what? if somebody dont know his/her time of birth???

[danish]

if somebody doesn't know his birth time, what zodaic sign should he follow? shoukd we follow arabic astrology, or should he study only focus his sun sign? I know it is most debated topic. yet I want to know ur expert opinions. hope you (experts) shade some light on it. regards.

[Zarathu]

Do you have an approximate time? Or are you totally clueless?

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by danish

if somebody doesn't know his birth time,
what zodaic sign should he follow?
shoukd we follow arabic astrology,
or should he study only focus his sun sign?
I know it is most debated topic.
yet I want to know ur expert opinions.
hope you (experts) shade some light on it. regards.

I'm no expert, however I have studied/researched this topic

Traditional astrologers do not 'follow zodiac signs'

There are a number of traditional methods useful for discerning the rectified Ascendant
such as
the ANIMODAR method of rectification
discussion entitled "Rectification by Trutine of Hermes/Animodar" at http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=822

Another thread gives numerous RECTIFICATION TIPS at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=51626

[JUPITERASC]

by the way
keep in mind
that you have posted your question on the Traditional Board
and so a timely reminder
Traditional Astrology Board
is for discussions on Traditional Astrology only.
Note:
Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700
by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renassiance eras.
Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction)
and
exludes modern planets Neptune, Uranus and Pluto
as well as non-Ptolemaic aspects and any asteroids.
The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretetation
and
more on prediction.
Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.

[JUPITERASC]

IF there is an approximate time of birth to work with

then
Traditional astrologers assess the potential 1st House

because

Main Rulerships of 1st House are:

Life, vitality and health.
Stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body.

Older sources note its influence upon the intellect,
the way the mind works
and
speech.

In general, the first house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression.

As well as describing the physical appearance
the condition of this house and that of its planetary ruler
indicates the level of personal vitality and strength. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html

[JUPITERASC]

Another ancient technique
is
the PRENATAL EPOCH aka TRUTINE OF HERMES

detailed instructions
on precisely how to calculate the pre-natal Epoch Rectification Method
may be viewed FOR FREE at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm

[starstudent33]

You really need to know the time of birth to get any kind of meaningful reading in astrology. I can figure out someone's ascendant by looking at their photograph. Then, if you can tell me some things about them, I can figure out the locations of their Sun and some other things in their chart, and keep narrowing it down until we've got a pretty exact birth time. Just as long as the day and place of birth that you have is accurate, and it wasn't a c-section.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by starstudent33

You really need to know the time of birth to get any kind of meaningful reading in astrology.
I can figure out someone's ascendant by looking at their photograph.
Then, if you can tell me some things about them,
I can figure out the locations of their Sun and some other things in their chart,
and keep narrowing it down until we've got a pretty exact birth time.
Just as long as the day and place of birth that you have is accurate,
and it wasn't a c-section.

Traditional astrologer Martin Gansten offers a CHART RECTIFICATION service using traditional methods

QUOTE

'....Birth time rectification

Where a birth time is known only approximately, within 1–2 hours either way,
it is possible to reverse the method of a natal reading and deduce the time of birth from the known events of life.

For this purpose
we need a list of 10 or more major events,
timed at least to the month (preferably the date) of occurrence.
The more drastic the event, the more useful it is likely to be in rectification work.
Examples of such events are:
- serious illnesses, accidents or surgery
- sudden financial gains or losses
- major increases or decreases in social standing
- deaths of loved ones
- etc....'


http://www.martingansten.com/btr.php


'....We also need one or more pictures of you,
preferably full-length.
You may be asked questions about your health, habits and interests.
Once the birth time has been rectified,
it is possible to order a full natal reading.

If your time of birth is not known even approximately,
or if you are mostly concerned with finding the answer to a particular question or problem,
you may consider asking a horary question instead......'

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Birth times are not as necessary in classical astrology as they first appear to be. They are definitely not as necessary as they are in modern psychological astrology where natal character reports are the main tool.

