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  #1  
Unread 05-06-2015, 04:51 PM
spikeanderson79 spikeanderson79 is offline
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Too many air signs in natal

Would having too many air signs make someone a deep thinker or would it make it difficult to process thoughts?

What can you say about the sun square mars? are there other aggressive aspects in this chart?

Sun Cancer

Moon Libra
Mercury Gemini
Mars Libra
Venus Gemini

thank you
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  #2  
Unread 05-06-2015, 05:54 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

I don't think you can have 'too many' air signs. Temperament is a bit more complicated to work out than that.

In your chart, I'd be concerned about the Mars/Saturn/Moon conjunction in Libra. Saturn's going to win because it's exalted there, and Mars is in detriment. Not a nice combination.

It could especially portend health problems as it's in the 6th house, and also possible difficulties in marriage because Mars rules 7, and that square from the Sun isn't helping - the Sun falls in Libra. Which could mean family difficulties or difficulties with your father as Sun rules 4.

All of this is NOT active all the time, though. It would take time lords to set off any of these areas - they're the ones likely to trip you up when they are active.

Merc in Gemini trine Moon and Saturn in Libra generally indicates that your mind is in pretty decent shape overall.
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  #3  
Unread 05-06-2015, 07:11 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Interested regarding your views on this chart Oddity
~ previously posted on another thread on the forum
has four planets in Air, Saturn exalted
it's another interesting example of an Assembly of planets in Air

However in this case Mars is in separating trine with Libra Sun
and Libra Sun receives Mars

Moon squares Sun
Sun rules 12th - trouble with "hidden enemies/friends?"



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Unread 05-06-2015, 10:48 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

I'd be a little concerned there. It could even indicate physical harm. Merc is combust, ruling 1, Sun receives Mars, Mars rejects (for lack of a better term) Sun.

If there's a malefic involved, you want the malefic to receive the other planet to give it some breathing room, you don't want the other planet to receive the malefic - because then the malefic can have its way.
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  #5  
Unread 05-07-2015, 12:44 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

I'd be a little concerned there. It could even indicate physical harm.
Merc is combust, ruling 1, Sun receives Mars, Mars rejects (for lack of a better term) Sun.

If there's a malefic involved, you want the malefic to receive the other planet to give it some breathing room,
you don't want the other planet to receive the malefic - because then the malefic can have its way.
This may be a case when Sun itself may be malefic
- because in Fall, not of the sect in favor, in assembly with Saturn and in aspect with Mars
in fact Libra Sun is chasing/pursuing Mars, getting to within 2orb of Leo Mars
then Mars changes signs to ascendant sign Virgo before the aspect can perfect
and escapes from Sun

Ascendant Ruler Mercury receives Libra Sun by Triplicity
but Sun and Mercury are parting company, Sun is continuing direct
while Mercury is retreating/running away from (retrograding) from Sun
Mercury does not receive Mars
Both Sun and Mercury are in Mars Exile/detriment

Mercury rules career as well as ascendant
i.e. Mercury rules MC and 10th
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Unread 05-09-2015, 02:18 AM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
This may be a case when Sun itself may be malefic
- because in Fall, not of the sect in favor, in assembly with Saturn and in aspect with Mars
Slow down a moment. The Sun, like Jupiter and Venus, is a benefic planet. He gets a "bad rap" as an accidental malefic due to the process/idea of combustion. Too often classical ideas can lead us to forget this very important point. In assembly with Saturn, who receives him by exaltation, and you left out having Jupiter there as well as Mercury, all of the diurnal planets in a masculine sign below the horizon in a night chart. If you are looking for an accidental malefic, I'd be more inclined (though really, not entirely) to look at Venus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
in fact Libra Sun is chasing/pursuing Mars, getting to within 2orb of Leo Mars
then Mars changes signs to ascendant sign Virgo before the aspect can perfect
and escapes from Sun
Yes, but no. Escape is more readily apparent in horary, in that a thing that is persued literally "escapes" into another sign, and I suppose that using primary directions and secondary progressions an aspect that does perfect could indicate a "completion" or (ZR) releasing of a natal promise, but in this case we have Sun pretty well struck by Mars' ray within three degrees.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
If there's a malefic involved, you want the malefic to receive the other planet to give it some breathing room, you don't want the other planet to receive the malefic - because then the malefic can have its way.
I'd take this a step further--Sun receives Mars from Mar's detriment. Not only does Sun have to allow Mars to fulfill his mission, but Mars actively has it in for the Sun. Sahl calls this "not reception" but most of us call that spade by it's name...rejection.
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Unread 05-09-2015, 02:26 AM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

I have to agree with that. And Sahl did write about how you don't want a planet aspecting a planet that is in planet the first's detriment or fall.
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Unread 05-09-2015, 03:13 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

Slow down a moment.
applies brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

