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  #1  
Unread 09-24-2012, 01:19 AM
MLB272 MLB272 is offline
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Help understanding Scorpio Rising

Hello,

I am new to astrology and I have a basic understanding of my chart. Recently, I had an idea to investigate/evaluate my negative traits/weaknesses. I thought being aware could ultimately help make me stronger and would tell me what to stay away from in particular. I saw that, from my scorpio rising, I have an inclination to build a lot of problematic traits. However I am having trouble pin pointing exactly what. I am a third decant and I have a conj planet in pluto. I know emotions are a big thing. Can anyone help?

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Unread 09-24-2012, 02:10 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

I have Scorpio as an Assen with Nep. and sun in Leo ( I really must have done something wrong) but found that its not the meaning or intent of my actions but the intensity. . I tend to be very strong and matter of fact, no good for friendship. Others have said Scorpio will have a strong presence. Try soften the tone, keep the meaning.
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Unread 09-24-2012, 04:59 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

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Originally Posted by whatfor View Post
I have Scorpio as an Assen with Nep. and sun in Leo ( I really must have done something wrong) but found that its not the meaning or intent of my actions but the intensity. . I tend to be very strong and matter of fact, no good for friendship. Others have said Scorpio will have a strong presence. Try soften the tone, keep the meaning.

Yeah, this is big for me as well. I am an aquarius sun. So, in addition to being aloof I am no good at making friends. I can be very blunt/critical at times and the people around me tend to have very tougn skin. The only thing that partly saves me is my pisces moon. But even those signs of sensitivity are very sudden, intense, and unexpected from me.
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Unread 09-24-2012, 05:12 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

I hear perversion, sadism, masochism, hositility and the lack of self-control are all problems that scorpio risings/scorpios have, but that there are a long list of others. What are some other tendencies?
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Unread 09-24-2012, 06:08 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

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Originally Posted by MLB272 View Post
I hear perversion, sadism, masochism, hositility and the lack of self-control are all problems that scorpio risings/scorpios have, but that there are a long list of others. What are some other tendencies?
Stereotypes are not helpful! They're distortions at best, misleading in general, and downright dangerous far too often. One might say that the terms you've used reflect a Saturn-Pluto conflict, with you standing as an advocate for Saturn's interest in maintaining the status quo.

Scorpio tends to go deep, no matter what. Depending on aspects, houses and other significant factors, Scorpions have enormous potential for empathy, compassion and understanding overall. Their intuition is profound. They make terrific therapists. Their ability to ferret out important details and to unearth hidden things makes them excellent investigators. The research capabilities of a prominent Pluto/Scorpio are unsurpassed by any other configuration.

Where Virgo is concerned with physical health, Scorpio is the sign of healing.

Lack of self-control is a hallmark of Uranus much more than of Pluto, but even there, it's a matter of degree. Uranus is bound to temporal reality, in which it encourages change, on a mild day, outright revolution at other times. Uranus conjunct, sextile, trine or even in opposition to Mars can be incendiary, largely because Uranus' dedication to overturning things will outweigh Mars' intent to direct energy in specific ways. There is always a morality at work in Mars' actions. With Uranus, change for its own sake is good enough.

Pluto is no yardstick for trying to determine how much of something is enough. There is no "enough" for Pluto in ordinary terms. Pluto isn't concerned with the limits of ordinary life or mortal living, remember. Pluto aims to teach us that we are immortal. Limits and boundaries are a Saturn concern. Saturn teaches us to live in Time, which Pluto (like Einstein) knows to be an illusion in the great scheme of things.
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Unread 09-24-2012, 07:31 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

[QUOTE=Peregrine_Moon;420076]Stereotypes are not helpful! They're distortions at best, misleading in general, and downright dangerous far too often.

