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  #226  
Unread 08-05-2020, 11:51 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

BURDEN of PROOF/BURDEN of DISPROOF.

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  #227  
Unread 08-05-2020, 11:58 PM
Alimal Alimal is offline
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
BURDEN of PROOF/BURDEN of DISPROOF.
Yeah, what I meant is that it's easier to see the four faces of the fixed signs in that mythological creature, than to claim that its mythological context is the actual reality. But in the end, both are just abstract hypotheses.
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  #228  
Unread 08-06-2020, 12:07 AM
Alimal Alimal is offline
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Just for the record, I'm not using Jup as co-Domiciled-ruler in Pisces, or Mars as co-Domiciled-ruler in Scorpio.

But I don't find those anywhere near as objectionable as Sat being considered co-Domiciled-ruler in Aquarius.
Personally I look at Saturn as the master of Ethics and Social Engineering. Which is perfectly what Aquarius tends toward, as I've observed in Aquarian people. Therefore its easy for me to see it as its ruler.

Scorpio embodies the cut-throat part of war, which is ruled by Mars.

Pisces is the youthful adventurer, like Sagittarius, again Jupiter.

So I'm not sure why you'd be against these rulerships.
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  #229  
Unread 08-06-2020, 02:13 AM
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aquarius7000 aquarius7000 is offline
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Well, some Mods have both Sat & Uran domiciled in Aquarius, and others, only Uran. We just don't stop at Sat for Sign-rulership, which is really what distinguishes the old from the new.
Huh? Not sure you got what I wrote and why I wrote it. I meant to show that you cannot exclude mention of Trad. Astro discussion here, which is what I gleaned from the mod's post. The title of the thread itself begs for Trad. discussion as part of this thread. The thread title is : "Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?"

I did not say that planetary rulership stopped at Sat, so don't understand the relevance of your comment there.
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  #230  
Unread 08-06-2020, 03:10 AM
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Opal Opal is offline
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Originally Posted by Alimal View Post
Yeah, what I meant is that it's easier to see the four faces of the fixed signs in that mythological creature, than to claim that its mythological context is the actual reality. But in the end, both are just abstract hypotheses.
Hypothesis of what?
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  #231  
Unread 08-06-2020, 03:32 AM
Alimal Alimal is offline
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Hypothesis of what?
A hypothesis to the subjected phenomena.
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  #232  
Unread 08-06-2020, 04:53 AM
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A hypothesis to the subjected phenomena.
What is the subjected phenomena of?
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  #233  
Unread 08-06-2020, 05:45 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Huh? Not sure you got what I wrote and why I wrote it. I meant to show that you cannot exclude mention of Trad. Astro discussion here, which is what I gleaned from the mod's post. The title of the thread itself begs for Trad. discussion as part of this thread. The thread title is : "Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?"

I did not say that planetary rulership stopped at Sat, so don't understand the relevance of your comment there.
But, that's explained using Mod alone. Some Mods use "pre-Outermosts" plus the Outermosts (Uran, Nep, & Plu) to "co-Domicile-rule" Aqua, Pisc, and Scorp. Others use the Outermosts as the sole Domicile-rulers of those three, along with Sat as sole Domiciled-ruler of Cap, Jup as sole Domicile-ruler of Sagit, and Mars as sole Domiciled-ruler of Aries.

ALL the planets are available to Mod as part of our astrological heritage, like the Elements, Modalities, and Sign-imagery.
Sorry, I was under the impression that some Trads use the Outermosts as "data-points" but not as Sign-rulers.
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  #234  
Unread 08-06-2020, 05:54 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Personally I look at Saturn as the master of Ethics and Social Engineering. Which is perfectly what Aquarius tends toward, as I've observed in Aquarian people. Therefore its easy for me to see it as its ruler.

Scorpio embodies the cut-throat part of war, which is ruled by Mars.

Pisces is the youthful adventurer, like Sagittarius, again Jupiter.

So I'm not sure why you'd be against these rulerships.

Well, I can see Mars sharing a Domicle-sign with Plu. And, I can see Jup sharing a Domicle-sign with Nep. But, no way I can see Sat and Uran sharing a Domicle-sign. Sat would try to cut Uran's genitals off!
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  #235  
Unread 08-06-2020, 06:46 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

Here's another way to look at it: Why do Sun, Moon, Mars and Jup each get a Domicle-sign all to themselves, and Merc and Venus each get TWO Domicile-signs all to themselves, but the Outermosts each have to SHARE their one Domicile-sign with a planet that has its OWN personal Domicile-sign?

Last edited by david starling; 08-06-2020 at 07:43 AM.
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  #236  
Unread 08-06-2020, 07:46 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

Can you imagine poor Nep trying to find at least one small corner of Pisces to call its own, with big ol' Jup constantly expanding ALL OVER the place?!