The Sun, like Jupiter and Venus, is a benefic planet.
He gets a "bad rap" as an accidental malefic due to the process/idea of combustion.
Too often classical ideas can lead us to forget this very important point.
The most commonly accepted orb for a Sun - Saturn aspect is 12
Saturn is therefore within traditional orb of being combust by Sun

HOWEVER
Hellenistic astrologers would argue that Saturn in Exaltation is "in his own chariot"
and protected from combustion as a consequence (Serapion of Alexandria)


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

...In assembly with Saturn, who receives him by exaltation,
Good that malefic Saturn receives Sun
but Saturn is in Sun's Fall

and
one wonders to what extent 'medievalists' may or may not concur

that an exalted Saturn
ensconced in a shady limo
offering Sun a ride
necessarily denotes "good " circumstances for the Sun


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

and you left out having Jupiter there
Jupiter is combust
precisely on Saturn's Exaltation degree
in Venus terms (Egyptian)
and own face/decanate


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

as well as Mercury

Mercury not in own exaltation so not "in own chariot"
Mercury in own Triplicity
combust, retrograde
retreating from Sun
and in Venus Terms (Egyptian)
Jupiter's face
Saturn's Exaltation

Mercury is combust

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

all of the diurnal planets in a masculine sign below the horizon in a night chart.
and all of the diurnal planets in a masculine sign below the horizon in a night chart
and all combust
including Jupiter
with the exception of possibly Saturn travelling in shaded limo
(according to Serapion of Alexandria)


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

If you are looking for an accidental malefic, I'd be more inclined (though really, not entirely)
to look at Venus.
Venus is in a malefic place
on a pivot - the 4th place
on a lot - PoF
in mutual reception by domicile with combust Jupiter
and in terms, triplicity of Jupiter
receives Saturn
in aversion/disjunct from Moon but in Moon's face

"When one of the five stars is on a pivot,
even if it does not bear witness to the Moon, it is effectual" (Serapion of Alexandria)

Venus is not only dominating but is also effectual


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

Yes, but no.
Escape is more readily apparent in horary, in that a thing that is persued literally "escapes" into another sign,
and I suppose that using primary directions and secondary progressions an aspect that does perfect
could indicate a "completion" or (ZR) releasing of a natal promise,
but in this case we have Sun pretty well struck by Mars' ray within three degrees.

I'd take this a step further--Sun receives Mars from Mar's detriment.
Not only does Sun have to allow Mars to fulfill his mission,
but Mars actively has it in for the Sun.
Sahl calls this "not reception" but most of us call that spade by it's name...rejection.

Mars mission is connected to
being exalted ruler of 12th located in 12th
domicile ruler of 3rd and 8th
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Unread 05-09-2015, 03:15 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

I have to agree with that.
And Sahl did write about how you don't want a planet aspecting a planet that is in planet the first's detriment or fall.

Planets in Assembly are travelling together for a common purpose
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Unread 05-10-2015, 01:37 AM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeanderson79 View Post
Would having too many air signs make someone a deep thinker or would it make it difficult to process thoughts?

What can you say about the sun square mars? are there other aggressive aspects in this chart?

Sun Cancer

Moon Libra
Mercury Gemini
Mars Libra
Venus Gemini

thank you
You are indeed predominantly air but that makes you more analytical, intellectual and I would say have a real thirst for facts and figures and gathering data. In Libra you are seeking balance, equality and fairness. I imagine you really like to converse and debate and Mars in Libra can be verbally quite assertive but not so much physically. Standing up for basic fairness and justice is one positive channel. Most of your personal planets are in compatible elements and I would say you prefer to be peaceable, co-operative and want to avoid conflict.

Whether you feel there is too much air element??? you have to remember you chose the time of birth. Deep thinking would come with Mercury connected to Pluto and/or Saturn.
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Unread 05-19-2015, 10:23 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Mars trine Sun is generally favorable, but that assumes the Signs are favorable, too. A sextile is a weak trine in the same way a square is a weak opposition. Sun sextile Mars would normally indicate some kind of leadership position.

What I'm seeing is a Libra Sun in an applying sextile to Leo Mars. Given Sun's movement rate of about 1 per day, Sun will perfect the aspect before either Sun or Mars leaves its current sign.

Libra is a Human Violent Sign, and Mars wants no part of Libra, yet Sun is giving Mars permission to act. Mars also rules the 8th Place Aries.

My thought would be financial loss along those lines (2nd, 8th and 12th).

Here's where you'd want to do directions/profections.

I'd direct Ascendant to Mars, to Sun, Sun to the body of Mars, Mars to the body of Sun.

Since Mars is in partile aspect to Fortuna, directing Mars to the square of Fortuna.

