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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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Unread 01-28-2018, 06:45 AM
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piercethevale piercethevale is offline
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Proof that Dane Rudhyar Knew More Than He Ever Wrote Of.

Greetings.
I just wrote the following to Phoenix Venus as we are facebook friends.
She had caught an error of mine concerning a thread of my initiation in the mundane sub-forum and it led to some contemplation...which will result in a few more posts at said thread.... and a few ideas came to mind one of which caused me to remember an incident two evenings ago when I was explaining the divisions Dane Rudhyar carved the Zodiac up into in the process of categorizing the 360 Sabian Symbols and labeling them appropriately to illustrate the transformational process they are when followed in order from start, at Aries 01*, to finish at Pisces 30*.
But, as I discovered after my book was published, that they also can be read in the other direction beginning with Virgo 30* and finishing with Libra 01* and that is in the other direction through the Zodiac , but note that it also begins on the exact opposite side of the Zodiac too. It thus goes from become a transformational process concerning the mundane world to that of a process of 'spiritual evolution' as I found my self describing it and thus labeling it as such.

Why Dane never mentioned this other possibility vexed me for sometime. I thought that surely He had seen it of all people. Dane noticed after a short while of study that there were a few of the symbols,, as given to him by Marc Edmond Jones, that "didn't fit in" with the rest and sought out Elsie Wheeler who had the original notes taken during the sessions she re-ascertained the symbols. Those very descriptions she gave Marc describing what she saw.
Dane was correct and as to exactly those symbols He suspected had been altered...which Marc had done so as to conform to his preconceived notion of as to what, abstractly speaking, the symbols would proceed towards and for what purpose.
Dane straightened that s*** out.

Yet, I eventually came to notice that Dane had given out a number of subtle clues alluding to being knowledgeable of these very same "theoretical" techniques. After all, He wrote more than just a couple of times that "the Path of True Discipleship begins in Virgo"(or was it "the True Path of Discipleship"? I'll check on that too, sometime)
...but I have digressed...

What I wrote Phoenix Venus, (copied and pasted as follows...)

I also came up with a thought, while Malakye was here, when I told him I had at one time tried to associate the three levels of Sabian Symbols that occur every five degrees with the three Gunas of Hindu philosophy ...but had realized they weren't in the correct order of Tamas, Rojas, and Sattva.
As Actional symbols are of the Rojas level, Tamas of the emotional/cultural and mental/individual surely must be that of the Sattva..
So actional/Rojas could never precede that of Emotion-cultural/Tamas... unless you read the symbols in reverse, that is.
Rudhyar's very structuring of divisions of the Zodiacs' symbolism demonstrates that Individualism (Mental/Individual, Rudhyar) comes first followed by integration into society (Emotional/Cultural, [ibid.]) and from there one begins taking action in the world. (Actional [ibid.])
His very structure appropriately labled at every division, demonstrates that He not only knew of the Spiritual path around the Zodiac He left numerous clues for it to be rediscovered and understood when the time was right.
What a man, Rudhyar was... QUITE"

...end of message...

So, if one begins at Virgo 30* then one is proceeding with a level of the Mental/Individual orientation and graduating to that of Emotional/Cultural and then Actional.
Tamas. Rojas and Sattva.

Dane studied the Vedic well.

Dane Rudhyar's ordered divisions of the 360 Sabian Symbols, a process of transformation in 360 phases.


First off, Dane divided the Zodiac into two "Hemi-cycles", just as like the manner he saw the full monthly cyle of the Moon as being primarily composed of two half cycles.

Then of the full cycle He has it divided into four "Acts". Two Acts to each Hemi-cycle.

Each Act is comprised of three adjoining Signs.

Eact Sign is then divided into two "Scenes". The first fifteen degrees of each sign is one Scene and the second fifteen degrees is the next Scene.

Each Scene of fifteen degrees He divided into three "Levels" comprised of five degrees each.

The first level He labled as "Actional", the second Level, "Emotional-Cultural"
and the third Level as "Individual-Mental" and are always in that order and repreat in every "Scene" in the same order.

The first Hemicycle are the six signs of Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo and Virgo and the second Hemi-cycle contunues on with Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces.

