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  #1  
Unread 03-27-2017, 04:03 AM
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Thoughts on Feminism

Are you a feminist? Are you anti-feminist? Who believes in the gender wage gap?

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  #2  
Unread 03-27-2017, 04:29 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

I am a feminist.

But hold the phone here. There are different definitions of different types of feminism. It is important to define what one means by feminism, and how it defines your outlook on life. If you take a university course in gender studies or women's studies, the prof will probably spend a large part of the term going into the different kinds of feminism, and the distinctions between the concepts of "sex" and "gender."

The kind I support is often called traditional liberal feminism. Basically it accords women the same social, economic, and political rights as men.

It is really, really important to recognize that so many assumed differences between men and women are the results of cultural norms, not intrinsic biology. Today, when I see professional women on TV wearing ever more skimpy dresses, with Barbie-Doll dyed-blonde long hair, and 5-inch stiletto heels, I just cringe. These are all matters of fad and fashion, having nothing to do with intrinsic conditions of being biological male or female.

I cringe at learning about the severe sexual harassment faced by women in the military. These women want to serve their country as professionals. They do not deserve the **** piled on them by insecure men who have trouble defining their masculinity in the face of female soldiers.

I look forward to a society based on the principle of "Free to be you and me," without stultifying cultural norms about what it supposedly means to be male or female. At some basic level, people are people.

What feminism is not at all about is hating men, women wanting to dominate men, or any of the other **** that anti-feminists paste on a social movement that frightens them.
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Last edited by waybread; 03-27-2017 at 04:31 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 03-27-2017, 04:32 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

Do you believe in the wage gap, Waybread?
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Unread 03-27-2017, 04:33 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

Feminism is boring because it is nice when a man will open door and buy flowers and gifts. There is power in it and I do not have time for loud crazy feminists.
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  #5  
Unread 03-27-2017, 04:37 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Do you believe in the wage gap, Waybread?
I should ask you to define this very, very carefully, AppLeo. It's a hot button topic today, and I'd like to know exactly what you mean by it.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #6  
Unread 03-27-2017, 04:39 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Feminism is boring because it is nice when a man will open door and buy flowers and gifts. There is power in it and I do not have time for loud crazy feminists.
Men open the door for me. My husband and son buy me flowers and gifts.

I am a feminist. To me it isn't about chivalry, let alone about being "loud" or "crazy." I am perfectly sane, and soft-spoken. It has to do with topics like equality in social, economic, and political life.

Or do you oppose equal pay for equal work?

Good luck with your black magic on this one.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #7  
Unread 03-27-2017, 04:41 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I should ask you to define this very, very carefully, AppLeo. It's a hot button topic today, and I'd like to know exactly what you mean by it.
Do you believe women are oppressed because they generally make 77 cents for every dollar a man makes?
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Unread 03-27-2017, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Men open the door for me. My husband and son buy me flowers and gifts.

I am a feminist. To me it isn't about chivalry, let alone about being "loud" or "crazy." I am perfectly sane, and soft-spoken. It has to do with topics like equality in social, economic, and political life.

Or do you oppose equal pay for equal work?

Good luck with your black magic on this one.
If the man works harder then he can have more pay and buy more things for me. If I want his job and I do not get pay? Yes that is not fair but men are always in control because we are animals and I do not want to stop being polite and have men make the first contact to ask for date. Inequality is cute.
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Unread 03-27-2017, 04:46 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Men open the door for me. My husband and son buy me flowers and gifts.

I am a feminist. To me it isn't about chivalry, let alone about being "loud" or "crazy." I am perfectly sane, and soft-spoken. It has to do with topics like equality in social, economic, and political life.

Or do you oppose equal pay for equal work?

Good luck with your black magic on this one.
Do you believe that congress should be half female and half male?

Do you believe that we should vote for women presidents for the next century to balance out all of the male presidents we've had?

Did you participate in the women's march?
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  #10  
Unread 03-27-2017, 04:47 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Do you believe women are oppressed because they generally make 77 cents for every dollar a man makes?
AppLeo, this isn't even a sensible question, as you have stated it. The whole topic is so much more complex.

May I assume that we both support equal pay for equal work?

That maternity leave in the US is a huge problem for working women? Generally it is unpaid, and many women have only 3 month's leave before they stand to lose their jobs. Paternity leave isn't even an option for many couples. So guess which parent is more likely to pursue lower-paying part-time work?

Can we agree that the majority of single parents in the US are women, who have to juggle child care with employment? Such that they have difficulty in taking on higher-paying jobs that demand more than a 40-hour work week?

I could go on in this fashion, but maybe you can begin to see some of the complexity of the problem.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #11  
Unread 03-27-2017, 04:57 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
AppLeo, this isn't even a sensible question, as you have stated it. The whole topic is so much more complex.
You just don't want to answer the question cold turkey because you know it's a bunch of bull.

The wage gap is a complete myth; a statistic over exaggerated and misrepresented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
May I assume that we both support equal pay for equal work?
Of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
That maternity leave in the US is a huge problem for working women?
No it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Generally it is unpaid, and many women have only 3 month's leave before they stand to lose their jobs.
If you can't work because you had a child, that is your problem. Maybe people shouldn't have children when they aren't ready. Or they should save up the money so that they can take time off work.

