Fear vs discipline and saturn

clip11

Well-known member
Ive noticed that saturn and capricorn are said to bring discipline wherever they are. But for me ive noticed that those signs control by fear than discipline

To me being disciplined implies a free choice free of fear to do one thing but choosing to do another because you think its the best thing to do. But to me it seems like wherever saturn is placed or capricorn it brings fear which stops me from doing what my heart really wants to do. So if i abstain from something where saturn is placed its not because i want to or i feel its the best course of action its because its clouded by fear not clear thinking discipline.
 

Lin

Well-known member
you get your Saturn messages from 1) the authority figures you grew up with and 2) the position by sign and aspects of Saturn in your chart.

If Neptune is connected fear will be strong. If Saturn opposes personal planets it means you had some bad experiences with authority figures in your childhood.

If Saturn is debilitated you will probably have issues with all authority figures like bosses, teachers, law enforcement, doctors, lawyers and the same authority figures from your childhood.

With positive aspects to and from Saturn you will be more self disciplined. Either way, the more mature you get the more you must find your own "authority figure" within.
LIN
 

clip11

Well-known member
you get your Saturn messages from 1) the authority figures you grew up with and 2) the position by sign and aspects of Saturn in your chart.

If Neptune is connected fear will be strong. If Saturn opposes personal planets it means you had some bad experiences with authority figures in your childhood.

If Saturn is debilitated you will probably have issues with all authority figures like bosses, teachers, law enforcement, doctors, lawyers and the same authority figures from your childhood.

With positive aspects to and from Saturn you will be more self disciplined. Either way, the more mature you get the more you must find your own "authority figure" within.
LIN

what does it mean for a planet to be debilitated?
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Debility = Weakness

Mars in Taurus, for example, is debilitated because he is in exile, as far away from his home in Scorpio as he can be. He is unable to act effectively and his actions will tend more toward the negative qualities of Taurus than the positive. So this Mars might be lazy, given over to lust and sensuality, unreasonably stubborn and hard-headed....

Many different things can debilitate a planet.
 
With these thoughts in mind, let’s take a brief look at Saturn’s placement within the 12 signs:

Saturn in Aries: Necessary effort toward independence and self-motivated action. Need to temper excessive aggression and impulsiveness.

Saturn in Taurus: Necessary effort toward achieving stability and long lasting security. Need to let go of excessive rigidity and the fear of change.

Saturn in Gemini: Necessary effort toward communication and study. Need to let go of excessive reasoning and confusion.

Saturn in Cancer: Necessary effort toward emotional expression, nurturing the self & others. Need to temper excessive moodiness.

Saturn in Leo: Necessary effort toward creative, joyful self-expression. Need to temper excessive self-absorption.

Saturn in Virgo: Necessary effort toward precision and perfection. Need to temper excessive tendency for (self) criticism.

Saturn in Libra: Necessary effort toward harmonious social expression. Need to balance excessive need for others’ approval.

Saturn in Scorpio: Necessary effort toward discipline and (self) mastery. Need to release repressed negative emotions.

Saturn in Sagittarius: Necessary effort toward mental expansion. Need to let go of know-it-all attitudes.

Saturn in Capricorn: Necessary effort toward goal achievement. Need to let go of excessive control.

Saturn in Aquarius: Necessary effort toward humanitarian activity. Need to release excessive distrust of authority.

Saturn in Pisces: Necessary effort toward feeling the ineffable. Need to temper excessive escapism.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
All of the definitions of discipline except one ("self-control") point toward the imposition of discipline by external authority.

And like it or not, that's how the world works. The problem is not Saturn's, but yours. You have not accepted the unavoidable reality of the world.
 

david starling

Well-known member
All of the definitions of discipline except one ("self-control") point toward the imposition of discipline by external authority.

And like it or not, that's how the world works. The problem is not Saturn's, but yours. You have not accepted the unavoidable reality of the world.

Dealing with Saturn is the burden of this Age of (tropical) Capricorn. Those who handle it the worst are those in power, which makes Saturn look bad.
 

Lin

Well-known member
Saturn represents your "limitations." Also it represents the way you need to build up your particular weaknesses - be they physical, mental, intellectual, psychological.

Debilitated means that a planet is not supported by good aspects like sextiles and trines or Quintiles....sometimes conjunctions.

It means the planet is "undermined" by the aspects they are attached to. Their energy is not "flowing" or "easily used in a positive way."

EVERY chart is different.

We don't all have the same limitations because we all have different Saturn placements.

If you post your chart or your birth information maybe someone will post your chart and we can see what you have to deal with specifically.

It's not easy to understand Saturn in "posts" on any forum. Whole BOOKS have been written just on Saturn alone! One of the best, "Saturn, A New Look at an Old Devil" by Liz Greene.

LIN
 
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clip11

Well-known member
Saturn represents your "limitations." Also it represents the way you need to build up your particular weaknesses - be they physical, mental, intellectual, psychological.

