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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.


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Unread 07-15-2008, 07:36 PM
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Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

I thought I would post this chart, as it's interesting and it falls into what Wintersprite was discussing in the Techniques section.

Let's call this question, "Will I have an affair with Claude?". The querent, a married friend of mine (I'll call her Betty), recently met someone at a restaurant who really floats her boat. He is from another country, and she knows very little about him other than that she would like to make a 'toy boy' out of him. He apparently is quite interested in her as well, she surmised, from his body language, etc. in the brief time they were in contact.

So. She is Jupiter and he is Mercury. Because this is a relationship question, I'll explore Frawley's technique of also assigning Venus to her (plus the Moon, since she's the querent) and the Sun for 'Claude', as the natural ruler of men in their prime.

The first thing I noticed is that the receptions are uneven, and very curious. Claude, as Mercury and the Sun, is in the sign of Jupiter's exaltation and in the Moon's domicile. So we can surmise that Claude is indeed very interested in Betty. Infatuated, in fact. Betty, on the other hand: Venus is in Leo, so we can say that Betty's 'animal side' is interested in Claude. The Moon is in Jupiter's sign: Betty's emotions are wrapped up in herself. Jupiter, her ruler, is retrograde and in Capricorn, ruled by Saturn. So actually, it seems Betty is more interested in herself than in Claude...this makes sense as Betty isn't interested in a hot and heavy love affair; she only wants a booty call with Claude.

The Moon applies by trine to Venus; and since Venus also rules, in this chart, the 5th house of sex and pleasure, I surmised that it is quite possible that Betty and Claude will soon be doing more than fine dining, especially with both the Moon and Venus in secret and illicit houses. Certainly it expresses Betty's intention, if nothing else.

BUT: This is what is interesting. Betty is married. I am unsure whether Claude is or not; she thought he wasn't, but you never know.

Mercury makes an aspect to Saturn, from the sign of Saturn's detriment. Saturn is in the sign of Mercury's domicile.

Jupiter, (Betty) is in Saturn's domicile. Who is Saturn?

It is very highly likely that Saturn is Betty's husband; or possibly, Claude's wife. Saturn is often assigned to the cuckolded spouse, the spoilsport of hanky-panky fun. Note Mercury's dislike of Saturn, while loving Jupiter/Moon so very much, and Jupiter, in such a weak state, is in Saturn's domicile. Saturn, and then Mars, will come in-between Betty and Claude, prohibiting the opposition from perfecting! I wonder if it isn't actually Claude's wife, since Saturn sits in the 9th house of 'foreign places': Claude is, of course, a foreigner, and Mercury goes to meet Saturn, although he doesn't like it much.

Although there is definitely interest on Claude's part, someone or someones will prevent the affair from happening, as Mars AND Saturn are in the way.

So in this chart, at least, the 'third party planet' is a prohibition, it seems, because Mars/Jupiter unite, and Mercury/Saturn unite, and Jupiter/Mercury just can't get it together!

It also seems that I am still a technological moron, because I can't get a readable image up! The details for those who want to look, are:

Sunday, 13th July 2008
18:26 pm
Cambridge, England

AG


Last edited by archergirl; 07-15-2008 at 08:10 PM.
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Unread 07-15-2008, 08:24 PM
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Re: Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

AG,

you should write a book...that was hilarious.........and bioody informative too.....lol
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Unread 07-16-2008, 10:20 AM
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Re: Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

I read this and thought the same thing, book needed!

Thanks AG, very helpful.

