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  #26  
Unread 02-06-2009, 08:35 PM
Raindrops Raindrops is offline
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

Although it does appear that the number of homosexuals is rising, MANY MANY existed but now they are letting people know they are there. When my grandparents were young (1910's), they said there were MANY homosexuals in society and it would be whispered about homosexual pedophiles "so-in-so likes young boys, so keep your son away...") but the topic of homosexuality (and pedophilia for that matter) was a topic kept out of the mainstream, just like the topic of sex at the time.

Hollywood is a good example: Since the 1910's, it was a magnet for lesbians, gays and bisexuals but MGM studios would pay to keep it out of the press (Cary Grant, Rock Hudson, James Dean, Marlon Brando, for instance). Movie stars had contracts that stated that although they could be openly gay on the set, the studio crew could not comment to the press about their conduct. MGM would go to extreme lengths to hide the sexuality of a movie star, even forcing them to marry people of the opposite gender to avoid suspicion. At the same time, they would not allow two heterosexuals to marry if they thought it would hurt their public profile (ie. Jeanette MacDonald & Nelson Eddy).

Hmm, the newly released film "The Changeling" starring Angelina Jolie was based on the Wineville Chicken Coup Murders, a high profile case that occured in Los Angelos during in the 1930's, a case that centered around a young boy who was kidnapped by the serial murderer Gordon Northcott. The movie fails to mention that Gordon Northcott kidnapped the boys and tied them to beds because he was "renting them out" to movie stars who would drive out to his ranch for sexual favors. The court papers never named the movie stars by name (Hmm, perhaps MGM Studios paid $$$$ to keep their names out of this high profile case like they did for so many other situations?).

Anyway, I was just trying to say that although bisexuality and homosexuality seems more prevalent these days, I believe that it has been staying under the radar.

I hope that no one is offended that I mentioned pedophilia in the same post as homosexuality. But it, too, is a topic that stays under the radar while at the same time has a larger community than the most would believe and pushes to be socially accepted. In the end, sexual identities are not becoming more prevalent, but appear to keep the same ratio within society.

LOL, all of this was in response to the very very first post of this thread. :P

Finally, I'm guessing that finding this social acceptance has taken over 30 years and sounds like a Pluto aspect??


Last edited by Raindrops; 02-07-2009 at 12:32 AM.
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  #27  
Unread 02-06-2009, 09:16 PM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn
Anyway, I'm done debating. I might as well post my aspects. Oh wait, I dont have any of the aspects you listed. Does that mean I'm not really gay? Haha. Well, here's my chart, attached.
Yup. You're not really gay. It's all in your mind. You can now choose not to be gay. :38:

I like that icon (above) because it always reminds me of Groucho Marx.

Seriously, the people who are most vocal in these discussions are always the ones who know the least. I suppose at least *someone* will "reverse-engineer" your chart and tell you that you really do have "indications" in your chart.

I don't see any. Again, I am one who does not believe (at least up till this time) sexuality can be read from a chart.

But my point all along is that what we can see, with some success, is the likelyhood of someone being open, and I *do* see indicators of that.

So what is happening in this thread? We are getting a few charts of people who are very open. You are one of them. Honestly, no fear of speaking out, things like that.

THOSE things we *can* at least take a good guess at from a chart.

To mention just one thing astrologically, to keep this topic *about* astrology, I can't imagine anyone with a T-sqare like yours, so close to the angles, Moon, Pluto, Mars, fixed signs, with Aries Sun and Leo Moon, being comfortable not speaking out when what other people are saying is not fair!
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Last edited by gaer; 02-06-2009 at 09:22 PM.
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  #28  
Unread 02-06-2009, 09:29 PM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raindrops
I hope that no one is offended that I mentioned pedophilia in the same post as homosexuality.
What does being gay and being a pedophile have in common here? And where is astrology in this?
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  #29  
Unread 02-06-2009, 10:02 PM
eternalautumn
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

Quote:
But it, too, is a topic that stays under the radar while at the same time has a larger community than the most would believe and it is also pushing to be socially accepted.
I see your point, but I think there is a difference that you may be missing. Homosexuality is not in the same boat as pedophilia. Pedophilia is "bad" because a child is not mentally, physically, emotionally, or in any other way, willing and able to consent to sexual acts with an adult. It doesnt deserve to be socially acceptable. There is definitely something wrong with having sex with a child, especially since mots of the time the children are either raped or are too young to even know what's happeneing. Also, most pedophiles are straight (even in the cases of men and little boys), married, middle-aged, white, males, who are often related to the child/victim. It's not really a "sexuality" in my opinion.

Anyway, I'm making a guess here, but would Mercury maybe affect how you tolerate yourself and "talk to" your self, i.e. self-dialogue? I think maybe Venus and Mercury aspects could have an influence on how an individual tolerates themselves and others, like either accepting everyone and celebrating differences or being rigidly opposed to all other views.
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  #30  
Unread 02-07-2009, 01:28 AM
Raindrops Raindrops is offline
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

I choose pedophilia because it is quite an ubiquitous undercurrent in society. Roughly 30% of Thailand's young children decide that not only are they transsexual, but engage in relationships with adults.

Hustler Magazine used to publish articles entitled "Adolescent Fantasy" which included explicit photos of children and naked girl scouts, calling for an end to the age of consent, along with "Chester The Molester" caricatures (issues Feb 1975, Oct 1976, March 1977 and Dec 1978). This was before pedophilia was completely illegalized within the US.

But the very first post asked, "Why are so many people becoming homosexual?" My response: There are many sexual orientations that make up a large percentage of society. When they are illegalized, they go underground. When society accepts them, they reemerge and that is why it seems as if "so many people suddenly join an orientation."

I think the planet Pluto, which rules sex and extremes, influences how society accepts or restrains the sexual orientations and preferences within a society over 30 year periods of time.
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  #31  
Unread 02-07-2009, 02:08 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
I choose pedophilia because it is quite an ubiquitous undercurrent in society. Roughly 30% of Thailand's young children decide that not only are they transsexual, but engage in relationships with adults.

How can a child choose such a thing? A child has no choice in this matter, the child just does what the parents say and the parents are poor and deprived so they depend on their children to cater to westerners who take advantage of poor people all around the world. The parents feel that there is no other way to make money in a poor and deprived country so fot them, selling their children off into sex slavery is all that they know. If you want a way out of poverty death and despair, look to the west as long as you don't mind getting down and dirty. This is not just the fault of westerners, this is the fault of all of us. We have all failed these people...


