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  #1  
Unread 12-12-2012, 10:59 AM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Bad Aspected Planets?

Do I have a bad aspected venus?

venus in aries = detriment
venus square uranus = need for unconventional and unusual relationships, wanting love/relationships, but when in one, feels too suffocated and wants independence.
Venus square neptune = hyper-idealized, unrealistic views on love, often fooled by love.
and
Venus quincunx pluto

the only good aspect to my venus is Venus Sextile Mars.

with that said... does that mean i'm doomed in love/being romantically involved wit someone.

is there anything that can smooth out these hard aspects to venus? or to any bad aspected planet for that matter.

Although, i have Venus in Fifth House, but does that count for this issue

Does anyone have a bad aspected planet(s)...Or know anyone who has one?
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Unread 12-12-2012, 01:56 PM
starstudent33 starstudent33 is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

You can ignore those squares because the orb is way too wide. Astrodienst uses too-wide
orbs, causing it to look like you have a lot more aspects than you really have. The only
aspects I see to Venus are good:

Venus 5th semisextile Sun 4th: You will be a loving father for your kids. You wish to include
an attractive woman in your home life. Venus 5th Aries: You show strong initiative for starting
romantic relationships. (Echoed by Mars 7th, ruler). Mars 7th Gemini sextile Venus: You initiate
intelligent communication in partnerships, bringing an opportunity for romance.
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  #3  
Unread 12-12-2012, 06:18 PM
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Oh, please. Most modern astrologers don't use detriments or talk about "bad" aspects. "Doomed in love" sounds like something out of a bad soap-opera!

Mercury rules your seventh house of marriage and it is well-aspected.

I agree with Starstudent: you may feel that Venus square Uranus and Neptune occasionally, but the aspect is so wide that I would not see it as a huge issue.

However, you probably will prefer women who are independent, autonomous, and even a little unusual in some way. She might be athletic, or very creative. And there is nothing wrong with that.

They're out there.

The biggest issues I see in your chart are your 7th house Mars square sun, and moon square Pluto. You may find yourself feeling pressured and angry a fair bit of the time, and seeing women as engaged in power-plays in terms of who gets his or her own way in a relationship. Keep in mind that the 7th "house of marriage" is equally "the house of open enemies" when we can't keep our temper under constrol. So it will be important to work on a more mature and loving approach to the actual woman or women in your life.
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  #4  
Unread 12-14-2012, 01:25 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

I wouldn't throw wide orbs out....

Being as old and as old-fashioned as I am, I guess I don't qualify as a modern astrologer,
especially since I talk about detriments and bad aspects.

Are there not people in this world who, by any standards, seem to live a doomed life?

Doom. It sounds almost macabre. Don't you love the sound of Doom?
The Hindenburg and the Titanic were doomed. The astronauts aboard the Challenger were doomed. Charles Manson was doomed....

Why wouldn't an astrologer use the word doom? After all, there are horoscopes that say "You're in for a bumpy ride."

What is interesting about this chart is its structure.... but I won't go there.

But look at that inconjunct between Mars and Pluto. It contains all the planets apart from Jupiter Mars throws the aspect from the 7th House to the 12th, which we can say is co-ruled by both planets. It is true that Mercury rules the 7th House, but it is also true that Mars rules Mercury FROM the 7th House. The two planets are in mutual reception. A planet IN a house is the more active and immediately effective in general, and here the mutual reception, presence of Mars in the house of relationships (the "other", the "not-self") --- [a condition known in Hindu astrology as "mangal yoga" and considered highly unfortunate for marriage by them] and his hard aspects bring him to prominence (in my view.)

Venus is not the only planet in the sky that affects relationships. The Moon is always important in this regard. In this chart Moon is peregrine, in a cadent house, ruling the unfortunate 8th house, and most notably, in square to the powerful Pluto in the 12th. I would hesitate to say that the Moon is well-placed in this chart; she is in difficulty.

