12th house

My Sun is 12h and rules the MC and even I don't want anything to do with prisons or institutions. :happy: Quite boring!

That's a good question.. I would say in general, yea. A bit like the 6th house, it has to do with being of service to others. I see the 12th house implies careers involving mysticism/spirituality, and the arts. So a bit like the 9th house as well.

But I think it's also connected to criminal lifestyles. I've known of people involved in drug dealing/gangs/shady lifestyles and looking at their charts there's always been a 12th house influence.
Ruler of the Tenth House in the Twelfth House
Your main career may have an element of working behind-the- scenes or could have some other kind of hidden quality to it.
Your career may involve working in large public institutions or helping other people altruistically. It might even be connected to the psychological fields. Some of your personal power is not readily perceived by other people, or you may just prefer to keep it to yourself
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm#hr10

so what is it you do professionally?? do you want to post your chart. What other aspects does your sun have? What other aspects does your MC receive? this is the problem with talking generics of planets in houses without taking into consideration the signs, aspects and the whole chart.....
 
I have saturn conjunct (almost exact) jupiter in twelve. I don't know about all the other interpretations, but the loneliness rings hella true with me. I feel more alone around others, like they just don't get me, misunderstanding my intentions or motivations, telling me how wrong I am is the worst- and it doesn't help that I am always looking for anothers perspective. When alone I feel my strongest, most focused, and sure of what I need to do; like being alone is all I need to do to find/realize the answer. This is true whether I am facing an issue that is personal, or completely to do with others. As far as relationships this does weigh heavily since it's impossible to be half of a whole relationship, while remaining alone. Not to mention I am a libra rising- so I think for me especially I have to find that perfect balance/ harmony between solitude and risking the critisizisms I face when involving myself with others. I haven't done as well as I would like. I do recognize though, that choosing the best others to involve myself with, as well as not taking so much to heart will help me leaps and bounds. Definately still learning, and depending on the gravity of the circumstances this waxes and wanes from nothing but to do it to, to the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
 
I have saturn conjunct (almost exact) jupiter in twelve. I don't know about all the other interpretations, but the loneliness rings hella true with me. I feel more alone around others, like they just don't get me, misunderstanding my intentions or motivations, telling me how wrong I am is the worst- and it doesn't help that I am always looking for anothers perspective. When alone I feel my strongest, most focused, and sure of what I need to do; like being alone is all I need to do to find/realize the answer. This is true whether I am facing an issue that is personal, or completely to do with others. As far as relationships this does weigh heavily since it's impossible to be half of a whole relationship, while remaining alone. Not to mention I am a libra rising- so I think for me especially I have to find that perfect balance/ harmony between solitude and risking the critisizisms I face when involving myself with others. I haven't done as well as I would like. I do recognize though, that choosing the best others to involve myself with, as well as not taking so much to heart will help me leaps and bounds. Definately still learning, and depending on the gravity of the circumstances this waxes and wanes from nothing but to do it to, to the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

Saturn in 12th can suggest an absent father or somone simply ineffectual in early childhood at setting boundaries, ethcis, morals. It can also give a feel of 'purposelessness' with conj to Jupiter it adds a see-saw action, shall I shan't I expand or have a go and usually saturn wins and reins in jupiter's jovial qualities.
Now libra rising although charming sociable it can be very restless, procrastinating and indecsive. Do you want to post your chart? have you used our search feature to research further threads discussing 12th planets?

How to attach a chart as thumbnail
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126
 
Absent father... Correct! See-Saw effect....correct! What else can you say, and thanks in advance. Going through some crazy stuff right now, and PLEASE don't go overboard with the wonderful Saturn return I'm having/had. I know how strongly it affects with my cap sun, not to mention its retrograde I think three times over my ascendant during it's return for me. :w00t: The issues I am having are all 12th house ish.. is that a word? Well, the issues are at least part 12th house, part other houses, 4 family, 9 legal, 7 marriage, and 1st self. Geez, typing this has me like, "Wow, I am a mess!" bc I even tried to minimalize the houses/issues. Brutally honest, though I guess I don't think of it so badly when its not plainly written in front of me bc it's unfortunately the story of my life- no pun intended.Gratitude!!!!!!
 