My apologies. I don't mean to come off negative. I just wanted to learn some of the possible negative qualities of my scorpio. I figured it would be helpful to know what could be my weaknesses so that i can be more perceptive in the future of how I am acting - since my scorpio is my rising. I don't believe I have all the tendencies that Ive listed. However, its good to know what others with my rising deal with in general. I mean, because I might, after all, deal with some of those sam things subconciously.

I have no idea how my conj pluto affects my rising. Could you explain that to me?
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Unread 09-24-2012, 08:23 PM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

It's never a good idea to take just one planet, point or configuration out of the context of the whole chart. Why don't you post your chart so that we can have a look at it? I'm sure we can give you some insight!
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Unread 09-24-2012, 10:05 PM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

My brother has scorpio rising with leo sun/moon/mars at the top. This energy does not seem to mesh well.

He was extremely late at learning to talk when he was younger. When he answers the phone, he'll wait a bit and say in a groggy manner, "yeah" and doesn't talk much to whoever is on the other end. He has no problem with long periods of silence with a stare down. Sometimes he will break silence with something very awkward and offensive. When you slight his leo pride by simply disagreeing, he will not speak to you for the rest of the day.

All of the above was more extreme when he was younger. He has improved since he has been in the workforce interacting with society. Still, he behaves this way with certain people and anyone that disagrees with him. His wife says he is cocky and brashly opinionated with her parents and friends. She also says that he still gives her the silent treatment when they don't agree on something.

I happen to have a very normal stress-free relationship with him, but then he has always come to me for opinion on certain things. That is the key. He has to go to the teacher, not the other way around. I stopped protectively warning him when he was little. He showed a tendency to do exactly what you told him not to, just be rebellious. It was safer to just hope for the best.

It could be capricorn on the third that is restricting communication in some cases. Here is his chart.
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Unread 09-24-2012, 10:23 PM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

I think i get your point now. My chart has been attached
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Unread 09-25-2012, 12:10 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

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Originally Posted by MLB272 View Post
I hear perversion, sadism, masochism, hositility and the lack of self-control are all problems that scorpio risings/scorpios have, but that there are a long list of others. What are some other tendencies?
Please, don't do this.
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Unread 09-25-2012, 12:28 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

One way of thinking about the general characteristics for a rising sign is to look at which planet rules each house, and therefore which life sphere.

Example, Scorpio rising tends to be rather deeply attached to their religious views, for good or ill, due to the moon's rulership of the 9th house.

Scorpio rising tends to have a rather 'regal', autocratic leadership style, due to the Sun ruling the 10th
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Unread 09-25-2012, 09:01 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

To begin with, I apologize for the length of this post. I've written it very quickly tonight and don't have time to write a shorter piece!

Your Sun in Aquarius describes you as innovative and unusual. Your Pisces Moon reinforces these qualities because it is receptive, ready to blend what is real with what is unreal, the practical with the impractical, religion with the occult, mysticism with science and the poetic everywhere. Your personality is driven by introspection.

Outwardly, however, your Scorpio Ascendant, with its ruler, Pluto, in very tight conjunction (only 52'), depicts you as extremely intense, incapable of superficiality of any kind and profoundly emotional. Your emotions are either openly expressed or tightly controlled. Other people likely experience you as an all-or-nothing kind of guy in your approach to and engagement with others. While Scorpio has an unfathomable capacity for intuition and empathy, its desire is to control by knowing the utmost depths and heights. Pluto’s conjunction increases this emphasis.

Others find you either magnetically attractive or reject you from the outset. Your innovative, creative approach to issues, and other people, is enticing, as is the strongly mystical bent in your self-expression. But many people find these qualities to be worrisome and some may be afraid of you for no apparent reason.

There is no disguising Pluto’s will to power or his obsession with secrets. It’s not that you can’t keep a secret. You can and you do, far better than most. What may disturb some people is that you intuitively know secrets that they have laboured very hard to conceal not only from others, but from themselves most of all. The temptation to use secrets for your own purposes may be very strong for you at times.