Last edited by david starling; 08-06-2020 at 07:48 AM.
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  #237  
Unread 08-06-2020, 11:00 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Well, I can see Mars sharing a Domicle-sign with Plu. And, I can see Jup sharing a Domicle-sign with Nep. But, no way I can see Sat and Uran sharing a Domicle-sign. Sat would try to cut Uran's genitals off!
That is disgusting, why would he try to do that?
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  #238  
Unread 08-06-2020, 12:06 PM
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That is disgusting, why would he try to do that?
Because that’s what the myths say he did before.
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  #239  
Unread 08-06-2020, 12:09 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Because that’s what the myths say he did before.
Where do these myths come from?
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  #240  
Unread 08-06-2020, 08:50 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Where do these myths come from?
From the distant Past. The Cronos/Saturn myth is allegorical, based on an intuitive understanding of the incompatibility of Saturn with the high Heavens. It's an inimical relationship, which is continued with Saturn/Satan as the enemy of Heaven in Roman/Catholic writings. The Greco-Roman prefix, Ouran/Uran means "of the Heavens". The Muse of astrology, for example, was the goddess of the Heavens,
"Ourania/Urania".

Saturn separates us from the Higher realms.

Last edited by david starling; 08-06-2020 at 09:03 PM.
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  #241  
Unread 08-06-2020, 10:53 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

Allegories aside:

Domicile-ruler.......Number of Domicile-signs

•Moon.............................1 ()
•Sun...............................1 ()
•Merc..............................2 (&)
•Venus............................2 (&)
•Mars..............................1 ()
•Jup................................1 ()
•Sat................................1 ()
•Uran..............................1 ()
•Nep................................1 ()
•Plu.................................1 ()

In Mod, these are ALL "full-fledged" Sign-rulers , each with sole Sign-rulership(s). There's no need to assign two different Domicile-rulers to any one Domicile-sign.

Last edited by david starling; 08-06-2020 at 11:18 PM.
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  #242  
Unread 08-06-2020, 11:50 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

Before the telescopic identification of Uran as a planet, rather than a faint star, and discovery of Nep and Plu, all 3 outside the orbit of Sat, the Moon and Sun, which transit only Direct, were Domiciled in one Sign each; whereas, the planets, which transit both Direct and Retro, were each Domiciled in 2 Signs.

As each new planet was identified, one Sign was taken from the last previously-known planet that still ruled 2 Signs, and given as Domicile to the new planet:

In standard Mod, the Signs are numbered 1 thru 12, beginning with Aries.
Sat was domiciled in both Signs 10 & 11. The higher-numbered Sign was taken from Sat and given as domicile to Uran.

Next, with Jup still domiciled in both Signs 9 & 12, the higher-numbered Sign went to Nep.

And, finally, with Mars still domiciled in both Signs 1 & 8, the higher-numbered Sign went to Plu.

That leaves the 2 innermost planets, which stay close to the Sun's transiting postion, and appear as separate Morning and Evening planets, to keep their 2 Domicile-signs each as was previously the case.

Last edited by david starling; 08-06-2020 at 11:56 PM.
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  #243  
Unread 08-07-2020, 12:10 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
From the distant Past. The Cronos/Saturn myth is allegorical, based on an intuitive understanding of the incompatibility of Saturn with the high Heavens. It's an inimical relationship, which is continued with Saturn/Satan as the enemy of Heaven in Roman/Catholic writings. The Greco-Roman prefix, Ouran/Uran means "of the Heavens". The Muse of astrology, for example, was the goddess of the Heavens,
"Ourania/Urania".

Saturn separates us from the Higher realms.
David, the Greeks and the Romans weren't modern day hippies, but the majority of them were fundamentalist believers in their mythology and idolatry. Atheism was a crime recorded many times punished by death.

You didn't really answer how can a human being come up with such a story. The key for me personally is the biblical account of Noah's sons, Bavel and the existence of intelligent supernatural beings (not to be confused with aliens).

Last edited by petosiris; 08-07-2020 at 12:15 AM.
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  #244  
Unread 08-07-2020, 12:16 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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David, the Greeks and the Romans weren't modern day hippies, but the majority of them were fundamentalist believers in their mythology and idolatry. Atheism was a crime recorded many times punished by death.

You didn't really answer how can a human being come up with such a story.
The Romans, far more so than Greeks, did, in fact, think in more allegorical terms about their gods and goddesses. Punishing atheists sounds more like a Christian practice.

The human imagination is a wondrous sense by which to ascertain the nature of our mortal existence.
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  #245  
Unread 08-07-2020, 12:57 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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The Romans, far more so than Greeks, did, in fact, think in more allegorical terms about their gods and goddesses. Punishing atheists sounds more like a Christian practice.

