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Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


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  #1  
Unread 10-24-2018, 05:47 AM
Hiranmay Hiranmay is offline
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What about house systems?

Thank you for the welcome, waybread and greybeard!

I am trying to understand the logic behind the house systems, but my head is about to explode. It is really hard to get a good grip at it. I think the reason why I went back to using placidus is a feeling that its a better match, at least when I am looking at natal charts and transits. I have been looking mostly at my own, but also some of my friends. The trigger was a friends chart. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was placements of planets which changed from 4th to 5th house. She has a bad relationship with her mother, and when the planets changed house the 'cookbook' said she looked up to her mother, or something like that. She resisted that strongly.

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  #2  
Unread 10-24-2018, 09:37 AM
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Re: Full moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiranmay View Post

Hey everyone!
I am exploring my interest for astrology again.
It has been a pastime for many years.
Hoping to learn more with this forum
and stay interested for a longer duration.
I am male, passed 40 years, and living in the high north.
The houses in my chart are
big and small with placidus house system.
I have tried to look into using equal houses, but
I am back with placidus again now.
keep in mind that House location of a natal planet can change,
dependent on the house system chosen
easily verify at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page
fourteen of the more popular house systems currently in use are available options
Placidus is simply the default
to view for yourself how that works in practice create your natal chart
using WHOLE SIGN HOUSES option

then
compare with the same natal chart using the Placidus option
Whole Sign House ascendant sign becomes the whole first house
and the other houses follow.
The ASCENDANT POINT ITSELF can then fall anywhere in the first house
and
MIDHEAVEN POINT anywhere in the upper half of the chart
There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart"
into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains
represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable.
A planet in the SIGN of Aries
was also a planet in the HOUSE of Aries
so that in effect houses as we know them today did not exist
Artificial divisions now known as houses
were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus
to measure strength "points" in the horoscope
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD were construed
or confused
as means of dividing the birth chart.

The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites
were definite power points
or areas of intense focus
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant
The Whole Sign House system was used by the ancient Greeks
and the Hindus (who still use it today).
It is the oldest and simplest house system in existence
and immediately eliminates the awful mess
astrologers have made on the issue over the last 1300 years or so

PREVIOUS DISCUSSION ON THIS TOPIC IS CONSIDERABLE
AND INCLUDES:

WHOLE SIGNS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=42163

WHOLE SIGN OR PLACIDUS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=39669

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiranmay View Post

Learning a bit more about house systems
is what made me come here,
among many other reasons ofcourse.
In time I hope to be able to contribute
and give good insights to this forum.
Hey Hiranmay welcome

some navigation tips:
our TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY ONLY board
at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...splay.php?f=92


our CHINESE ASTROLOGY BOARD
is at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=88

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FREE online pdf
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interesting discussion http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...d.php?t=112883

and another http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=80531


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members are encouraged to discuss interpreting their own charts to learn by practice
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these are instructions
HOW TO ATTACH A CHART TO YOUR POST ON THE FORUM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwadm

DESKTOP
1) Once you generate the chart image using your favourite website, copy the image address

2) Click on the Attachment icon (if you don't see it, select 'Advanced' posting first)

3) New window will open, paste the image address, click Upload button, close the window

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=118441

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12126
Extended Chart Selecton Page at astro.com has options
to choose
from amongst the fourteen currently most popular house systems in use

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/index.php

Our GENERAL NATAL ASTROLOGY board
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  #3  
Unread 10-24-2018, 01:32 PM
Hiranmay Hiranmay is offline
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Re: What about house systems?

It is a very interesting topic. I am going to explore the changes of planets in my natal chart, according to house position. Starting with comparing placidus and whole signs system. My moon and saturn changes from 12th to 1st house. Without much knowhow I think this change is quite radical? From the most selfless house to the most egotistic.


Insights anyone?
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  #4  
Unread 10-24-2018, 02:07 PM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiranmay View Post

It is a very interesting topic.
I am going to explore the changes of planets in my natal chart, according to house position.
Starting with comparing placidus and whole signs system.

My moon and saturn changes from 12th to 1st house.