Act 1 is comprised of the Signs Aries, Taurus and Gemini
Act 2 is comprised of the Signs Cancer, Leo and Virgo
Act 3 is comprised of the Signs Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius
Act 4 is comprised of the Signs Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces

Aries consists of Scene 1 & 2
Taurus consists of Scene 3 & 4
Gemini consists of Scene 5 & 6
Cancer consists of Scene 7 & 8
Leo consists of Scene 9 & 10
Virgo consists of Scene 11 & 12
Libra consists of Scene 13 & 14
Scorpio consists of Scene 15 & 16
Sagittarius consists of Scene 17 & 18
Capricorn consists of Scene 19 & 20
Aquarius consists of Scene 21 & 22
Pisces consists of Scene 23 & 24

And remember that every Scene of 15 is comprised of three Levels
1. "Actional"
2. "Emotional-Cultural"
3. "Individual-Mental"
and are always in that order and repreat in every "Scene" in the same order.

(from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala")

"First Hemi-cycle: "THE PROCESS OF INDIVIDUALIZATION"
ACT 1: DIFFERENTIATION
ARIES
SCENE ONE: DESIRE
SCENE TWO: POTENCY
TAURUS
SCENE THREE: SUBSTANTIATION
SCENE FOUR: CONFIRMATION
GEMINI
SCENE FIVE: DISCOVERY
SCENE SIX: EXTERIORIZATION
ACT II: STABILIZATION
CANCER
SCENE SEVEN: DECISION
SCENE EIGHT: CONSOLIDATION
LEO
SCENE NINE: COMBUSTION
SCENE TEN: RELEASE
VIRGO
SCENE ELEVEN: CHARACTERIZATION
SCENE TWELVE: EDUCATION
Second Hemi-cycle: "THE PROCESS OF COLLECTIVIZATION"
ACT III: GROUP-INTEGRATION
LIBRA
SCENE THIRTEEN: TRANSFIGURATION
SCENE FOURTEEN: RECONSTRUCTION
SCORPIO
SCENE FIFTEEN: COMMUNION
SCENE SIXTEEN: FAITH
SAGITTARIUS
SCENE SEVENTEEN: ABSTRACTION
SCENE EIGHTEEN: TRANSFERENCE
ACT IV - CAPITALIZATION
CAPRICORN
SCENE NINETEEN: CRYSTALLIZATION
SCENE TWENTY: GROUP-PERFORMANCE
AQUARIUS
SCENE TWENTY-ONE: CONTRIBUTION
SCENE TWENTY-TWO: MANAGEMENT
PISCES
SCENE TWENTY-THREE: FEDERATION
SCENE TWENTY-FOUR: PERPETUATION "
__

...and thus each Scene consisting of levels that represent the three gunas of Vedic philosophy.

Dane had his theories and they were correct but just lacked the weight of evidence, or "enough weight", I should say. Had he lived until the end of the 00's, I would have given him some more weight to add ...maybe it would have even been enough to...? But Dane left numerous subtle, but recognizable, clues in his writings that exactly addressed the question as to whether He had knowledge of those theories. Clues that do indicate both knowledge of the existence about, and of, and inherently in many Astrological mysteries. ... He may even have had a list made out and had them all in rational order and neatly numbered...and if so, it won't surprise me one bit.

He didn't change his name to "Rudhyar", from Chenier, because it sounded more "fly".The study of Hinduism and the Vedas profoundly influenced him, enough so that He changed his name so as to evoke a transformation of his own devise and desire.

He mentions the three gunas in a number of his works and knew what He was doing by labeling the Zodiac as so. He knew that someone would eventually come along and recognize the clues, that were symbolic them self, He left to aid the good work and that eventually someone would both do that and be able to produce numerous pieces of demonstrable evidence and make it known, pay it forward... get the word out.

Yeah, Dane knew of the two paths of the transformational process.
Studied in so many philosophies and musical theory, he certainly would recognize that to every path, process, equation, what have you...? There is an opposite and yet an equal (in all inherent properties... shared or opposed...) to everything in the universe.

Next up... about that "Quantum Leap" He wrote of...

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Last edited by piercethevale; 01-28-2018 at 06:48 AM.
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Unread 01-28-2018, 07:00 AM
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piercethevale piercethevale is offline
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Re: Proof that Dane Rudhyar Knew More Than He Ever Wrote Of.

I forgot to mention that after some time I realized I was wrong in assuming that Actional is Rojas... It eventually dawned on me that it's Sattva. Maybe had I been born in India this lifetime I would have realized it quicker?
It usually helps to be a part of the culture to understand some concepts foreign from those of your own.
So I eventually realized that...
Individual/Mental is Tamas, Emotional/Cultural is Rojas, and Actional is Sattva.
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Unread 01-28-2018, 07:17 AM
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Re: Proof that Dane Rudhyar Knew More Than He Ever Wrote Of.

One might even say that, 'to escape Maya all one has to do is reverse engineer it...'
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