"The child sex industry is such a money spinner in Asia that the International Labor Organization has estimated that in Thailand alone, it is worth between 14 and 16 percent of the country's GDP.
Meanwhile the UNICEF has said in a background paper that one third of sex workers in the Mekong area are child.
Thailand and Cambodia have also made moves to prosecute locals and well as foreign tourists for pedophilia.
In August this year, one of the FBI's 10 most-wanted fugitives, an alleged pedophile and admitted child molester from the United States, was arrested in Bangkok."
Eric Franklin Rosser, 49, a professional jazz and concert pianist, faces a number of charges over child pornography, including "the production of a videotape in Thailand which depicts sexually explicit conduct between himself and an eleven-year-old female child".
Police had raided his apartment and found hundreds of explicit photographs and videos of girls who appeared to be below the age of 15."

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/11/22/asia.childsex/


"The reality is, alas, somewhat different and more complex. In the opinion of Noi, a 24 year old male nurse at a Bangkok hospital: "European gays are mesmerised by all the pretty boys and night-clubs. They mistakenly assume that this means there is equality for homosexuals in Thailand. In fact, the social integration of gay people is quite ambiguous, even precarious. The toleration of so many gay bars has as much to do with maintaining the profits of the tourist industry as with the social acceptance of homosexuals."
http://www.petertatchell.net/international/thailand.htm

"Child pornography depicting children possibly as young as 7 years old is freely available at shops and stalls around Phnom Penh's Phsar Thmei, a two-day investigation by The Cambodia Daily has found. The VCDs, which include scenes of bondage and torture, are being sold for 50 cents under such Khmer-language titles as "Luring Underage Child," "Old Grandfather Forced Underage Child To Have Sex," and "70-Year-Old Grandfather Rapes 9-Year-Old Girl."
At O'Russei market, two VCD vendors said they sold child pornography, while on Street 169 opposite Baktouk High School, two computer stalls offered child **** video footage downloads to mobile phones.
One of the VCDs purchased at the Phnom Penh CD shop opposite Phsar Thmei, which was apparently shot at the Svay Pak brothel village on the outskirts of Phnom Penh, was handed over to anti-pedophile NGO International Justice Mission on Monday.
The footage depicts several very young girls with two Western men and includes scenes of sexual torture."
http://www.camnet.com.kh/cambodia.daily/selected_features/cd-Jan-10-2007.htm




Link back: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...1&postcount=85

Last edited by Astrologer4U; 02-07-2009 at 02:11 AM.
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  #32  
Unread 02-07-2009, 03:31 AM
Raindrops Raindrops is offline
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

I understand that you are saying that these children are not truly consenting to a relationship with an adult because they are forced into such situations by the parents or they are in need of money or lured into such situations. I am aware of that.

However, Japan is the world's leading producer of child pornography. "Lolicon manga" (cartoon child pornography) is downloaded by my Chinese friends on a daily basis. U-15 (Under 15) signs on the streets of Tokyo advertise DVDs and photobooks of pre-pubescent girls in thongs and other specialty shops sell schoolgirls' used underwear. Lolicon pornography (they look like cute 6-year-olds) was created to appeal to a small percentage of society, but actually became mass demand - now sold at bookstores and news stands. Japan, outside of the pornography business, is one of the richest nations in the world with a very high standard of living. When interviewed, the children and their parents say that they don't have a problem with "neutral, sexless beauty" that only a premature girl can possess and they have no issue with the photos sold in hardcore magazines.

Japan claims that it is more open about sex and sex culture than the west.

Last edited by Raindrops; 02-07-2009 at 03:53 AM.
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  #33  
Unread 02-07-2009, 03:34 AM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: Indications of Homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn
THANK YOU!
Thank you waybread and gaer. I called for backup; I thought you guys would never show up. Haha. =]
There are lots of good people here. Some do not have as much to say as others who really should listen more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn
I see your point, but I think there is a difference that you may be missing. Homosexuality is not in the same boat as pedophilia.

I'm not going to make any comments except to say that zero comments have been made about astrology here, and a discussion of pedophila is off topic. If people do not realize that being gay and being a pedophile are not related, save yourself some time. Just move on.
Quote:
Yeah, I've heard a lot about this T-Square lately. I'm getting kind of worried. I need to research it more. Do you mind maybe expanding on what you see in it, and maybe if anything affects openness or tolerance or things like that? =]
I'm going to give you an answer that may sound evasive, but it's not meant to be. My initial involvement in astrology was about understanding myself. I think I understand more about my own chart than anyone else.

I think the best thing you can do is to study *your* chart, come to conclusions about what your own chart means to you, then share that with people you trust. If you stick around here for long, you'll find out quickly who to listen to.

Suppose I say, for instance, that a T-square is "difficult". Well, has your life been easy so far? From the little I've read you write, I'd say it has not been. What have you learned by facing difficulties? Is it worth it? Do you know things that other people with an easier life don't know Can you use those things to reach out and help others? If so, I think it's all good.

So go ahead and read up on Moon in the 9th but close to the MC (mid heaven). Read up on Mars in the 3rd but again very close to the IC. Then Mars opposite Moon. Then Pluto in the 1st, very close to the AC. Then Mars square Pluto. Then Moon square Pluto.

By this time you'll be so overwhelemed with info that you'll feel dizzy, most likely. But in the end only you can decide what it really means. You will find such "difficult" aspect patterns in the charts of people who are incredibly successful, and some appear to be very happy people. So don't let people go on ego trips and predict gloom and doom.

Along with the difficult T, and a difficult Uranus/Neptune sqaure Sun, you have a very nice Sun/Moon trine and a really nice Jupiter/Venus/Sun configuration. Later you can think about the fact that Venus forms "out of sign" aspects to Mercury and Jupiter, meaning that the trine from Venus to Jupiter (Aquarius to Cancer) does not have two air or two water signs.

The best might be for you to start different topics about some of these aspect patterns, and take a shot at figuring out what they mean to you. The moment you begin trying to "master" (understand) your own chart, you should get a ton of help.

I will only guess, at this time, that you are probably much more intense than you realize and that this is probably as obvious or much more to other people than it is to you. Aries Sun, Leo Moon, Scorpio AC together seem pretty powerful to me.
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  #34  
Unread 02-07-2009, 05:27 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
I'm not going to make any comments except to say that zero comments have been made about astrology here, and a discussion of pedophila is off topic. If people do not realize that being gay and being a pedophile are not related, save yourself some time. Just move on.