It is the Moon who most directly activates the quincunx between Mars and Pluto (by her trine to Mars and almost simultaneous and very damaging square to Pluto), and that aspect is within degree on its own account. These three planets describe a "psychological complex," and in this chart that complex produces difficulties. Using the anachronistic terminology of such geezers as I, it is bad. There is a war going on between the native and his mother and its effects are deep and painful. And this war will spill over into the area of marriage and other close relationships. A mother is a woman. This relationship thus affects all succeeding relationships with women, deeply colors attitudes toward them. The whole complex seems to me to indicate what I will characterize as buried rage. This leads to a species of emotional detachment. And the complex also includes sexual issues...note that Venus in the 5th is ruled by this Mars, tht Mars, Venus and Pluto are involved in a yod formation with Pluto at the apex (and Pluto in the self-defeating and sometimes self-destructive 12th) (even if it is considered a bit wide, the rulership of Venus by Mars connects them) -- the three planets most concerned with sex are involved in this disruptive formation, another "complex." Add to this the rulership of Moon over the sexual 8th.... Moreover, Moon is in her dying phase, coming to the New Moon, and this solilunar phase frequently indicates many rather short-lived but very intense relationships.

Gemini, which is a dual sign, is on the cusp of the 7th. This leads to a preliminary suspicion of "more than one marriage." Mars is in Gemini too. Mars flits from flower to flower, and he rules the detrimented Venus whose self-centered nature is not particularly amenable to cooperative relationships. We might note that the 5th house concerns what are primarily "illicit romantic affairs, outside of wedlock" and Mars, who rules Venus, is in the sign of Gemini (multiplicity).

There is very little in this chart to counter these fundamentally difficult relational dynamics.

You are doomed.

Now, being doomed, the question becomes..."What will I do about this?"
After all, when we come to the bottom line, it is you who causes it all.
But the causation is deeply unconscious and not under your control.
Which is to say, there isn't much you can do about it.

Have you ever ridden a roller-coaster? Once you buckle up, you are in it for the whole ride. It's scary, thrilling, stimulating. Might as well enjoy the ride.
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  #5  
Unread 12-14-2012, 06:06 PM
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Greybeard, everybody is going to die eventually. In that sense, you, me, everybody on the planet: we're all "doomed."

I just don't find this concept helpful in talking to a 21-year old about his love life.

I believe that any horoscope placements have empowering and disempowering expressions. Consequently, it might be helpful to focus on how to empower 7401Rizey.

I see a nice Mars-Venus sextile, a Mars-moon trine, and a well aspected ruler of the 7th house.

In real life, most people have ups and downs in their love life. Ideally astrology helps us to focus on our assets and to mitigate the challenges.

BTW I have a dual sign on my 7th house cusp and have been married twice, both times for the long haul (20 years plus 17 years and counting.) Divorce is always painful, but it is also an experience shared by half the married US population. Doom? I don't think so.

Synastry teaches us that finding the right person makes a huge difference.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
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Last edited by waybread; 12-14-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 12-14-2012, 06:12 PM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
I wouldn't throw wide orbs out....

Being as old and as old-fashioned as I am, I guess I don't qualify as a modern astrologer,
especially since I talk about detriments and bad aspects.

Are there not people in this world who, by any standards, seem to live a doomed life?

Doom. It sounds almost macabre. Don't you love the sound of Doom?
The Hindenburg and the Titanic were doomed. The astronauts aboard the Challenger were doomed. Charles Manson was doomed....

Why wouldn't an astrologer use the word doom? After all, there are horoscopes that say "You're in for a bumpy ride."

What is interesting about this chart is its structure.... but I won't go there.

But look at that inconjunct between Mars and Pluto. It contains all the planets apart from Jupiter Mars throws the aspect from the 7th House to the 12th, which we can say is co-ruled by both planets. It is true that Mercury rules the 7th House, but it is also true that Mars rules Mercury FROM the 7th House. The two planets are in mutual reception. A planet IN a house is the more active and immediately effective in general, and here the mutual reception, presence of Mars in the house of relationships (the "other", the "not-self") --- [a condition known in Hindu astrology as "mangal yoga" and considered highly unfortunate for marriage by them] and his hard aspects bring him to prominence (in my view.)

Venus is not the only planet in the sky that affects relationships. The Moon is always important in this regard. In this chart Moon is peregrine, in a cadent house, ruling the unfortunate 8th house, and most notably, in square to the powerful Pluto in the 12th. I would hesitate to say that the Moon is well-placed in this chart; she is in difficulty.

