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Modern Astrology For discussions on Modern Astrology only. (Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists. Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, and non-Ptolemaic aspects. The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.)


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  #1  
Unread 05-17-2020, 06:31 PM
LisaDiane LisaDiane is offline
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Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

Hi again, everyone!!! :-)

I'd love to hear what the practicing astrologers on here think about Virgo's planet being Chiron instead of Mercury...and why...??

I've read a few well-respected astrologers recently who said using Chiron for Virgo answered some questions and mis-analyses of charts that they had been working on, and I have to say that for the few charts I've looked at (myself and family) - looking at Chiron for prominent Virgo placements DID explain some things that didn't work when using Mercury!!! I find that fascinating!

I know Traditional Astrologers won't agree, but I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts about it...!!!

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Unread 05-18-2020, 09:36 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

Hi,
I think much depends upon HOW one considers Chiron to work upon an individual.
Virgo is very much the sign that, through applying mental logic, deals with everyday realism. Life can create situations that are sometimes unfathomable (Pisces!) and therefore become very 'inwardly hurtful' to many people in one way or another. Those seeking astrological advice have usually undergone such situations, so wouldn't it be logical to discover that Virgo and Chiron would be prominently placed in their charts?

Virgo is also the sign that dissects and analyses the physical body/feeling/mind and defines any imperfections in dealing with everyday circumstances. Dotting the i's or separating the chaff from the corn can show the reasons for any difficulties, whereby self-healing can occur. Once again, 'the healer' in Chiron's mythical functioning can be applied.

Chiron's orbit lies between Saturn, the physical manifestation on Earth, and Uranus, the enlightenment that comes from conscious awareness. I think of Chiron as 'the breakthrough' that can occur when the old Saturn situations can be looked at through other eyes, whereby 'a light goes on' that allows a future uninhibited by the past.

Virgo is still definitely ruled by a Mercury that applies logical thinking in a physical fashion. Yet Chiron could be co-ruler of the sign in which it is placed at birth because the aspects it makes could be, but not necessarily are, so recogniseable to the individual.

Recognition is said to be a 'how' of Sagittarius. There are those who would apply Chiron as co-ruler of the sign!!!

From; Chiron in 12th close conjunct Virgo Ascendant, Sagittarius I.C.
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  #3  
Unread 06-27-2020, 03:27 AM
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CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
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Arrow Re: Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

The ruling planets per astrological zodiac sign (ruler, co-ruler and exaltation):
Aries: Mars, Pluto, Sun.
Taurus: Venus, Mercury, Ceres.
Gemini: Mercury, Venus, Eris.
Cancer: Moon, Sun, Ceres.
Leo: Sun, Moon, Mars.
Virgo: Mercury, Jupiter, Ceres (naturally fit for a "feminine" or maternal sign).
Libra: Venus, Saturn, Eris.
Scorpio: Pluto, Mars, Uranus.
Sagittarius: Jupiter, Neptune, CHIRON (the wound healer fits perfectly here).
Capricorn: Saturn, Uranus, Pluto.
Aquarius: Uranus, Saturn, Eris.
Pisces: Neptune, Jupiter, Sedna.
Virgo not only squares Gemini, the sign squares Sagittarius, 3 of 4 mutable signs, the last one is Pisces.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 06-27-2020, 03:40 AM
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Re: Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

The real problem is that a sign ruler has real work to do in a horoscope. It's not just an affinity. A sign ruler has to work as a house cusp ruler (lord) in different kinds of horoscopes.

From a mythological perspective, dwarf planet Ceres is a better fit with Virgo, while Chiron (a centaur) would be a better fit with Sagittarius.
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Unread 06-27-2020, 02:04 PM
LisaDiane LisaDiane is offline
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Re: Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
The real problem is that a sign ruler has real work to do in a horoscope. It's not just an affinity. A sign ruler has to work as a house cusp ruler (lord) in different kinds of horoscopes.

From a mythological perspective, dwarf planet Ceres is a better fit with Virgo, while Chiron (a centaur) would be a better fit with Sagittarius.
THIS is an interesting point...but how does that fit with the belief of some that there are still two undiscovered planets for Taurus and Virgo...? HOW would they fit into houses and horoscopes the way you've explained...??
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Unread 06-27-2020, 02:08 PM
LisaDiane LisaDiane is offline
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Re: Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
The ruling planets per astrological zodiac sign (ruler, co-ruler and exaltation):
Aries: Mars, Pluto, Sun.
Taurus: Venus, Mercury, Ceres.
Gemini: Mercury, Venus, Eris.
Cancer: Moon, Sun, Ceres.
Leo: Sun, Moon, Mars.
Virgo: Mercury, Jupiter, Ceres (naturally fit for a "feminine" or maternal sign).
Libra: Venus, Saturn, Eris.
Scorpio: Pluto, Mars, Uranus.
Sagittarius: Jupiter, Neptune, CHIRON (the wound healer fits perfectly here).
Capricorn: Saturn, Uranus, Pluto.
Aquarius: Uranus, Saturn, Eris.
Pisces: Neptune, Jupiter, Sedna.
Virgo not only squares Gemini, the sign squares Sagittarius, 3 of 4 mutable signs, the last one is Pisces.
I don't think Chiron fits with Sag AT ALL...Sagittarius isn't a healer, it's a seeker, from my experience (I have Sag Ascendant).