Without much knowhow I think this change is quite radical?
From the most selfless house to the most egotistic.

Insights anyone?
exploring sign ruler locations of Moon and Saturn is useful
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post




Cusps:Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts), but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp": it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword

- so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something, and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";

now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT

-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses-each house-that is the "cusp" of each house-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century - this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign-it worked better (FOR ME)

I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago: only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners-to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...
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  #5  
Unread 10-24-2018, 02:21 PM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiranmay View Post
It is a very interesting topic. I am going to explore the changes of planets in my natal chart, according to house position. Starting with comparing placidus and whole signs system. My moon and saturn changes from 12th to 1st house. Without much knowhow I think this change is quite radical? From the most selfless house to the most egotistic.


Insights anyone?
I really don't have insights, but I have questions too! A similar thing happens in my chart when I use whole houses. Venus moves from the 12th house to the 1st house, and sun moves from the 1st to the 2nd. Venus is my chart ruler, and sun is obviously important, so it's a completely different person being described.

I've mostly used Placidus, and I've noticed that I'm attached to my chart in that system. Seeing it cast in whole house annoys me, which is exactly why I think I should probably study it. I don't want my knowledge of my natal chart subconsciously directing my behavior because I feel the need to prove it right.
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  #6  
Unread 10-24-2018, 02:48 PM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchyone View Post
I really don't have insights, but I have questions too! A similar thing happens in my chart when I use whole houses. Venus moves from the 12th house to the 1st house, and sun moves from the 1st to the 2nd. Venus is my chart ruler, and sun is obviously important, so it's a completely different person being described.

I've mostly used Placidus, and I've noticed that I'm attached to my chart in that system. Seeing it cast in whole house annoys me, which is exactly why I think I should probably study it. I don't want my knowledge of my natal chart subconsciously directing my behavior because I feel the need to prove it right.
Keep in mind that a natal chart requires a reliable time of birth
for example from medical records or birthcertificate
HOWEVER
human error as well as timepieces being fast/slow
and also birthtimes being recorded hours after the event
and therefore estimated
makes even official medical records unreliable
as has been previously discussed on our forum
and so
there are numerous rectification methods
__________________
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  #7  
Unread 10-24-2018, 02:58 PM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Keep in mind that a natal chart requires a reliable time of birth
for example from medical records or birthcertificate
HOWEVER
human error as well as timepieces being fast/slow
and also birthtimes being recorded hours after the event
and therefore estimated
makes even official medical records unreliable
as has been previously discussed on our forum
and so
there are numerous rectification methods
The birth time on my birth certification was calculated to the minute. Of course, I don't know if someone might have made an error in recording it. Do you recommend everyone go through a rectification?

Even with a perfect time of birth recorded, there will always be some people with different 12th/1st house placements based on which house system they use, won't there?

What house system do you use?
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  #8  
Unread 10-24-2018, 03:10 PM
Hiranmay Hiranmay is offline
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Re: What about house systems?

Looking at the ruler of my 1st house (sun in pisces) it does make more sense. I guess my escapism could also come from that. This is the most particular description from the 12th house that I feel every now and then.
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Unread 10-24-2018, 03:48 PM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchyone View Post

The birth time on my birth certification was calculated to the minute.

Of course, I don't know if someone might have made an error in recording it.

Do you recommend everyone go through a rectification?
for those reasons, it is astrological commonsense
to do a basic rectification
previous detailed discussion, plus many tips of various methodologies
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...ad.php?t=51626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchyone View Post

Even with a perfect time of birth recorded, there will always be some people
with different 12th/1st house placements
based on which house system they use, won't there?
"Perfect birth times" are rare
perhaps non-existent
and
there are millions of natal charts
where planets "change house" when house system changes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchyone View Post