It is the Moon who most directly activates the quincunx between Mars and Pluto (by her trine to Mars and almost simultaneous and very damaging square to Pluto), and that aspect is within degree on its own account. These three planets describe a "psychological complex," and in this chart that complex produces difficulties. Using the anachronistic terminology of such geezers as I, it is bad. There is a war going on between the native and his mother and its effects are deep and painful. And this war will spill over into the area of marriage and other close relationships. A mother is a woman. This relationship thus affects all succeeding relationships with women, deeply colors attitudes toward them. The whole complex seems to me to indicate what I will characterize as buried rage. This leads to a species of emotional detachment. And the complex also includes sexual issues...note that Venus in the 5th is ruled by this Mars, tht Mars, Venus and Pluto are involved in a yod formation with Pluto at the apex (and Pluto in the self-defeating and sometimes self-destructive 12th) (even if it is considered a bit wide, the rulership of Venus by Mars connects them) -- the three planets most concerned with sex are involved in this disruptive formation, another "complex." Add to this the rulership of Moon over the sexual 8th.... Moreover, Moon is in her dying phase, coming to the New Moon, and this solilunar phase frequently indicates many rather short-lived but very intense relationships.

Gemini, which is a dual sign, is on the cusp of the 7th. This leads to a preliminary suspicion of "more than one marriage." Mars is in Gemini too. Mars flits from flower to flower, and he rules the detrimented Venus whose self-centered nature is not particularly amenable to cooperative relationships. We might note that the 5th house concerns what are primarily "illicit romantic affairs, outside of wedlock" and Mars, who rules Venus, is in the sign of Gemini (multiplicity).

There is very little in this chart to counter these fundamentally difficult relational dynamics.

You are doomed.

Now, being doomed, the question becomes..."What will I do about this?"
After all, when we come to the bottom line, it is you who causes it all.
But the causation is deeply unconscious and not under your control.
Which is to say, there isn't much you can do about it.

Have you ever ridden a roller-coaster? Once you buckle up, you are in it for the whole ride. It's scary, thrilling, stimulating. Might as well enjoy the ride.
wow... uhm, that's a very in depth and a bone chilling explanation.
so i guess, Venus, Mars and Pluto are at odds at each other, creating a psychological complex that is directed towards women, that starts with the mother..

You are right about that, but i guess there's really nothing i can do once there isn't any aspects or houses or anything that can smooth this difficulties out

but what do you mean by "Moon is peregrine, in a cadent house" ?
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Unread 12-14-2012, 06:44 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

The Venus- Mars sextile is not as helpful as "sextile" might imply. Mars holds sway in the 7th because his ruler Mercury receives him, and he is in his own term. He is afflicted in a very powerful way by the quincunx to Pluto in the 12th, and Mars holds stock in the 12th. The 7th and 12th are linked.

In other words, Mars supplants Mercury as ruler of 7th -- he is present in the house and in reception with its nominative ruler. And Mars is not happily placed.

He rules Venus...but Venus is in her detriment (the ego-centered Aries, where she is not quite so interested in "others" (and hence cooperative equal relationships) as her own nature would like. The sextile is not so helpful because of this, and it is separating by 6 degrees. With Venus in the 5th of "romance", her impetuous Aries nature, she has a direct bearing on 7th house affairs, but not necessarily a favorable one.

Moon and Mars are natural enemies of the first order. The trine between them is not as helpful as might be wished, and is disrupted by the powerful and damaging square of Moon to Pluto in the 12th -- which flips the switch on the Mars-Pluto quincunx every time it is activated by any sort of direction. Moon is peregrine, has little power in the cadent house, and as peregrine is likely to make some mischief on her own. Aquarius is emotionally dry and Moon there is a bit distant in relationships anyway. So the Moon-Mars trine is not as helpful as we might like, either.

As mentioned, Mercury has to some degree abdicated in favor of Mars as ruler of 7th. And Mercury-Mars contacts can tend toward a competitive, sometimes combative mindset, even under good aspects (here mutual reception) and a competitive Mars in the 7th is not likely to enhance relationships.

