Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

blacksun?

Well-known member
Why don't wealthy artists run for office? Because the drive for producing art is completely different from the kind of drive that takes one into politics. Both can carry Neptunian influences, but each stems from a different kind of purpose. Artists want to be free. You have to be a social hooker to be a politician.

Im not so sure about that. You have to be a social hooker to be in Hollywood, as well.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
^^^ This is an example of how I sometimes wonder if all of our technological advancements really have made us more "free," or whether it's done more harm by reinforcing barriers between people and the natural world around them. Probably a mix of both.

Humanity seems to have put al its efforts in dominating and where that requires it eradicating nature. This is about to change, this attitude.
 

sadge

Well-known member
Im not so sure about that. You have to be a social hooker to be in Hollywood, as well.

Hollywood is it's own political system too. We are thinking of different kinds of artists in reference to the question.

All artists and politicians try to actualize a vision. I am an artist, but there is no way I could remain authentic to my chosen crafts and honor the spirit of my vision within a system that operates in a framework of competing self-interests. I don't have a desire to compromise myself by becoming a social hooker. I want to create art...that is the place I go when it's time to be free. Politicians are puppets. I am not a puppet to be swayed by public opinion or media. I would rather direct the puppets. It's possible to affect change from a variety of different angles in life. Scientists, novelists, scholars, poets, social movement organizers, teachers.... some of the most influential people have deliberately stayed out of the political game because they are well aware of the cost to be in it.

Some people in life are driven to make change in the world around them. The reasons for the underlying drive will vary between people. And some people just change the world around them by being themselves or through the quality of their work. Agents of change come in a variety of different ways.

I believe that the world leaders we admire or criticize may appear to hold the power, but they are chained down in ways that most genuine artists are not designed to tolerate. If you've observed that artists stay out of politics (not all, but most), then there's probably a reason why.

On a side note, this convo reminds me of a time I worked with a friend filmmaker to create an educational/promotional piece. I was amazed by the power that is harnessed in the editing room. Cutting at just the right place had exponential effects in capturing meaning. This is similar to politics....knowing how to frame your position against an audience. There are plenty of similarities between Hollywood and politics. And a handful of good people in both camps. But the nature of the game -- social prostitution -- is the same.
 

sadge

Well-known member
[Adding] It's Legalized child abuse. Doctors sworn to "first, do no harm" who participate in this, should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

Unfortunately such principles are not a part of the cost/benefit structure.

(Yes, I see the relation to Age of Cap versus Aqua. Also noticing how some people will be the agents of change.)
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Hollywood is it's own political system too. We are thinking of different kinds of artists in reference to the question.

All artists and politicians try to actualize a vision. I am an artist, but there is no way I could remain authentic to my chosen crafts and honor the spirit of my vision within a system that operates in a framework of competing self-interests. I don't have a desire to compromise myself by becoming a social hooker. I want to create art...that is the place I go when it's time to be free. Politicians are puppets. I am not a puppet to be swayed by public opinion or media. I would rather direct the puppets. It's possible to affect change from a variety of different angles in life. Scientists, novelists, scholars, poets, social movement organizers, teachers.... some of the most influential people have deliberately stayed out of the political game because they are well aware of the cost to be in it.

Some people in life are driven to make change in the world around them. The reasons for the underlying drive will vary between people. And some people just change the world around them by being themselves or through the quality of their work. Agents of change come in a variety of different ways.

I believe that the world leaders we admire or criticize may appear to hold the power, but they are chained down in ways that most genuine artists are not designed to tolerate. If you've observed that artists stay out of politics (not all, but most), then there's probably a reason why.

Problem is there have never been admirable word-leaders. Trump is admirable to me precisely because isn't a sanctimonious world-butcher but just a man, an actual human of flesh and blood. So I see his presidency as a beginning of a phase where actual persons, actual people with actual souls, can run for executive power. But of course you are right that there will always be a fundamental gap between the artist spirit and the political spirit, and it will be rare that someone bridges that gap and represents both truth and power.

On a side note, this convo reminds me of a time I worked with a friend filmmaker to create an educational/promotional piece. I was amazed by the power that is harnessed in the editing room. Cutting at just the right place had exponential effects in capturing meaning. This is similar to politics....knowing how to frame your position against an audience. There are plenty of similarities between Hollywood and politics. And a handful of good people in both camps. But the nature of the game -- social prostitution -- is the same.

Yes. Ive worked in the editing room for 10 years. It is where the magic happens. You can often change a news story to mean the exact opposite by cutting out the last or first few seconds of a key quote. But every image you juxtapose to another gives that first image a completely altered meaning. There is no end to the magic.

Early Russian filmmakers were freaked out by this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuleshov_effect

Just to illustrate how much fun Im still having with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9VjDVjiQYY
 
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blacksun?

