Do you know the Derived houses system?

I mean that

If your 1st house represents you. then the 2nd represents your money, the 4th represents your family,... the 7th represents your partner, and the 12th represents your karma.

Then the 7th house is your partner, and the 8th is the 2nd of your partner, the 10th is the family of your partner, and the 6th is the karma of your partner.

The 6th? Having to do with karma? Explain, please.

Becouse the 6th is in the position of the 12we if you use the 7th house as the 1st and start counting . . . . read again what Virgo18 wrote, you'll chatch it I think this technique is a great exponential use of the basic Sun chart.

I caught it. I just wanted to know how the 6th relates to karma.

Oh, it does, you wuldnt belive to which extent !

There is some time that i'm working on the 6/12 axis dilemma and i certanly have to open a new thread to not misc topics and to retain their visibility, but it will require some time for me to write it as i'm not native english, it's basicly a process I recently came to the board back and i'll certanly need some time to adjust and translate the new insights.

When speaking about inquiring karmic load through the 6th House, we're dealing with the style of working our 'karmic wheel' on a dayly basis and how seriously (do we manage to work it out, do we load more) we apply with the immanent karma at hand. Karma is generated walking to be blunt, and the 6th as the house of equalization provides the most tangible opportunity to meet and deal with it. Let's put all philosophy asside and say that everything in this universe is wired and dosnt let it's energy get loosed for wathever may be one wish the reason. The 6th House is the braking ground around that point becouse, is the place where we meet with our karma without delays, in the moment and place now. And let's not forget that the 6th isnt the integral part of the 12th 'karmic' axis for no reason.

Okay, makes sense to me since I've been on the line of thinking that 6th house has to do with mental health and alignment does well, no pun intended, fall in line with what you're saying.

Of specific interest to me because I have a 12th house Venus in Cancer (prog. Merc in Cancer along with Venus in Leo) and a rather prominent 6th house stellium of Uranus and moon in Sag and Neptune in Cap...and if what say correlates then I can most certainly see how it applies. Thanks for the clarification!

But here's a question...supposing your partner has no 6th house planets? Would it be then the sign that rules it?

If your Cancer partner is your life partner, then looking at her 6 House you're looking at your own karma, as her partner, in relevance to her, and her karma - life. In generall, whatever you're looking for, you're looking planets, signs, rulers, dispositors - all that can help you define the situation.

Tough, my last post wasnt about the karmic issue through the derived house sytem, but the standard, natal, to be sure we're clear.

virgo18 said:

I mean that

If your 1st house represents you. then the 2nd represents your money, the 4th represents your family,... the 7th represents your partner, and the 12th represents your karma.

Then the 7th house is your partner, and the 8th is the 2nd of your partner, the 10th is the family of your partner, and the 6th is the karma of your partner.

Click to expand...

The only person I've seen use this system was Sidney K. Bennett, who was an astrologer back in the 1920's and 30's. I didn't know it was called the Derived Houses system, but what you explain it as sounds really similar.

I read a book written by Mr. Bennett called You're Future: A Guide to Modern Astrology, in which he used that system in his interpretations, and used terms like "the 8th house is the 3rd house's 5th house", which was awfully confusing, lol. He used it for planets, too, saying Saturn was in it's 1st house sign in Capricorn, it's 2nd house sign in Aquarius, it's 3rd house sign in Pisces, etc., which was also confusing. The book was mostly for beginners, but interesting. Is this the same thing as you're talking about?

My dispositor is Jupiter and hers Pluto...would normally consider that a favorable relationship...composite wise we are Saturnine.

virgo18 said:

I mean that

If your 1st house represents you. then the 2nd represents your money, the 4th represents your family,... the 7th represents your partner, and the 12th represents your karma.
Then the 7th house is your partner, and the 8th is the 2nd of your partner, the 10th is the family of your partner, and the 6th is the karma of your partner.

Click to expand...

Yes, from my understanding of the concept this is correct. This is how horary charts are delineated: the 7th is the "other person" in the question (oftentimes), and thus, say their money would be the "2nd from the 7th" (which would be the 8th in the chart looked at from the ascendant) and so on.
Pioneer Modernist astrologers wrote a good deal about derived houses: Vivian Robson, Manly P. Hall and even Charles Carter, all had instructions about "turning the chart"* in delineative work.

*this is a synonym for "derived houses"

dr. farr said:

Yes, from my understanding of the concept this is correct. This is how horary charts are delineated: the 7th is the "other person" in the question (oftentimes), and thus, say their money would be the "2nd from the 7th" (which would be the 8th in the chart looked at from the ascendant) and so on.
Pioneer Modernist astrologers wrote a good deal about derived houses: Vivian Robson, Manly P. Hall and even Charles Carter, all had instructions about "turning the chart"* in delineative work.

*this is a synonym for "derived houses"

Click to expand...

For example
with the person I am right now.. I have:

The ruler of my ascendant jupiter in the 8th
the ruler of he's descendant venus in the 2nd

The ruler of my descendant mercury in the 10th
The ruler of he's ascendant mars in the 4th

I dont know if it is a coincidence..... but I relate it to the derived house system

I really do see much beauty in this technique becouse, once again, it shows that diving into depths of the life design has a fractal and spiral logic of expression. It's all interconected, and very tightly while at it, thus not randomly as spiritual naivism often miss to make the point.

Your example seems more like a kind of synastry-delineation, rather than what has been historically understood as derived house or turned chart. However, Vivian Robson goes particularly into the meanings of the ruler of one house posited in another house as showing a connection between the 2 houses, what this means, etc (see Robson's basic astrology books at astro-america.com)