I see no significant indications that might counteract these difficult complexes.

The Moon-Pluto square is very powerful. It is the only applying square in the chart, and its effects are exacerbated by the Mars participation. A Moon-Pluto square almost always producess very deep and disturbing effects, is directly concerned with "mother relations", which implicitly affect all relationships with the feminine. And Pluto is in the 12th to add to the mischief, and in his own sign and own house...quite powerful.

Now... I can "empower" this young man either by painting a rosy albeit delusional picture of "they lived happily ever after", or by preparing him for his personal reality, and helping him devise a plan of action and attitude suitable to meeting that reality --- rather than the delusion you propose I paint for him.

I don't use synastry. I prefer to work directly from the birth charts of the principals. But here's the thing...This birth chart says "trouble in relationships", pretty clearly. And this means with or without benefit of synastry. The destiny calls for it.

I

Last edited by greybeard; 12-14-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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Unread 12-14-2012, 06:52 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Moon is peregrine means the Moon is without essential dignity (having to do with sign position). Peregrine shows weakness, or quite often a propensity to cause trouble.

Cadent refers to her 3rd house position. The 3rd is one of the four cadent houses, which are traditionally seen as weak houses (the Ninth being the exception -- in Hindu astrology the 9th is the "best" house) where a planet loses power to act effectively. The Third is said to be the Moon's "joy", but I have ignored that. Cadent is just one more piece in the analytical puzzle, helping to form a judgment as to strength and effectiveness, and the way a planet is likely to act. The cadent houses are the ones just clockwise of the Angles of the chart --3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th.

In order to understand the how and why of relationship problems (what I focused on because that was the question) you need to understand the whole chart. I have given only a part of the life picture (and it is not necessarily so bone-chilling as I make it out to be). Everything has purpose.

That Moon-Pluto square is powerful. It dominates. And you already know what it means because you have lived/are living it.
One of your most important tasks in life is to resolve that square, and that will take you a long time because it is deep and hidden. Over time, with experience, bits and pieces of what is hidden will come to light (consciousness), which little by little -- if you work at it -- will allow you to reach some resolution of that square.

We can't and don't "resolve" all our problems in life, especially the internal private ones. They are there. What is more important than "fixing" things is learning how to live with them. Life is a matter of the perspective you choose to see it from.

You shouldn't take astrology as a fatalistic decree of doom. An attitude like that just makes a day seem cloudy. I'm a pretty competent astrologer......know what? I have no idea what is in store for me tomorrow, or next month. I don't care. I want to live today as an adventure, meet life here and now. I'm happy that way and not weighted down by the forecasts of gloom and doom prophets like myself.

Last edited by greybeard; 12-14-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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Unread 12-14-2012, 07:13 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Actually your Venus when you were born was not frictionfull at all. This means that using the energies of Venus did not cuase much strife at all and in fact worked pretty well for you. The difficulty was that Venus was pretty devoid of influencing much in your chart: no power.

In your progressed Chart Venus has moved to the top of the low fridtion column. its the easiest planet to use because it still has little consequences in the use of it. While not as piddlingly weak as it was at your birth, its still not terribly powerful so you have to use the energies over and over again to get any effect. You have to maddeningly persistent.

The problem with your chart at the moment, and your progessed chart is "THE" CHART OF ACTION AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT(as opposed to the aptitudes that you had at birth), is that all of the real power planets in the progressed chart will give you problems when you use their energies.

You are in a period of the need for gentle but persistent action using the positive energies of Venus, Mars, and Pluto. Look at their positive components, and direct your force in that direction. And remember that only the people and stuff of the 5th and 7th houses are going to be easy for you to address at the moment. Issues of the 4th and 10th houses will be the most difficult, and have the most need for you to only use the energies of Venus, Mars, and Pluto in their most positive ways--- and gently again and again over time. They will be like herbal medications.

Sometimes we go through times in life where astrology is the only way that we can navigate through the mine field of what life has provided us. But it is a way, and its a very very good way.

But there is much much more. You really need to explore how this affects your ability to change, with your struggles with limitation, with where you can grow the best wiouthout being hampered, and many other things that I have barely touched on here.