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Absent father... Correct! See-Saw effect....correct! What else can you say, and thanks in advance. Going through some crazy stuff right now, and PLEASE don't go overboard with the wonderful Saturn return I'm having/had. I know how strongly it affects with my cap sun, not to mention its retrograde I think three times over my ascendant during it's return for me. :w00t: The issues I am having are all 12th house ish.. is that a word? Well, the issues are at least part 12th house, part other houses, 4 family, 9 legal, 7 marriage, and 1st self. Geez, typing this has me like, "Wow, I am a mess!" bc I even tried to minimalize the houses/issues. Brutally honest, though I guess I don't think of it so badly when its not plainly written in front of me bc it's unfortunately the story of my life- no pun intended.Gratitude!!!!!!

can you repost taking off the asteriods and aspect lines, as it's hard to read....

age 5 Solar arc Saturn/jupiter conj Asc, is that when he disappeared?
 
You are GOOD!!!!! Yes age 5 is when he disappeared for good. Sorry about the chart, I've got a better one.

Pluto in 1st House – angular
· Tends to be a loner and hold innermost self aloof from those around. Penetrating gaze. Person power and will is indicated. Much more below the surface than is shown above. Very private person – holds secret
· Tunnel vision when concentrating will always finish things.
· Usually deep penetrating eyes. Intensity comes over ‑ even when being silent
· A marvelous sense of purpose is generally present, and must be expressed and fulfilled otherwise an inner seething and sense of dissatisfaction may be the result
· If Pluto is afflicted and could cause deep‑rooted psychological problems that can emerge as physical ailments.
· The nearer Pluto lies to the Ascending degree, the stronger its influence will be. The planet's influence will darken the personality, adding an incisive and deep, emotionally intense quality.

mars in 4th suggests one parent could have a bit of a temper, and square to pluto, really needs to do something physical, like sports, martial arts, mountain climbing, bungie jumping. Do you enjoy doing risky things?

another thing saturn square sun shows a lack of rapport with father and there has been some good threads on here recently, if you use our search feature...
 
You've got me laughing out loud! I have been told "if looks could kill...", men in particular always ask, "whats wrong?", or my fave- "it can't be that bad!", and the one that makes my look even worse, is "Smile!". I never thought myself secretive until last few years when I have held secrets literally, but I have come to understand that I hold secrets from myself, by disassociating mostly. Yes emotions have become physical manifestations, and I'll leave it at that:unsure:. I do love "risky" things, although I don't see them as risky; like mountain climbing I just don't like to think there's anything I can't do and I don't even think about the risk...well other than the excitement aspect of it. This is fleeting though, bc I don't allow myself the satisfaction of accomplishment, I never thought I would fail in the first place, let alone that risky things don't really require too much more of me than effort. An example would be skydiving- there's no mental, fear, or what have you to overcome. You just jump, and in my case hope it scares the **** out of ya-so you want to come back for more. One last thing in regards to what you said about my dad, I have resought a relationship with him numerous times, spaced out over years and circumstance. He always says he wants nothing more than to have a relationship, and even shows favoritism towards me out of 6 daughters:sad:. I have gone well beyond what I should do to nurture a relationship with him only to be re-abandoned by his complete apathy in the matter-on all fronts. For example, I have four sons that he could be a much needed grandfather to. So, I've allowed myself to think that he could vindicate his not being there for me if he would just be there for them. Before I did the same thing with my younger siblings. I have excused his behavior, by saying,"well, he may have been absent as a child, but he's changed now, so it's because he lives far (100 miles) away"- just one excuse I've given him. My piont with all this info, is that I've never really seen it as such a defining factor-his not being around. If anything I have resented my mother for what she exposed me to by being the one that had to stick around. Maybe this is that disassociation thing I talked about in the earlier post. I have made way to many attempts at having him back, and I do remember that it was traumatizing when he finally did go, for me to say "oh, it's not that big a deal". But honestly, in the grand scheme of my life of 30 years, it's far from a big deal, and I can even see some bright spots bc of it. Am I just keeping yet another secret from myself or what? Lastly, THANKS DUDE, I am so grateful for your time, and interest in my issues. May the universe repay your kindness 100 fold!:biggrin:
 