The human imagination is a wondrous sense by which to ascertain the nature of our mortal existence.
There are tens of thousands of recorded cases of Christians being martyred everywhere in the Roman Empire for refusing to bring sacrifices to idols, the Diocletianic Persecution perhaps being the worst. Gentile Christians like Jews were labeled atheists, but did not enjoy the tolerance admitted to the later on account of their antiquity and political relationship.

There were Gentiles who knew the Word of God even without Judaism, and died for him, the most famous example being Socrates who was trialled on the charge that he was introducing new divinities, namely the Logos in opposition to the Athenian pantheon. The Athenian polis wasn't Christian.

How can a God being castrated by his own son be a wondrous sense of ascertaining the nature of our mortal existence? Why do you bring these outlandish ancient religious beliefs into a modern astrological discussion on whether Aquarius is ruled by one or two planets in the solar system?
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  #246  
Unread 08-07-2020, 02:11 AM
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Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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There are tens of thousands of recorded cases of Christians being martyred everywhere in the Roman Empire for refusing to bring sacrifices to idols, the Diocletianic Persecution perhaps being the worst. Gentile Christians like Jews were labeled atheists, but did not enjoy the tolerance admitted to the later on account of their antiquity and political relationship.

There were Gentiles who knew the Word of God even without Judaism, and died for him, the most famous example being Socrates who was trialled on the charge that he was introducing new divinities, namely the Logos in opposition to the Athenian pantheon. The Athenian polis wasn't Christian.

How can a God being castrated by his own son be a wondrous sense of ascertaining the nature of our mortal existence? Why do you bring these outlandish ancient religious beliefs into a modern astrological discussion on whether Aquarius is ruled by one or two planets in the solar system?
How did you miss learning mythology in school?

Myth, is wrongly named. It is knowledge that was put in story form, to enable humans to learn it, word of mouth, through the ages.

Over the many ages we have gone through, repeatedly, we use try to pass knowledge from past ages. Astrological knowledge. The knowledge of the Cosmos. The knowledge of God. The knowledge of the ages.

Do you see God as Uranus, for in myth it is Uranus whom is castrated by Saturn, his son. Earth/ Gaia is Saturn's mother.

Maybe you should expand your reading, having no knowledge of the past ages, through mythology, has you believing in a myth, of the age of Pisces.

Christians, have killed many people too. They are not innocent, or meek. Nor shall they inherit the earth.

The Ages will tick through, regardless, and, in time, the Age of Pisces will return, but, it will not be for a very long time.

Happy reading, myth is very interesting, and tangible to my mind.
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  #247  
Unread 08-07-2020, 05:01 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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Can you imagine poor Nep trying to find at least one small corner of Pisces to call its own, with big ol' Jup constantly expanding ALL OVER the place?!
C'mon Opal, this one's funny!
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  #248  
Unread 08-07-2020, 05:44 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Proof Aquarius is ruled by uranus AND Saturn?

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How did you miss learning mythology in school?

Myth, is wrongly named. It is knowledge that was put in story form, to enable humans to learn it, word of mouth, through the ages.

Over the many ages we have gone through, repeatedly, we use try to pass knowledge from past ages. Astrological knowledge. The knowledge of the Cosmos. The knowledge of God. The knowledge of the ages.

Do you see God as Uranus, for in myth it is Uranus whom is castrated by Saturn, his son. Earth/ Gaia is Saturn's mother.

Maybe you should expand your reading, having no knowledge of the past ages, through mythology, has you believing in a myth, of the age of Pisces.

Christians, have killed many people too. They are not innocent, or meek. Nor shall they inherit the earth.

The Ages will tick through, regardless, and, in time, the Age of Pisces will return, but, it will not be for a very long time.

Happy reading, myth is very interesting, and tangible to my mind.
In India, where Vedic sidereal astrology is most widely practiced, there is evidence of what should be expected from an astrological Age of Pisces.

The West doesn't reflect the sidereal Age of Pisces. For one thing, Western civilization as we know it is far too materialistic, antagonistic, and ambitious.

No real surprise that the Western, tropical Zodiac doesn't even have an age of Pisces. If you want an Age of Pisces, you have to switch from tropical to sidereal.

Last edited by david starling; 08-07-2020 at 05:53 AM.
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  #249  
Unread 08-07-2020, 09:45 AM
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Opal Opal is offline
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C'mon Opal, this one's funny!
In truth, I did belly laugh when I read it!

Neptune trying to get its deceptions out, buried in Jupiter’s expansion.
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  #250  
Unread 08-07-2020, 09:47 AM
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Opal Opal is offline
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In India, where Vedic sidereal astrology is most widely practiced, there is evidence of what should be expected from an astrological Age of Pisces.

The West doesn't reflect the sidereal Age of Pisces. For one thing, Western civilization as we know it is far too materialistic, antagonistic, and ambitious.

No real surprise that the Western, tropical Zodiac doesn't even have an age of Pisces. If you want an Age of Pisces, you have to switch from tropical to sidereal.
Very true.
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