Z
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Unread 12-14-2012, 08:04 PM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

I mean with the replies that i have seen here, it seems to me that i really have to work on that area of life using those energies in a more controlled and responsible way if i ever hope to succeed in those areas because of not only... those hard aspects that i have surrounding the issue, but also the venus in aries, Mars in gemini in the 7th house and also which i haven't mentioned in the OP but also the Moon in the position that it's in and the sign in Aquarius (which makes for yet another hard aspect, in terms of relationships)

but i have a question. Mars in the 7th house, wouldn't that type of Psychological issue, along with the other aspects carry out through other relationships as well, not only feminine? or is there other aspects that neutralizes/balances that effect?

Isn't Venus in 5th house a good position for any venus even if it's in a self-centered sign of Aries, not to mention that coupled by Pisces in Sun makes for a very artistic/passionate person? I know that doesn't mean much, since it's still on a detriment... but i guess in terms of staying power in a relationship perspective.

i've read that, that Moon-Pluto also has an issue with the control of one's emotions and control of others emotions. Which since Moon's in Aquarius and Pluto in 12th house ruled by Scorpio makes for a pretty intense/cold emotion detachment, even though some of the signs i have in my chart are ruled by water houses, so i wouldn't that make me.... either Coldly Detached or Emotionally Expressive?
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Unread 12-14-2012, 08:16 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

At birth

Venus is in her detriment, and let's be frank....Aries is not at all a good position for Venus.
She is ruled by Mars, who is himself under tribulation.
(I had not mentioned the incredibly high declination of Mars....over 25 degrees)
Venus is in quincunx to a 12th house Pluto (under 3 degrees) and involved in a yod.
She is square Neptune (7 degrees, separating), wide perhaps, but still effective.

How can we possibly say that Venus is not "frictionfull" [sic] in the natal chart?

This chart indicates a person who must win at any cost, by any means. Life, from its beginning was a struggle for survival, is seen in these terms, and the native is going to make every effort to insure his own survival and prosperity. This sort of outlook and behavior is not conducive to the good health of relationships.

(The secondary Moon is closely involved with the Mars-Pluto quincunx from about the 4th month of life through the eighth month; we can say, really, that the entire first year of life is deeply involved with this complex. It is deeply imprinted on the psyche....that square becoming ever more powerful during this period, culminating around the 6th month of life. As soon as the Moon leaves the immediate quincunx complex she moves directly to Venus, carrying the effects of that first contact to Venus and infecting Venus with it.)

How can we possibly think Venus is not afflicted here?
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Unread 12-14-2012, 08:28 PM
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Correct. Mars in 7th affects all sorts of relationships.

The core meaning of the 7th House is "Not-self" (because "Self" is found in the First, its opposite). In more understandable terms, the 7th is the house of all "relationships of equality". The 7th has since the very beginnings of astrology been "the house of war." War is a relationship of equality. The 7th house deals with the fine arts in part because it is a competitive house as well as a cooperative one. "Perfomance at the highest level," [the fine arts] is a competitive act, because the performer is saying in essence "I'm a virtuoso and you can't match my skill." It is a cooperative act insofar as the audience and performer are in harmony, the audience transported by the virtuosity.

In your case, the 7th house tends more toward its competitive expression than its cooperative one: Mars is there, Mercury who rules the house is in Aries, an individualistic and competitive sign. Mars and Mercury are in mutual reception and bolster one another. Venus, the planet of cooperation is also in Aries and in aspect to Mars. Mars holds an almost unheard of declination (25 degrees) and his nature is therefore greatly empowered: his essential nature is competitive and self-interested, tends to take everything (see everything) personally. Gemini is a highly volatile and unstable sign; changeability is one of Gemini's great strengths.