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Paternity leave isn't even an option for many couples. So guess which parent is more likely to pursue lower-paying part-time work?
Probably the mother. HOWEVER, in our society we all have a choice. Women can tell their husbands to take care of the child instead, or both parents can take turns taking care of the child. If having a child is too difficult for making money, then don't have a child in the first place. Blaming society for why you can't have this or that is pathetic. Make individual choices, not the what society sets before you. Society cannot think and therefore shouldn't make your decisions. There are plenty of women who decide not to have children because they'd rather work on their career. CEO's, in general, sacrifice everything for the sake of their job.

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Can we agree that the majority of single parents in the US are women, who have to juggle child care with employment? Such that they have difficulty in taking on higher-paying jobs that demand more than a 40-hour work week?
That's no one else's problem. They can deal with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I could go on in this fashion, but maybe you can begin to see some of the complexity of the problem.
Not complex at all.
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  #12  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:10 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Do you believe that congress should be half female and half male?

Do you believe that we should vote for women presidents for the next century to balance out all of the male presidents we've had?

Did you participate in the women's march?
These are really silly questions, AppLeo. If I thought for a New York minute that feminism had anything to do with these, I wouldn't much care for it, either.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #13  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:11 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

I'm not a feminist. Just a man-hater. Lmao.
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  #14  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:12 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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These are really silly questions, AppLeo. If I thought for a New York minute that feminism had anything to do with these, I wouldn't much care for it, either.
Well that's what feminism is advocating!!

Asking if you participated in the Women's March is silly??

What do you think about the Women's March?? How did you feel about Madonna saying that she'd like to, "Blow up the White House?"
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  #15  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
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Do you believe that we should vote for women presidents for the next century to balance out all of the male presidents we've had?
Yes. I think I should be president. End of story.
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  #16  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:14 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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I'm not a feminist. Just a man-hater. Lmao.
So you hate me?
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  #17  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
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If you can't work because you had a child, that is your problem. Maybe people shouldn't have children when they aren't ready. Or they should save up the money so that they can take time off .
That statement only makes sense if you're pro choice and support easy access to birth control. So I'm assuming you are.
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Unread 03-27-2017, 05:17 AM
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So you hate me?
I'm kidding, AppLeo. Don't take everything I say so literally.

I don't hate you. I disagree with a lot of your opinions but I don't hate you. I don't even know you well enough to hate you and I disagree with everybody including myself

Last edited by craft94; 03-27-2017 at 05:19 AM.
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Unread 03-27-2017, 05:19 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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I'm kidding, AppLeo. Don't take everything I say so literally.
Oh.....

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  #20  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:20 AM
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Oh.....

We good then?
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  #21  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:24 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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That statement only makes sense if you're pro choice and support easy access to birth control. So I'm assuming you are.
Birth control has always been an easy access. Condoms cost like 15 dollars a box.
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Unread 03-27-2017, 05:24 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

As to whether or not I'm a feminist, I think actions speak louder than words.
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  #23  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:25 AM
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Birth control has always been an easy access. Condoms cost like 15 dollars a box.
What if the condom breaks? What then, AppLeo?
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  #24  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:26 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

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What if the condom breaks? What then, AppLeo?
Get an abortion, but pay for that **** yourself.
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  #25  
Unread 03-27-2017, 05:27 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Feminism

AppLeo, you seem like you are hostile towards whatever you think feminism is. If you are headed to university or are there now, I strongly encourage you to take a course in gender studies, because you seem to have a very simplistic view of gender issues.

I've unpacked the wage gap issue a bit. To go further:

1. There are cases where men and women do not get equal pay for equal work. I had this happen to me early in my career.

2. There are cases where men and women's pay does not reflect the nature of their work. One example might be a school janitor who gets paid more than a teacher.

3. There are cases where women face discrimination in employment. I gave the example above of the military. Sexual harassment of enlisted women has been in the news a lot lately, so you're probably aware of the problem. A woman who has to choose between her virtue and personal safety vs. career advancement will understandably decide not to pursue progress through the ranks, and be likely to drop out.

Another example that has been in the news a lot lately are women in IT careers. Geek culture has been demonstrably unsupportive of women's advancement into upper echelon higher-paying jobs.

4. Women who are mothers of young children, notably single mothers, tend to find jobs with hours and flexibility that allow them to juggle their dual roles. Obviously, many corporate roles, law firm jobs, and careers that require travel are hard for moms to embrace. Although dads are perfectly capable of staying home with the kids while Mom pursues her job as a long-haul truck driver or commercial airline pilot, this has not tended to be the norm.

Add up these issues, and we begin to see how wage disparity takes hold.

AppLeo, your callousness towards mothers merely shows your youth. Thank your lucky stars that your mother decided that having a child was worth her while.

Ayn Rand was a sociopath so far as I can determine. I wouldn't hold up her brand of libertarianism as any kind of guide for a sane society.

Are you aware that the US is the only developed nation without some form of paid maternity leave? How come countries like Canada and France manage to have paid maternity leave as a normal employment benefit?
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 03-27-2017 at 05:38 AM.
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