Well-known member
How?

(I have my own ideas, but love hearing other's too.)

Cataclisms, catharses, catastrophes, crises;
reality will continue pounding on us so rigorously that we simply will gradually give up hope of controlling nature, and a new reverence will awaken.

I don't see any lofty smooth path - I just see that those who can already see through the mist, and those that exploit their spiritual advantage to the benefit of all those that wish to liberate themselves, as eventually being revealed as beacons to following generations of "dissenters from the machine".

This is why I advocate priesthood for Jupiter -
There simply is no authority that we can rely on besides our spiritual signifiers. There are no moral authorities - "there is no guard now" as David Simon said it. Jupiter, along with Sun and Saturn, forms the impulse for moral authority.

Soon enough humanity will be frantically in search of new sources for morality.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Well, my mood was rather cynical. It was mercury on the last degree of Virgo, that acted as a frustrating funnel yesterday.

Of course I am a little bit more hopeful than that.
But I do feel the need to recognize the unprecedented changes that are bound to come and stand firm in our cosmic ground, and don't budge or bend one millimetre for things our instincts, common sense, intuition, or logical reason tell us are unwholesome even if all our community pressures us to give in so that they can pretend to feel good for a second longer.

--

David, I wanted to ask you, what was it that made you interpret Uranus as entirely feminine?

The first time I heard that term was because there is a building at the Donaukanal in Vienna called Urania near where I lived. I looked it up and found some associations to a kind of primordial mother substance.

Thankfully planets don't actually have genders they use to procreate, so we are free to interpret a we must. I have seen a completely feminine side of Jupiter as well.
 

sadge

Well-known member
Until you're 18, you're on your parents insurance, and you can stay on that. But insurance is a requirement for every vehicle. I bought a Triumph convertible in my name when I was 19, but the insurance was so high for a teen, that I had to get the title transferred to my parents. Raised their rates considerably, but nothing compared to what I would have been paying.

I'm sorry.

It wasn't you, it was the system that forced it.
 

sadge

Well-known member
Problem is there have never been admirable word-leaders. Trump is admirable to me precisely because isn't a sanctimonious world-butcher but just a man, an actual human of flesh and blood.

I disagree. I don't see a man in him at all. I believe some people romanticize Trump, just like how some people romanticize Clinton. I agree that trump represented a sense of anti-establishmentarianism because the frustration among the masses is real. But the choice was a misguided one due to a lack of other options and a poorly designed electoral college system that is no longer effective. Especially in a country as diverse and as powerful as the US, we need someone with the skills to bring people together, not someone driven by instincts to tear groups apart just to hold on to power. The 10H is a tricky place, full of shadows, and it requires almost a perfect alignment of the stars for one to execute that purpose well because there's always a price to pay in the journey to Saturn's home.

I respect the right for different opinions. I also choose to stay out of political discussions on this forum, so I'll end it right here.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
It is a flawed system alright. Clinton has personally turned an entire nation into a literal sex-slavemarket, she is responsible for perhaps millions of deaths - and this all in preparation for the presidency. That she could run demonstrates that American democracy is a very evil system. Im just glad were still here. She was in the process of surrounding Russia with mini-nukes, and Russia was ready to push the botton as obviously Russia would win a nuclear showdown. They were having city wide bunker drills. Their cities subway systems are atomic shelter, half of their population was being moved in and out of such bunkers the days before the elections.

A leader who unites people is per definition a fascist leader. That is even what fascism literally means; comes from fascere, "binding".

A society that holds the individual as a primary value can never permit a father or mother figure. It needs "divisive" leaders; leaders that force people to talk, which forces some rare individuals to think.

As someone with a lot of friends and ties in the Arab world, I am also grateful for his decision to use military force against isis. Cooking children in ovens, all under Clintons secretary of states auspices, was a bit much for me. Ive edited the footage of such things and of Clinton laughing about it. Trump stopped that. He really did. For that alone his election is justified.

I will say that I have had to risk my life in warzones several times for such knowledge. I am very proud of having gone these lengths to truly inform myself,

-- don't take this as an offence, please - or if you do realize that for me any condemnation of Trump without examples of what he has done wrong (I know of literally nothing that he actually did that is wrong - then I don't believe anything mass-media publish) is also an offence - this is what politics is. It wil never be nice, clean, fair - it will always be the sharp edge of humanity.

Unification of a people under a leader is a sure sign of impending war.




:::



Ok so Ill drop it.





Erh, so to the nicer stuff.

Hm, yes, I can spend weeks of days of 12 hours without eating on an edit. I can get sucked into the question of one or two frames for hours. Apparently you are the right audience for this one - people like it in general but you're response is the same as the experience that went into it.