Munch

Well-known member
I'd be curious what degree your ascendant is on. It sounds like you have the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction that most of us in our late 20's though 30's have in Libra. I use whole signs which would actually bring the conjunction down into your first house and possibly put it conjunct your ascendant (which is where I have it). If that's the case look for Jupiter to expand the Saturn influence until after your first Saturn Return. For me it's begun to equalize the influence and make it work for me as opposed to exalted Saturn absolutely trouncing me....though there is still much work to do. :)
 

Munch

Well-known member
Pluto in 1st House – angular
· Tends to be a loner and hold innermost self aloof from those around. Penetrating gaze. Person power and will is indicated. Much more below the surface than is shown above. Very private person – holds secret
· Tunnel vision when concentrating will always finish things.
· Usually deep penetrating eyes. Intensity comes over ‑ even when being silent
· A marvelous sense of purpose is generally present, and must be expressed and fulfilled otherwise an inner seething and sense of dissatisfaction may be the result
· If Pluto is afflicted and could cause deep‑rooted psychological problems that can emerge as physical ailments.
· The nearer Pluto lies to the Ascending degree, the stronger its influence will be. The planet's influence will darken the personality, adding an incisive and deep, emotionally intense quality.

mars in 4th suggests one parent could have a bit of a temper, and square to pluto, really needs to do something physical, like sports, martial arts, mountain climbing, bungie jumping. Do you enjoy doing risky things?

another thing saturn square sun shows a lack of rapport with father and there has been some good threads on here recently, if you use our search feature...


So what about Pluto conjunct POF in the first? This is something that I keep looking at and thinking it must point to something but I am not sure what.

Maybe it further emphasizes the fact that Pluto is a huge part of my life as it shall transit ALL of my planets by conjunction with the exception of Saturn/Jupiter by the time I retire. Constant rebirth and transformation from top to bottom.
 
So what about Pluto conjunct POF in the first? This is something that I keep looking at and thinking it must point to something but I am not sure what.

Maybe it further emphasizes the fact that Pluto is a huge part of my life as it shall transit ALL of my planets by conjunction with the exception of Saturn/Jupiter by the time I retire. Constant rebirth and transformation from top to bottom.

I went to look at your chart in your profile and POF and pluto are 5' apart and *almost* conj 2nd house cusp at 6' away. so I'd be tempted to say look at both interpretations ie: 1 & 2nd houses.


1st House
Your joy will come from trusting in your own unique approach to life and acting independently. Cultivate self-sufficiency and self-determination. You are the master of your destiny! Your ultimate fortune is in expressing the wholeness of your one self.
2nd House
Your joy will come from manifesting what you truly value. But first you will have to discover what that is. You will know it because you will cultivate that which is precious and abides. You can be blessed materially if your endeavors reflect your sincere values.
http://www.astroresources.com/fortune.htm

I can't find any resources for pluto conj POF, so it could suggest at some point major transformation of beliefs (2nd) and how you integrate them and project them outwards Asc....
Ruler of the Second House in the First House
What you have as far as the money you earn and your possessions influences your outlook on life, as well as your self image to some extent. Your early childhood probably influenced your value system and your sense of self worth.
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm#hr2

in your parallel chart are you aware that venus/sun are parallel as if conjunct. I have this natally and may help to ground the venus/neptune conjunction.

I do feel your pluto square mars at 9' is too wide and out of orb for me at least. With lots of planets in air and fire are you a bit of a bookworm?
 

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spoke to soon ---:biggrin: as finally I just found one for you..
If Pluto is conjunct the Part of Fortune, the potency of Pluto will be enhanced in its positive forms. The person with this conjunction can find happiness and success in all forms of detective work, ranging from crime solving to investigating the atom, from studying genetic engineering to manipulating DNA to cure cancer and AIDS. He can study the mysteries of life in order to transform and improve life on Earth for all mankind.
http://www.arlenekramer.net/astrology8.asp

so there you go you need to 'play dectective' more
 

Munch

Well-known member
HAha. Just call me gumshoe. :)

I also agree the Pluto/Mars square is too wide. I don't give it much thought.

I'd never noticed that Venus and sun were parallel. Very interesting especially considering the aspects that my sun receives. It also explains why I identify so much with my 'likes' and tend to see them as 'me.'
 