NR
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chart: http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk27/Jo75Tiger/mewithstarsasteroids.gif
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Unread 07-16-2008, 10:59 AM
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Re: Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

AG thanks for this treaty! Good dilineation of people liking one another which is often asked for and always tedious work, figuring it out. I am glad you gave the details of the chart. I also am really bad at uploading. It only works from my other laptop sometimes. Let me see what I can do.
Cheers, Star.
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Unread 07-16-2008, 12:11 PM
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Re: Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

AG,

I am always struggling with Photobucket because I just dont understand how it all works. I finally managed to resize it to one size bigger than medium, which is 240 - 260 or something like that. This one is size 680 (about). So maybe if you enlarge your picture this way, you will get it. I wished there was a quicker way to upload pictures. Arian Mavericks upload feature works with me only when I upload a photograph. If I want to upload a chart, then it gives me the message: This is not an image. Dont understand that.
It would be much easier to upload a chart from my desktop, then have it in "my images" and then from there copy & paste in posts. Must look into it again.
Cheers, STarlink
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Unread 07-16-2008, 12:29 PM
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Re: Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

OK, the chart. She is Jupiter, he is Mercury and they will be together through an opposition. Because it is an opposition, we can deduct that it will not be easy for them to maintain an affair and should they have it, than she would probably be sorry she ever started it. So from that point of view alone, it is not favorable. Indeed Mercury sextiles Saturn, then Mars, so this is prohibition and means, no, they will not have an affair because Saturn and Mars are in the way. Strange thing I find is the fact that there is no MR between Mercury and Saturn, but there is one between Mars and Mercury. Who is Mars? Mars is in term of Venus and in Exaltation of Mercury, so could there be another women? he has something with as well, which prevents him from having an affair with Betty? maybe someone from his work? (Mars rules his 10th) or is his status more important to him than having an affair and risking to be found out about it? It could also be Betty's husband of course, as Mars rules her 4th house.It could be both his wife (Saturn) and her husband (Mars) who come in between.

Wondering..... STarlink
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Unread 07-16-2008, 09:22 PM
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Re: Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Help, for when you ladies post a chart:

I know you ladies use your own software, but for posting sake, perhaps just use astrodienst....at astrodienst go to the extended chart drawing and choose chart size of 63%......click on the actual chart twice.....and then store to your computer....

then when you are posting here at aw.......go to the advanced options on your post....scroll down and open file management.....

browse your computer.....store and upload chart......shouldnt take you more than 4 mins.

hope it helps
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Unread 07-16-2008, 09:25 PM
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Arrow CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Hi AG,

Made Betty's affair mine, so here's the chart in the attachment

Hope this one's more legible.

Ta ta
aquarius7000
Attached Images
File Type: gif Betty's affair.gif (29.0 KB, 24 views)
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Unread 07-17-2008, 08:42 AM
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Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

OH THANKS AQUARIUS!! I am awful at this posting charts, but HAVE to learn how to do it right. I am really disgusted with myself, first the chart was too small, now it is foggy, AHH, how is this possible?! I have done it twice before and it worked fine, and now this. Sorry guys!

AND THANKS to you as well Jupiter. I never did it that way, from Astrodienst. Will give it a try. I wished we had a page somewhere in this forum where we could do these exercises, you know, posting, then when it is wrong, delete it, try again and so forth. Maybe we should create one

Starlink
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Unread 07-18-2008, 02:56 AM
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Smile Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Quote:
Originally Posted by starlink
OH THANKS AQUARIUS!! I am awful at this posting charts, but HAVE to learn how to do it right.
No problem at all, and very sweet of you to thank me Star; for a moment, though, I though the post was from AG, as I (gladly) did the chart on the basis of the data I found in her post.

Hope you get lots of feedback.

Best
aquarius7000
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Unread 07-18-2008, 11:52 AM
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Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

I thanked you for putting up a readable chart. I still seem to have mega problems and will delete that awful one of mine NOW. If I have a quiet moment I am going to try posting charts, so if you see them popping up and being deleted again because they again were unreadable, you know what I am doing,ha ha!!
Starlink
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Last edited by starlink; 07-21-2008 at 05:00 AM.
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Unread 07-20-2008, 08:12 PM
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Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Hmm.. a question here, everyone. Why did everyone choose Mercury to signify the questited? Shouldn't Mercury signify her husband and Saturn, being the ruler of the 5th, signify the affair guy? I mean, shouldn't the 7th (marriage) be left for the currently committed relationship and the 5th (fun and sex) for toy boys?
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Last edited by Summery Joy; 07-20-2008 at 08:14 PM.
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Unread 07-21-2008, 05:06 AM
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Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Quote:
She is Jupiter and he is Mercury. Because this is a relationship question,
This is what AG mentioned above. Dont forget, he is not her toyboy yet and maybe never will be. For the moment he is just "the other" guy.