No matter how sensitive one is about being gay, one does not speak for all gay people. Try telling the above to those boy children, now grown up gay men who had been molested by other men, which led them to only know and understand what sex is like with a man and not a woman. Would you tell them they are not gay and that their being molested for so many years has nothing to do with their current gay lifestyle? 9 times out of 10, a young boy who has been repeatedly molested by a man, is going to grow up to be gay.

All gay people do not share the same story, all gay people do not believe that they were born gay... All gay people do not get upset at the thought of looking for explanations, aspects, which point to why they are the way that they are, they don't all take offense to that. All gay people are not upset about looking for aspects in their natal, or any kind of chart for that matter. All gay people are not gay because they feel they were born that way, in fact many will and have admitted that they are gay by choice. One gay person or even a hundred gay people, do not speak for all gay people. Even gay people censor other openly gay people for telling their story on how they see themselves as they are, and why they are the way that they are. I think that it is really a cold day in hell, when another gay person criticizes another gay person for not seeing things the way the the majority of gay people would like to see things. That being, that homosexuality, or being gay is not a choice. That being gay has nothing to do with enviroment, circumstances etcetera, etcetera. This may not apply to you, but it does apply to some. I don't have to be gay to realize that, I just have to be one who pays close attention to people regardless if they are gay or not.



Link back: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...9&postcount=88


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Last edited by Astrologer4U; 02-07-2009 at 05:31 AM.
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  #35  
Unread 02-07-2009, 06:09 AM
eternalautumn
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
No matter how sensitive one is about being gay, one does not speak for all gay people. Try telling the above to those boy children, now grown up gay men who had been molested by other men, which led them to only know and understand what sex is like with a man and not a woman. Would you tell them they are not gay and that their being molested for so many years has nothing to do with their current gay lifestyle? 9 times out of 10, a young boy who has been repeatedly molested by a man, is going to grow up to be gay.
Now you seem to be talking about the victims of pedophilia, while at first your focus was on the actual pedophiles. You, sir, seem to be very wishy-washy with your ideas. Instead of having to come back with a defense every time you're challenged, why dont you just say what you mean and leave it at that, and not change your story every other post? It just seems easier to me...

Quote:
All gay people do not get upset at the thought of looking for explanations, aspects, which point to why they are the way that they are, they don't all take offense to that. All gay people are not upset about looking for aspects in their natal, or any kind of chart for that matter.
I, personally, was not condemning the act. I was questioning the motive.

Quote:
All gay people are not gay because they feel they were born that way, in fact many will and have admitted that they are gay by choice.
I do not agree with that. I feel that many accept the fact that society as a whole is going to treat them differently/negatively, but they are willing to deal with this rather than quenching their feelings and causing a whole mess of psychological distress. I do not think that random straight men get bored with women and suddenly decide to "go gay", as you seem to imply with "they are gay by choice".

Quote:
One gay person or even a hundred gay people, do not speak for all gay people.
And this is news how? No one person or group of people speaks for any other person or group of people. That is elementary. And that is why it is so difficult for people to accept the generalizations that you continue to make.
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  #36  
Unread 02-07-2009, 06:17 AM
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Kaiousei no Senshi Kaiousei no Senshi is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
Try telling the above to those boy children, now grown up gay men who had been molested by other men, which led them to only know and understand what sex is like with a man and not a woman.
Try telling them what? That pedophilia is like homosexuality? Well, I'm sure the grand majority would laugh at you, considering the all of the studies done by various people and organizations relating to mental and child development.

Quote:
Would you tell them they are not gay and that their being molested for so many years has nothing to do with their current gay lifestyle? 9 times out of 10, a young boy who has been repeatedly molested by a man, is going to grow up to be gay.
I'm not quite sure it quite connects that way. Seeing as how the logic involved would make one think such a thing happening would repulse the victim to such thoughts. *shrug* Who knows though, sometimes things don't always work out the way logic tells you it should.

Quote:
All gay people do not share the same story, all gay people do not believe that they were born gay...
I think it's interesting the way you put things. Sure, not all gay people share the same story, and I'm sure there are some gay people who don't believe they were born that way, but the fact of the matter is its the overwhelming minority who feel that way. So, I'm not so sure how you can just think you can say anything you want, but not put an exclusive word to it and it sounds more poignant than it really is.

Quote:
All gay people do not get upset at the thought of looking for explanations, aspects, which point to why they are the way that they are, they don't all take offense to that. All gay people are not upset about looking for aspects in their natal, or any kind of chart for that matter.
No, but the grand majority of gay people get upset when people speculate about the cause or aspect that makes them that way instead of sitting down and doing observational research on it. With speculation comes bias and with bias comes false information. Observational research destroys such bias and false information as it skips the "What we think we should look for" step and goes straight to the "looking" part.

I'm actually surprised you continue to bring this up since the point has been made time and time again that the looking for the aspect or inclination or what the hell ever you want to call it isn't the problem. It's the speculating with the "Oh, well, this is what I thing homosexuality is and should be shown as" instead of "Let's get lots of charts and actually put it to a real test to see if there's any significant similarity between all these charts." I'm sorry you think it's such a bad thing and that the speculation is the best way to go.

Quote:
All gay people are not gay because they feel they were born that way, in fact many will and have admitted that they are gay by choice
"Many"? More like a few. Now, I know a LOT of people from all over the world, and I've never had anyone tell me that they've consciously chosen their sexuality, regardless of what it is. But, okay. I'll give you that one because I'm sure there's someone out there who thinks like that. There just has to be one, it's statistics.

Quote:
One gay person or even a hundred gay people, do not speak for all gay people.
True, nor does one hetero who couldn't possibly relate. Just playing by the way. I wanted to take a quick playful jab at the way it sounds. It sort of comes off as a "You can't, but I can" thing, though I doubt you meant to make it that way.

Quote:
Even gay people censor other openly gay people for telling their story on how they see themselves as they are, and why they are the way that they are. I think that it is really a cold day in hell, when another gay person criticizes another gay person for not seeing things the way the the majority of gay people would like to see things.
Has this really happened or are you just making that up? Is there a documented case of this? Personally, I think that when several independent organizations all arrive to the same conclusion through different means (Like the Psychological, Psychiatric, Pediatric and whoever else Associations), and someone says the opposite...I'm definitely going to have to call into question the one dissenter. I'm not saying that automatically makes them suspect or false, but that if someone's going to say something against the flow, there better be something to it instead of a "I disagree because I can".

