Is Pluto misunderstood?

BlackLioness87

Well-known member
Conque muy confianzuda, he?

Es lo malo de tener planetas en los grados 5 y 10 de Leo :) El exceso de confianza conlleva muchos riesgos y me ha traído muchos problemas, pero no soy una persona confianzuda. Se supone que en un foro puedes hablar con alguien casi de igual a igual, el problema es (en mi caso) que al no manejar bien el idioma inglés lo que digo se presta a otras interpretaciones. :) Y en general, también está el problema de no saber en qué sentido se están empleando algunas frases, por medio escrito ¿cómo sabes si una persona está siendo sarcástica? :) En mi caso, si uso sarcasmo sencillamente guiño un ojo así ;) n_n
 

BaoSanniang

Well-known member
I have mostly made peace with the fact that I'll never be able to receive the motherly love and support I deserve from her because she's too dysfunctional of a person to be able to give and receive love like someone who's much healthier and more functional.

What she fails to realize is that none of the things she's done to me and to others will actually be of benefit to her. Every time she resorts to her abusive and manipulative ways she is carving deeper into her own wounds and insecurities, all the time remaining oblivious (as it seems to me) to the fact that she's dealing more damage to herself than she has done to me. While I have made constant efforts to detach and put things into perspective, to live life as myself in search of my own happiness apart from her (and time has proven I am very much capable of doing so), she is only making life more and more difficult for herself because she never tries to become more aware and more in control. When her expectations are not met, it's always someone else's fault. She is 49 and really needs to start taking charge of her own life.

I've tried telling her on a few occasions how her abusive ways are affecting me and how she's digging an emotional grave for herself, but what little I could do and was willing to do to help her see a bit more light was met with resistance and denial.

At this point I can say it's about time to give up and just let fate run its course for her. I believe it's not beneficial or constructive to spend time around people who constantly and deliberately put you down instead of appreciating what you have inside of you. More often than not it reflects an unacknowledged weakness from within, a weakness they don't want to face and overcome because that will shatter their delusion of invincibility that's led them to think they can push people around and no one will ever dare to push back. Well, even if no one does push back in the open, karma will eventually alienate them from people. They're so insecure in themselves, that's why they need to resort to bullying.

I read on another website that Pluto, especially Mars-Pluto but in my opinion any Pluto aspect with a personal planet where the individual expresses Pluto at its lowest octave, enjoys seeking out weakness in others yet at the same time, despises the weakness they find. If you give in to the demands, they'll see you as spineless. If you don't, they'll keep pressuring you to. It's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't. They need to feel like they're in power and in control yet somehow feel dissatisfied once their victim actually submits. It sounds contradictory but reflecting on my experiences that describes my mom and the maternal side of my "family" quite well.

They thrive on continued conquest and exploitation, enjoying their fruits of "success" yet also becoming frustrated when they succeed. They're people who play by survival of the fittest in some of its rawest and most literal interpretations. In their hearts, compassion towards anyone or anything is to be laughed at, because their perception of the "real world" and "mankind" is supposed to be dark and grim and constantly at war. Of course, to someone who's more healthy and well-balanced, they'll know that it's not true.

For a very destructive Plutonic individual, I believe peace and salvation can only come through two avenues:
1. Being outfought, outwitted, outmaneuvered by another Plutonic person who gives them a taste of their own medicine.
2. Being shown they're not as powerful as they believe they are by karma. They must be left in the dark with no one coming to their aid because their reputation's been ruined over time.

It's best to have a combination of 1 and 2.

If a Plutonic person is too damaged, he / she will need at least one, preferably several life-changing experiences where recovery CANNOT be sought through the tools they have in their inventory. Their lies and tricks must not be able to save them. They'll have to stare at themselves straight in the eye, straight into the soul with no hope of escape. These experiences must hit them hard enough to the point where they have severe breakdowns due to a series of devastating blows to their very essence that they've built themselves with. Only when they have been reduced to ruins, their deepest and darkest motives burnt to ashes, might there be a remote possibility of them seeking forgiveness out of contrition for their wrongdoing.