Quote:
Shouldn't Mercury signify her husband
The question is not about the husband, it is about the "maybe relationship " with this guy, so we only concentrate on him. At least this is how I see it. Hope I am right, but I can see what you mean.

Cheers, Starlink
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Unread 07-21-2008, 11:34 PM
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Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Starlink, thanks for you comments. I do have to disagree with you though. Picking the 7th simply because it's a relationship question doesn't seem right to me. It's too Frawley for my taste. I disagree with Frawley on many issues. This is one of them.

And just because the question is not about the husband does not mean that he should be completely ignored. He could end up being a reason why the querent may refrain from having the affair. Ignoring him would limit the scope of the answer.

This is a pretty cool thread though. I know I could learn a lot about this particular issue. I don't see a lot of horaries like this one. I think I will work on it using my 5th house theory and post it here so that I could compare to the outcome.

AG, please keep us posted
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Unread 07-22-2008, 07:27 AM
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Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Hi Sorehearted, sure, Frawley is not "the one and only" and there are also some things I dont totally agree with (like the intercepted houses not having meaning. In my opinion and experience I had working with them, they have!) and I always am for individual thinking and not cookbook following, so you are totally entitled to your thoughts about the 7th house.

Quote:
And just because the question is not about the husband does not mean that he should be completely ignored. He could end up being a reason why the querent may refrain from having the affair.
You are right of course. I actually did it because I just wanted to concentrate at the main issue at hand. We could leave Mercury as the relationship with the guy and Saturn as her husband (is he older than this one?) and then we see that in 5 somethings Moon (her co-sign.) will square Saturn, showing some problems with him. Moon is fast and this could be maybe 5 days of weeks. Moon is in 12, so she might think she is working here at her own self-undoing, thinking about difficulties she could have with hubby and refrain from continuing with the whole affair? Just a thought. I feel like taking Saturn as her husband because she , Jupiter, is in his sign, in fall. She is in his power but not happy, maybe staying with him for financial or security reasons (Jup. in the 2nd).

Cheers, Star.
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Unread 07-24-2008, 12:46 PM
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Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Ok. Here’s my take.

Sagittarius rises. Quite descriptive since Sag is a hunter, and that is exactly the querent in this situation. She is signified by Jupiter Rx in Capricorn in the 2nd house.

Jupiter is usually a benefic, but not in this chart. It is an accidental malefic because of the Rx motion. Also, it shows the querent as quite unhappy being is such major essential detriment (fall). It does, however, have some essential dignity by being in its own term. I don’t want to jump into conclusions about the essential detriment and dignity at this point.

Jupiter has some pretty good accidental dignity being in the 2nd house. While essential dignity or detriment shows feelings and intensions, accidental dignity and detriment are used to measure the power to act. The querent has much power to act.

The quesited is signified by Venus as I have chosen the 5th to rule him. Venus is in Leo in the 8th house. Venus is essentially peregrine and has major accidental detriment being in the 8th. Now, I don’t have any material evidence to support this theory, but in my experience, I have always noticed that a significator in the 8th means that the person it signifies is being used. Also, when Venus signifies the man, I’ve noticed that he is usually a “pretty boy” and/or quite a womanizer, sweet talking and smooth.

Now, I don’t want to go on without seeing where the husband stands. He is signified by Mercury in Cancer in the 7th house. Like Jupiter, Mercury is essentially in detriment, but it has the highest accidental dignity of all significators being angular. He’s what is very interesting though. Jupiter receives Mercury by exaltation. The querent, deep down, loves her husband very much despite how unhappy she may be in the marriage. He, on the other hand, seems to be quite selfish, or consumed in his own world and not paying attention to her.