Quote:
That being gay has nothing to do with enviroment, circumstances etcetera, etcetera.
I think this would be a more interesting discussion by itself if the whole of astrology was called into question in the nature vs. nurture debate. As an astrologer, I'm much more likely to believe that it's completely on the nature side of the fence, but even Ptolemy had his doubts to how true that was.

Quote:
I don't have to be gay to realize that,
But it helps to be to understand the sensitivities of having people "speculate" on your sexuality as if it were a disease. I thought we were long past those days. Even Freud said that sexuality was an immutable thing, back in the day when everyone thought it could be. Electro-shock?! :O

Now, I'm going to say this one more time, for the record.

I don't believe that sexuality of any kind can be derived from a natal chart. However, I would not be against an actual study to see if any correlation existed in the charts of homosexuals. Speculating on what you think should be there isn't cool, because to be honest, I have had none of the speculated aspects or conditions in my natal chart. :S

That is all.
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  #37  
Unread 02-07-2009, 07:36 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalautumn
Now you seem to be talking about the victims of pedophilia, while at first your focus was on the actual pedophiles. You, sir, seem to be very wishy-washy with your ideas. Instead of having to come back with a defense every time you're challenged, why dont you just say what you mean and leave it at that, and not change your story every other post? It just seems easier to me...

You call it wishy washy, I call it objective, not subjective. What is it that you don't understand exactly? That you don't want your sexuality to be grouped in with pedophiles? Try getting that part out of your head and then maybe you can see the big picture. Sexuality is sexuality, no matter how distorted, or disgusting the sexuality may be.

I, personally, was not condemning the act. I was questioning the motive.

When you saw the title to the thread, did you come into the thread with an open mind, or were you looking forward to a motive that reeked of questioning. There are other gay people who have contributed to the gay threads here at this site. Some of them do not like the idea of the gay threads and many of them had no problem with it. Those that had no problem with it did not think there was any motive outside the curiosity towards linking sexualitypreferably gay/homosexuality into Astrology.


I do not agree with that. I feel that many accept the fact that society as a whole is going to treat them differently/negatively, but they are willing to deal with this rather than quenching their feelings and causing a whole mess of psychological distress. I do not think that random straight men get bored with women and suddenly decide to "go gay", as you seem to imply with "they are gay by choice".


I am not saying that this goes for all gay people but I have seen instances where gay people really come down on other gay people for saying that their own gay sexuality was a choice. How is another gay person going to get angry with anoter gay person for telling his story, a story he knows better than anyone? In this case, you have the feeling that one was born gay, versus the one who feels that being gay was a choice and these two groups fight amongst each other. The ones who feel being gay is not a choice, they seem to win becuase they carry more anger it seems. The ones who feel they are gay by choice, for the most part, they never mention it again, that they are gay by choice becuase they too, don't want to recieve the back lash from the gay community that has embraced them as "born gays". Plus, hey know, it is a no win battle.

May I ask you this, what is really the differance between one who feels he was born gay and one who feels as though his being gay is a choice? They are both having sex with the same sex and enjoying it, so why do these two groups of gay people fight against each other?



And this is news how? No one person or group of people speaks for any other person or group of people. That is elementary. And that is why it is so difficult for people to accept the generalizations that you continue to make.
Please quote what you percieve as a generalization so that I may properly defend my self

Also, I think your accusation of me generalizing, was in fact elementary to say the least. Only someone who hears that accusation often during a debate, would in accurately, accuse someone else of such.


What you said...

Quote:
I do not agree with that. I feel that many accept the fact that society as a whole is going to treat them differently/negatively, but they are willing to deal with this rather than quenching their feelings and causing a whole mess of psychological distress. I do not think that random straight men get bored with women and suddenly decide to "go gay", as you seem to imply with "they are gay by choice".
Your above quote was in response to this...

"All gay peopleare not gay because they feel they were born that way, in fact many will and have admitted that they are gay by choice."

This happens so much here at this site... You and I have said the same thing, just not in the same way my dear....









We both said many, not all.
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  #38  
Unread 02-07-2009, 08:31 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Try telling them what? That pedophilia is like homosexuality?

You go and figure it out

Well, I'm sure the grand majority would laugh at you, considering the all of the studies done by various people and organizations relating to mental and child development.

Laugh at me, you would like that, but seriously, that's not really what this is all about now is it?

I'm not quite sure it quite connects that way. Seeing as how the logic involved would make one think such a thing happening would repulse the victim to such thoughts. *shrug* Who knows though, sometimes things don't always work out the way logic tells you it should.

Are you a male who has been quite molested in a society that deems a man less than a man, if he has been ******* by another man? Do you know of men who have been quite molested? I do. I said 9 times out of 10, a young boy who has been molested will be a gay adult male. The 1 out of 10 who is repulsed by the same sex, has difficulty sexually and emotionally relating to women, although he has tried. The 9 who turn into gay adult men, they are what I call survivors. They have accepted what has happend to them and they made the best of it. I am not saying that they enjoyed being molested but when a child is a child and a child has been tought how to feel, if that same child grows into an adult who has learned to enjoy sex with the same sex, through a negative experience, yet they are not hurting other children and living productive lives, I applaud them.


I think it's interesting the way you put things. Sure, not all gay people share the same story, and I'm sure there are some gay people who don't believe they were born that way, but the fact of the matter is its the overwhelming minority who feel that way. So, I'm not so sure how you can just think you can say anything you want, but not put an exclusive word to it and it sounds more poignant than it really is.

I can say what I want, just like you can. Just like I could also say that the overwhelming majority perhaps, have a propaganda they wish to promote, but I won't say that.

No, but the grand majority of gay people get upset when people speculate about the cause or aspect that makes them that way instead of sitting down and doing observational research on it. With speculation comes bias and with bias comes false information. Observational research destroys such bias and false information as it skips the "What we think we should look for" step and goes straight to the "looking" part.

There would be no bias if all sexuality's were researched and aspectly sought out. In my opinion, Gayness is not a special case. Transvestites and Transgendereds are more special to me. I would like to study that Astrologically wise. If I could just get a hold of a few charts that belongs to people like that. What a thought.