I suspect that you may have found others’ reactions to you to be confusing, particularly when you were a child. You may have invented ways to appear to be relaxed, easy-going, negotiating, open to compromise, even unconcerned about control or leadership. But, try as you will, these strategies generally fail to produce the outcomes you’ve sought. This is because you can’t see, and often can’t even feel, how powerfully Pluto works in and through you. Pluto operates in secret, in hiding, and the first person from whom Pluto is hidden is always you.

Scorpio rising is sexual and erotic, but needs help to be genuinely loving. Fortunately, you have Venus in the 4th house trine Pluto and ruling your 11th house of friendships and the love you receive from others. Venus, here, softens some of the harsher characteristics of Pluto conjunct the Ascendant. You can, and do, love other people, though you may be disappointed or frustrated if they feel overwhelmed by you or anxious about your attention. Those who accept you and your care, however, will find that you are a deeply loyal, devoted friend and companion whom they can trust to the very end. Everyone wants to be truly known by someone and to be loved, anyway. Few of us ever find such acceptance, but you are able to give it and to love passionately.

You will likely be unable to work successfully with the challenges that are part of such a strong, Scorpio/Pluto Ascendant, however, unless you address your anger issues. The Sun square Pluto heightens your need for secrecy and your determination to control others, your environment and yourself. Square aspects are about obstruction, diversion, obstacles, impediments, imbalances and frustrations, none of which are ever acceptable to Pluto. It will be very difficult for you to find effective ways to address your propensity for controlling others, particularly in close, personal relationships, but this is something you must learn to do without manipulating others or expressing rage when you feel frustrated. You may have a hard time with people who have authority over you, particularly men.

With respect, and with no intention of accusing you or anyone else with a Sun square Pluto aspect, I must say that this aspect is too often found in the horoscopes of people who are violently abusive. The difficulty with this aspect is that, when you express it in the way that seems right at the time, it feels good. It’s natural to you. It feels like the right thing to do at the time, even if you regret your actions later.

I raise this because you also have Mars quindecile your Ascendant as well as Mars quindecile Pluto. The quindecile is a 165 aspect that indicates what the astrologer Noel Tyl calls “unrelenting motivation, obsession, determination, upheaval, disruption, even separation.” He considers the quindecile to be as important as conjunctions, squares and oppositions in a chart. For you, Mars is domiciled in the 7th house of partner relationships, which includes both intimate partners and business partners. Mars rules Aries, in which your 5th house of creativity, love given and children is found.

Any harsh aspect between Mars and Pluto must be taken seriously because of the potential for destructive expressions of anger that such an aspect may encourage. Your Mars quindecile Ascendant can indicate aggression and anger both in your self-presentation (Ascendant), in your partner relationships (Mars in the 7th house) and in your love relationships and relationships with your own children if or when you have them.

The most important thing to recognize is that the Ascendant is not you. The Sun describes your vital energy, your core values and objectives, your ego, the force within you that enables you to make decisions. The Moon describes your reigning need in life which the Sun fuels and to which all other planets contribute in various ways. The Ascendant is the way you present yourself and engage with the world. It is a mirror or amplification of the Sun-Moon combination, illustrating how you will be in the world as you express your Sun’s energy in service of your Moon’s needs.
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  #13  
Unread 09-29-2012, 02:56 PM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

There are over 6 billion people on this planet.
These 6 billion each belong to one of 12 signs.
That means there are 500 million people in each sign,
or 500 million people with Scorpio rising.

To say "I have Scorpio rising. Tell me of my sins."...
is like saying
"This book has a red cover. Tell me how the story ends."

Your approach to yourself is wrong.
It reminds me of those folks who place a crown of thorns on their heads
Take scourge in hand
And crawl through the streets on their knees, flagellating themselves
Who then go home to their wives and children, bloodied and torn
But just as sinful as they ever were.

They might have done better by staying home and hugging the wife and kids.
Not concerned with destroying their sins
But instead with learning how to love.