Debilitated means that a planet is not supported by good aspects like sextiles and trines or Quintiles....sometimes conjunctions.

It means the planet is "undermined" by the aspects they are attached to. Their energy is not "flowing" or "easily used in a positive way."

EVERY chart is different.

We don't all have the same limitations because we all have different Saturn placements.

If you post your chart or your birth information maybe someone will post your chart and we can see what you have to deal with specifically.

It's not easy to understand Saturn in "posts" on any forum. Whole BOOKS have been written just on Saturn alone! One of the best, "Saturn, A New Look at an Old Devil" by Liz Greene.

LIN
astro_w2gw_frank.70623.77940.png

This is the copy of my chart
 

ardentika

Well-known member
I don't even know what that means. And why isn't everyone else similarly restricted?

Evrryone is restricted in one way or another. But its not forever. Sometimes it is restricted untill certain lessons are learnt.

And I don't think Saturn rules with fear. That's how you perceive it, but your perception rarely is reality. I have Sun, Mercury, Neptune, Uranus in Capricorn plus Saturn on the Asc. Maybe im more comfortable with Saturn cos i dont have a choice lol. Rather than fighting against something its best to embrace it and work with it. And that's Saturn's job. It will crush your ego until you learn to cooperate and have respect. And that again is for your own good. Sometimes we don't see very well the future and we don't know ourselves that well. Saturn is like the strict parent that wheb you are 16 and you say "Mom I want a new laptop" Saturn will tell you "Well honey go get a job and save money to get it" to teach your work and responsibility. And your 16y old self will hate that. But when you are 30 and look back you will be grateful when now you have the skills yo deal with real life.
 

Lin

Well-known member
Frank, you asked about your MOM on another thread. Could you transfer the questions (if you still have any) to this thread, as your Moon is connected to so much energy in your chart at the NADIR, which is your "innermost personal identity."

I'd rather not have to go back and forth between sections. (time constraints).
LIN
 

clip11

Well-known member
Frank, you asked about your MOM on another thread. Could you transfer the questions (if you still have any) to this thread, as your Moon is connected to so much energy in your chart at the NADIR, which is your "innermost personal identity."

I'd rather not have to go back and forth between sections. (time constraints).
LIN

sure i just asked how is she represented in my chart especially with saturn aspecting my moon.
 

Lin

Well-known member
She is represented by the Moon near your 4th house cusp; this means she and everything she taught you both verbally and non verbally (her actions) are a big part of YOUR inner identity. As is your Father's. (Saturn on the 4th.)

Saturn represents not only the father or father figure, but all power figures, bosses and others who have the authority to tell you what to do (or not to do.) Like doctors, lawyers, teachers, bosses.

YOu carry that Saturn around with you and if fear was instilled in you as a child you are still carrying it. Most of this I mentioned above.

If you think about the dynamics of your family in your childhood and can ascertain which dynamics you are still living out NOW, even tho you are not a child, you will come to some conclusions and some truths.

LIN
 

clip11

Well-known member
She is represented by the Moon near your 4th house cusp; this means she and everything she taught you both verbally and non verbally (her actions) are a big part of YOUR inner identity. As is your Father's. (Saturn on the 4th.)

Saturn represents not only the father or father figure, but all power figures, bosses and others who have the authority to tell you what to do (or not to do.) Like doctors, lawyers, teachers, bosses.

YOu carry that Saturn around with you and if fear was instilled in you as a child you are still carrying it. Most of this I mentioned above.

If you think about the dynamics of your family in your childhood and can ascertain which dynamics you are still living out NOW, even tho you are not a child, you will come to some conclusions and some truths.

LIN

You know, it's hard to break because it's all subconscious. Any fear I have isn't conscious and it's like how do I change something that's subconscious? That's the million dollar question.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Kinda like a kid just getting started in the world of work... He complains, "They require experience, but they won't give me a job so I can get experience. How am I supposed to get experience?"

Pretty much the only way to learn to swim is to get wet. Sooner or later you have to go in over your head and hope it works out.
 

Lin

Well-known member
There's a great process called "Creative Visualization". There are many books which can help you " reprogram the way you think and feel. In a good way.

The book actually called "Creative Visualization" by Shaki Gawain is a great start. There is also a workbook you can buy (I think you can still but it) but you don't need the workbook if you use the book correctly as it is written. Which means, from page one on. And do the exercises recommended.

that's just my advice about this particular issue which, even tho subliminal, can be brought to the consciousness and worked with.

LIN
 

clip11

Well-known member
There's a great process called "Creative Visualization". There are many books which can help you " reprogram the way you think and feel. In a good way.

The book actually called "Creative Visualization" by Shaki Gawain is a great start. There is also a workbook you can buy (I think you can still but it) but you don't need the workbook if you use the book correctly as it is written. Which means, from page one on. And do the exercises recommended.

that's just my advice about this particular issue which, even tho subliminal, can be brought to the consciousness and worked with.

LIN

Thank you. When I get paid, I'm going to order that book.
 
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