In other words, you can't expect to use love and compassion to change the heart of a negatively Plutonic individual, they'll have to take it in the stomach and they have to take it hard before they might turn around and say: "You know, recently I've been thinking about everything in my life and in regards to you....... If you're willing, can we talk?" Even then, I feel there's no onus on their victims to hand out a mercy card to them, you simply don't just say "suck it up and give another chance to (insert name of abuser)" to someone who's continually suffered abuse without relent.

If you spill water on the floor, what are the chances of you picking up every single drop using your bare fingers? You have to bend, you have to kneel, that's tiring. Now that's a much simpler task than winning back the love and trust of someone you've constantly and purposefully tried to destroy, tried to sabotage, tried to wreck because of your inability to come to terms with your deep selfishness and utter foolishness. What does the Plutonian expect? The reality is that in order to make things right, there must be a rebirth. They must smash and tear themselves down and rebuild themselves into someone who's more positive, someone new (and hopefully better). That requires strength, constant reflection, focus, and discipline.

By acknowledging and accepting the need for both strength and vulnerability in both themselves and in others, they may come to realize that without weakness, we wouldn't need each other for companionship. By acknowledging that kindness and goodness will ultimately serve them much better, they might come to the understanding that they have a choice in directing their anger, their force into channels that are either constructive or destructive, and that these choices can be made starting not tomorrow, but TODAY. They need to live more well-balanced lives. There is a loaded rifle on the ground. You pick it up. Will you fire it out of fear, to conceal and silence your fear and weakness within, or will you fire it in courage, to fight and protect those in need?

I believe my experiences having gone through all of this abuse has indeed made me stronger and wiser. I might not have had some of the wisdom I now possess had I not gone through this psychological crucible. I've come to realize that raising kids is such a delicate art, even a dance, requiring careful attention from the artist, and not everyone would make a suitable parent. As a parent you must ask yourself what you're really teaching your child, what kind of person you want them to be, and whether your methods and wishes would actually bring peace to both you and them. It's extremely complicated and there really is no guidebook, though some "experts" may claim there is. There is always the human element and we aren't machines. However, I am utterly convinced that there are many people in the world who are simply unfit to take on the sacred duty of parenting because you're not just responsible for another Homos Sapiens Sapiens who happens to share around 50% of your genes, you are nurturing another body, heart, mind and soul that will go its own way (hopefully).

I've also learned that dysfunctional parents and relatives are often worse than friends, even strangers. Family isn't about blood, metaphorically speaking I disagree with the saying that "blood is thicker than water." Family must be about love and care, about acceptance, or else it's not family. We all make mistakes. I believe if you've mistakes as a parent, the kindest and most responsible thing to do is to ensure your kids have a better childhood and upbringing than you did, to not make them have to suffer because they're innocent. That is what I wish to be when I have my own kids.

On a concluding note, I believe that if your life force / life path cannot handle the intensity of such a strong and potentially destructive planetary energy like Pluto's, whether you come across it through people or through Plutonic themes in life (as a non-Plutonian), then it's best that some doors in life remain unopened. When led astray by twisted desire and greed, doors are opened with the hopes of fulfilling these desires. However, each successive door leads you further into the darkness, but your obsession and compulsion, and the issues that come with it, means it's not easy for you to stop. The deeper you wander, the further you'll be from your starting point, the more you'll be corrupted and eventually you'll lose sight of who you were before you descended into the abyss. Even if you are still aware of the old you, the guy or gal who was much simpler (and looking back, perhaps happier), returning to that place may well be a pipe dream because some things in life never leave you once you allow them to enter, and though many Plutonians may hate to admit it, most of it IS a result of their conscious choices.

With learning and awareness, I hope Plutonians can learn to minimize the negative impacts they have on you and on those close to you. This is what I wish all individuals who are letting Pluto control them with a grip of darkness will come to understand. And this shall be the challenge that I issue to all of the struggling Plutonians in the world. Will THEY, will YOU be up for it?
 