Martin Luther King said that Darkness is not dispelled by darkness; only Light can do that. Hate is not dispelled by hate; only Love can do that. Your approach says "I hate myself"...

Instead of fixing what is wrong with you
Go out and do what is right. Be love.
The rest will take care of itself

Oh, Sun square Pluto...Scorpio rising, Pluto rising..........Hopeless case.
Pluto is unforgiving. The Ascendant is "myself". With Pluto there, "I can't forgive myself."
You were born to tear the wings off flies.

Can you imagine yourself lying next to Peregrine Moon. She wakes up in the morning and decides to tell you about the dream she had last night............................................. .................................................. ............................. Dinner will be a little late.

Last edited by greybeard; 09-29-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 01:25 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

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Oh, Sun square Pluto...Scorpio rising, Pluto rising..........Hopeless case.
Pluto is unforgiving. The Ascendant is "myself".
?? Well thats differnt.....
I have never heard Pluto is unforgiving and the Ascendant is myself. I would like to know more about this could you explain please?
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Unread 10-12-2012, 02:08 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

Let's start with where your Mars is.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 04:54 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

The Ascendant.....

Is the "persona", which in the old Greek was the mask that actors wore on the stage to represent the role they were portraying....

The Ascendant describes your "role in life."

The Ascendant is the eastern horizon (where the horizon of the place of birth, and the ecliptic, intersect). Thus, it describes your "horizons in life". It depicts the "scope" of your life in that sense.

The Ascendant is the "beginning" of the horoscope; it tells "what is coming up". It's like a "preview of coming attractions." It is "the moment of first independent breath [birth]" and as such is The Beginning.

It is the point in the horoscope that depends on both longitude and latitude, and thus "locates" you on the face of the Earth -- the Midheaven does not do that; it depends only on longitude. Thus the Ascendant is the most individualized point in the chart. It is You (your role, persona, point of view, horizons, destiny......) It is very true that THE OUTCOME OF ANYTHING IS DEPENDENT ON ITS BEGINNING.

Therefore, and this has long been recognized (and now somewhat forgotten) by the old astrologers that the Ascendant is "The Point of Destiny." The destiny is described at the Ascendant.

This horoscopic point also represents your Body and Constitution. It is therefore the point of both life and death (and what lies between).

It has long been associated, in horary astrology, with "ships at sea". By extension, it is anything (the subject of the horoscope, the querent) whose exact course, position and fate are not knowable (because "out of sight over the horizon"). It is what is indeterminate. There is a degree of indeterminacy included in every horoscope.

Given all these things that the Ascendant represents, it is YOU. If the "Self" is found at the Ascendant, then the "Not-Self" must be located at the Descendant, and that is "open enemies, the partner or spouse" and every other thing "not the self" that we must me and come to terms with somehow.....the Seventh House. So the Ascendant and First House are You as opposed to everything "not-you".

And now we follow Moog's lead and look to Mars, because Mars is lord of Scorpio. (I offer that Pluto may be taken as ruler of Scorpio as well. I personally use a flexible approach, giving preference to Mars, but using Pluto when I judge that the horoscope itself calls for it.) I have had the opportunity to know all the details of one birth with Scorpio rising, and Pluto was the descriptor, very exactly, of the conditions at birth. Astrologers very seldom get to know all those details. But the Ascendant must necessarily describe the conditions at the moment of birth.

The Ascending sign depicts, in broad strokes, the principal issues you will face in life. What will be the important things you will need to meet? So what are the contents of Scorpio, the things and qualities that distinguish it from the other signs? What is emphasized in this Fixed Water sign? Those are the issues you must meet and "overcome" or adapt to, primarily.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-12-2012 at 05:17 AM.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 05:32 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

Oh, Pluto.....

Pluto is described as "implacable, ruthless, unforgiving...." in almost every description I have ever read (maybe you are reading too much Jeff Green).

