Change of appearence

I

I cee

Well-known member
Wasn't sure where to put this question, so MOdS, feel free to move!

Wondering what and when transits and progressions have a positive effect on chart when wanting to change appearence/style?
Like, new hairstyle, new outfit,cosmetic surgery.
Something NEW to the OUTER IMAGE!
 
miquar

miquar

Well-known member
Transits and progressions involving the Ascendant, MC, Sun and Venus, would perhaps be the ones to watch for, keeping in mind the issues of rulership (eg someone with Virgo rising might go for a new image with transiting Jupiter on their natal Mercury.) Also the natural houses of the Sun and Venus - the 5th and 7th, especially if one is trying to attract a mate through this image change.

If the image change involves an alignment with the collective in some waym then Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune all seem to me to be likely candidtes. Saturn may suddenly feel a need to change image in an attempt to appear more respectable, or in some cases because the respectable image one has been maintaining now feels futile. Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune might also feel the need to reach out to be part of a group, which might involve am image change. Since transits to Urans and Neptune are less significant, perhaps natal connections to these planets, which are then triggered by the transit, may be more likely to produce an image change, although something like progressed Sun of Venus aspecting Uranus or Neptune could give rise the need to chang image.

Mars may be involved it the person decides they need an image which shows how potent they are. Mercury might be involved it the person decides they need to look more intelligent.

Plastic surgery is probably a more complex issue, as there are often underlying wounds which one is trying to purge oneself of - Michael Jackson being a famous example. In cases such as this perhaps the Moon is more likely to be involved, or perhaps the 2nd house. Chiron also springs to mind as the planet which feels the gap between the reality of life and the ideal.

Some people are naturally inclined to keep changing their image, while some would only do it at significant junctures in their life.
 
I

I cee

Well-known member
miquar said:
Transits and progressions involving the Ascendant, MC, Sun and Venus, would perhaps be the ones to watch for, keeping in mind the issues of rulership (eg someone with Virgo rising might go for a new image with transiting Jupiter on their natal Mercury.) Also the natural houses of the Sun and Venus - the 5th and 7th, especially if one is trying to attract a mate through this image change.

If the image change involves an alignment with the collective in some waym then Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune all seem to me to be likely candidtes. Saturn may suddenly feel a need to change image in an attempt to appear more respectable, or in some cases because the respectable image one has been maintaining now feels futile. Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune might also feel the need to reach out to be part of a group, which might involve am image change. Since transits to Urans and Neptune are less significant, perhaps natal connections to these planets, which are then triggered by the transit, may be more likely to produce an image change, although something like progressed Sun of Venus aspecting Uranus or Neptune could give rise the need to chang image.

Mars may be involved it the person decides they need an image which shows how potent they are. Mercury might be involved it the person decides they need to look more intelligent.

Plastic surgery is probably a more complex issue, as there are often underlying wounds which one is trying to purge oneself of - Michael Jackson being a famous example. In cases such as this perhaps the Moon is more likely to be involved, or perhaps the 2nd house. Chiron also springs to mind as the planet which feels the gap between the reality of life and the ideal.

Some people are naturally inclined to keep changing their image, while some would only do it at significant junctures in their life.
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Thats very interesting Miquar and some thoughts I didn't think of.
With the persons sun,moon, asc,mars,mc involved. How would you determine the outcome if the natal chart has afflictions to these planets and points.
For example my venus is squaring pluto. Would this be beneficial or not?
Also you mention jupiter to the asc, but would this be negative if jupiter were there squaring or conjuncting, maybe enlarging or grossly changing image for the worst?
I read somewhere that a natal venus/saturn was a good sign that changing the image would be beneficial as saturns discipline to venus brings about good results,enhancing self image?
I don't have venus/saturn aspects, but I have saturn in taurus, would this also apply maybe?
Myself would think mars is involved or maybe pluto or uranus in 1st.
A change in style often renews me.
 
miquar

miquar

Well-known member
Hi. I think an afflicted planet would come up against fears during process of change (there were probably fears around the afflicted planet anyway, but the fear of change tends to be greater than the fears around what already is). There might be a resistance to change, followed by a sudden and over-the-top change due to the build up of energy over time.