I'm actually surprised you continue to bring this up since the point has been made time and time again that the looking for the aspect or inclination or what the hell ever you want to call it isn't the problem. It's the speculating with the "Oh, well, this is what I thing homosexuality is and should be shown as" instead of "Let's get lots of charts and actually put it to a real test to see if there's any significant similarity between all these charts." I'm sorry you think it's such a bad thing and that the speculation is the best way to go.

I wish it were all that easy.

"Many"? More like a few. Now, I know a LOT of people from all over the world, and I've never had anyone tell me that they've consciously chosen their sexuality, regardless of what it is. But, okay. I'll give you that one because I'm sure there's someone out there who thinks like that. There just has to be one, it's statistics.

If you would open up, you will see it. I was suprised to actually hear these two guys I know say this. One of them even went on television and said it, that being gay for him was a choice. He is the one I saw get trashed on by other gay men, he say's he goes through it all the time. This is why you don't see it or hear of it much. As you said earlier, the vast majority rule and they know what to do with those gay people who go against the...


True, nor does one hetero who couldn't possibly relate. Just playing by the way. I wanted to take a quick playful jab at the way it sounds. It sort of comes off as a "You can't, but I can" thing, though I doubt you meant to make it that way.

Sure whatever you say...


Has this really happened or are you just making that up?

Wow, how closed minded we can be. Do you really think gay people are innocent and that they could not dare be accountable for such...LOL You have not lived yet.

Is there a documented case of this?

I will do my best to track one down for you... I promise. Documenting such would go against the prop... but I will do my best.

Personally, I think that when several independent organizations all arrive to the same conclusion through different means (Like the Psychological, Psychiatric, Pediatric and whoever else Associations), and someone says the opposite...I'm definitely going to have to call into question the one dissenter. I'm not saying that automatically makes them suspect or false, but that if someone's going to say something against the flow, there better be something to it instead of a "I disagree because I can".

I agree, it is all of our jobs to become informed about as much as we can. Most organization are not innocent. Most, not all, of them are corrupt.

I think this would be a more interesting discussion by itself if the whole of astrology was called into question in the nature vs. nurture debate. As an astrologer, I'm much more likely to believe that it's completely on the nature side of the fence, but even Ptolemy had his doubts to how true that was.

Exactly... If you take a child who is born in Cambodia and a child born in America who has the same aspects, signs etc. and compare them, watch what you get, it will not be the same results. Both individuals come from a different enviroment and I am sure each of them have been nutured differently, due to culture differances.


Now, I'm going to say this one more time, for the record.

I don't believe that sexuality of any kind can be derived from a natal chart. However, I would not be against an actual study to see if any correlation existed in the charts of homosexuals. Speculating on what you think should be there isn't cool, because to be honest, I have had none of the speculated aspects or conditions in my natal chart. :S

That is all.
To each is own....


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Unread 02-07-2009, 08:48 AM
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
Are you a male who has been quite molested in a society that deems a man less than a man, if he has been ******* by another man?


No, but I do have consentual sex with other men in a society that deems a man less of a man by doing so. Are you? I enjoy how you attempt to reprimand me in a situation that neither of us fit the bill of quite right.

Quote:
Do you know of men who have been quite molested? I do. I said 9 times out of 10, a young boy who has been molested will be a gay adult male. The 1 out of 10 who is repulsed by the same sex, has difficulty sexually and emotionally relating to women, although he has tried. The 9 who turn into gay adult men, they are what I call survivors. They have accepted what has happend to them and they made the best of it. I am not saying that they enjoyed being molested but when a child is a child and a child has been tought how to feel, if that same child grows into an adult who has learned to enjoy sex with the same sex, through a negative experience, yet they are not hurting other children and living productive lives, I applaud them.
Wow, that's great. I know people who have been molested by members of the same sex too, I know people who have been raped by people of the opposite sex. Now I would appreciate it if you would back off and stop attacking me as if I'm saying anything negative about these people. I was only pointing out that the logic involved in the situation is ironic from what you would expect and I'm not convinced that such events are the cause of anything. Would they have been gay without it happening? Who knows!!! But, seeing as how the majority of gay people are gay without being molested or raped, I would say the statistics are more in favor of it not being a cause, just an unfortunate coincidence.

Quote:
I can say what I want, just like you can. Just like I could also say that the overwhelming majority perhaps, have a propaganda they wish to promote, but I won't say that.
I'm glad you liken propaganda with equal rights. Or maybe I just misunderstood, but I see nothing else on the gay agenda, except for ENDA and MSHCA.

Quote:
There would be no bias if all sexuality's were researched and aspectly sought out. In my opinion, Gayness is not a special case. Transvestites and Transgendereds are more special to me. I would like to study that Astrologically wise. If I could just get a hold of a few charts that belongs to people like that. What a thought.
That's true, and I'm sure all sexualities will eventually be researched. It's just that homosexuality is the "big one" right now with everything that's been going on politically. The problem, like I said, is the speculation, not the actual observation. I don't think anyone has a problem with that, or at least not a problem that has some basis in logic as opposed to paranoia.

Quote:
I wish it were all that easy.
Trust me, some things are that simple.

Quote:
If you would open up, you will see it. I was suprised to actually hear these two guys I know say this. One of them even went on television and said it, that being gay for him was a choice. He is the one I saw get trashed on by other gay men, he say's he goes through it all the time. This is why you don't see it or hear of it much. As you said earlier, the vast majority rule and they know what to do with those gay people who go against the...
For some people, they may choose to be that way, or they may just tell themselves that they have. Who knows. I just know that people don't normally consciously choose their sexuality. It doesn't happen that way and you yourself are a living testament to that.

Quote:
Wow, how closed minded we can be. Do you really think gay people are innocent and that they could not dare be accountable for such...LOL You have not lived yet.
I'm sorry you equate asking for proof of a suspicious statement as being "close-minded". I like to think of it as focusing on the facts.

Quote:
I agree, it is all of our jobs to become informed about as much as we can. Most organization are not innocent. Most, not all, of them are corrupt.
Organizations may sometimes be "corrupt", but the experiments they run (which by their very nature must repeatable to anyone who wants to try them) and the results gained from them are not. If the experiments were fraudulent, then another group of people would have challenged it. It's just how things work.
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Unread 02-07-2009, 08:50 AM
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
When you saw the title to the thread, did you come into the thread with an open mind, or were you looking forward to a motive that reeked of questioning. ............... Those that had no problem with it did not think there was any motive outside the curiosity towards linking sexualitypreferably gay/homosexuality into Astrology.
Not that kind of motive. The motive behind finding homosexuality in a chart, because you definitely seem to be putting a negative spin on it, intentionally or not.

