birth parents & adoptive parents

hypatia

Well-known member
Is it possible to distinguish between birth parents and adoptive parents in a chart?
Particularly, If the adoptee knows and relates to his/her adoptive parents, and barely knows and/or hardly ever sees and/or never sees his/her birth parents.
 

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
Astrology wise I'm not sure if you can or can't. Indications if any could be related to the 4th house of home/parents and its ruler. Planetary wise I would say maybe Neptune may have something to do with adoption. I appreciate Neptune is a generational planet and will effect masses on the planet, however the studies of palmistry indicate that the mount of Neptune (found between the mounts of Venus and Moon), which can be found just above the wrist may be indicative of some secret associated with the birth of the native. This can be found by looking at the point of where the career/Saturn line begins from the base of the wrist and you would need to look for a prominent island at the beginning of this line. Such a person would have unusual circumstance pertaining to their birth according to Desbaroles.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Is it possible to distinguish between birth parents and adoptive parents in a chart?
Particularly, If the adoptee knows and relates to his/her adoptive parents, and barely knows and/or hardly ever sees and/or never sees his/her birth parents
.
According to Vettius Valens http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
QUOTE

'Saturn puts into one’s hands supervisions,
management of others’ property,
and the fathership of others’ children...' :smile:


So natal Saturn is the significator for adoptive parents
 

Sithae

Active member
in case someone is still interested in this, an interesting indicator can be Moon opposite BML. just my 1/2 a cent :) that can show a mother that is not really your mother, then studying both moon and BML might reveal more. Then again the mother in a chart doesn't have to be represented by moon, but in some charts, this little info may be useful.
 

hypatia

Well-known member
in case someone is still interested in this, an interesting indicator can be Moon opposite BML. just my 1/2 a cent :) that can show a mother that is not really your mother, then studying both moon and BML might reveal more. Then again the mother in a chart doesn't have to be represented by moon, but in some charts, this little info may be useful.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not really your mother".
Do you mean someone is "not your biological mother" or do you mean someone like a very kind neighbour who was very much in your life but wasn't legally your mother??
Someone who is your legal mother is your "real" mother, regardless if they are your biological mother.
 

Sithae

Active member
I'm not sure what you mean by "not really your mother".
Do you mean someone is "not your biological mother" or do you mean someone like a very kind neighbour who was very much in your life but wasn't legally your mother??
Someone who is your legal mother is your "real" mother, regardless if they are your biological mother.

I meant biologically. Ofcourse the one who raises you IS your mother, giving you all that care etc.
 

junoisuppose

Well-known member
I don't think you can. The moon represents the mother or important female figures in your life, and the sun represents the father or important male figures in your life, sometimes these can be step-parents, so I would think they could be the adoptive parents too. Similarly 4th house and 10th house significators, however the 4th also indicates 'roots' so the birth family would be indicated there as well as the 'home' that someone grew up in.
I'd be interested to know what is shown in the chart of someone who has met both their birth and adoptive parents though.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I don't think you can. The moon represents the mother or important female figures in your life, and the sun represents the father or important male figures in your life, sometimes these can be step-parents, so I would think they could be the adoptive parents too. Similarly 4th house and 10th house significators, however the 4th also indicates 'roots' so the birth family would be indicated there as well as the 'home' that someone grew up in.
I'd be interested to know what is shown in the chart of someone who has met both their birth and adoptive parents though.
QUOTE

'…..In nativities children can be signified by both 5th and 11th house

5th is traditional place for children, the radical one,
testimonies to the 11th add to that,
and can help to make a better judgment
when there is a clear stalemate between testimonies (which happens quite often).

Finally,
the use of the 11th for adopted children is sound,
as it is a child from "another",
a theme belonging to the 7th house.
11th is 5th from 7th


Conflicting testimonies points to mediocre state of affairs generally
Many good testimonies point to fortune
and the contrary, to unfortunate developments....' Source: Paulo Felipe Noronha
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6859&highlight=adoption



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Also as previously mentioned, according to Vettius Valens http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf[/FONT]


QUOTE

'Saturn puts into one’s hands supervisions,
management of others’ property,
and the fathership of others’ children...' :smile:

 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
in case someone is still interested in this, an interesting indicator can be Moon opposite BML. just my 1/2 a cent :) that can show a mother that is not really your mother, then studying both moon and BML might reveal more. Then again the mother in a chart doesn't have to be represented by moon, but in some charts, this little info may be useful.

I am in agreement that MEAN Black Moon Lilith in a chart can be significant of the non-biological parent and the image such a person presents to the child by aspects to other planets it makes; whether the inner image created is of a fairy godmother/benevolent father figure or the wicked s.o.b /witch.
Harsh Moon-BML aspects are often indicative of a 'non or dis--connection of feeling' between the natural mother and child. BML is then 'the surrogate' mother who takes on the parental role. In many observed cases, the inner experiences of the child toward 'the maternal role' can lead to a wish for no children of one's own.

Yet Moon-BML also shows a positive side. Natural 'gut' feeling instincts regarding impressions; or feelings towards that which was considered extinct and is brought to the surface;or deep connections to family and tribal customs.

Harsh Sun-BML often comes up with the male parent 'unknown', whereby connection through family feeling is impossible, rather than merely absent in the child's upbringing as per, e.g, a Sun in 12 or in harsh aspect to a natal planet. OR, the male parent can take on 'a hero figure'(Sun)identity to the child under whose shadow it lives and/or is merely an extension of his own ego. E.g ' Joe's girl/boy....what's your name?'

Sun-BML can also have a very positive side; the woman behind every successful man. You may not physically see her influence, yet it's there. :wink:

JUPITERASC wrote:
the use of the 11th for adopted children is sound,
as it is a child from "another",
a theme belonging to the 7th house.
11th is 5th from 7th




Thank you for this explanation. I knew of the 11th house association with adoption, thinking in terms of 'non-emotional, detached' association and opposing the 5th house of children. I didn't know of its traditional roots.
Makes it more trustworthy.:biggrin:
 

hypatia

Well-known member
If you're interested here are charts showing bi-wheels, one of a son with birth mother, other with same son with adoptive mother...

the charts are both drawn with the son's chart on the inner wheel, and both with the houses drawn as for the son's houses
 

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