Whom are you "Pluto"?
- Thread starter Vyri
- Start date
Vyri
Banned
Whom are you "Pluto"?
At the time I asked this rhetorical question I had just read a post by one of the very articulate (among many here) astrologer's upon the topic of Traditional Astrology and Modern. Whether to include Pluto as a planet of consideration in reading Horary maps. I wonder how my psyche views my understanding about Pluto? Or maybe asking a question about a planet may be likened unto a universal understanding?
At the time I asked this rhetorical question I had just read a post by one of the very articulate (among many here) astrologer's upon the topic of Traditional Astrology and Modern. Whether to include Pluto as a planet of consideration in reading Horary maps. I wonder how my psyche views my understanding about Pluto? Or maybe asking a question about a planet may be likened unto a universal understanding?
Attachments
Last edited:
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Wow, you asked this question at a time which gave some pretty powerful symbolism on the chart axis.
Lets take a look. This is by no means a traditionally accepted technique of reading a horary, but i find the sabian symbols to be particularly insightful.
Quotes taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala". Due to quote limitations, i cannot post the symbols in full, so i encourage you to read them at length at this site:
http://www.mindfire.ca/An Astrological Mandala/An Astrological Mandala - Contents.htm
Lets first look at the symbol for the AC. The AC represents WHO, and because of the nature of the question, i think its safe to say that the who represents pluto, in the very least, pluto as it is understood by you, the querrent.
The AC is at 27.52 gemini, or the 28th degree of gemini:
" THROUGH BANKRUPTCY, SOCIETY GIVES TO AN OVERBURDENED INDIVIDUAL THE OPPORTUNITY TO BEGIN AGAIN.
KEYNOTE: A release from unbearable pressures, freeing one for new tasks.
The special nature of the whole is implied in the failure of the part to perform adequately under particularly harsh economic conditions. A society which enthrones the principle of ruthless competition must also develop mechanisms to exteriorize the principle of compassion. The latter was at first emphasized by Northern Buddhism, and soon after by Christianity. The concept of atonement is directly related to that of release from unbearable economic pressures in bankruptcy.
This is the third stage in the eighteenth sequence of cyclic phases. In the first two stages we have seen the emergence of a new consciousness based on leaving behind the externals of bio-psychic living in its at least relatively wild and exuberant aspect. Here we have another kind of "leaving behind," a LIBERATION FROM THE PAST."
...so here we have a symbol about liberation of oneself from past failures..... I think this is incredibly in tune with the nature of pluto....
The DC represents whom-to, where the WHO is going..... In this case, where your understanding of pluto is heading (or possibly, plutos essence as to impact humanity at large...)
Dc found at 27.52 sag, or the 28th degree of sag.... This is truly a remarkably spiritual symbol:
"AN OLD BRIDGE OVER A BEAUTIFUL STREAM IS STILL IN CONSTANT USE.
KEYNOTE: The enduring elements in a society which reveal its ability to significantly link the genius of its individuals to the everyday needs of the collectivity.
This symbol brings together, as it were, the essential values implied in the two preceding ones. The mastery over material factors of a few imaginative and trained individuals enables their community to remain well-integrated and able to function easily in the best possible environment. The work of these sculptor-engineers allows their people to develop a relatively permanent culture. A tradition is built which enables men to link their outer nature with the highest vision their leaders can conceive and objectively demonstrate.
... the combination of natural beauty and human skill and imagination is the true ideal to strive for. As Keywords we might use the title of an excellent book by the architect Claude Bragdon: THE BEAUTIFUL NECESSITY."
Linking individual genuis and imagination with collectivity.... The beautiful necessity.... Mastery over material factors.... Linking the one and the many towards a common good which may spark permanence and endurance....!
Next to come.... The symbolism for the ic (the why) and the mc (the how)... As well as the symbol for the degree of pluto himself.
Lets take a look. This is by no means a traditionally accepted technique of reading a horary, but i find the sabian symbols to be particularly insightful.
Quotes taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala". Due to quote limitations, i cannot post the symbols in full, so i encourage you to read them at length at this site:
http://www.mindfire.ca/An Astrological Mandala/An Astrological Mandala - Contents.htm
Lets first look at the symbol for the AC. The AC represents WHO, and because of the nature of the question, i think its safe to say that the who represents pluto, in the very least, pluto as it is understood by you, the querrent.
The AC is at 27.52 gemini, or the 28th degree of gemini:
" THROUGH BANKRUPTCY, SOCIETY GIVES TO AN OVERBURDENED INDIVIDUAL THE OPPORTUNITY TO BEGIN AGAIN.
KEYNOTE: A release from unbearable pressures, freeing one for new tasks.
The special nature of the whole is implied in the failure of the part to perform adequately under particularly harsh economic conditions. A society which enthrones the principle of ruthless competition must also develop mechanisms to exteriorize the principle of compassion. The latter was at first emphasized by Northern Buddhism, and soon after by Christianity. The concept of atonement is directly related to that of release from unbearable economic pressures in bankruptcy.
