Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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david starling

Well-known member
SunConjunctUranus said:
Haha! Why are you asking this to the 12/12's "inventor"!!?? :lol:
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I'm still testing it. Took a quick look at 2 Charts today, of well-known Sun Aquarians, Ayn Rand and Dick Cheney. The first one appears to validate 12/12. The second one, Cheney's Chart, appears to invalidate it. Have to look deeper. A theory is only as good as its results.
H*ll, Cheney's Chart appears to invalidate astrology altogether, even apart from 12/12!
But, it's studying the ones that don't appear to work, and figuring out why, which is a good way to improve on a theory.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Cheney's is extremely complex in 12/12. The Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in H9, both Placidus and Whole-sign, might be the key. Also, 4 Sense of Purpose placements is highly unusual. And those indicated by the Moon in Pisces and Mars in Sagittarius are squared. Then, there's another, Jupiter in Taurus, with a catalytic Saturn conjunct. This guy is a veritable bundle of contradictions! :pinched:
 
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david starling

Well-known member
passiflora said:
Interested to hear your analysis of Cheney's chart!
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His cruel public political views, his major role in pushing for the disastrous Iraq War, as well as causing possibly crucial confusion on 9/11 by ordering an Air Force drill on the same day, his shooting a "friend" in the face on a hunting trip, then demanding an apology from the victim(!), the perpetual arch-villain sneer....does anybody see these as obvious traits in his Chart? :unsure:
 
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david starling

Well-known member
david starling said:
12/12 doesn't replace other methods of analyzing a Chart, it augments them.
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I'm going on the optimistic theory that, unimpeded or unblocked, the 12/12 placements showing Sense of Purpose, Sense of Direction, Facilitating Abilities, and Catalytic Effect, are all positives. Venus in Capricorn, for example, should be a loving Sense of Direction in 12/12, based on that assumption. Cheney's Natal-chart is loaded with positive 12/12 placements. Since it's been correlating so well in other Charts I've read, I have to consider this one an exception to the rule, and figure out why. It's possible, for example, that he suffered from child-abuse of some sort, and isn't the amazingly good man he could have been.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
dr. farr on
MODERN ASTROLOGY DIGNITIES AND DEBILITIES :smile:
at source: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67385
dr. farr said:
Yes Paul correctly understood my perspective:

no, I do NOT consider Neptune, Uranus or Pluto to be dispositors ("rulers") of any sign

-but yes I do consider them to be affinitive to certain signs and dissonant with other signs:

for me, if X planet is in, say, Aquarius, then I consider SATURN to be dispositor of that planet,

PLUS I consider Uranus to have a relationship to that planet as well
(because of the affinity of Uranus with Aquarius),
but NOT at the same level (the level of dispositorship) that Saturn has.
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
StillOne said:
Oh, I just figured since they didn't reflect light...

which I'm sure that Pluto does

but we just can't see it from here.
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The following quote has bolded comments
with reference to reflection of light :smile:

BobZemco said:
There are Sumerian texts from 7,000 years ago (circa 5,000 BCE) that talk about Planets ensnaring things in their "nets" and casting light and casting rays.

What does that mean? It means they were infinitely more intelligent than we are....this is the 21st Century, you have public education systems in nearly every State on Earth, and yet the vast majority of people don't even know that the formula for the Force of Gravity is...

F(g) = M1 * M2 / d^2

How would you explain Gravity to a child that is 4 years old?

"You know how you dip your net into the water to catch goldfish or tadpoles?"

"Yeah."

"Well, Gravity is just like your net, only you can't see Gravity."

It isn't until the late 1950s that our so-called "advanced civilization" figures out there really is a "net" and they call that "net" a "Gravity-well."

And so for science fiction shows for the next 20 years or so -- like the Original Star Trek -- you hear them saying things like: "Captain, we're going to get caught in the Planet's Gravity-well."

If you get stuck in Earth's Gravity-well, you need to be moving at a speed of 17,500 Miles Per Hour to escape the net...and no, I don't know what that is in Kilometers Per Hour (and don't care).

In the Arabic, Farsi, and Latin texts, you see the phrase "[Saturn]...hurling its rays at...."

That's real....it really happens....and that is science.

In reality, the Sun is the only celestial body that actually casts light;

the Moon and Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn reflect light...

....that's why we can see them.

Light is electromagnetic radiation.

In the middle of the electromagnetic radiation band are the colors....to the right of the blues, you have violet, then ultra-violet (UV), then X-Rays, then Gamma Rays.