Every planet, and every aspect between planets, contains multiple expressions. Moon square Pluto does several things. In my experience it indicates a powerful and damaging relationship with the mother. There is great severity in the relationship, and very powerful control issues. As I mentioned earlier, the whole first year of life is bound up in this aspect complex (and being a complex involving 4 planets increases its power in the life). Moon-Pluto has great difficulty in leaving the past dead and buried. There is a rigid resistance to change, and both of these planets are in Fixed signs. The aspect also tends to produce fear of the unknown, hence the reticence at moving toward the future. Danger is anticipated at every turn, and here we find the basis for a strong need to control. Issues involving rejection or renunciation are apt to be prominent in the life. This aspect is a signature of the loner, an isolated soul. The tendency is to form close but temporary ties whose purpose, from your viewpoint, are to satisfy physical/sexual needs and provide some feeling of warmth and comfort, however fleeting. The aspect is a forceful one, and attempts to bring the environment (and the people in it) into conformity with personal desires, a sort of Procrustes bed. This aspect, and its associated aspect complex, tell us much much more....but here is a hint at what it means.

Bobby Fischer, the great chess champion, had this aspect. You might look at his life, his relationship with his mother, and with everyone and everything around him. He also had Mars in the 7th, exactly on its cusp. In his case the Mars-Pluto was an opposition, not a quincunx as in your case. His life dramatically displays the effects of Moon square Pluto.

Last edited by greybeard; 12-14-2012 at 08:52 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 12-14-2012, 08:46 PM
7401Rizey 7401Rizey is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

so in essence, all the relationships/partners that i will have will be very competitive in itself, and will be used for personal gain/self-centered...

but... then again from a personal standpoint, i am a very helpful and compassionate person, so what would indicate that in my chart, while having all these difficult aspects.
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Unread 12-14-2012, 08:50 PM
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7401Rizey View Post
Do I have a bad aspected venus?
Although, i have Venus in Fifth House, but does that count for this issue
Hello 7401Rizey there are more than thirty different house systems and interestingly the house location of your natal planets is entirely dependent on the chosen house system. With that idea in mind, I have attached your natal chart using whole sign houses and here's a link to a useful brief article on house systems http://www.librarising.com/astrology...ignhouses.html

With whole sign houses:
Saturn is with Moon in 3rd
Mercury is with Venus in 5th
Jupiter is now in 9th
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File Type: jpg 741Rizey Whole Sign Houses.jpg (72.0 KB, 2 views)
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:01 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Venus may be in detriment which in my system of astrology usually means that Venus has no power.

But having no power compared to most other planets in the chart is not the same as having a difficult energy when its used. If Venus has no power and a difficult energy when used then it would be like a ladybug with its tiny little acid when it lites on your skin. If it has no power, but its helpful, then its like when you want to buy a new bicycle. Venus doesn't give you $200 to buy it; Venus gives you a quarter. If you can get enough quarters from Venus, you'll have your new $200 bicycle. But it will take much longer for Venus' positive energy to affect you.

If you want to call that detriment, go ahead.
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:09 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

7401 -- If you are truly interested in what your personal chart indicates with regard to your total character, you need to locate a competent astrolger, pay him or her a few bucks, and get the whole picture.

We have been talking about only a part of that picture. I have been giving you my own perspectives on your chart. Other astrologers will provide you with different views. My approach here has been primarily concerned with the more technical astrological relationships and not with interpretation of them in any broad sense. And what has been most lacking is commentary on the "what to do and how to go about it" sort of advice.
And no partial explanation or description of a chart is adequate for seeing yourself as a whole being.

At the end of the day, no one can tell you how to do it...nor should they. You have to do it on your own. There is no other way.

Your original question was in regard to relationships. There are repeated indications in this chart of many temporary but intense and very important (in terms of your life and what you learn along the path) relationships. Personally, I think that one of your greatest demons is the overpowering urge to control, to be on top, to always win and be right. That urge is born of fear. If I were you, that is where I would begin my remodeling.
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:23 PM
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

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Originally Posted by 7401Rizey View Post
so in essence, all the relationships/partners that i will have will be very competitive in itself, and will be used for personal gain/self-centered...

but... then again from a personal standpoint, i am a very helpful and compassionate person, so what would indicate that in my chart, while having all these difficult aspects.
7401Rizey greybeard has offered an excellent TROPICAL INTERPRETATION of your natal chart SHOWING VENUS IN DETRIMENT.

NEVERTHELESS, I note you say you are a helpful and compassionate person and are wondering how your natal chart could possibly indicate that.