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Gemini888

Well-known member
I'm going to comment on something people may overlook in your mom's chart. If you try to find a final dispositor of the chart, Uranus and Venus will be the last things you come up with and they form a trine and are also in mutual reception to each other. Pluto's final dispositor is also Uranus/Venus.


So I don't really think it's her Pluto that is causing havoc on you, because I don't think Pluto is strong enough in her chart. I think it's a combination of 8H Chiron/Mars and Uranus/Venus. I've explained to you about Chiron and Mars. What I'm concerned right now is the Libra/Aqua energy. As I said before, some Aqua people can be really egocentric to the point of tyrannical. From what you describe, I suspect it could be the case here. Uranus trine Venus causes chaos in love and value. With both in air signs, your mom is overly detached and logical, and carry a big ego too, with Sun conj Venus right there. The scary thing about a tyrannical Aqua is that they are so sure they are the most "evolved" of humankind that they could care less whether what they are doing is harming anyone. They only care that they are doing something "revolutionary" and the whole world should listen to them. Aqua is a sign that doesn't care for people's opinion, so when its energy is used unhealthily, dictatorship is what you get.


Aqua's toxicity is different from Scorpio/Pluto toxicity in that the latter operates from its own suspicion and a strong need for connection, while the former operates from an extremely inflated ego and an unhealthy need to shine. So, do you ever feel like your mom is too detached for a human being? A kind of dictator who could care less for others' well-being?




(Well I'm actually defending Pluto here because I have 8H Pluto and I feel a lot of transformative power in it :tongue:)
 
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BaoSanniang

Well-known member
I'm going to comment on something people may overlook in your mom's chart. If you try to find a final dispositor of the chart, Uranus and Venus will be the last things you come up with and they form a trine and are also in mutual reception to each other. Pluto's final dispositor is also Uranus/Venus.


So I don't really think it's her Pluto that is causing havoc on you, because I don't think Pluto is strong enough in her chart. I think it's a combination of 8H Chiron/Mars and Uranus/Venus. I've explained to you about Chiron and Mars. What I'm concerned right now is the Libra/Aqua energy. As I said before, some Aqua people can be really egocentric to the point of tyrannical. From what you describe, I suspect it could be the case here. Uranus trine Venus causes chaos in love and value. With both in air signs, your mom is overly detached and logical, and carry a big ego too, with Sun conj Venus right there. The scary thing about a tyrannical Aqua is that they are so sure they are the most "evolved" of humankind that they could care less whether what they are doing is harming anyone. They only care that they are doing something "revolutionary" and the whole world should listen to them. Aqua is a sign that doesn't care for people's opinion, so when its energy is used unhealthily, dictatorship is what you get.


Aqua's toxicity is different from Scorpio/Pluto toxicity in that the latter operates from its own suspicion and a strong need for connection, while the former operates from an extremely inflated ego and an unhealthy need to shine. So, do you ever feel like your mom is too detached for a human being? A kind of dictator who could care less for others' well-being?







(Well I'm actually defending Pluto here because I have 8H Pluto and I feel a lot of transformative power in it :tongue:)



^^ Lol it's alright I don't mean to offend any of you here.

Well as for my mom, yes I do believe that deep down she has an inflated ego. She alternates between being extremely insecure and unsure of herself (though she'll never admit it) and feeling like she's queen of the whole galaxy. She's so erratic and inconsistent that I can never really seem to pin her down, and her inconsistency and lack of control over her energy (as you put it) is deeply unsettling and disturbing.

I admit that to some extent I also have my moments where I feel like I'm quite intellectually / morally above others (don't forget I have an Aquarius moon), but it usually happens when I am feeling very stressed and out-of-balance. There's always that bit of existential angst and skepticism in me, but so far it hasn't gotten to the point where I am unable to relate to anyone with compassion and understanding. In fact, people would describe me as being very kind and good-hearted, simple in character yet aware.
 
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