To the left of the electromagnetic radiation spectrum, you have your yellows, oranges, reds and then infrared (IR), microwaves, radar, VHF/UHF, short wave radio, AM and FM radio bands.

Your eyes have evolved to allow you to see select frequencies in the electromagnetic radiation spectrum which are the colors.

An object absorbs frequencies of electromagnetic radiation, but reflects certain frequencies back at you, and that is what you are seeing....the reflected frequencies -- the color --- the specific wavelengths in the electromagnetic radiation band.

Asteroids do not reflect light,
therefore, logically, rationally, scientifically,
asteroids have no impact or affect on you.
Likewise, the Outer Planets -- Uranus, Neptune and Pluto do not reflect light,
and they have no affect on you individually
and there is no possible way using math or science to justify that they do.


In addition to reflecting light, the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn also hurl rays
(although the Sun really does cast Ultra-Violet Rays, X-Rays and Gamma Rays).

Space is not "empty."
Space is filled with particles -- electromagnetic radiation -- from the Sun.


As the Planets move through Space, their mass, their orbital velocity (speed)
and their exact chemical/elemental make-up
creates something called the magnetosphere.

The magnetosphere reflects (some but not all) electromagnetic radiation away from it.


The magnetosphere on each of the Planets is "tuned"
to attenuate certain frequencies in the electromagnetic radiation spectrum.
The Earth's magnetosphere does a great job of screening out Gamma rays,
a decent job of screening out X-Rays,
a mediocre job of screening out UV rays
and then a really bad job of screening out everything from the colors through microwave, radar and the radio bands.



But, then....we already knew that, didn't we?


If the Earth's magnetosphere filtered out electromagnet frequencies in the color band,
then we wouldn't see anything outside of Earth,
and if it screened out frequencies in the radio band,
we would not be able to communicate with our satellites and probes.

Anyway, the magnetospheres of the Planets reflect certain frequencies at certain rates to Earth....

...and that is scientific fact, not speculation.



Since the advent of radio in the early 20th Century,
it has been known that radio are affected by other forms of electromagnetic radiation.
The primary cause is ionized particles in the Earth's stratosphere and mesosphere.
The region in the stratosphere and mesosphere that is heavily ionized is known as the "ionosphere."

These ionized particles severely degrade the performance of microwave, radar, VHF, UHF, Short Wave and AM radio signals,
and diminish the performance of FM radio signals.

This degrading of performance caused a lot of angst in the US Army, Air Force and Navy,
and also with companies involved in radio communications, like Motorola.

It was noted that certain alignments of Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn
could either neutralize the effects of the ionosphere, or amplify the effects.
Scientific studies, published in peer-reviewed scientific and engineering journals
showed that Planets in sextile marginally improve radio performance;
in trine they strongly improve performance;
in square they strongly hamper performance,
and in opposition they severely impede performance;
and that Planets in conjunction could harm or help.


What is the Doctrine of Aspects in Traditional Astrology?

Sextiles indicate weak friendship
Trines show strong friendship
Squares show enmity
Oppositions conflict
Conjunctions can be helpful or harmful

Well, there you go....scientific proof that people knew more about the world around them 7,000 years ago than they do now.


Anyway, asteroids do not have sufficient mass and/or speed to generate magnetopheres,
which is the other reason we ignore them,
and while Uranus and Pluto generate magnetospheres
(no verification yet on whether Pluto does),
they are nothing like the size of magnetospheres of Jupiter and Saturn,
and their vast distance from Earth precludes the possibility that the Outer Planets can affect individuals...

...F(g) = M1 * M2 / d^2

Good luck with that.

.....So, there you go.
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
Apparently, if you can't see it with your own eyes, unaided by lenses

(including microorganisms), it just ain't there at all! :lol:
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Siriusly your jokes are so funny :smile:


Kaiousei no Senshi said:
To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets. It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them, but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars, so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.

Dirius is correct in noting that the fact the outers carry no visible light is a major detriment to their inclusion into the classical framework. Astrology evolved alongside ancient optical theories and these theories still permeate astrological discourse to this day. Planets in aspect are said to "see" or "regard" one another and their light is often considered a transmitter of their influence.

