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  #1  
Unread 03-12-2015, 02:06 PM
Neptune Rising Neptune Rising is offline
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Will I get a refund from the college?

Hi,

I asked horary if I would get a refund from my college course. I have decided to quit because of really poor teaching. I am not sure which houses to use for this. The educational institution is the 9th house, so I am wondering if their money is the 10th?

I am Moon
My money is Sun.
10th house is Mars.

Moon will trine Jupiter, Mars and then square Sun.

Moon is in triplicity of Sun, Jupiter is also in Sun's sign of Leo. Mars is in Sun's exhaltation and tripliclity. Interesting dynamics. Could this suggest a refund will come but with difficulty?

Mars is in its house, strong. They are worried about their reputation. Mars is also staying in their 2nd house. While I have Jupiter in my 2nd house which may be beneficial.
Also Sun and Jupiter are in mutual reception.

Could anyone help please?

Thanks





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  #2  
Unread 03-26-2015, 10:29 AM
melleoscorp melleoscorp is offline
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune Rising View Post
Hi,

I asked horary if I would get a refund from my college course. I have decided to quit because of really poor teaching. I am not sure which houses to use for this. The educational institution is the 9th house, so I am wondering if their money is the 10th?

I am Moon
My money is Sun.
10th house is Mars.

Moon will trine Jupiter, Mars and then square Sun.

Moon is in triplicity of Sun, Jupiter is also in Sun's sign of Leo. Mars is in Sun's exhaltation and tripliclity. Interesting dynamics. Could this suggest a refund will come but with difficulty?

Mars is in its house, strong. They are worried about their reputation. Mars is also staying in their 2nd house. While I have Jupiter in my 2nd house which may be beneficial.
Also Sun and Jupiter are in mutual reception.

Could anyone help please?

Thanks




I was looking at this chart last week and forgot to post reply. It seems you will get a refund but it's a long process.

Moon (you) separating Saturn (the college)
this shows the past. You enrolled in one of the college courses.
there is no applying aspect between the two.
Sun (your money) separating Saturn (their money)
this also shows the past. You paid for the course.
Sun is VoC until it enters its exaltation, when it does, it will apply Saturn again. this time it's not a pleasant one. I think you will get the refund, but for that to happen, higher authority is involved (your 10th, Mars is dignified) who will speed up your request (Moon applying Mars, Sun will exalt in Mars' dignity)
Moon (you) applying benefic Jupiter (before Mars), but Jupiter is rx hence the delay in getting your refund.
Jupiter is also the college's house of communication, either red tape is causing delay, or it's pure administration flaw

Last edited by melleoscorp; 03-26-2015 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Jupiter
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Unread 03-26-2015, 12:32 PM
Neptune Rising Neptune Rising is offline
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Quote:
Originally Posted by melleoscorp View Post
I was looking at this chart last week and forgot to post reply. It seems you will get a refund but it's a long process.

Moon (you) separating Saturn (the college)
this shows the past. You enrolled in one of the college courses.
there is no applying aspect between the two.
Sun (your money) separating Saturn (their money)
this also shows the past. You paid for the course.
Sun is VoC until it enters its exaltation, when it does, it will apply Saturn again. this time it's not a pleasant one. I think you will get the refund, but for that to happen, higher authority is involved (your 10th, Mars is dignified) who will speed up your request (Moon applying Mars, Sun will exalt in Mars' dignity)
Moon (you) applying benefic Jupiter (before Mars), but Jupiter is rx hence the delay in getting your refund.
Jupiter is also the college's house of communication, either red tape is causing delay, or it's pure administration flaw
Hi,, thank you for your reply! I didn't know whether to use 7th for them or 9th. There is another post about this in the technique section.

So far, I've written a complaint email to them. But I have the feeling I'll need to take it further for anything to happen.

Its funny that, if they are Saturn, they are disposed by Jupiter who sits in my 2nd house. It does describe the situation quite well though.

I'll update you as and when the situation develops.
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  #4  
Unread 03-26-2015, 01:27 PM
melleoscorp melleoscorp is offline
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune Rising View Post
Hi,, thank you for your reply! I didn't know whether to use 7th for them or 9th. There is another post about this in the technique section.

So far, I've written a complaint email to them. But I have the feeling I'll need to take it further for anything to happen.

Its funny that, if they are Saturn, they are disposed by Jupiter who sits in my 2nd house. It does describe the situation quite well though.

I'll update you as and when the situation develops.
Sun and Moon are also in Jupiter's dignity, and Jup is rx.

if your 9th is college, the college's 2nd is your 10th.
You still get the refund. Moon applying Jupiter (this is the e-mail you wrote them after March 12th) and then applying trine Mars. Sun will enter exaltation in Mars' dignity.

yes pls update. it will help with my personal horary chart of similar question

Last edited by melleoscorp; 03-26-2015 at 07:55 PM. Reason: add
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  #5  
Unread 03-26-2015, 10:34 PM
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Hi Neptune, I saw this online. Go get your bucks back


Can you get a refund if university fails to deliver?