Venus square Pluto obviously has a need to change its sense of what feels beautiful and worthwhile every now and again. In order to feel beautiful and worthwhile, we may turn to our physical appearance (and to what this symbolises to us, and what kinds of reactions it will arouse in others). Venus Pluto probably tends to strongly resist attempts by others to influence such Venusian issues as these, but may sometimes attract people into life who try to do just this. Thus the hard aspect between these planets can manifest as power struggles around values and beauty. There is sometimes rivalry with the Mother, which sets complexes in motion which help to bring about some of the textbook interpretations of this chart factor. I would say that Venus square Pluto is beneficial for being able to change one's image - there may be struggles involved, but the consciousness-raising tendency of the square helps to shed any destructive tendencies in a way which the trine between these planets might not. Venus and Pluto get on well in myth, which is an indication that these planets can join forces relatively easily no matter what the aspect.

I think that hard aspects from transiting Jupiter to the ascendant would probably only be problematic if there were already tensions in the chart. All in all I think they would be better for making changes than the soft aspects.

We always need to check for stagnation where Saturn is placed, so Venus Saturn could benefit from periodically taking stock of how the sense of beauty and value have coalesced in the individual's life, and whether or not there is a need to let go of any fears and attitudes which are inhibiting the experience of self-love and pleasure. Saturn in Taurus could be similar in some ways, because it suggests a need to establish a set of values and secure that which is valued in order to feel shielded against the vicissitudes of life. Again, there is the possibility of doing this too rigidly so that the Taurian potential to build and enjoy is inhibited.

I think any transit or progression challenges the current sense of self in some way, and any change in the sense of self might be helped along or marked by a change in the way we adorn ourselves, which can include posture and vocabulary as well as clothes and hair style.


I think Mars can be great for giving the courage to make changes of any kind, but generally speaking I don't think that, in itself, it spends too much time in front of the mirror. Its more interested in seeing its potency reflected back to it in the affects which it has had on the world around it.

I think transiting planets through the houses are more likely to have an affect when they cross an angle, and when the aspect another planet from the house which they are transiting. Otherwise, it would be a very long and drawn out image change for someone with a slow planet through the first house.

These are just my thoughts, anyway..
 
I

I cee

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miquar said:
Hi. I think an afflicted planet would come up against fears during process of change (there were probably fears around the afflicted planet anyway, but the fear of change tends to be greater than the fears around what already is). There might be a resistance to change, followed by a sudden and over-the-top change due to the build up of energy over time.

Venus square Pluto obviously has a need to change its sense of what feels beautiful and worthwhile every now and again. In order to feel beautiful and worthwhile, we may turn to our physical appearance (and to what this symbolises to us, and what kinds of reactions it will arouse in others). Venus Pluto probably tends to strongly resist attempts by others to influence such Venusian issues as these, but may sometimes attract people into life who try to do just this. Thus the hard aspect between these planets can manifest as power struggles around values and beauty. There is sometimes rivalry with the Mother, which sets complexes in motion which help to bring about some of the textbook interpretations of this chart factor. I would say that Venus square Pluto is beneficial for being able to change one's image - there may be struggles involved, but the consciousness-raising tendency of the square helps to shed any destructive tendencies in a way which the trine between these planets might not. Venus and Pluto get on well in myth, which is an indication that these planets can join forces relatively easily no matter what the aspect.

I think that hard aspects from transiting Jupiter to the ascendant would probably only be problematic if there were already tensions in the chart. All in all I think they would be better for making changes than the soft aspects.

We always need to check for stagnation where Saturn is placed, so Venus Saturn could benefit from periodically taking stock of how the sense of beauty and value have coalesced in the individual's life, and whether or not there is a need to let go of any fears and attitudes which are inhibiting the experience of self-love and pleasure. Saturn in Taurus could be similar in some ways, because it suggests a need to establish a set of values and secure that which is valued in order to feel shielded against the vicissitudes of life. Again, there is the possibility of doing this too rigidly so that the Taurian potential to build and enjoy is inhibited.

I think any transit or progression challenges the current sense of self in some way, and any change in the sense of self might be helped along or marked by a change in the way we adorn ourselves, which can include posture and vocabulary as well as clothes and hair style.


I think Mars can be great for giving the courage to make changes of any kind, but generally speaking I don't think that, in itself, it spends too much time in front of the mirror. Its more interested in seeing its potency reflected back to it in the affects which it has had on the world around it.

I think transiting planets through the houses are more likely to have an affect when they cross an angle, and when the aspect another planet from the house which they are transiting. Otherwise, it would be a very long and drawn out image change for someone with a slow planet through the first house.