Consider "implacable". Pluto is the only planet of the ten that touches each and every degree of the zodiac three times in its orbital passage around the Sun. Therefore, Pluto grinds very fine, leaves no stone unturned, spares nothing....He is implacable. Pluto is what is buried and forgotten, whether it be treasure or morbid secrets. When it is time, Pluto brings up what is buried. When the past comes to light (what was buried is unearthed), it can be a very painful experience, and the past is unforgiving...there is no escape from it.

An example from my files: A man had Saturn and Pluto, by transit, come to mundane square in his chart. Pluto occupied the 10th Angle. Natal Pluto was posited in the 8th. On the day that the secondary progressed Moon entered the sign of Pisces, intercepted (enclosed) in his natal 12th, the man was arrested and jailed (with long-term consequences) for a "sex-crime" he had committed 5 or 6 years earlier. Pluto does not forget, nor forgive.

I was hitch-hiking through Texas one time. A county sheriff in an unmarked car picked me up and gave me a ride. He was pursuing a rapist, and headed out to some ranch where the man was supposed to be working. He dropped me off where he had to turn. A half hour later the sheriff picked me up again and took me another 30 or 40 miles down the highway. The man he was after had moved to another ranch. I would not have wanted that old sheriff to be coming after me. He was dogged, implacable, and unforgiving. He was Pluto personified.

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Unread 10-12-2012, 06:11 AM
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I also have scorpio rising conjunct pluto & mercury in scorp. You may be a very intense person or seen that way. Do you feel things very intensely?
Peregrine_moon described it very well. And greybeard that was very insightful! I think I would consider my pluto my chart ruler.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 08:42 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

WHY would you consider Pluto your ruler?

Before 1930 Mars was the lord of Scorpio, and he filled that role faithfully and well.
Then along comes the usurper Pluto and diplaces him.
But Pluto is dethroned in 2006 by a gathering of beer-swilling anal-retentive astronomers in Prague, for sloppy house-keeping. He is given a number, 134340, instead of a name, a if he were a Van Gogh forever walking in circles inside his high prison walls.

Why would you want to be ruled by such an unsavory character?

We should always have good astrological reasons for considering a planet to be a ruler, or taking on any other prestigious job in a chart. Why is Pluto your ruler?

I believe anyone who has considered the nature of astrology will agree that it is essentially a sytem of thought, and if this be true, then it follows that it should hold to the primary characteristic of thought, which is rational and logical. Feelings are very important, are in fact primal to being human, but are an unreliabe guide to thought. Unless of course you are dominated by Scorpio, in which case everything is ruled by "I like it -- I don't like it."
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Unread 10-12-2012, 08:48 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

My mom has been doing astrology for years and that's what she said. Do u wanna look?
I wasn't saying I wanted to be, that's just what id been told.
11/26/1992 indianapolis indiana 7:21 am
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Unread 10-12-2012, 08:49 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

My apologies if I'm wrong.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 09:31 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

Pluto as the ruler of Scorpio seems right, to me. Mars is smaller and subject to Time. He's under Saturn's domain. That's not a problem, per se, but I think we need to differentiate power from unbounded force and Pluto does that very well.

Most of our lives are subject to Saturn. The old model works beautifully and shouldn't be tossed aside uncritically. But we also need to find ways to grapple with enormity. The planets are really symbols that point to realities that aren't nameable in other ways. It seems to me that there are things that Saturn and Time simply can't encompass.

That said, Pluto is also horrifying much of the time. I'm wary of trying either to tame him down to Martian proportions or of expanding Mars to something greater. Ultimately, I'm not sure that Pluto is as malefic as we imagine him to be. He operates on a scale that we find difficult to comprehend.

The more I think about Pluto lately, the more I've been thinking that all he does is give birth. Pluto can only regenerate. We experience his engagement as destructive and it is, on our scale. But we cling to a few decades of life. Saturn will teach us how to live those decades well, to become wise and to be beneficial. Saturn teaches us how to stay alive and nurture life around us. Pluto teaches us that we are immortal spirits.