This is the third stage in the eighteenth sequence of cyclic phases. In the first two stages we have seen the emergence of a new consciousness based on leaving behind the externals of bio-psychic living in its at least relatively wild and exuberant aspect. Here we have another kind of "leaving behind," a LIBERATION FROM THE PAST."
...so here we have a symbol about liberation of oneself from past failures..... I think this is incredibly in tune with the nature of pluto....
The DC represents whom-to, where the WHO is going..... In this case, where your understanding of pluto is heading (or possibly, plutos essence as to impact humanity at large...)
Dc found at 27.52 sag, or the 28th degree of sag.... This is truly a remarkably spiritual symbol:
"AN OLD BRIDGE OVER A BEAUTIFUL STREAM IS STILL IN CONSTANT USE.
KEYNOTE: The enduring elements in a society which reveal its ability to significantly link the genius of its individuals to the everyday needs of the collectivity.
This symbol brings together, as it were, the essential values implied in the two preceding ones. The mastery over material factors of a few imaginative and trained individuals enables their community to remain well-integrated and able to function easily in the best possible environment. The work of these sculptor-engineers allows their people to develop a relatively permanent culture. A tradition is built which enables men to link their outer nature with the highest vision their leaders can conceive and objectively demonstrate.
... the combination of natural beauty and human skill and imagination is the true ideal to strive for. As Keywords we might use the title of an excellent book by the architect Claude Bragdon: THE BEAUTIFUL NECESSITY."
Linking individual genuis and imagination with collectivity.... The beautiful necessity.... Mastery over material factors.... Linking the one and the many towards a common good which may spark permanence and endurance....!
Next to come.... The symbolism for the ic (the why) and the mc (the how)... As well as the symbol for the degree of pluto himself.
Last edited:
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
Here is the symbol for the IC, the spiritual WHY of the chart, at 29.24 leo:
" AN UNSEALED LETTER.
KEYNOTE: The realization by the individual that all thoughts and all messages are inevitably to be shared with all men.
The letter contains a public message in the sense that when man has reached the stage of true mental repolarization and development — which we see in the very first symbol for Leo — he has actually become a participant in the One Mind of humanity. Nothing can really be hidden, except superficially and for a brief time. What any man thinks and deeply realizes becomes the property of all men. Nothing is more senseless than possessiveness in the realm of ideas. If God speaks to a man, Man hears the word. Nothing can remain permanently "sealed."
As this thirtieth sequence of five symbols ends, it is made clear to us, and particularly to the inherently proud Leo type, that all that takes form within the mind of a man belongs to all men. Communication and SHARING must always prevail over the will to glorify oneself by claiming sole possession of ideas and information."
...How appropriate!!!
And here is the MC, which represents the spiritual HOW of the chart, or more specifically, how to from the AC to the DC:
" DEEPLY BOOTED IN THE PAST OF A VERY ANCIENT CULTURE, A SPIRITUAL BROTHERHOOD IN WHICH MANY INDIVIDUAL MINDS ARE MERGED INTO THE GLOWING LIGHT OF A UNANIMOUS CONSCIOUSNESS IS REVEALED TO ONE WHO HAS EMERGED SUCCESSFULLY FROM HIS METAMORPHOSIS.
KEYNOTE: The ability for the person with an open mind and a deep feeling for self-transcendence to come in contact with higher forms of existence.
A spiritual Brotherhood consitutes a state of "multi-unity" — i.e. a multiplicity of individuals, if one thinks of the paths they trod to reach their final metamorphosis, but a unity of consciousness and "Soul" —thus unanimity ("anima" meaning Soul). In this spiritual Whole each unit is a recognizable "form" or entity if one looks at it with the eyes of personality; but when seen through a unified spiritual vision or from a distance, the Whole appears to be one single area of radiant light. Similarly, when studied by the modern physicist, light can be apprehended either as a stream of identifiable particles (photons) or as one continuous wave. Whether it is seen as one or the other depends on the point of view.
This is the last and culminating symbol of Scene Twenty-two of the cyclic ritual. This is indeed a fitting symbol, as the number 22 symbolizes all forms of mastery. At any level, it is a symbol of spiritual group fulfillment — of CONSCIOUS TOTALITY OF BEING."
The unity that is the reward for successful self-transcendence and metamorphosis..... Powerful!!!!!
" AN UNSEALED LETTER.
KEYNOTE: The realization by the individual that all thoughts and all messages are inevitably to be shared with all men.
The letter contains a public message in the sense that when man has reached the stage of true mental repolarization and development — which we see in the very first symbol for Leo — he has actually become a participant in the One Mind of humanity. Nothing can really be hidden, except superficially and for a brief time. What any man thinks and deeply realizes becomes the property of all men. Nothing is more senseless than possessiveness in the realm of ideas. If God speaks to a man, Man hears the word. Nothing can remain permanently "sealed."