Now that you've brought up children who were molested and grew into adult gays, have you found any evidence in any appropriate number of charts to foretell if that person was molested by the same sex would they in turn mature and become homosexual? I'm just wondering...

Quote:
I am not saying that this goes for all gay people but I have seen instances where gay people really come down on other gay people for saying that their own gay sexuality was a choice. How is another gay person going to get angry with anoter gay person for telling his story, a story he knows better than anyone? In this case, you have the feeling that one was born gay, versus the one who feels that being gay was a choice and these two groups fight amongst each other. The ones who feel being gay is not a choice, they seem to win becuase they carry more anger it seems. The ones who feel they are gay by choice, for the most part, they never mention it again, that they are gay by choice becuase they too, don't want to recieve the back lash from the gay community that has embraced them as "born gays". Plus, hey know, it is a no win battle.
That whole paragraph honestly sounds like you're narrating an Animal Planet special. Why do you have to present your ideas in such a way as to make it negative, every single time?

Quote:
May I ask you this, what is really the differance between one who feels he was born gay and one who feels as though his being gay is a choice? They are both having sex with the same sex and enjoying it, so why do these two groups of gay people fight against each other?
That's totally off subject, but there is no difference. I have no explanation, as I cannot speak for all or any other gay people, only myself, and I dont fight with any other gay people about that subject, so I wouldnt know.

Quote:
Also, I think your accusation of me generalizing, was in fact elementary to say the least. Only someone who hears that accusation often during a debate, would in accurately, accuse someone else of such.
That's pretty aggressive. And I can barely understand it.

Quote:
This happens so much here at this site... You and I have said the same thing, just not in the same way my dear....
I defintely disagree. There's some kind of misunderstanding going on at a deeper level. I'm not picking birth over choice, or nature over nurture, as you seem to think I am. I appreciate all four of those views and think them all valid. However, I do think that people are born with (and therefore in the natal chart) a certain predisposition (for lack of a better word) to be open with, to tolerate, and to be true to, themselves and with others. The amount or degree of this trait I think would then influence a person's decision to come to terms with their sexuality, whatever that might be.

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Unread 02-07-2009, 07:00 PM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

What you have done is incredibly confusing.

First, you used this quote:

"I'm not going to make any comments except to say that zero comments have been made about astrology here, and a discussion of pedophila is off topic. If people do not realize that being gay and being a pedophile are not related, save yourself some time. Just move on."

You did not say that I wrote it. In addtion, you lifted that quote out of a message that was in another thread. In that topic the subject had nothing to do with pedophilia, and you mentioned nothing about astrology. You chose to turn that discussion into one about pedophilia. And you put my words in bold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrologer4U
No matter how sensitive one is about being gay, one does not speak for all gay people.
I'm not sure what "sensitive about being gay" means. Is this referring to me? I never said a thing about myself.
Quote:
9 times out of 10, a young boy who has been repeatedly molested by a man, is going to grow up to be gay.
There you go again, linking two different things. You are talking about child molesters. You are referring to men who molest boys as gay. So what about men who molest little girls? Are they "straight"?
Quote:
All gay people are not gay because they feel they were born that way, in fact many will and have admitted that they are gay by choice.
Your experience is different from mine. None of the gay people I have known or know now say that they chose to be gay. Not one. And I haven't seen anyone else in this forum agree with you.
Quote:
That being, that homosexuality, or being gay is not a choice. That being gay has nothing to do with enviroment, circumstances etcetera, etcetera. This may not apply to you, but it does apply to some.
I'm not sure what may or may not apply to me. Again, I have never said a think about my own sex orientation in this forum, or not that I remember.
Quote:
I don't have to be gay to realize that, I just have to be one who pays close attention to people regardless if they are gay or not.
With all due respect, I wonder how you know so much about what gay people think and feel, if you are not gay yourself. I've only know a few gay people well in my life. So my opinion is based on what they shared with me together with what I've read, including in this forum. I am *not* an "expert". I can only tell you that not one gay man I've talked to has ever told told me that he chose to be gay. For the people I've known it has been hard enough to find a reasonable degree of acceptance in society as a whole.
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Last edited by gaer; 02-07-2009 at 07:11 PM.
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Unread 02-08-2009, 01:29 AM
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

A few points to clarify here:
When I remember the tears that have been shed in my living room over the years, by young people struggling with their sexual identity, I really baulk at the concept that choosing one's path sexually is just a *thought-based* process..ie a *choice*.
From my own experience (and I've worked with young people for most of my life in one way or another), I've found that there is often a major *struggle* as someone caught in the middle of what society requires of them and what their own being feels, tries to find a way to be *who they truly are* without being at odds with society, or losing the love/support of their family.
Many of these young people, to whom I refer, had already *tried* to fit into the social conventions, tried dating and sleeping with the opposite sex, TRIED fulfilling the social conventions they were seemingly trapped in. (Has anyone seen the film *Brokeback Mountain*? It tried to deal with this idea too). One friend developed migraines as a direct result of the inner conflict she was experiencing and only when she fully acknowledged to herself that she wanted to be with a woman, and acted on that, did the migraines cease.
So when it's said to be a *choice*, it may be that the choice is whether to go along with society and be what society wants you to be, or to follow an instinctual leaning and forego one's own personal path in terms of being *who one truly is*.
I have known people to walk down both those roads.
There are. as a few posters have already pointed out,a decent number of people who fall in between the two extremes of *100% heterosexual* and *100% gay*. There are people who will never act on their *gay urges* for many reasons.There are people who will engage in heterosexual sex whilst fantasising something else...the list goes on. How would we *classify* someone who *occasionally* indulges in same gender sex? I have even known some people to form single sex relationships for *political reasons* and back in the 80's women receiving social security benefits were financially advantaged by living in *same sex* relationships.(Both could receive the benefit, because the law made no provision or did not recognise same sex relationships. I'm not suggesting those people *became gay* in order to receive the benefit, but for those *undecided* it could have tipped the scales in some instances, ) so we really can't generalise about what makes people feel gay, or be gay.There would be a multitude of factors.(We have yet to figure out *what makes a thing *funny*!!)

I grew up next door to a kid who at 4-5 years old wanted to dress up in girls' clothes and play with dolls (he had 3 brothers!). He was bullied mercilessly at school, and punished at home for being *weird*.
At 30 he finally *came out* to his parents, whose response was to send him to a shrink to *get his head sorted out*. They meant well but as a result of their non-acceptance of him being the way *he'd always been*he eventually abandonned his family altogether-it was all too painful.