You don't see much of her in public eye and I think she really values her privacy espec for her family and children.

having sun in 12th can suggest craving time alone, it could be on a yacht in the middle of ocean for example or institution or just doing some sport (on their own) they all need some alone time to recharge. They seem to have a inner warmth and confidence

Sun in 12th quite often are bullied at school, but too ashamed to discuss it openly

saturn in 12th or ruling 12th can suggest an absent, missing or simply effectual father, but it can also lead a sense of purposelessness.Saturn, can indicate deep‑seated loneliness, fear or guilt, despair or negativity which may be difficult to confront. But it also shows the ability to apply yourself with determination and/or *concen*tration to some SOLITARY TASK ‑ perhaps to your work, which helps you to bring order to the internal chaos.

http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoundation/dkfArtTwelfthHouse.htm




Yes. I totally agree with this...saturn in the 12th, so, so painful when you are young, and then eventually can be the key to having the gravitas and determination to guide your own life. There is no need for anyone else to ever captain your ship, there is no longer anything to fear...you go through the wilderness of your soul and emerge self-posessed.
 

m0ney*p0wer*re$pect

Well-known member
Like all water houses, it needs some form of nurturing before it expressses energies there. It's how we confine ourselves and shut off the real world to exist in a world where we torture ourselves with an over active imagination, clinging to the past, addictions to kill off or help express these energies, phobias created out of the past. All the things we torture ourself with there blinds us to the solution. We pity ourselves and self destruct from holding in a vast reservoir of energy.

But on the flip side, our expression of the energies there become unique and stronger as we mature we kill off those things that constrain us. They say this house also represents wild horses, makes sense. We can have a vast pool of energy here that we may be blind to until we need it. Saturn here can make someone overly determined and rigid. I have a mars in libra there, and i am very competitive

We are our own worst enemy and the enemy hiding from us is us
 

Poupoupidou

Well-known member
I had always seen the 12th house as the subconscious...what is underneath...even the spirit in a way....I had a mentor for a few years and he told me to forget what i knew of the 12th house and see it as the house of the mind and also to look at the planets in this house to see what the parents took away- It makes sense to me but I also think it is more...

The 12th house is surely not the house of what parent took away from us. Our own deamons may sometimes be related to a bad relationship with parents, but that is not automatic. We may be the source of our own failure, uncounscioulsy. I don't think the 12th house can be limited to the mind too. It's is also about the 6th sense and connections beyond logic.
 

reyvick

Member
Taking advantage of the opportunity to share some Brazilian poetry.


Carlos Drummond de Andrade was the most celebrated Brazilian poet in the 20th century and his influence in Brazilian literature lives on beyond his grave up to current times.

He was a triple Scorpio, with Sun/Moon/Mercury/Venus/North Node in the 12th house. A perfect example that just goes to show that people with a packed 12th house can be very good writers.

Mars (ASC ruler) in Virgo, further proves his methodicalness with his writing style.

Right below is one of my favorite poems written by him, entitled ''Love''.



''What can one creature among other creatures
do but love?
love and forget,
love and mislove,
love, unlove, love?
always, and with wide eyes, love?

What, I ask, can a loving soul
alone in the universal rotation do
but spin with everything else, and love?
love what the wave brings to shore,
what it buries, and what in the ocean breeze
is salt, or the need for love, or mere longing?

Love solemnly the desert palms,
the act of surrender, or expectant adoration...
And love what's rough or barren,
a flowerless vase, an iron land,
the unfeeling breast, the street from a dream, a bird of prey...

This is our destiny: to spread unmeasured love
among treacherous or worthless things,
to give without limits to a total ingratitude,
and to search with hopeful patience, in love's empty
shell, for still more love.

To love our very lack of love, and to love in our dryness
the implicit water, and the tacit kiss, and that infinite thrist
.''


His chart below, if anyone wants to take a look.
 

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muchacho

Well-known member
The 12th house is surely not the house of what parent took away from us. Our own deamons may sometimes be related to a bad relationship with parents, but that is not automatic. We may be the source of our own failure, uncounscioulsy. I don't think the 12th house can be limited to the mind too. It's is also about the 6th sense and connections beyond logic.
1st house represents conscious mind, 3rd lower mind, 6th unconscious mind, 9th house higher mind and 8th and 12th house subconscious mind.
 
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