Our attitudes to art are similar. I guess we are just both serious about art.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
In terms of moving beyond politics, leaving that fundamentally divisive topic behind, humanity will need to organize under the auspices not of some glory-hounding human beings (representative democracy or any other form of "look at me I know whats best for you" system) but of an over-soul type thing - hence, again, the emphasis of astrological authorities.

Rome, little as that is known, was governed by the priests of Saturn. You can compare those guys to what in the US is called the Federal Reserve.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Tenth house shadows.
Thats a good angle to pick this up at, outside of politics.
It'll be good to develop some ways of discussing power in pragmatic and relevant senses without referring to any human figures.

It is clear that the concept of having one human govern other humans is in direct violation of individuality. So the western elections are, with all their theatrics, essentially a celebration of "enlightened slavery". Who is your super-daddy? No my super-daddy is better! Its such a pathetic system.

Which is another reason that I think Germany has triumphed in Europe and is now its leader.

Before their recent elections, both Merkels party and its direct rival decided to discard all rhetoric means, both take on utterly boring super lengthy slogans no one could remember, and thus convey this message: Germany is gong to be fine, totally fine, whatever you choose. Don't worry, were okay.

That signals the end of a very long age of hysteria.
Oh no, I went there again.
Ive lost so much by not being silent - so many people have excommunicated me and even family has threatened my life - all telling me I am on the right side of history. But it is excruciating to deal with.

I absolutely agree that it is a horrible subject. I lost more to it than to anything else.
But I woke up laughing for weeks after 11/8, simply because of not having to go through the shame of living in a world governed by that person I know to be the among most heartless the world has ever seen. It really matter what someone has done, if they run for office. Clinton has done so much evil you can't even survive knowing of it all. Like I said, I was on the brink of suicide in 2014, strictly because of her actions.

So that you know where Im coming from - just glad to be alive.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
In terms of moving beyond politics, leaving that fundamentally divisive topic behind, humanity will need to organize under the auspices not of some glory-hounding human beings (representative democracy or any other form of "look at me I know whats best for you" system) but of an over-soul type thing - hence, again, the emphasis of astrological authorities.

Rome, little as that is known, was governed by the priests of Saturn. You can compare those guys to what in the US is called the Federal Reserve.

I believe what's coming will be a beneficial, "functional anarchy", without the need of hierarchical leadership--not yet possible.
 

blacksun?

Well-known member
Yes, thats my thinking as well. For the Americas at least, and Africa and the Middle East.

I think that Europe and Southeast Asia by contrast might become the opposite - a hierarchical technocracy with no influence from individuals.

It might actually not be such a bad idea to have both systems operate without interference from each other. Because it won't be truly repressive technocracies, they will be extremely lenient as long as their rule is still sufficiently distant from being practically challenged.


Sadge - when I say I can't think of one truly bad thing the president has actually done, I don't mean that he isn't often ridiculous in his speeches, and that he isn't vain, or that he isn't crude as a person, or that he doesn't hesitate to insult people - which technically makes him a - fill in your numbers of *'s - I mean strictly on a policy level. There truly have been remarkable improvements in the economy across the whole board, which was the platform he ran on, and he has not enforced anything that I would consider to be evil, and made a couple of laws that I consider to be highly moral, such as banning late stage abortions, which in terms of nerve development is just the killing of a fully grown entity. Which can still e justified I suppose but not when it is held up explicitly a moral value. It is a last escape from having to raise a child. Why the wait? I find it hard to swallow that people are calling Trump a bad person for this. He isn't banning abortion altogether, even though he says he is against it. Its a big difference. He says many stupid things, but he keeps his promises as well as he is able to fighting two twenty trillion dollar machines.

Two years ago used to think about the sanctimoniousness of the barbarism made have to hold back tears, wondering what was going to change it. Then Trump came, and for the first time in my life there was a leader who wasn't afraid of being mocked, who sought it out - who says yeah? Well let me mock you for a change. Then all hell broke loose. Journalists are the vainest people on earth.

(if there are weird and out of place words, I still havent found out how to shut off this machines annoying spellings transformer, even changing names.)


There is an acute sadness and emptiness to the topic of politics.
There is only any joy in it when you are making policy. In that sense there is a trace of joy in political philosophy - but there is none in the personal comparison of views - politics is the externalization of long lingering, unresolved problems. Its our way of trying to get other people to do the dirty work for us. I agree that this isn't ever going to work, unless you give a certain group all the power, like what is happening in Europe but what I now think won't ever happen in the US. I think the threat of totalitarianism has been warded off by the orange haired kek, who is qua mannerisms simply too much of a goofball to be a dictator. I wondered if he was spart enough to play the machine and take it slow and take the punches. It appears that he is. Hes been preparing his run for thirty years. No one has reaped more disdainful laughter in the process. Its really a very remarkable occasion in a time where our world is having to decide on a way, a code, a form, a symbol or simply a feeling to acknowledge its unity.