So, when someone gets on here and pronounces that being gay is a *choice*, I am more than gobsmacked. It occurs in the animal world, it occurs in the plant world, so what makes anyone think it will be different for humans? We are part of nature too.
To equate paedophilia with being gay is just sheer ignorance, not to mention distasteful.To quote statistics such as *9 out of 10 boys molested will.... * is very silly. These stats aren't real.But if they *were* perhaps we could blame the Health system for not providing proper counselling to rape victims.(ie, if they are going on to *choose to be gay* because of having been raped...this is more like dissociative behaviour and nothing to do with one's healthy sexual preferences).

I seriously don't think *vegetarianism* can be shown in a chart either. I am a vegetarian-my moon is not in h6..another generalisation goes down the drain.
What concerns me about these types of threads is that the over generalising about what aspects mean, non specific to an actual chart,is very misleading for those newer to astrology.It doesnt do the cause of Astrology much good either. I noticed someone had raised the mars/venus conjunction again as an indicator of gayness.Well I got plenty of charts with that aspect, and none of them belong to gay people!
I do have actually quite a large number of gay clients in my files.But I would not dishonour them by posting up their charts and starting a discussion about their sex life! There is so much more to a chart than just one's sexual preferences, and by looking at a chart I have NEVER been able to tell.
My ex has almost every *gay aspect* mentioned...seriously..but NOT GAY>
Not even *closet*.
We can speculate til the cows come home,but that's all it can be .....*speculation*.
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  #43  
Unread 02-08-2009, 07:39 PM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
No, but I do have consentual sex with other men in a society that deems a man less of a man by doing so. Are you? I enjoy how you attempt to reprimand me in a situation that neither of us fit the bill of quite right.

Conesensual is not the same as non consentual now is it? You made your choice to have consensual sex understanding that being out with your sexuality would bring you certain ridicule that you could handle, or are you in the closet?

Boys who are molested did not make the choice to be molested. That 1 out of 10 who was molested and does not become a gay adult male, is struggling with what society say's about another man who has been ******* by another man. He feels as though he has been robbed of his manhood. He is struggling with the little boy inside of him plus the man he so desperately wants to be, but does not know how to be because he was sexually and emotionally robbed as a child. This particular man is not fit for another man or a woman.

Wow, that's great. I know people who have been molested by members of the same sex too, I know people who have been raped by people of the opposite sex. Now I would appreciate it if you would back off and stop attacking me as if I'm saying anything negative about these people. I was only pointing out that the logic involved in the situation is ironic from what you would expect and I'm not convinced that such events are the cause of anything. Would they have been gay without it happening? Who knows!!! But, seeing as how the majority of gay people are gay without being molested or raped, I would say the statistics are more in favor of it not being a cause, just an unfortunate coincidence.


You are wrong on that, no coincidence at all. For whatever reason, People make the choice everyday to be gay, some people even make the choice to be Bi sexual.


That's true, and I'm sure all sexualities will eventually be researched. It's just that homosexuality is the "big one" right now with everything that's been going on politically. The problem, like I said, is the speculation, not the actual observation. I don't think anyone has a problem with that, or at least not a problem that has some basis in logic as opposed to paranoia.

When you say politically, you mean with the gay rights to marriage issue and all?


Trust me, some things are that simple.

This sexuality issue is not simple as this thread shows.

For some people, they may choose to be that way, or they may just tell themselves that they have. Who knows. I just know that people don't normally consciously choose their sexuality. It doesn't happen that way and you yourself are a living testament to that.

I chose my sexuality.

I'm sorry you equate asking for proof of a suspicious statement as being "close-minded". I like to think of it as focusing on the facts.
Here is a video where two gay guys are complaining about this other gay guy who said he chose to be gay. How are these two going to get angry with another man saying he chose to be gay? I am going to look for the show so you can see how they really came down on him hard, almost to the point alienation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I5dVRF_VfE


These two guys are a couple of riots. True Drama queens...



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  #44  
Unread 02-08-2009, 08:23 PM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

@Kaiousei no Senshi


The white guy say's he don't need no one to tell him what he is and what he feels but he is telling the black guy what the feels. Blatant hypocrisy. then they want to blame his feelings on his age. Bunch of baloney. In the other videos they keep trying to break him down ad make him agree with them. The black guy asks a legitimate question, why is the big older white guy so angry with what another man believes? The vids are no in order but Follow the videos on the order. They just don't let up on this guy, they are clearly trying to force their opinions on him.

Vid #1 http://www.logoonline.com/video/?vid=275852


In this video Jamel let's them know that they get tired of trying to make him keep quiet. The big white guy however loves him in that video.
Vid # 2 http://www.logoonline.com/video/?vid=279944



Obvious hypocrisy, he is realer than real as long as he is saying things that they agree with, but then when he say's something they do not agree with, he is not real? That is some B/S

vid # 3 http://www.logoonline.com/video/?vid=278148


In this video, it becomes clear that they will not leave him alone. They are afraid as they say that he will set them back in the struggle. Set them back? Setting them back is what makes the vast majority of gay people set in motion their propaganda. They will even go to the point of censoring one of their own kind. Gay people are just as corrupt as anyone else.


http://www.logoonline.com/video/?vid=275852

Last edited by Astrologer4U; 02-08-2009 at 09:13 PM.
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  #45  
Unread 02-08-2009, 08:46 PM
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

I am going a bit off topic.... just a bit.

This thread is showing plenty of people that are passionate about the want of human rights. Looking at the number of viewings, there is also a silent majority watching this play out.

Get involved!! The world is run by those who show up.

If you are in the United States, you can contact your country political party and inquire about their GLBT clubs; in the Republican Party, the Log Cabin Republicans and in the Democratic Party, the Stonewall Democrats.

These are all important human rights and the perfect place to channel you passions.