As greybeard commented
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
7401 -- If you are truly interested in what your personal chart indicates with regard to your total character, you need to locate a competent astrolger, pay him or her a few bucks, and get the whole picture.

We have been talking about only a part of that picture. I have been giving you my own perspectives on your chart. Other astrologers will provide you with different views. My approach here has been primarily concerned with the more technical astrological relationships and not with interpretation of them in any broad sense. And what has been most lacking is commentary on the "what to do and how to go about it" sort of advice.
And no partial explanation or description of a chart is adequate for seeing yourself as a whole being.


At the end of the day, no one can tell you how to do it...nor should they. You have to do it on your own. There is no other way.

Your original question was in regard to relationships. There are repeated indications in this chart of many temporary but intense and very important (in terms of your life and what you learn along the path) relationships. Personally, I think that one of your greatest demons is the overpowering urge to control, to be on top, to always win and be right. That urge is born of fear. If I were you, that is where I would begin my remodeling.

SO THEN - TO ILLUSTRATE THE DIFFERENT APPROACHES OF DIFFERENT ASTROLOGERS THEN: When we create your natal chart using SIDEREAL WHOLE SIGN we discover that Venus is no longer in detriment but is instead in her exaltation sign Pisces. Not only that but hey presto! Jupiter is also in his exaltation sign of Cancer - hence the two benefics are not only in trine but also in their exaltations.

I have uploaded your SIDEREAL NATAL CHART so you can view these considerable differences
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 741Rizey SIDEREAL.jpg (74.4 KB, 1 views)
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:23 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
How can we possibly say that Venus is not "frictionfull" [sic] in the natal chart?
I take it that you know nothing about the 30,000 charts which were statistically analysed with 70 page questionnaire during the period of 1920 to 1950 by the Church of Light in Los Angeles, California, USA?

The system produces numerical values from weakest to strongest, and from most frictionfull the least frictionful(system calls it Harmony), for every planet(plus the MC and ASC), every house, every sign, and all aspects of semi-sextile, sextile, square, opposition, inconjuction, and conjunection between all planets and ASC and MH. Using this numerical system it is easy to see what you have in front of you.

But once computers came into use the first interation of the sequences was developed for the Church of light by John Molfese and included into joh Haloran's programs available for his AsdtrolDeluxe program. Subsequently Allen Edwall developed it for his free programs, and Astrolabe started including it in all their programs after Solar Fire Gold 7.0.

This resulted in a complex calculation program taking into affect all the classical detriment, dignity etc stuff, and comparing it with the actual responses of people to the energies of the planets, signs, houses, and aspects in the charts. Some of this stuff worked some of the time. But Church of Light only kept that stuff which worked at more than 90% of the time. The calulation sequence takes a good 10 hours by hand, and was thus never used by any except those who were very very dedicated.

I have used it successfully for all my work since about 2000. I find it very very accurate, and I simply ignore the classical determinations since the ones that worked consistently are included in the research and those that did not were not.

However, you must use Placidus houses with it since the system was statically normed with that house system.

I have a further description of the system as well as books that describe it completely on my website.

Many people put it down, but I've never found anybody putting it down who actually read the research and tried it over time. Besides when one is consistently using 700+ asteroids, harmonics, three different zodiacs, etc, there is simply no way to determine priorities among many thousands of pieces of information when using the classical determinations that were really designed for only using just the planets up to Saturn.

So that's how its done. Its my process. Others can use theirs; I will simply and respectfully disagree.

Zarathu
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:27 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Traditionally, a planet in detriment is weakened. Agreed.
But such a planet can be placed in a position of prominence and power, and when this is so, the weakened planet can have powerful effects....but being in detriment, the tendency is for the effects to be detrimental.

JFK had Saturn in detriment (Cancer). The planet was conjunct the MC, which gave the "weakened" planet great power and influence, and Kennedy rose to the highest position....to his detriment. I assume we can call assassination detrimental. Venus in the chart under examination here is not in a powerful position, but even so Venus is a significator of our ability to form and maintain relationships. Her position and aspects show that power to be weakened, and detrimental.

Also, if you mean by "has no power" that Venus is inherently a weak planet......I can't imagine such a viewpoint.