These are just my thoughts, anyway..
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Thankyou for your response!
So you think that squares and conjunctions are more likely to push one to change, that makes sense to me but in terms of outcome, would this ultimately be fruitful for an appearence change or is it more about what planets are involved in the chart and how well they merge with the transits and progressions.
I'm still rusty on this!
So because of myth you believe that venus and pluto are 'friends'?
I wouldn't of put these two together, but I get where youre coming from.
I would also feel that mars would be an instigator of change being a fast planet and representing the ego/body, health/vigour.
When saturn went over my asc, I did improve my physique, but not in an venusian way, like hairstyle, clothes etc
I guess its hard to pinpoint any one planet, as style can be different to different people and what sets them off on a change of image, like you say must show on the angles or maybe what planet they are most influenced by in their natal chart is being set off by transit or progression.
I always get my hair cut when the moon is intaurus or libra, thats just a thing I do, its worked up to now:smile:
 
I

I cee

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I have been thinking back to hair colour changes and styles, and when they occured and actually there was a link for me with jupiter transiting my 8th house in aries.
Maybe thats something to do with transformation and jupiter being my suns ruler, the 8th is ruled by pluto which sits near my asc and squares my sun and venus?
So lets say one has jupiter in the 1st house squ their venus or sun, would then a transit of their suns or venus ruler thru the 9th make a style change?

Can anyone else see a correlation to this?

I need to go back and look at what everything else was doing, progressed moon, venus etc and other transits.
 
miquar

miquar

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Hi. I think that its impossible to make hard and fast rules about transiting aspects because it all comes back to what is in the birth chart. I think that problems with an image change that goes wrong in some way are quite likely to be linked with a part of the chart being triggered which is still immature because it hasn't been used very much so far in adapting to life. So some people are naturally able to pull off a stylish look or to just look natural from a very young age, while others seem to never quite pull it off - seeming awkward or discordant in their physical appearance. I'm not sure how easy it would be to distinguish these two types from birth charts - my guess is generally not very easily, if at all. But if someone was awkward or whatever in their outer appearance, then once you know that about them, and something about their general sense of themselves in connection with this, then it should be more obvious where in the chart that comes from.

It could be that squares to Venus sometimes manifest as trying too hard to look a certain way, and that trines are more relaxed and natural, generally speaking. But it could also be that trines get stuck in a rut and don't question whether their image is a reflection of their deeper self. I don't know what the answers are. These are just ideas.

Its interesting that your style changes came with transiting Jupiter in the 8th. With Pluto linked to the ascendant, Sun and Venus, one would expect you to associate transformation with the way you present yourself to the world. Another person might associate it with another dimension of life altogether. And then when Jupiter brought a sense of expansiveness to the part of your psyche concerned with the release into consciousness of previously hidden parts of yourself (the 8th house) you underwent a transformation which manifested (at least in part) through the image you present to the world. (If I get the gist of what you're saying).

I think the extrapolation to a something similar with Jupiter in the 9th is entirely possible (though only one possibility of many of course). In this case transiting Jupiter in the 9th house would bring a desire to expand one's philosophy or broad perspective on life, and since natal Jupiter is tied to the ascendant, Sun and Venus, this person might well need to present an image to the world which reflects their philosophy or perspective. This could involve starting to wear clothes connected with a different culture, thus making the statement that their view of life is broader than the views engendered by her/his native culture. Or it could involve dressing in orange or purple or whatever to show alignment with a particular philosophy.

I'm not sure that a transit of Sun or Venus through the 9th would be strong enough to instigate such a change. But it may trigger something else??
 
miquar

miquar

Well-known member
I cee said:
So because of myth you believe that venus and pluto are 'friends'?
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Its interesting that Aphrodite is one of the only friends Hades has in Greek myth. It is Aphrodite who notices that Kore is too naive and needs to be initiated into a broader experience of life, so she gets Eros to make Hades fall in love with Kore Hades abducts Kore (Spring Maiden) into his realm and she becomes Persephone (she who loves the dark earth). Pluto gets on better with the Taurian side of Venus than the Libran side though I think.
 