These are all VERY interesting!!!

I was hoping to get some astrologer's experiences with interpreting charts using Chiron for Virgo, though, and whether it worked or not...what do you think of THAT...?
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Unread 06-27-2020, 07:33 PM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

I have too much trouble seeing Chiron as the ruler of any sign to assign it a sign (say that three times fast! ).

Every sign can be a healer. It's just a question of what kind. If we considered Chiron a sign ruler, then it would be domiciled in that sign and in fall in the opposite sign. But I can't see Chiron being in fall anywhere. The wounded healer archetype can come through plainly in any sign, if we're aware of all the things a wounded healer can be.

Virgo has a health focus, and a service focus. Archetypally, it's easy to see a picture of a professional healer in Virgo. Sagittarius doesn't bring that to mind so immediately, but Sagittarius is about learning and teaching, experimenting/experiencing, and seeing the big picture. A healer has to look at the big picture, putting it together out of all the information. That's what a doctor does when they make a diagnosis. That's what a therapist does when they provide insight to the client. That's what any kind of healer who treats the whole patient does.

Learning can also be healing. Immersive experiences, which Sagittarius lives for, can be healing ones. In that light, Chiron could be very Sagittarian. Consider that the mythological Chiron was also a great teacher.

But the Chiron message works well in all signs, not just those two. It could take a whole book to explore them all.
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Unread 06-28-2020, 04:45 AM
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Re: Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaDiane View Post
THIS is an interesting point...but how does that fit with the belief of some that there are still two undiscovered planets for Taurus and Virgo...? HOW would they fit into houses and horoscopes the way you've explained...??
Well, it's just a belief, is it not? The new planets will either be out there or they won't be. New planets would have to be trans-Neptunians, given the level of astronomy today.

The ancient Greek story of Demeter and Persephone (Roman Ceres and Prosperpine) got linked in ancient times to Virgo. Virgo was not associated with health and healing (as Chiron often is) but with agriculture.

Astronomers reclassified Ceres as a dwarf planet 2006, the same status they gave to Pluto.

Chiron is not actually a planet. As a heavenly body it is somewhere between a minor planet and a comet. I think it has real value in chart interpretation.

But again, what does it mean to say a heavenly body "rules" a sign? What would you do with that information in reading a horoscope? Does it work as a house cusp ruler?

Mythological Chiron was a centaur. His namesake Keiron (Greek) was a healer. The identity of the centaur of Sagittarius is a matter of some debate, but Chiron/Keiron is a likely candidate.

Also, the constellation Ophichus, located between the constellations Sagittarius and Scorpio, depicted as a tree, man, or staff with two twining snakes, These became the caduceus, or symbol of the medical profession.
[And no, there is no missing 13th sign. Most of the constellation Ophiuchus is off the ecliptic, with its portion of the sky today occupied by the signs Sagittarius and Scorpio.]

Modern astrology does tend to conflate houses and signs, such that the 6th house of illness and health and 6th sign are seen to have an affinity. Traditional astrology doesn't make this kind of connection.

I think the dwarf planet Eris has interpretive value. I see her as the Woman Warrior, as in Graeco-Roman mythology she was the warlike sister of Mars. As such, and having spent some time studying Eris, I think she has an affinity with Aries. But this needs much more study.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 07-21-2020, 01:03 AM
Ronlof Ronlof is offline
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Re: Virgo Ruled by Chiron...?

Chiron does not rule Virgo, Ceres does. There is no Virgo or 6th House energy in Chiron's Tropical or Draconic Discovery Chart, with the exception of the Draconic Gemini Ascendant falling in the Tropical 6th House, which probably relates more to the teaching aspect Chiron once you heal your "wound".