What house system do you use?
I use WHOLE SIGNS for HELLENISTIC
and

ALCABITIUS for Medieval traditional methods
I recommend Rumen Kolevs software http://www.babylonianastrology.com/i...hk=1&Itemid=52
I use PORPHYRIUS MAGUS

our member kaktuzz however
generously provides FREE traditional natal online chart calculation
https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/traditional-astrology

thread discussion at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=111980
__________________
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Unread 10-24-2018, 05:03 PM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
for those reasons, it is astrological commonsense
to do a basic rectification
previous detailed discussion, plus many tips of various methodologies
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...ad.php?t=51626

"Perfect birth times" are rare
perhaps non-existent
and
there are millions of natal charts
where planets "change house" when house system changes

I use WHOLE SIGNS for HELLENISTIC
and

ALCABITIUS for Medieval traditional methods
I recommend Rumen Kolevs software http://www.babylonianastrology.com/i...hk=1&Itemid=52
I use PORPHYRIUS MAGUS

our member kaktuzz however
generously provides FREE traditional natal online chart calculation
https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/traditional-astrology

thread discussion at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=111980
Just for the sake of it, I stuck some different birth times in the astro.com calculator to see what would happen. The time would have to be at least 6 minutes early for anything to change houses--my rising would move into Gemini. It would have to be at least 20 minutes late to significantly move anything--north node would move into the 8th house from the 7th. My mother was meticulous about keeping notes on my milestones in my "baby book," and she was awake and alert with family in the room, so I seriously doubt my time could be off by more than a minute or two in either direction.

Anyway, I'm not sure how this relates to house system.
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Unread 10-24-2018, 06:56 PM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchyone View Post
Just for the sake of it, I stuck some different birth times in the astro.com calculator to see what would happen. The time would have to be at least 6 minutes early for anything to change houses--my rising would move into Gemini. It would have to be at least 20 minutes late to significantly move anything--north node would move into the 8th house from the 7th. My mother was meticulous about keeping notes on my milestones in my "baby book," and she was awake and alert with family in the room, so I seriously doubt my time could be off by more than a minute or two in either direction.

Anyway, I'm not sure how this relates to house system.
ascendant is dependent on time of birth
ascendant determines houses
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Unread 10-24-2018, 07:19 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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JUPASC is our friendly neighborhood never-take-no-for-an-answer Whole Sign House System salesman. Don't pay him no nevermind.

I use Placidus.

Ii have tested Whole Sign over the past few years and it's a good system. But I cut my teeth on Placidus, I know how it works, and it offers interceptions and other complications that enhance the chart.

The houses, as is true of the art of astrology itself, are a creation of man's mind. This gives us some liberty in our choice of the systems we wish to use.

Nice thing is that you can always make a change.
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  #13  
Unread 10-24-2018, 08:04 PM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

JUPASC is our friendly neighborhood never-take-no-for-an-answer
Whole Sign House System salesman.
Don't pay him no nevermind.
I use Placidus.
Ii have tested Whole Sign over the past few years and it's a good system. But I cut my teeth on Placidus, I know how it works, and it offers interceptions and other complications that enhance the chart.
The houses, as is true of the art of astrology itself, are a creation of man's mind. This gives us some liberty in our choice of the systems we wish to use.
Nice thing is that you can always make a change.
dr.farr has studied astrology for more than fifty years
dr. farr comments as follows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
- it worked better
(FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing
at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me
(ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above,
does it work
(producing delineations and predicitions)
better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me,
so I switched;
but I am not going to try
to convince anyone of anything about it,
except for beginners
- to you who might just be starting out,
I would say:
try whole sign first,
and see how well it might work for you...
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #14  
Unread 10-25-2018, 12:57 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
dr.farr has studied astrology for more than fifty years
dr. farr comments as follows:

I fully agree with dr. farr.
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Unread 10-25-2018, 10:43 AM
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Re: What about house systems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

I fully agree with dr. farr.
many do
dr. farr uses WHOLE SIGN HOUSES
having switched
after many decades of using Placidus
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  #16  
Unread 10-26-2018, 03:03 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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I know about dr farr. It was because of him that I investigated whole sign. Thanks.

PS--I've heard rumors that he pays you 6% for every set of Whole Sign Houses you sell to some Unsuspecting Novice. I suppose we can expect you to categorically deny these allegations.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-26-2018 at 03:12 AM.
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