Will I run into him soon?
- Thread starter mizzlizz
- Start date
The_Saturnian
Well-known member
Hello mizzlizz,
There is a general rule that if a horary question is posed, and at the time of asking the question the ascendant rises at 0,1 or 2 and 27,28 or 29 degrees the stars are indicating telling the querant (you) to ask the question at another time. Thus rendering the querant's enquiry invalid. Nonetheless I shall endeavour to provide an interpretation.
Ascendant/Querant (you) = Saturn (traditional ruler of Aquarius)
Querant's (your emotions) co-significator = The Moon
Descendant/Quesited (he) = Sun (ruled by Leo)
The question = Mercury
Saturn (you) are moving away due to some extraneous causes, and furthermore it squares the Sun (him). This is indicative of some sort of obstruction/obstacles in the meeting up. The Sun conjuncts the descendant, almost to its own sign (Leo) shows some form of pomposity on his part. Did he make a promise to you of meeting up again? Your emotions (Moon in 12th) make you suffer from negative escapism, and there is a lack of confidence (Moon in Capricorn).
In conclusion I don't see him returning.
Best of luck.
There is a general rule that if a horary question is posed, and at the time of asking the question the ascendant rises at 0,1 or 2 and 27,28 or 29 degrees the stars are indicating telling the querant (you) to ask the question at another time. Thus rendering the querant's enquiry invalid. Nonetheless I shall endeavour to provide an interpretation.
Ascendant/Querant (you) = Saturn (traditional ruler of Aquarius)
Querant's (your emotions) co-significator = The Moon
Descendant/Quesited (he) = Sun (ruled by Leo)
The question = Mercury
Saturn (you) are moving away due to some extraneous causes, and furthermore it squares the Sun (him). This is indicative of some sort of obstruction/obstacles in the meeting up. The Sun conjuncts the descendant, almost to its own sign (Leo) shows some form of pomposity on his part. Did he make a promise to you of meeting up again? Your emotions (Moon in 12th) make you suffer from negative escapism, and there is a lack of confidence (Moon in Capricorn).
In conclusion I don't see him returning.
Best of luck.
mizzlizz
Well-known member
Thank you Saturnian for your response. No promise was made in meeting up. If my enquiry is invalid, at what time should I pose the question from now? Also, if it's invalid, does your explanation even apply?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
IleneK
Premium Member
I believe we might say that an early or late aspecting point degree is a consideration more than making the question or the chart invalid.
As Saturn is the slower of the to primary significators, Sun moves towards/applies to a square to Saturn as Sun moves from Cancer into Leo. With Sun having been in Cancer, there may have been a reluctance on your part about him, since Sun has been in the sign of Saturn's detriment and will remain so as Sun moves into the other sign of Saturn's detriment, Leo.
From the viewpoint of Moon as your co-significator, you do not seem strong in this matter, with Moon in the sign of its debility in the unfortunate 12th and applying to an opposition with the Sun.
On his end, Sun moving to Leo, as well as into his/7th house, suggests that he/Sun may be pretty focused on himself. So, since the significators apply to a square, I think that the two of you might meet up again. But as it is a square and because of the negative reception between Sun and Saturn, I do not think the results of a meeting would be favorable.
This is completely wrong. It's simply a consideration, a late asc means that the querent knows the answer and is asking out of desperation. An early asc means the situation is in flux and the question has been asked too early.
The only case in which the chart becomes invalid is when there is no relationship between the planetary hour and the asc.
mizzlizz
Well-known member
On point with the fact I'm not strong in the matter and reluctant. I hear he is quite focused on his work right now meaning he doesn't have time for anything else. The meeting would not be favorable meaning what specifically?
mizzlizz
Well-known member
Thanks unteruber... is the asc late or early in this case? Still trying to learn/interpret 
The_Saturnian
Well-known member
Thank you Saturnian for your response. No promise was made in meeting up. If my enquiry is invalid, at what time should I pose the question from now? Also, if it's invalid, does your explanation even apply?
Thanks in advance!
I'm still new to this so I was just trying to give an interpretation. Apologies for any incorrect reading I may have given. It seems my study material has taught me wrong. I guess my reading is wrong. Sorry about that.
Thank you for the clarification. What constitutes an early ascendant? As in how early? Why does it make a difference if the question is asked too early? In what sense is a chart invalidated on the merits of there being no relationship between the planetary hour and the ascendant?
Thank you for your corrected explanation.
IleneK
Premium Member
Since there is an aspect between your significators, it suggests that you may likely meet. But though you may meet, the aspect being a square suggests that it somehow does not go well. There could be many reasons why the meeting or the results of the meeting do not go well.
0-3 degrees is early (this case). 27+degree is late. The is not readable (radical) if there is no relationship between planetary hour and asc, chuck it away.
Cheers.
mizzlizz
Well-known member
Hi unteruber - in this case you say the ascendant is early meaning the situation is in flux and it's too soon to pose the question as you stated. At what point should I ask the question then? If the question is asked too early, how come others are saying there is likely to be a meeting?
IleneK
Premium Member
Thank you bringing up this point.
I just learned recently of this necessity and regret that I forgot to apply it here. I've determined that the hour is ruled by Jupiter and the asc is, of course, ruled by Saturn. I'm not sure I ever determined exactly how the planetary ruler and the ruler of the asc need to relate to each other.