In profections, look to those times when Mars/Sun/Fortuna are activated.
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  #12  
Unread 05-20-2015, 06:45 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by cspencer View Post

Mars trine Sun is generally favorable, but that assumes the Signs are favorable, too. A sextile is a weak trine in the same way a square is a weak opposition. Sun sextile Mars would normally indicate some kind of leadership position.

What I'm seeing is a Libra Sun in an applying sextile to Leo Mars. Given Sun's movement rate of about 1 per day, Sun will perfect the aspect before either Sun or Mars leaves its current sign.

Libra is a Human Violent Sign, and Mars wants no part of Libra, yet Sun is giving Mars permission to act. Mars also rules the 8th Place Aries.

My thought would be financial loss along those lines (2nd, 8th and 12th).

Here's where you'd want to do directions/profections.

I'd direct Ascendant to Mars, to Sun, Sun to the body of Mars, Mars to the body of Sun.

Since Mars is in partile aspect to Fortuna, directing Mars to the square of Fortuna.

In profections, look to those times when Mars/Sun/Fortuna are activated.

Mars and the Sun are interesting
Leo Mars at this degree is conjunct REGULUS leader of the Four Royal Stars of the ancient Persian monarchy, the Four Guardians of Heaven.


If Rising: Great honor and wealth, but violence and trouble, sickness, fevers, acute disease, benefits seldom last, favor of the great, victory over enemies and scandal.
The 145th Consideration of Guido Bonnets is as follows: -" That thou see in Diurnal Nativities whether Cor Leonis be in the Ascendant, that is to say, in the Oriental Line or above it one degree or below it three degrees; or whether it be in the tenth in like degrees, without the Conjunction or Aspect of any of the Fortunes, for this alone signifies that the Native shall be a person of great note and power, too much exalted, and attain to high preferment and honors, although descended from the meanest parents. And, if any of the Fortunes behold that place also, his glory shall be the more increased; but, if the Nativity be nocturnal, his fortune will be somewhat meaner, but not much; but if the Infortunes cast their aspects there it will still be more mean; but if the Fortunes behold it also they will augment the good promised a fourth part, and mitigate the evil as much; yet still, whatever of all this happens, it signifies that the Native shall die an unhappy death; or at least that all his honors, greatness and power shall at last suffer an eclipse and set in a cloud". [Robson*, p.195.]
http://constellationsofwords.com/Fixedstars.htm




Sun is in Fall in Libra,
however
at the particular degree in question Sun is conjunct ARCTURUS

ARCTURUS with Sun: Success through slow and patient plodding, friends among clergy, favorable for gain and for dealing with the public and lawyers. [Robson*, p.139.]

and
given Sun's 3 degree orb
combined with
Spica's two degree orb

Sun is also conjunct SPICA

SPICA with Sun: Great and lasting preferment, eminent dignity, immense wealth, great happiness to native's parents and children, help from friends among clergy, favorable for public and legal affairs. If culminating, Church and State preferment. If with Venus and Mars also the native is a potent king obeyed by many people, but subject to many infirmities. [Robson*, p.211.]

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Unread 05-21-2015, 02:46 AM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Mars and the Sun are interesting
Leo Mars at this degree is conjunct REGULUS leader of the Four Royal Stars of the ancient Persian monarchy, the Four Guardians of Heaven.


If Rising: Great honor and wealth, but violence and trouble, sickness, fevers, acute disease, benefits seldom last, favor of the great, victory over enemies and scandal.
The 145th Consideration of Guido Bonnets is as follows: -" That thou see in Diurnal Nativities whether Cor Leonis be in the Ascendant, that is to say, in the Oriental Line or above it one degree or below it three degrees; or whether it be in the tenth in like degrees, without the Conjunction or Aspect of any of the Fortunes, for this alone signifies that the Native shall be a person of great note and power, too much exalted, and attain to high preferment and honors, although descended from the meanest parents. And, if any of the Fortunes behold that place also, his glory shall be the more increased; but, if the Nativity be nocturnal, his fortune will be somewhat meaner, but not much; but if the Infortunes cast their aspects there it will still be more mean; but if the Fortunes behold it also they will augment the good promised a fourth part, and mitigate the evil as much; yet still, whatever of all this happens, it signifies that the Native shall die an unhappy death; or at least that all his honors, greatness and power shall at last suffer an eclipse and set in a cloud". [Robson*, p.195.]
http://constellationsofwords.com/Fixedstars.htm




Sun is in Fall in Libra,
however
at the particular degree in question Sun is conjunct ARCTURUS

ARCTURUS with Sun: Success through slow and patient plodding, friends among clergy, favorable for gain and for dealing with the public and lawyers. [Robson*, p.139.]

and
given Sun's 3 degree orb
combined with
Spica's two degree orb

Sun is also conjunct SPICA

SPICA with Sun: Great and lasting preferment, eminent dignity, immense wealth, great happiness to native's parents and children, help from friends among clergy, favorable for public and legal affairs. If culminating, Church and State preferment. If with Venus and Mars also the native is a potent king obeyed by many people, but subject to many infirmities. [Robson*, p.211.]