I

I cee

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I agree with the pluto and taurus, yes! I was thinking more of a libran venus as more superfluous and nothing in common with pluto.
A change from inside oneself often shows on the outside as well, that make perfect sense.
There is no one set answer.
I do feel my pluto, and as its conjunct the asc and squ sun/venus. To me its a strange but novel sense of wanting to not follow the herd, maybe thats uranus as well.
I have almost an overwhelming desire to wanting to do the opposite to whats expected, which could be, by some to seem immature but its there in me and softened now as I get older.
Also if I was to get ready for a posh event, there was also a part that unless I could be presented exactly how I wanted via clothes etc, if one part of that went askew, I would ditch everything and go the opposite and turn up in a totally unapropiate clothing.
I've done this elsewhere in my life too, its a kind of self sabotage thats hard for me to get my head round, when it happens.
Its almost like the rebelling teenager in me never grew up.......or maybe thats saturn wagging its finger at me, wanting me to 'fit in' now I'm older and am supposed to be 'mature' and 'responsible'. Whatever that means?
Anyway I'm rambling
Thankyou Miquar for your lovely feedback, most welcome!
 
miquar

miquar

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I guess its good to have access to the immature teenager and the responsible adult and be able to use each as appropriate.

The thing about either wanting to pull off the look perfectly or not try at all sounds Saturnian, because Saturn can fear failure and if one doesn't try then no-one can say that one tried and made a pig's ear of it! Saturnian self-sabotage can involve being afraid to try (eg just dressing down), but it can also compel one to do something that doesn't feel right (eg going all out to create a look which is above criticism). You have perhaps sometimes felt a little uncomfortable when dressing down and perhaps sometimes felt a little uncomfortable going all out to look the part. In both cases, the chosen route could be seen as a reaction to Saturnian fear - as Saturn's fears fall away, we are less likely to be worried about such things, though Saturn's healthy respect for etiquette may still result in dressing up where appropriate. As we find a greater sense of inner strength and integrity, we know how to strike a balance between respect for the expectations of others, and being ourselves. Then we feel comfortable with the result because we don't care about being criticised, and we also have a clear conscience about our choice.

Pluto on the ascendant aspecting the Sun and Venus could have issues around needing to feel in control of one's own appearance, as I think I mentioned earlier in this thread. But even this connects naturally to Saturn, regardless of whether aspects link Saturn to the Pluto ascendant Sun Venus configuration. When Saturn is well developed everything else in the chart flows better, especially the connection with the outer planets.
 
I

I cee

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I have read that, about saturn being important and learning the needed lessons in a natal chart.
But....I either don't get the correct grasp of saturn or I not understanding your view, I'm not sure.
I would of seen saturn as. "I'm going to this posh event and I need to look respectable and accepted and fit in with the norm"
I would see a virgo asc with pluto asc as I want to look the 'best' I can, not just blending in, I want to make an impression.
What I mean by dressing inapropiatley, as opposed to just fitting in, so I go to the other extreme, which still makes an 'impression, but in an uranus way, in my eyes, ripped jeans, cool sleazy t-shirt and immpeccable make-up!
Which is actually what makes me feel comfortable and relaxed.
Its others who choose to make one feel they are not welcome by ridiculous dress codes for such functions.
So its a rebellion against whats expected that irritates the hell out of me.

I have a good saturn, I know how to be responsible when needed out of respect, say a funeral etc to someone I don't know that well.
I know how be responsible. I can work hard and know this a lessons needed in this world to survive. I am very practical and realistic also.
My uranus just wants to see everyone as they truly are, not a carbon copy of peer pressure and societys blinkered view of what someone should look like.

I suppose as this rattles me, it must be something that I need to look at in my chart, or something is triggering me at the moment, although its a long held belief of mine.
I love those who are not afraid to be noticed by something unusual, but I also have a great respect for some traditions and I like well made clothes and lately like to indulge in pampering myself when I can afford. (this is new to me, usually had great guilt about this)
My virgo respects the craft,my pluto twists it and uranus just does it his way.

Going slightly off topic now......sorry.


Just out of interest Miquar....??
Have you, or can you remember a time when you had a change of style and can you remember the planets involved at the time?

Did you rebel as a teenager and did your style show this?

Apparently not every teenager rebels.
 
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miquar

miquar

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I cee said:
I would of seen saturn as. "I'm going to this posh event and I need to look respectable and accepted and fit in with the norm"
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Yes I think this is a common Saturn response. But if we feel insecure about trying to fit in with the norm we might deny the validity of the norm and make a meal of our differentness - as a defence against a sense of inadequacy. When there is a strong Uranus in the chart, this defence is perhaps more likely because Uranus is inherently afraid of too much conformity anyway.