There is a severe misunderstanding of Earth Energy among Astrologers due to the lack of Earth-specific planets in the charts. Cynthia L.C. Wood's perspective on the 3 earth signs in her book "Earth Rise: The Case for Studying and Using Earth in Astrology" (something that I've incorporated into my own readings and Astrological philosophy for the past 3 years) highlights this. Capricorn is the sense of order that Virgo understands, selects, and refines in order for it to be physically manifested correctly (Taurus). In the same notion regarding physical form, Capricorn is the Astral Body, Virgo is the Etheric Body (vital body, Chakra systems, etc), and Taurus is the Physical Body as a whole/mass bound by gravity (Earth/Gaia Sign, always exactly opposite your natal sun, how you are grounded in physical reality and your physical vessel).

Dwarf planet Ceres, Mother of the Asteroid Belt, is the ruler of Virgo. I've seen some people claim that Chiron rules Virgo, but that doesn't make sense on a practical level. I personally think most astrologers place too much emphasis on Chiron and not nearly enough on Ceres and her Asteroid children (who all orbit our Sun in between Mars and Jupiter in a torus shape) or even other Centaurs (Chariklo and Pholus are also retrograding in Capricorn right now). Ceres, who is a true planet (is spherical due to her own gravity) is only called a dwarf planet due to her size. Ceres is significantly closer to Earth and larger than Chiron. Also, for a body in Ceres' location to have the same gravitational effect on Earth as Pluto (another dwarf planet), it would need to have a radius of at least 240 miles; Ceres' radius is 293.91 miles. Ceres is a geologically active proto-planet (baby/seed planet) that likely migrated from the Kuiper Belt, which is fitting if you know the mythology of Ceres (Demeter) and Pluto (Hades), who resides in the Kuiper Belt. Chiron is further out than Ceres and is significantly smaller, so it holds less weight in the System. Chiron and the other Centaurs in the solar system are hybrids of comets and asteroids orbiting from the Main Belt to the Kuiper Belt, and most link the orbits of other planets, serving as energies of transformation/transmutation of the planetary bodies involved. Their orbits are not stable, being disturbed by the gravity and orbits of the Outer Planets, so they will likely leave our Solar System all together in a few million years. This means that we will eventually evolve past their energies in this System and therefore our charts. Chiron itself links Saturn and Uranus, orbiting much closer to Saturn (fitting given the limits imposed by the wound Chiron places in our charts). Saturn and Uranus deal with social interactions and their planetary returns come much later in life, and Chiron itself only returns at about age 51, making it an energy that is reviewed and refreshed just prior to our second Saturn Return.

If anything Chiron andhis fellow Centaurs are like higher octaves of the Main Asteroid Belt, meaning we need to understand the inner belt a bit better before moving outward. Perhaps the objects in the Kuiper Belt are higher octaves of the Centaurs, as I suspect they may also relate/link specific sign energy. For example Pluto and its family and Haumea and its family both relate to different facets of Scorpio energy, perhaps one is of the Scorpion, the other of the Eagle. Similarly, while I believe Ceres rules Virgo, and all of the Main Asteroid Belt falls under Virgo, specific Asteroids link specific signs, mostly Leo through Scorpio (who tell the story of the kundalini): Juno is related to Water Energy in a blend of Libra/Scorpio (there's a difference between a Venus relationship and a Juno relationship), while Vesta (the parent body of the Vesta Family, a group of over 15,200 asteroids) is definitely Fire Energy, relating to our inner fire/hearth/charge/kundalini force, our focus and commitment, and the inner union and regeneration with the self; giving away our kundalini is the Scorpio/8th House realm. Vesta is so bright that she can be occasionally seen with the naked eye from Earth. Virgo energy sees and organizes the energies of how we begin to interact with others which is seen with Ceres and her belt of Asteroids, who are personal energies we utilize by directing our energy (Mars) before heading into the social sphere of Jupiter and beyond.

Ceres is currently retrograding in Pisces (at the exact degree Mercury retrograded back in Pisces Season) conjunct Nessus (another Centaur). Ceres is how we tend to our well-being, our sense of self-reliance, nurturing ourselves and others in a physical sense (Cancer/Moon is emotional; perhaps Ceres is exalted in Cancer), which includes the very simplified action descriptions of Virgo and the 6th House, routine, health, and service (caring for ourselves and others, like babies/pets or a garden, via a routine). The efforts we put in dictates the results of our harvest (what we're known for, the 10th House) and is usually seen in what we value (2nd House). Only a change in values that is met with appropriate action and done consistently (routine, 6th House) will produce the results that we want (10th House). There is far too little earth planet/energy representation in charts. Chiron represents a spiritual wound, and is important to understand, but we should definitely be focusing more on the physicality of our existence and day-to-day lives than on too much of the spiritual/internal. We live on an EARTH planet in a PHYSICAL reality after all and we sure have some environmental health issues on the mirco and macro levels right now.

Last edited by Ronlof; 07-23-2020 at 01:15 AM.
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