TK

This post is going to be so deleted, isn't it?
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Unread 02-08-2009, 09:43 PM
gaer gaer is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrologer4U
Conesensual is not the same as non consentual now is it?
Of course not. But I don't recall anyone saying it is.
Quote:
You made your choice to have consensual sex understanding that being out with your sexuality would bring you certain ridicule that you could handle, or are you in the closet?
Granted, your questions was not addressed to me, but do you think that people are "out" deserve a "certain ridicule"?
Quote:
Boys who are molested did not make the choice to be molested.
We all know that. I don't know why you keep repeating this. No one here is defending child molesters.
Quote:
That 1 out of 10 who was molested and does not become a gay adult male, is struggling with what society say's about another man who has been ******* by another man. He feels as though he has been robbed of his manhood. He is struggling with the little boy inside of him plus the man he so desperately wants to be, but does not know how to be because he was sexually and emotionally robbed as a child. This particular man is not fit for another man or a woman.
First, I'd like to see where you get your "1 out of 10" figure from. You assert that 9 or 10 boys who are molested "become adult gay males". This does not match any statistics or information I've read about. My understanding is that all children, boys and girls, who are molested face terrible psychological obstacles later in life. The issue is not whether they come to think of themselves as gay or straight. The issue is whether or not they are ever able to feel whole, to get past the enormous damage that has been done to them. By the way, you have chosen to focus on boys who are molested. You are totally ignoring the fact that the same horrible damage is done to little girls. Pedophiles are fixated on children. They are not interested in adults.
Quote:
I chose my sexuality.
Let me get this straight: are you saying that you can control and always have been able to control who you are attracted to? If so, you are the first adult I've ever met who has made that claim. Now, if you are saying that you have control over how you act on your feelings, that is a different thing.
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Unread 02-08-2009, 10:28 PM
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

I think Gaer answered it better than I ever could have.
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  #48  
Unread 02-08-2009, 11:03 PM
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
Conesensual is not the same as non consentual now is it? You made your choice to have consensual sex understanding that being out with your sexuality would bring you certain ridicule that you could handle, or are you in the closet?

Boys who are molested did not make the choice to be molested. That 1 out of 10 who was molested and does not become a gay adult male, is struggling with what society say's about another man who has been ******* by another man. He feels as though he has been robbed of his manhood. He is struggling with the little boy inside of him plus the man he so desperately wants to be, but does not know how to be because he was sexually and emotionally robbed as a child. This particular man is not fit for another man or a woman.
I think I understand what you're trying to say, A4U. You're saying that boys who are molested have a "reason" to be gay, but anyone else who ends up gay is because they chose it.

I understand, but I totally disagree.

Quote:
I chose my sexuality.
How did you decide? Did you weigh pros and cons? I'm curious...
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  #49  
Unread 02-09-2009, 06:08 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

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Originally Posted by gaer
Of course not. But I don't recall anyone saying it is.

You don't recall because the question was not for you. Therefore, there is nothing for *you* to recall.

Granted, your questions was not addressed to me, but do you think that people are "out" deserve a "certain ridicule"?

Like you told me, you don't recall a question that was directed at someone else. Well, you are directing this question at me so my response to you will be legitimate. Here is my response... I don't ever recall telling you or anyone else, not even did I imply that gay people who are in, or out of the closet, deserve any kind of ridicule. You see, that is your problem as well as other gay peoples problem, not all gay people I must add. If a person goes against what you believe, you assume that they want to ridicule or set you back in the gay struggle. I happen to very much so be a peoples person, I just love people period and I like and respect different people from all walks of life. Just because I don't agree with people does not mean that deep down I wish them to be ridiculed.

We all know that. I don't know why you keep repeating this. No one here is defending child molesters.

Of course not but that was not the point. You would not know or understand the point because my post was not to you. Due to your emotions, you just butted in on a conversation which would have been alright if you were responding in a way that didn't make it obvious, that you really had nothing to contribute to the conversation taking place between two people.

First, I'd like to see where you get your "1 out of 10" figure from. You assert that 9 or 10 boys who are molested "become adult gay males".

I can go and dig up your statistics but no one has responded to the videos I dug up. I won't be wasting my time to go and dig up stuff if people will just over look them because I have proved people wrong. Kai said that he did not believe that gay people come down on other gay people for saying that they were born gay, I proved that to be wrong but no one is willing to admit to that. I am not here to play games, if I show proof which was requested, I should get a decent response to that. You guys don't over look things that look to be in your favor. That just let's me know that it is all about how you guys feel, not about the truth being told.

This does not match any statistics or information I've read about.

I don't think you would look for those kinds of statistics because they are not favorable to your cause...

My understanding is that all children, boys and girls, who are molested face terrible psychological obstacles later in life. The issue is not whether they come to think of themselves as gay or straight. The issue is whether or not they are ever able to feel whole, to get past the enormous damage that has been done to them.

While they are going through all of that, for the most part, they do not go celibate.

By the way, you have chosen to focus on boys who are molested. You are totally ignoring the fact that the same horrible damage is done to little girls.

Little girls are affected much differently than boys because society promotes direct sympothy on girls who have been molested while they promote indirect ridicule on boys who have been molested. Due to this, the affects of molestation on the two different sexes don't have the same results. While there are some girls who will become gay adults due to child molestation, most of the time the girls develop a tendancy to go back and forth between male and females. Most of the girls develop into adult bi sexual females, or they become involved in dysnfunctional heterosexual relationships.


Pedophiles are fixated on children. They are not interested in adults.

So what is your point, you are not telling me anything I don't know. All you are trying to do in this instance, is push that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same. If you really believe that, why do you need to keep saying it? No one ever implied that the two were the same? However, we do know that the Romans and the Greeks practiced pedophilia on little boys and for them, that was normal. Many of those little Roman and Greek boys grew up to desire men and that is no secret.

Let me get this straight: are you saying that you can control and always have been able to control who you are attracted to? If so, you are the first adult I've ever met who has made that claim. Now, if you are saying that you have control over how you act on your feelings, that is a different thing.
Of course I control who I am attracted to. Would you ask that same question to someone who is Bi sexual? You and the guy in the video want to try and make a differance between feelings and actions but let me tell you something, the only differance between feelings and actions is timing. If you you desire to drink and you drink to get drunk, at those times that you acted out your desire to drink into drunkness, you were an alchoholic but if you stop drinking and never drink again, you are no longer an alchoholic. That logic can be applied to anything. Your actions determind who you are at the moment of your action and your feelings drive your actions. Astrologically speaking, like the moon changes so does feelings.

Last edited by Astrologer4U; 02-09-2009 at 06:16 AM.
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  #50  
Unread 02-09-2009, 06:17 AM
Astrologer4U Astrologer4U is offline
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Re: non-astrological discussion of homosexuality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
I think Gaer answered it better than I ever could have.
You mean gaer helped get you off the hook?
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