As this thirtieth sequence of five symbols ends, it is made clear to us, and particularly to the inherently proud Leo type, that all that takes form within the mind of a man belongs to all men. Communication and SHARING must always prevail over the will to glorify oneself by claiming sole possession of ideas and information."
...How appropriate!!!
And here is the MC, which represents the spiritual HOW of the chart, or more specifically, how to from the AC to the DC:
" DEEPLY BOOTED IN THE PAST OF A VERY ANCIENT CULTURE, A SPIRITUAL BROTHERHOOD IN WHICH MANY INDIVIDUAL MINDS ARE MERGED INTO THE GLOWING LIGHT OF A UNANIMOUS CONSCIOUSNESS IS REVEALED TO ONE WHO HAS EMERGED SUCCESSFULLY FROM HIS METAMORPHOSIS.
KEYNOTE: The ability for the person with an open mind and a deep feeling for self-transcendence to come in contact with higher forms of existence.
A spiritual Brotherhood consitutes a state of "multi-unity" — i.e. a multiplicity of individuals, if one thinks of the paths they trod to reach their final metamorphosis, but a unity of consciousness and "Soul" —thus unanimity ("anima" meaning Soul). In this spiritual Whole each unit is a recognizable "form" or entity if one looks at it with the eyes of personality; but when seen through a unified spiritual vision or from a distance, the Whole appears to be one single area of radiant light. Similarly, when studied by the modern physicist, light can be apprehended either as a stream of identifiable particles (photons) or as one continuous wave. Whether it is seen as one or the other depends on the point of view.
This is the last and culminating symbol of Scene Twenty-two of the cyclic ritual. This is indeed a fitting symbol, as the number 22 symbolizes all forms of mastery. At any level, it is a symbol of spiritual group fulfillment — of CONSCIOUS TOTALITY OF BEING."
The unity that is the reward for successful self-transcendence and metamorphosis..... Powerful!!!!!
Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
And finally, the symbol of Pluto at 14.54 capricorn:
" IN A HOSPITAL, THE CHILDREN'S WARD IS FILLED WITH TOYS.
KEYNOTE: The responsibility of society to ensure the welfare and total health of the new generation.
The socio-cultural process must look to the future as well as to the past. It has created conditions which may harm the children who will carry forward its work, and it must try to repair these negative conditions through love as well as through physical care. In personal life, the individual should take great care of his fresh intuitions and his dreams of future growth. They are often fragile developments which the pressures of everyday life can easily distort or destroy.
This is the last stage of Scene Nineteen, which began with a powerful claim for socio-political power. The exercise of such a power can indeed produce social conditions which endanger the healthy and spiritual unfoldment of a community, and especially of its children. There is therefore constant need for TENDER CARE as well as skill to neutralize the destructive tensions of social living."
Note the phrase "the individual should take great care of his fresh intuitions and dreams of future growth." And... "care... And skill to neutralize the destructive tensions..."
" IN A HOSPITAL, THE CHILDREN'S WARD IS FILLED WITH TOYS.
KEYNOTE: The responsibility of society to ensure the welfare and total health of the new generation.
The socio-cultural process must look to the future as well as to the past. It has created conditions which may harm the children who will carry forward its work, and it must try to repair these negative conditions through love as well as through physical care. In personal life, the individual should take great care of his fresh intuitions and his dreams of future growth. They are often fragile developments which the pressures of everyday life can easily distort or destroy.
This is the last stage of Scene Nineteen, which began with a powerful claim for socio-political power. The exercise of such a power can indeed produce social conditions which endanger the healthy and spiritual unfoldment of a community, and especially of its children. There is therefore constant need for TENDER CARE as well as skill to neutralize the destructive tensions of social living."
Note the phrase "the individual should take great care of his fresh intuitions and dreams of future growth." And... "care... And skill to neutralize the destructive tensions..."
Vyri
Banned
Thank you PhoenixVenus....I will.
A partial personal viewpoint of the interpretation of attempting to ask a question of universal meaning.
Viable?
“Whom” are you Pluto? (A subjective viewpoint of the planet)
Theory: What universal truth does Pluto represent to (other’s) the enquirer?
A universal question was on the mind of the querant “of just whom-or what” Pluto represents to modern theory of Astrologic.
Rising is 27 deg.Gemini 52 minutes ruler of the natural 3rd house of everyday affairs and applications of thought processes. The sign is partially rising upon the 12th. We see the projection of Gemini’s ruler within the 9th house in the chart. Mercury there is within Aquarius, an altruistic sign, the interpretation of a higher description of thinking. The individual is seeking the personality of the planet as referencing a higher source expression, and is expecting the Planet to represent (when attempting to analyze the planets usage in the process of life’s every day expectations) a universal montage of greater good in magnitude, at least to the enquirer. We might also attempt to interpret as Gemini is upon the 12th as Pluto being a "usage instrument" of thoughts of 12th house sins utilizing retrospective insight to them.
Last edited:
.