In general he is bringing tings back to a state level, which is he opposite of totalitarianism and a step toward an enlightened anarchy. Also the dissent he inspires is already a form of anarchy, and where other presidents woud have called the national guard to control the situation, he has to just take the punches. Ive thought long and hard and I think no leader in world history has shown such restraint with respect to threats from within the population. So with respect to his own position, this administration is firmly opposed to fascism.

I really, really wonder who the next Democratic candidate will be. I can't fathom ... anything. The only idea that makes sense to me is a person with a native background. Im sure there are a lot of them with the qualifications, but I do think there is still a profound disregard for these people, and what they carry. If they ever give up on themselves I think America will become another Europe.
 
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sadge

Well-known member
-- don't take this as an offence, please - or if you do realize that for me any condemnation of Trump without examples of what he has done wrong (I know of literally nothing that he actually did that is wrong - then I don't believe anything mass-media publish) is also an offence - this is what politics is. It wil never be nice, clean, fair - it will always be the sharp edge of humanity.

Unification of a people under a leader is a sure sign of impending war.

t.


We all agreed that this would be the Freedom of Thought thread, thanks to Jupiter, so dont worry about whether I would be offended. I would much rather see everyone unload in an unapologetic way.

Trump has many flaws. One is an inherent lack of understanding in the sensitivity of his position, and that of the U.S., in the international community. We are uniquely positioned to drive forth a better reality for billions of people, but it's a highly sensitive system with many interrelated players. Like the conductor of an orchestra, he needs to know how to pull it all together. The man can't even keep his own cabinet in check, let alone an entire world. I could go on all night with his poor attempts at public policy and international relations, but I don't have the time right now. However, you're more than welcome to unload your thoughts. I like listening to different perspectives. It helps me to identify gaps from all angles, because I am, after all, wanting to find the Truth.

P.S. the concept of bringing people together does not have to be associated with Stalin or other forms of top-down oppression. What I am referring to is the ability to use diversity as a means to build a stronger whole. The problems in our world today can't be fixed by one man, one country, or one ideology. It requires a humility to recognize one's role is just a small part of a bigger system. A leader should work to strengthen the system for everyone, not use the system to strengthen himself.
 
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blacksun?

Well-known member
( I was barred from speaking at the family table since 2002, as I would scare my my sister who is in a subservient position in a sadomasochistic marriage and controlled my parents, and most of my family will simply not answer when I speak to them because of the sort of things I say here now - the internet and Montreal are the only places I can speak freely, and Ive stayed in close contact with my parents so the repression has been lengthy and painful and humiliating. I will not be able to truly control that pain, which is tied to the miserable fact that politics is still necessary. )
 

sadge

Well-known member
( I was barred from speaking at the family table since 2002, as I would scare my my sister who is in a subservient position in a sadomasochistic marriage and controlled my parents, and most of my family will simply not answer when I speak to them because of the sort of things I say here now - the internet and Montreal are the only places I can speak freely, and Ive stayed in close contact with my parents so the repression has been lengthy and painful and humiliating. I will not be able to truly control that pain, which is tied to the miserable fact that politics is still necessary. )


that's awful. I don't think parents should ever silence their children, but my views are pretty liberal in those matters. We are all appreciating your thoughts and the birth of this thread, so don't feel edited or shut down if someone disagrees with you. I am a Defender of Freedom of Speech. And I am here to protect this thread.

(Don't let my detached stance in politics be a sign that I dismiss its importance. I've had to learn from experience that it's not always a worthy discussion with all people.)
 

david starling

Well-known member
The current, overarching numerology involves Capricorn as the 10th Tropical Sign. In Roman numerals, 10 is symbolized by the capital letter X, which in turn symbolizes the word "Cross"--as in "Ped Xing". Numerologically, 10 "converts" to 1 (1+0=1). And just as the two major Religions that developed early in this Age have been intent on converting everyone to their tenets and rules, they're also envisioning One World United under their authority. Since there are two of them, they've been butting heads and going to war over it. Meanwhile, the true "Religion" (in quotes because it's entirely materialistic, and while it has a religious zeal and the need to convert everyone to IT'S tenants and rules, is actually a religion-substitute) is uniting the world using its own technology. It's by nature, an Adversarial Age--Saturn=Satan=Adversary. The early Church rightly described it's version of Saturn, Satan "the great Adversary", as "Ruler of this World", meaning the material world, vying with Jupiter, as God the Father, ruling the spiritual world.
The 11th Sign converts Numerologically to 2. This makes uncontentious Partnership a real possibility. Interesting that "11" can be viewed as two, independent Individuals, side by side; and, when turned sideways, looks like the "=" symbol.
 
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