Assigning Pluto to Scorpio makes sense to me because it encompasses the deepest depths and highest heights. No other sign attempts such scope.

I don't really care what a bunch of astronomers decided one afternoon. They're interested in science but I'm interested in what things mean.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 09:44 AM
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

Wasn't a criticism, just a comment from my own biased point of view.

I just asked a question. Without even looking at your chart, the fact that Pluto is rising in Scorpio conjunct Mercury, with a Scorpio Ascendant, is a pretty good case for Pluto as lord.

It might be that the use of the descriptive term "beer-swilling anal-retentive astronomers" is a tip off that this is tongue n cheek. Maybe.

Ah, but now I have cast your chart, just to take a look. And guess who is singleton West and has oodles of power in your chart? Mars.

He has a 71 degree separation from the main body of the planets (the other nine) giving him status as the handle planet in a bucket pattern, and furthermore stands opposed to the stellium in Capricorn. He is in fall, and occupies his own natural house. As mentioned, he is singleton west.

For these reasons, he has exceptional accidental power in this chart. The fact that he is in fall only serves to point to him even more powerfully. I would award him "rulership" over the Scorpio Ascendant....which by the way is in the turbulent and chaotic last degree of the sign, confirming what is indicated by Mars being in his fall.

I would not argue with an astrologer who nominated Pluto as ruler, because he is powerful in his own sign, tightly conjunct Mercury, and only 6 degrees from the Ascendant itself. But I would without hesitation call Mars ruler; he holds superlative power in the chart.

The essential ruler of the chart is Saturn, as final dispositor. However, if Uranus is taken as lord of Aquarius, we then have a mutual disposition of the chart....with the stellium, and even more concentrated triple conjunction adding to the confusion. (the confusion only occurs in the mind of the astrologer -- the chart knows what it is doing). Either approach will give very similar results, probably indistinguishble.

There is a third power in this chart, and that is the triple conjunction of Sun, Pluto and Mercury embracing the Ascendant. These are the only angular planets in the chart, and certainly come to the forefront of the life. Off the cuff, this life has to do with a very intense power struggle, and the struggle is essentially within the self.

The Cardinal quality is strongly emphasized, working through the suceedent houses. Curiously, Jupiter is Sun-ruler, at the apex of the skewed Cardinal T-square, and lord of the 4th House of Final Outcome. Jupiter is more important than he might appear at first glance.

I find the chart interesting for its lack of clearly defined aspects.
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  #24  
Unread 10-12-2012, 09:51 AM
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JenniferThiesing JenniferThiesing is offline
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

Power struggles within my self is very true.
So are you saying I need to pay more attention to my jupiter? And final outcome?
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Unread 10-12-2012, 11:33 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Help understanding Scorpio Rising

I was just analyzing the chart.

Question: Does astrology work for people who don't believe in it and pay no attention to it?

If the answer to the question is "yes", then we are faced with a second question: What happens when we pay more attention to Jupiter?

I can only answer from the most personal of perspectives... I don't pay attention to any planet, but simply to my behavior, which eliminates any planet from the picture -- I don't have to be an astrologer to grow as a person and enjoy life more. All I have to do is watch myself in each passing moment; there is no need for me to study all those dusty old astrology books that are so darned hard to understand.

Our life will unfold with or without the study of astrology. I will become what I was meant to become, my fate will be what it was always intended to be. I'm a pretty good astrologer....You know what? I can't tell you what is going to happen to me next week, or next month. Why not? Because I don't really care. I'll live that adventure when I come to it. Today is good enough for me.

If I am supposed to pay more attention to Jupiter, I'm quite sure that Life will figure out how to tell me that in its due time. While some people are paying attention to Jupiter, I will be smelling the beautiful roses.

By the way, it's 4 am. Wherever you are, step outside at 4 am and see how beautiful Jupiter is... parked up there in the constellation of Taurus, which is full of big beautiful stars. Nice. What a cool universe we live in.
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