Classical astrology developed in a world where most individuals didn't have their birth time, and many didn't know what day they were born and others wouldn't even know their year. While there are rectification techniques, it becomes substantially more difficult the more variables you have and there really isn't a way of verifying that a rectification is correct unless you miraculously stumble upon documentation sometime later.

Luckily, people who lack birth times can still fully utilize horary and electional astrology.

[Zarathu]

It would be good if the OP were to return to the post so that astrologers might further answer their questions.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi

Birth times are not as necessary in classical astrology as they first appear to be. They are definitely not as necessary as they are in modern psychological astrology where natal character reports are the main tool.

Classical astrology developed in a world where most individuals didn't have their birth time, and many didn't know what day they were born and others wouldn't even know their year. While there are rectification techniques, it becomes substantially more difficult the more variables you have and there really isn't a way of verifying that a rectification is correct unless you miraculously stumble upon documentation sometime later.

Luckily, people who lack birth times can still fully utilize horary and electional astrology.

Agreed. Important to highlight that HORARY and ELECTIONAL astrology
are ways to utilise astrology, even without a verifiable known birthtime

[Larxene]

Hello danish,

Yeah, like the others, I also believe that chart rectification is the only way, but right now, I don't know about its accuracy.

Skyscript user jventura (real name: Joao Ventura) describes a statistical study on the Animodar, and concluded that it was a "kind of illusion". You can read about it here:http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewto...light=animodar

Another Skyscript user Atlantean (real name: James Alexander) is an astrologer who swears by the Topocentric house system when it comes to doing rectification, and he also offers rectification services. His website can be found here: http://www.jamesalexander.de/rectification.html

A thread where you can read about Atlantean's posts on rectification: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewto...light=animodar

Chris Brennan, an astrologer who is an expert in Hellenistic astrology, also provides chart rectification services. His approach seems to be more "Hellenistic" to me, in the sense that he will only help you find the correct rising sign (Ascendant). Of course, this approach requires the use of whole sign houses to interpret the rectified chart later, because using quadrant houses may introduce a high degree of errors.

His consultation page can be found here: http://www.chrisbrennanastrologer.co...rectification/


One of the main problems with rectified charts is that the Lots or Arabic Parts will not be able to be calculated accurately. This really limits the amount of information we can get, especially for those who follow Dorotheus' or Valens' works.



Regards,

Larxene Xenohart

[danish]

how long do u people believe that arabic method (abjad e qamri) is right in determing the zodaic sign?

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by danish

how long do u people believe that arabic method
(abjad e qamri)
is right in determing the zodaic sign?

method is used to calculate the numbers of a name in Hindu, Arabic/Urdu or Persian
this is the traditional astrology board
so

to discuss numerology
another area of the forum would be more appropriate

[waybread]

Obviously the best thing is to find a birth time through hospital records; the registrar of vital statistics (called different things in different places, but the nearest government office that collects birth records; Mom's or a relative's memory, or a baby book (of memorabilia.)

Sometimes you can make more progress if the moon changed signs on your birthday. It changes signs every 3 days. You will often feel much more like one sign or the other; or people who know you well can describe your emotional nature as they experience it. This would give you a narrower range of rising signs from which to choose.

Otherwise, just learn to read charts without houses. As indicated above, you can make some progress with traditional astrology so long as you've got planets-in-signs. I recommend using the free charts section at Astrodienst www.astro.com . Input the birth time as "unknown," and you will get a chart without houses and a default noon birth time. Just recognize that the moon could move 6 degrees in either direction.

Aspects in astrology are awfully important, and you don't need houses to read them.

If you can narrow down your rising sign but don't know it to the minute, I suggest using whole sign houses. The others suggest a degree of accuracy that you wouldn't have.

There are chart rectification methods, some of them very sophisticated, but for these an amateur might best consult an experienced professional astrologer.

[tikana]

i have rectified charts before .. one of them is Amy Winehouse i came within 2 mins or something along those lines within her birthtime before it was released.
it is somewhere on the board.

[danish]

thanx to all for kind and expert opinions. I've learnt a lot.