The word "planet" originally evolved from the Greek "planetes aster", or "wandering star" and referred to the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn whose motion could be detected against the backdrop of fixed stars that are stable in their relative distance from one another, but all move together as one large group. Today we have redefined what a planet is to serve our own categorical needs. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's important to remember that we, as astrologers, have organizational needs that are different from those of astronomy.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them. Mostly they either 1) don't make sense within their own context or 2) are already taken by another planet.

About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.

About the second, each of the outer planets have significations that are more or less plucked from the classical planets. Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars. Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition.
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david starling

Well-known member
Ouranos:)uranus:) banished "monsters" and was brutally and monstrously overthrown by one of his children, a son, who approved of monsters.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=987604#post987604

morgthm said:
Simply, it's best to trust those who cause least harm, teach complex knowledge and wish to allow for the increasing complexity of understanding for all people on the planet. Forms of Buddhism that use too much manipulation, be it physical affecting or psychologically negatively affecting of emotions seem not to be trustworthy as their goals will be insular.
Those who practice on their own can be easily contained within enough complexity, good intentions and will likely always be resistant of force of any kind as is always said and is clearly obvious that a unification of ideas and practices can be found through the honest quest towards peace. It's best not to waste time collaborating with those who hold too firmly to positions of national interest or only try to support one style or method for self complexity.
Those who are likely to use force even will likely find sanctuary within people similar to themselves.
All knowledge can be imparted with enough emphasis through language, some tentative displays, but never positively through force
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*

SOME DAYS THE MOON IS IN SAME SIGN BOTH TROPICALLY AND SIDEREALLY
but not always
a brief explanation via visual video with voice over
of the Tropical and Sidereal measurement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI&feature=related



The Indian Government has chosen the Lahiri Ayanamsha as the official Ayanamsha.
This is the Ayanamsha most sidereal Jyotishis follow, chosen in the early to mid 20th Century.
This is not an ancient decree from the hoary sages of old as most seem to think
but a political decision
made to make sure business and government employees take their holidays on the same day!
Before this decree, there was no standard Ayanamsha.
You could move from state to state in India, and the Ayanamsha would change by geography.
The Lahiri Ayanamsha is actually the Chitra-pakshiya Ayanamsha invented by the Ketkar brothers.
In 1954-55 it was stated that this Ayanamsha was:
based on no authoritative source
was adopted to avoid public opposition
that the proper Ayanamsha should indicate a precession of 20 degrees
instead of 23 as is currently accepted Ryan Kurczak


Here are exact quotes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayanamsa.


“Actually the current orthodox panchangas (the Chaitra Panchangas) or Panjikas
show April 13 or April 14 as the beginning of the sidereal Nirayana year.
Due to the accumulated error of about 3 ½ degrees in the motion of the Sun,
i.e. 3 ½ days in the calendar date; but if we are to correct the position
the Nirayana sidereal year should begin on April 10 or 11
i.e. a concession of 20 degrees should be given instead of 23 degrees.” S. K. Kar 1954
“The Calendar Reform Committee proposed the adoption of 23d 15m 0s as Ayanamsa
in order to avoid opposition from the public.
The Chaitra school too has come into being in order to avoid public opposition.
Neither of these, however, is in conformity with the truth.” S. K. Kar –1955 :smile:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
dhundhun said:
Those Astrologers, who observe carefully, for them PLANETS, STARS, ... are not limits.

Quite often, I find some important points in people's chart. Someone responding to a point, in a deterministic way. For example responded to Saturn, to Sun, to Jupiter. It is better to mark that point, irrespective any thing is there or not (planets, asteroids, stars, mid-points, Arabic points). That imaginary stuff is needed for prediction of that individual.

We don't consider so many things in astrology
- for one example, nodes of moon are used (North Node, South Node).

But we don't put Nodes of Mercury or Venus in Chart.
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That's not quite accurate because the Jeffrey Wolf Green School of Astrology http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
DOES use the Nodes of Venus for natal delineation :smile:
 
Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Well-known member
David I feel like I wanna post my chart for your 12/12 analysis.

As long as it's not quoted.