If you know how to evaluate it, I wonder if you might take a look and let us know what you think about the chart being radical?
chart is not radical since there is no relationship between the planetary hour (jupiter) and asc (saturn).
on planetary hour -
The Question shall be taken for radical, or fit to be judged, when the Lord of the hour... and the Lord of the Ascendant are of one Triplicity, or be one, or of the same nature.
William Lilly,
Christian Astrology
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/planetaryhoursrenaissance.html
The Question shall be taken for radical, or fit to be judged, when the Lord of the hour... and the Lord of the Ascendant are of one Triplicity, or be one, or of the same nature.
William Lilly,
Christian Astrology
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/planetaryhoursrenaissance.html
IleneK
Premium Member
Thank you.
And strictly for my edification, would you mind commenting on what Warnock goes on to say about lack of radicality as per the above quote from Lilly?
Warnock goes on to say:
This method of determining radicality ensures that there is harmony between the ascendant ruler, which represents the question (and querent), and the Lord of the hour, which represents the time that the question was asked.
My experience is that a radical chart which contains this sort of sympathy between the rising sign and hour ruler is accurate, but that the lack of radicality does not mean that a chart cannot be judged. The true test is how well the chart describes the situation. Physical descriptions derived from signficators can also be useful in validating a horary chart.
So might not the chart's well describing the situation make it readable nonetheless? I'm really just interested in your opinion in the matter; not really challenging anything.My experience is that a radical chart which contains this sort of sympathy between the rising sign and hour ruler is accurate, but that the lack of radicality does not mean that a chart cannot be judged. The true test is how well the chart describes the situation. Physical descriptions derived from signficators can also be useful in validating a horary chart.
(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)
-querent = 1st house = Aquarius = Saturn
-"he" = 7th house = Leo = the Sun
-Sun flows toward Saturn = + testimony
(I do not consider that Sun and Saturn are in square since I do not consider out of sign aspects except out of sign conjunctions if very close by degree; by platik criteria, Sun and Saturn are in trine by sign)
So, for me the answer is yes, the querent will run into this other person-but not all that soon:
-fixed signs are on the angles
-distance between significators = 4 signs; so, since fixed signs are on the pivots, for me this would be at least 4 weeks (from the date of the question) and perhaps as long as 4 months...
-querent = 1st house = Aquarius = Saturn
-"he" = 7th house = Leo = the Sun
-Sun flows toward Saturn = + testimony
(I do not consider that Sun and Saturn are in square since I do not consider out of sign aspects except out of sign conjunctions if very close by degree; by platik criteria, Sun and Saturn are in trine by sign)
So, for me the answer is yes, the querent will run into this other person-but not all that soon:
-fixed signs are on the angles
-distance between significators = 4 signs; so, since fixed signs are on the pivots, for me this would be at least 4 weeks (from the date of the question) and perhaps as long as 4 months...
Hello Dr Farr,
Yes I have read interpretations ans suggestions contrary or different to the strict definition of radicality. In fact I have seen people most often reading the charts without paying much attention to the relationship between planetary hour and asc.
Although on this my perspective is simply of an astrological novice - a person who is attempting to learn astrology systematically. In other words, I do not want to attempt to break dance before I learn how to walk properly.
With your years of practice and learning I am sure you are in a better positions to weigh in different factors.
cheers.
Yes I have read interpretations ans suggestions contrary or different to the strict definition of radicality. In fact I have seen people most often reading the charts without paying much attention to the relationship between planetary hour and asc.
Although on this my perspective is simply of an astrological novice - a person who is attempting to learn astrology systematically. In other words, I do not want to attempt to break dance before I learn how to walk properly.
With your years of practice and learning I am sure you are in a better positions to weigh in different factors.
cheers.
Absolutely-you are just starting out, find an approach that "tastes good" to you, then follow it and see how things turn out! Consideration for radicality of a horary question based on planetary hour agreement goes way back (to Bonatti, 13th century), as do considerations regarding "too early/too late ascending degree", and many have followed these strictures as part of their approach to horary delineation. Go with it in your approach and then as you eventually gain experience and, most importantly, confidence, then you might wish to make other considerations on your own, or decide to continue on the path you have been following.
1) find what appeals to you
2) learn that method
3) apply it as it is laid out for you
4) get experience with it, and seewhat develops over time...
1) find what appeals to you
2) learn that method
3) apply it as it is laid out for you
4) get experience with it, and seewhat develops over time...
IleneK
Premium Member
Hello Dr Farr,
Yes I have read interpretations ans suggestions contrary or different to the strict definition of radicality. In fact I have seen people most often reading the charts without paying much attention to the relationship between planetary hour and asc.
Although on this my perspective is simply of an astrological novice - a person who is attempting to learn astrology systematically. In other words, I do not want to attempt to break dance before I learn how to walk properly.
With your years of practice and learning I am sure you are in a better positions to weigh in different factors.
cheers.
Hi, unteruber
I think your response may have been directed to my question, rather than Dr Farr, and I thank you for it. While I have practiced astrology for many years, I am newer to horary and traditional astrology, which is why I appreciated your comments [and Dr Farr's] and why I so value the forum as a learning tool.
Hi, MizzLizz,
My apology to you for sidetracking your thread.
After all this instructive discussion,I will stand by my delineation and wait for the outcome. Wishing you the best and please let us know what happens.