If you mean her essential and accidental conditioning in this chart make her less than powerful...ok.

But as I understand what you say, it seems to me you misinterpret that "lack of power".

I was lucky. My dad bought my first bicycle used for $5 and I didn't have to save up quarters.
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:28 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Thumbs up Best choice of astrological system

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

At the end of the day, no one can tell you how to do it...nor should they. You have to do it on your own. There is no other way.
OH no, Greybeard!!

We all have a responsibility to tell others "how to do it". But we also have a responsibility to respectfully accept (as you have done)that others have ways to do it which differ from ours. Of course, we can maintain that they are wrong and we are right. But we must all remain respectful in our language(as you have done) to explain why we are better than the rest of the world.
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:31 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Traditionally, a planet in detriment is weakened. Agreed.
But such a planet can be placed in a position of prominence and power, and when this is so, the weakened planet can have powerful effects....but being in detriment, the tendency is for the effects to be detrimental.

JFK had Saturn in detriment (Cancer). The planet was conjunct the MC, which gave the "weakened" planet great power and influence, and Kennedy rose to the highest position....to his detriment. I assume we can call assassination detrimental. Venus in the chart under examination here is not in a powerful position, but even so Venus is a significator of our ability to form and maintain relationships. Her position and aspects show that power to be weakened, and detrimental.

Also, if you mean by "has no power" that Venus is inherently a weak planet......I can't imagine such a viewpoint.

If you mean her essential and accidental conditioning in this chart make her less than powerful...ok.

But as I understand what you say, it seems to me you misinterpret that "lack of power".

I was lucky. My dad bought my first bicycle used for $5 and I didn't have to save up quarters.
As I said above, I am not using your classical system.
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:31 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

A human being is not a statistic. On the contrary, he or she is the personification of the exception to the statistical.

In one sense astrology IS statistical.

But to treat a human being (and their chart) as statisical is....not my cup of tea.
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  #23  
Unread 12-14-2012, 09:37 PM
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

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Originally Posted by 7401Rizey View Post
....but what do you mean by "Moon is peregrine, in a cadent house" ?
'….“A Planet is Peregrine, when in the degrees of any Sign wherein he hath no essential dignity, (Lilly, CA, p.112)

Just as essential dignity signifies strength and capacity for beneficial action, lack of it implies weakness or a harmful disposition. A planet with no essential dignity is called Peregrine, a Latin word meaning 'alien' or 'foreigner' (pereger = beyond the borders, ager = land, i.e., 'beyond one's own land'). In old English, to 'peregrinate' means to wander far from home

In symbolic terms, a peregrine planet describes a drifter - someone with no title or stake in their environment”.....'
source:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig4.html


'….CADENT - From the Latin "to fall", the Cadent houses are those which "fall away" from the Angles, namely the 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th houses. Traditionally these are interpreted as a weakening influence on the planets that tenant these houses.....'
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1d.html
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Unread 12-14-2012, 10:02 PM
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
A human being is not a statistic. On the contrary, he or she is the personification of the exception to the statistical..
Exactly, Astrology highlights individuality
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
In one sense astrology IS statistical.

But to treat a human being (and their chart) as statisical is....not my cup of tea.

Those myriad cookbook computer printouts are based on statistical analysis

If you seek to discover the meaning latent within your natal chart then study the subject- otherwise read Sun sign newspaper magazine sections
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Unread 12-14-2012, 10:21 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Bad Aspected Planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
A human being is not a statistic. On the contrary, he or she is the personification of the exception to the statistical.

In one sense astrology IS statistical.

But to treat a human being (and their chart) as statisical is....not my cup of tea.
You have failed to understand what I am talking about. You can only do that by exploring the usefulness of the system. Its like writing a review for a book you never read.

Feel free to disagree, but my preference would be that you would disagree from facts that you explored, not from feelings that you have about something that you clearly have not taken any time at all to learn about.

I will speak no more about it. If it can be used successfully by such famous astrologers as CC Zain and Doris Chase Doane, then I have no need to defend it, especially from those who argue against it, without even bothering to explore its usefulness.

Last edited by Zarathu; 12-14-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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