I think my charts quite interesting but not the best.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
For me, the Ecliptic is what counts.
So, the closer to the Ecliptic the stronger the influence.
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petosiris said:
Give an astrologer some tables he doesn't understand
and see what new techniques he can come up with. :lol:
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david starling said:
Some tables aren't worth understanding,

unless you resonate with them.
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petosiris said:
Uhm, how do you resonate with astronomy if you do not understand it. :unsure:
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david starling said:
Can you describe the misunderstood tables you mentioned? :unsure:
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that is likely to result in misunderstandings :smile:
petosiris said:
hAhaA, misunderstood tables, get it?
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somehow not resonating :smile:
petosiris said:
SC, Morinus did not care about the constellation's name, he simply used the name ''Taurus''
for the 30 degrees that follow the 30 degrees after the vernal equinox.
He might as well have called it Bob,
.
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nevertheless
although he might as well have called it Bob
or even Gael

instead he called it Taurus
petosiris said:
what is important is that he followed astronomical principles based on the tropics
(at least in the Northern Hemisphere),
because the preceding vernal equinox
is the reason it is house of Venus and exaltation of the Moon for example.
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somehow that does not chime well with Bob
the chance name of Taurus seems more apposite :smile:
petosiris said:
Indeed, since it's a remnant from the old times, just as

the poorly constructed Julian-Gregorian calendar is for example,

though here at least the astronomy is untouched.
It simply is not worth changing according to reactionaries.
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Sirius and the Western Calendar :smile:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4573
Monk said:
Hi Everyone,
I'm new here, and research the mysteries of life, and feel that there may be elaborate electional astrology attached to the Gregorian Calendar, that involves complex opening and closing ceremonies involving the fixed star Sirius, the Sun and an angle of the earth.

We know that the priests of Egypt started the great Egyptian Calendar approx. 5,000 years ago when the Sun rose on the Asc., and Sirius was in Paran to the Asc.
Sosigenes incorperated the Knowledge of the Egyptians into the Julian Calendar when Julius Caesar wanted a better calendar for the Roman Empire.
Sosigenes was a brilliant mathematician, and a student at the great library of Alexandria, that held all the scrolls of human civilization from the dawn of history, unfortunately this was burned down in the first few centuries A.D.

There are many fragmented reasons historians give as to why Sosigenes chose 1st Jan 0045 BC to start this calendar, many astrologers have wondered about the significance of 1st Jan., astrology apparently doesnt show any reasons to choose this day, other than the date of political changing of Roman Consuls ....why not the Equinox's to show the beginning and ending of a year?

My research into this area has led me to believe that Sosigenes wanted to close the Egyptian Calendar at Sunset on 31st Dec. 0046 BC at Thebes, the ancient capital of Egypt, before starting the Julian Calendar on 1st Jan. 0046 BC.

As i have said, the Egyptian Calendar was started on the Asc. Angle when Sirius rose in Paran with the Sun, the closing ceremony needed the Sun on the Desc. angle with Sirius rising in paran with the Asc.
Thebes was at 25*N40' , 32*E35', but modern Luxor is 25*N41', 32*E39' which is only a few minutes out, so we can use Luxor.
I have Brady's starlight astrology programme that charts star parans, so if we set up a chart for Luxor/Thebes for Sunset on 31st Dec. 0046 B.C., we get a time of 17:19pm., Sun will be 08*09' Capricorn, Desc. will be 08*08' Capricorn.....Sirius is rising by paran on Asc. orb 00 mins. 36 Secs.
Now to get Sirius rising while the Sun is setting is purely worked out by latitude, but before time zones if Sirius was in paran with the M.C. which is longitude it would show up everywhere in the western hemisphere conjunct an angle at the same time, bear that in mind when i go further in explaining the strange connection with Sirius with our evolving calendar later in this thread.
I see that attachments are available, so i will try to put the chart and Brady's Parans from "Starlight" directly on this, for 31st Dec. 0046 B.C. at Sunset at Thebes....I'll be back soon with research on Julian and Gregorian Calendars.
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david starling said:
For Longitudinal conjunction, that's irrelevant. :biggrin:
Both tropical and sidereal use the same lines of Celestial Longitude.
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david starling said:
You're thinking Sign-degrees.

This is simply Longitudinal coincidence.
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another spooky co-incidence
similar to Bob aka Taurus

david starling said:
I'm still wondering why ptolemy says they're on opposite sides of the Ecliptic.
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consult missing volume p1001 of 12/12 for answers

SunConjunctUranus said:
Don't forget to put precession-corrected, homie. :smile:
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an apt reminder
david starling said:
No need. A conjunction is a conjunction, both for tropical and sidereal. However, Declination-corrected is in order.
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petosiris reminds us however that :smile:
and I quote
petosiris said:
If one has south latitude, and the other north,

it is not technically a conjunction,

though it is copresence.
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SunConjunctUranus said:
See, ds? :smile:
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