It’s interesting how Saturn is involved being the cause of detriment of the querent while that of the husband applies to it. I don’t usually do that, but I’m tempted to see what it signifies. It rules the 2nd house in the querent’s chart and the 8th in the turned chart of the husband. It seems that their problems root down some other security issue. I don’t know if that’s money or diminished support between the couple.

So, the circumstances are all clear. Now let’s see if any actions will take place. I don’t see any application, TOL or COL between Jupiter and Venus. That should be a no. There is an application between the Moon and Venus though. Unlike many astrologers, I don’t use the Moon to signify the querent. I use to signify the whole situation. To me, this application doesn’t say, “yes, she will have the affair”, but it does say that she could if she wanted to.

Jupiter is Rx. Rx motion is, by definition, opposite to natural. And Rx motion doesn’t stay forever. It seems to me the querent will change her mind. This is also backed up by the Moon being in a mutable sign. Jupiter being so out of character in this chart tells me that the querent is not that type of woman. She is not a cheater. And judging by Jupiter receiving Mercury while Mercury seems so self-consumed, I say she is probably not very secure in the marriage and just wants some positive attention. She might be getting it from the Venus-like man.

I give it a no. The querent could have the affair, but eventually she will choose not to.
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Unread 07-24-2008, 12:46 PM
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Re: CHART to Translation or Prohibition: The 'Affair' Affair

Ok. Hereís my take.

Sagittarius rises. Quite descriptive since Sag is a hunter, and that is exactly the querent in this situation. She is signified by Jupiter Rx in Capricorn in the 2nd house.

Jupiter is usually a benefic, but not in this chart. It is an accidental malefic because of the Rx motion. Also, it shows the querent as quite unhappy being is such major essential detriment (fall). It does, however, have some essential dignity by being in its own term. I donít want to jump into conclusions about the essential detriment and dignity at this point.

Jupiter has some pretty good accidental dignity being in the 2nd house. While essential dignity or detriment shows feelings and intensions, accidental dignity and detriment are used to measure the power to act. The querent has much power to act.

The quesited is signified by Venus as I have chosen the 5th to rule him. Venus is in Leo in the 8th house. Venus is essentially peregrine and has major accidental detriment being in the 8th. Now, I donít have any material evidence to support this theory, but in my experience, I have always noticed that a significator in the 8th means that the person it signifies is being used. Also, when Venus signifies the man, Iíve noticed that he is usually a ďpretty boyĒ and/or quite a womanizer, sweet talking and smooth.

Now, I donít want to go on without seeing where the husband stands. He is signified by Mercury in Cancer in the 7th house. Like Jupiter, Mercury is essentially in detriment, but it has the highest accidental dignity of all significators being angular. Heís what is very interesting though. Jupiter receives Mercury by exaltation. The querent, deep down, loves her husband very much despite how unhappy she may be in the marriage. He, on the other hand, seems to be quite selfish, or consumed in his own world and not paying attention to her.

Itís interesting how Saturn is involved being the cause of detriment of the querent while that of the husband applies to it. I donít usually do that, but Iím tempted to see what it signifies. It rules the 2nd house in the querentís chart and the 8th in the turned chart of the husband. It seems that their problems root down some other security issue. I donít know if thatís money or diminished support between the couple.

So, the circumstances are all clear. Now letís see if any actions will take place. I donít see any application, TOL or COL between Jupiter and Venus. That should be a no. There is an application between the Moon and Venus though. Unlike many astrologers, I donít use the Moon to signify the querent. I use to signify the whole situation. To me, this application doesnít say, ďyes, she will have the affairĒ, but it does say that she could if she wanted to.

Jupiter is Rx. Rx motion is, by definition, opposite to natural. And Rx motion doesnít stay forever. It seems to me the querent will change her mind. This is also backed up by the Moon being in a mutable sign. Jupiter being so out of character in this chart tells me that the querent is not that type of woman. She is not a cheater. And judging by Jupiter receiving Mercury while Mercury seems so self-consumed, I say she is probably not very secure in the marriage and just wants some positive attention. She might be getting it from the Venus-like man.

I give it a no. The querent could have the affair, but eventually she will choose not to.
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