations.
Lord of 2nd in 12th: Native gives money to hospitals, prisons, secret societies and etc..
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D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Good12 said:
Dr. Farr:
The Planets are defiantly under 30 minutes of the next house. Even 10 minutes will put the planets into different houses.

For clarification of my post, I was referring to 30 minutes of degree ARC, not 30 minutes regarding time (eg birth time) When I refer to 30 minutes of arc I mean the following: say (using whole sign houses) that the next house starts at 0 Aries, and that a planet is posited at 29degrees 2 minutes of Pisces: for me, that would (usually) be beyond my 30 minutes of arc orb, so I would (usually) consider that planet " as in Pisces for my delineative purposes; now suppose this planet were in 29degrees 58 minutes of Pisces: this would be within the 30 minutes of arc orb I (usually) follow and I would (usually) then consider that planet to be affecting ("defacto in") the next house/sign (Aries), although still being influenced (and influencing as well) Pisces (to some extent)....
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R

ReggaePassion

Active member
Good12 said:
Hello,

I have some planets on cusp of my house. More specifically, my Sun, Moon and Mercury. How many degree does a planet have to be in range to be considered in next house? My mercury is especially important since its my 1st and 10th house ruler. Since it is Retrograde, it would appear its going towards the 8th house. Not sure if that makes a difference. How would you interpret planets on cusps?

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/Rara1210/astro_2gw_01_z1849916848_zps98561d98.gif
Click to expand...
First off, I notice in your chart, your moon is important in relation to some of the cusp degrees.

In my chart, it's Sun, Saturn and Jupiter. All three planets occupy the same degree as the asc and the rest of the cardinal points which is 9 (although Saturn and Jupiter are at 8 something, still very close to 9 while the sun is at 9 something the asc is 9 EXACTLY so are all four points.) I consider this to be a weird coincidence and I am not sure what it means. I think it's weird all the cardinal points are at 9 degrees and so is the sun. That is just too freaky!!!!

I notice your moon is at 18, it lines up with your asc and the cusps of your MC/IC which are not technically house cusps but still, houses 5 and 11, and by a degree or two, houses 6 and 12. Maybe this means the moon is more elemental in your chart, then let's say, the sun? You feel the influence of the moon more? Maybe you are more moon centered than sun?
 
G

Good12

Member
ReggaePassion said:
First off, I notice in your chart, your moon is important in relation to some of the cusp degrees.

In my chart, it's Sun, Saturn and Jupiter. All three planets occupy the same degree as the asc and the rest of the cardinal points which is 9 (although Saturn and Jupiter are at 8 something, still very close to 9 while the sun is at 9 something the asc is 9 EXACTLY so are all four points.) I consider this to be a weird coincidence and I am not sure what it means. I think it's weird all the cardinal points are at 9 degrees and so is the sun. That is just too freaky!!!!

I notice your moon is at 18, it lines up with your asc and the cusps of your MC/IC which are not technically house cusps but still, houses 5 and 11, and by a degree or two, houses 6 and 12. Maybe this means the moon is more elemental in your chart, then let's say, the sun? You feel the influence of the moon more? Maybe you are more moon centered than sun?
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Moon is definetly a strong point for me. I'd say stronger then Sun. Also Moon is the only planet that has stressful aspects without any positive ones. Definetly felt very strongly.
 
Y

yyyyyyyy

Well-known member
I have moon 20 minutes from my DC and feel that both the descriptions for 6th house moon and 7th house moon apply for me. i seem to seek emotional security in work OR personal relationships.

edit - using placidus
 
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IleneK

IleneK

Premium Member
Good12 said:
Hello,

I have some planets on cusp of my house. More specifically, my Sun, Moon and Mercury. How many degree does a planet have to be in range to be considered in next house? My mercury is especially important since its my 1st and 10th house ruler. Since it is Retrograde, it would appear its going towards the 8th house. Not sure if that makes a difference. How would you interpret planets on cusps?

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/Rara1210/astro_2gw_01_z1849916848_zps98561d98.gif
Click to expand...

I think the orb to the cusp has been well discussed, but to answer your question about Mercury within a degree or so of the 9th house cusp, but retrograde. To me that would clearly keep it in the 8th house, since it is moving away from the cusp.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Good12 said:
Hello,
I have some planets on cusp of my house. More specifically, my Sun, Moon and Mercury. How many degree does a planet have to be in range to be considered in next house? My mercury is especially important since its my 1st and 10th house ruler. Since it is Retrograde, it would appear its going towards the 8th house. Not sure if that makes a difference. How would you interpret planets on cusps?
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/Rara1210/astro_2gw_01_z1849916848_zps98561d98.gif
Click to expand...
Hello Good12 :smile:
Interestingly there are more than thirty different house systems... http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.htmlFurthermore and the house location of planets is entirely dependent on the particular house system chosen.

On their "Extended Chart Selection Page" astro.com allows one to experiment with fourteen different house systems and, one notices immediately that your natal Mercury is in whole sign 9th house when viewing your natal chart using whole sign houses
 
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