I cee said:
I would see a virgo asc with pluto asc as I want to look the 'best' I can, not just blending in, I want to make an impression.
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Virgo isn't a sign that really wants to make an impression as such, but the Virgoan awareness of being a unit in a larger world could manifest as a need to dress for the occasion. Pluto is more concerned with survival than impressing anyone, though the two may be linked in some people's minds. Power-dressing or dressing in a sexually provocative way can both be very Plutonian if they are aimed manipulating the responses of others. Pluto, like Uranus, may also like to shock and challenge the norm.

I cee said:
What I mean by dressing inapropiatley, as opposed to just fitting in, so I go to the other extreme, which still makes an 'impression, but in an uranus way, in my eyes, ripped jeans, cool sleazy t-shirt and immpeccable make-up!
Which is actually what makes me feel comfortable and relaxed.
Its others who choose to make one feel they are not welcome by ridiculous dress codes for such functions.
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I don't see this as a problem, but if there is Saturnian fear involved on some level, of the sort I mentioned above, then its good to at least be aware of it.

I cee said:
So its a rebellion against whats expected that irritates the hell out of me.
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Possible indication that there are fears involved. Part of the defence can be contempt to those who do seem to fit in.

I cee said:
I have a good saturn, I know how to be responsible when needed out of respect, say a funeral etc to someone I don't know that well.
I know how be responsible. I can work hard and know this a lessons needed in this world to survive. I am very practical and realistic also.
My uranus just wants to see everyone as they truly are, not a carbon copy of peer pressure and societys blinkered view of what someone should look like.
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This sounds healthy to me.


I did rebel (Animal Liberation Front, etc.) and I did dress in a way which was fitting for the circles I was moving in and in way which a typical person would say wasn't respectable. The thing about Uranus is that rebellion isn't its core value, but rather something like Truth. Uranus will conform to a group which shares is vision of the Truth. I was part of a fraternity that was rebelling against the oppression of animals. You get a lot of squabbling in these movements though (more with animal rights than with the Green movement for some reason) - too many people with Uranus-Saturn tensions who see oppression everywhere and rebel accordingly (and in doing so are unconsciously trying to become the authority themselves).

I cut all my hair off some time around Spring/Summer 1993, I think. Transiting Pluto was around my Sun-Venus-Uranus configuration. It was a relief not to have any hair to mess with as I'd tended to slip into vanity as a response to feeling very self-conscious. So there was a kind of purging going on in a sense, and I was free (Uranus) from having to deal with the hair dimension of reality.
 
I

I cee

Well-known member
Yes, the irony of uranus, it can be quite blinkered in its negative stance.
But truth and freedom in its pure form.

Its interesting that the animal movement you were involved in, you consider that as rebeling?
I don't quite understand, as anything involved with that has a meaning and purpose for ones views and morals, how is that rebeling.

.....so now...you can wash and go:smile:

"the hair dimention of reality" (I like that)
 
Caro

Caro

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A friend of mine had a saturn transit to asc in libra(ruled by venus) and she totally changed her image. short hair cut , new colour. it transformed her. She was almost unrecognisable it took years off her. it really suited her. she has natally saturn sq venus.She has just had a heavy saturn transit to 12th(pluto conj uranus in virgo in 12th)

a transit of saturn to a virgo asc would be different.

I have this transit coming up and am thinking of a haircut - have found an expensive hairdresser - but got to find the cash. (saturn in scoripio - got to watch the money)
 
I

I cee

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Thats interesting Caro!
If cash is a problem, you could always lend your head and hair to your local hairdressing college.
Thts what I do, I love the atmosphere there and I get to chinwag with the girls and boys and it of course helps them with their hairdressing skills and its a lot cheaper.
I have never had a bad experience as the teachers are always hovering around and take over if theres problems.

Maybe that has something to do with my mercury ruled virgo asc (merc in capricorn)
 
miquar

miquar

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The Animal Rights stuff was on one level just the need to make a difference, but on another level a kind of war against the Establishment that condones and protects animal abusers, and the corporate greed which fuels it. A lot of what went on was outside of the law, and aimed at shaking up the system. Its a movement which is deeply anarchistic. At the time I was involved, the Animal Rights movement was considered by the Establishment to be the second largest threat to law and order after the Irish Republican movement. So in that sense its a very rebellious set-up.
 
Caro

Caro

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Yes good thought. I did used to go to student colleges when I myself was a student and had one of the best hair cuts ever. it did take 3 hours though! :smile: Im afraid Im a little impatient these days. progressed sun in aries(conj uranus transit so also a little antsy)

need to give it some more thought and investigating (scorpio asc).
 
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