My understanding is that Spica grants safe haven (I'm not a fixed star wizard).

My view on exaltation and fall, and Libra is Sun's fall is that these are fleeting and not permanent events/actions/situations/scenarios. You're in a state of exaltation (or fall) only for a "brief" period, until the Star reaches the exaltation/fall point in the sign.

Yes, exaltation can persist for an entire life-time, and there are charts where that does, but my thinking is outside of that, it's only a temporary condition. People fall -- from grace -- only once in their lives usually, and likewise are exalted only once. I would like to do more research on it myself.

I think it is important to consider carefully Stars that are situated in the "burnt path."

Like I said, my understanding is that in all charts, Spica grants safe harbor in the burnt path.

Note that the 12th Place indicates certain institutions. You might want to consider the possibility career-wise, that this person may be elevated to the head of a hospital, or prison or other such institution.
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Unread 05-21-2015, 02:28 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by cspencer View Post

My understanding is that Spica grants safe haven (I'm not a fixed star wizard).
Dr farr is our fixed star wizard,
but a recent health problem means he no longer posts
I can however search his posts for any info he may have posted on SPICA

meanwhile I'm speculating
that a safe-haven granted by Spica
could be a financial safe-haven (2nd house location of Sun)
somehow connected with Venus (domicile ruler) Saturn (exaltation ruler)
Venus is located in 4th and in applying sextile to Assembled planets in 2nd
Venus in mutual reception with Jupiter
Jupiter located on Saturn's exaltation degree
Venus is of the sect in favor
but
below the horizon in a night chart
in a masculine sign
in a masculine quadrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by cspencer View Post

My view on exaltation and fall, and Libra is Sun's fall is that these are fleeting and not permanent events/actions/situations/scenarios. You're in a state of exaltation (or fall) only for a "brief" period, until the Star reaches the exaltation/fall point in the sign.

Yes, exaltation can persist for an entire life-time, and there are charts where that does, but my thinking is outside of that, it's only a temporary condition. People fall -- from grace -- only once in their lives usually, and likewise are exalted only once. I would like to do more research on it myself.

I think it is important to consider carefully Stars that are situated in the "burnt path."

Like I said, my understanding is that in all charts, Spica grants safe harbor in the burnt path.

Note that the 12th Place indicates certain institutions. You might want to consider the possibility career-wise, that this person may be elevated to the head of a hospital, or prison or other such institution.
12th also "...represents places that are denied access to public view, particularly those concerned with seclusion or isolation,
or where one is restricted from living a carefree life-style, such as institutions or prisons.
Many sources attribute monasteries to the 12th house as places of isolation,
but otherwise monks and nuns belong to the 9th house which represents religious concerns..."
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html

and so
not necessarily elevated to head of a prison or hospital
but perhaps elevated to head of a monastery
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Unread 05-22-2015, 12:17 AM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeanderson79 View Post
Would having too many air signs make someone a deep thinker or would it make it difficult to process thoughts?
No and no. There's no such thing as 'too much' of a particular sign factor. It is the chart your soul chose in this lifetime. It serves its purpose. Don't second-guess it. Learn it and know thyself.

You do have Mercury contra-parallel Uranus, which may contribute to what you call deep thinking. It certainly can mean faster and/or unusual mental processing. In addition, Mercury sesquisquare Jupiter almost exactly contributes to mental processing in an expansive way. Then the major aspects of Mercury trine Mars, and Mercury nearly exactly trine Saturn, show that you probably have an active and deep-reaching mind. The trine listed on your astro.com chart aspectarian between Mercury and Pluto - isn't. Its out of orb.

Quote:
What can you say about the sun square mars?
Sun square Mars is an aspect of assertion and dynamic energy, initiative, a proactive posture.

Quote:
are there other aggressive aspects in this chart?
Looking at Mars, only its square to Nodes suggests an impatient forward-urgency, but I would not add it to 'aggressive' aspects. However, added to Sun's parallel to N.Node, some might consider this a factor adding to aggressiveness, not so much in relation to others, but in one's attitude towards moving forward with your own life. Personally, I would still not see it as 'aggressive.'
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Unread 05-22-2015, 06:32 PM
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Re: Too many air signs in natal

Even if there are many planets in air signs
those planets may be in aspect with a planet/planets in earth, water or fire signs
the angles may be in earth, water or fire signs
a planet in an earth, water or fire sign may conjunct an angle
and so on
also
consider Saturn's influence as exalted ruler of airy Libra
as well as Saturn's influence as domicile ruler of Aquarius
and so
there are multiple layers to explore
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