Courses that are sub-standard, lecturers who don't turn up, supervision that doesn't materialise ... now that students will be paying up to £9,000 a year, will they be able to demand their money back if university fails to deliver?
If a product doesn't live up to expectations, if it's not of merchantable quality, then consumers have rights to ask for their money back under the Sale of Goods Act. But what if you are paying for a course that didn't live up to expectations? Already, officials in the university sector are preparing for an increase in complaints from heavily-indebted consumers of education who feel they didn't get what was promised.

First, it's important to remember that students are not buying a degree. They pay for services and facilities (tuition, libraries) which enable them to study and complete a course to the best of their ability. But if these services are lacking or inadequate, then surely they deserve compensation?

If difficulties are apparent in a degree course (for example, absentee supervisors or sub-standard pastoral care) then a university's internal complaints procedure should be the first stop. These tribunals were once notorious for their casual attitude to correct legal procedure. They still don't like paying compensation and proceed slowly even with urgent matters – such as disputed marks – important when a job hinges on the outcome.

In England and Wales, the Office of the Independent Adjudicator (OIA), can intervene when internal appeals have been exhausted. Interestingly, the OIA's own research suggests that dissatisfied students don't want cash, but, rather, a fair and independent system of restitution. Rob Behrens, the Independent Adjudicator, emphasises that complaints are still rare. He aims to rectify a situation, but where it is too late (such as when complained-about supervisors have left) he can require the university to pay compensation.

Pay-outs are usually modest: for example, £300 to a student who did not receive an essential CD Rom, and the largest so far - £45,000 to a student involved in a damaging, complex, and protracted dispute about a PhD. Behrens emphasises that students have a right to appropriate service and deals with instances of: "…delays, distress, legal fees and loss of earnings, and only if there is evidence – we are not in the business of giving handouts".

He says the OIA rarely sees vexatious actions, and upholds roughly a quarter of all complaints.
Most likely to complain are mature students and post-graduates, who have probably worked outside academia. Also over-represented are overseas students, who pay higher fees, and have uprooted their lives to study. Vocational degrees such as medicine feature heavily, possibly because a student's entire career is at stake.

Behrens emphasises his independence, but is concerned that embattled universities might make "extravagant promises", especially to attract lucrative international applicants. He believes that if the Brown Review (which emphasises students are consumers) is adopted, complaints will increase.

While disputes are usually settled before reaching court (indeed, legal action is allowed only if internal procedures have been exhausted) some students have sued their university. In 2002, a mature law student, Mike Austin, was awarded £30,000 by the University of Wolverhampton in an out of court settlement. His catalogue of grievances include crowded lecture halls, poorly drafted exams papers and inflated promises.

Lower-than-expected marks usually ruin plans for further study, which might have prompted Andrew Croskery to sue Queen's University, Belfast. The electrical engineering student was awarded a 2.2 instead of an expected 2.1, and this September he applied for a judicial review citing poor supervision of his studies (a 2.1 is usually required for a place on masters courses.)

The NUS has yet to see an onslaught of litigation for damages, but accepts that students will become more demanding when fees increase. President Aaron Porter told us: "Students must have more power to hold their institutions to account. Institutions must be required to repay fees to students where there is poor quality in delivery or promises not kept. They must face genuine penalties where malpractice and misadministration occur."

So the rule is this: if you have suffered severe problems with your course, first try your university's internal complaints procedure, which might ultimately offer financial reparations. If all else fails, English and Welsh students can seek redress with the OIA, or increasingly, the courts. After all, you're going to pay as much as £9,000 a year for your education.

Office of the Independent Adjudicator: http://www.oiahe.org.uk/

http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...-fails-deliver

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Unread 03-27-2015, 08:55 AM
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

umm me thinks so .. but not as much as you are hoping for!

Moon rules you
mars is the money from school
your money is in 9th house
moon trines jupiter
then moon goes to trine mars
you just cannot stand lol mars!
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  #7  
Unread 03-27-2015, 11:48 AM
horarymaster horarymaster is offline
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune Rising View Post
Hi,, thank you for your reply! I didn't know whether to use 7th for them or 9th. There is another post about this in the technique section.

So far, I've written a complaint email to them. But I have the feeling I'll need to take it further for anything to happen.

Its funny that, if they are Saturn, they are disposed by Jupiter who sits in my 2nd house. It does describe the situation quite well though.

I'll update you as and when the situation develops.

Ms. Neptune Rising,

With all due respect, we are aware that your question is important to you.

But, does my opinion carry any weight at all, to you ?

[offensive/non astro or thread related post removed - moderator]

I also believe that there is/was no real need to ask this question via a separate chart. The event chart for the time that you submitted the email request, in writing, IS AMPLE, and should tell us everything.

Therefore, the answers to your question are clearly revealed in that chart.

[offensive/non astro or thread related post removed - moderator]
Second, the Regiomontanus house system that people use on this AW site is frankly, obsolete, and adds to the confusion.

No astrologer of the modern realm uses Regiomontanus, anymore !

So, if you can, please post with Placidus cusps, as well, since you have posted virtually every other chart imaginable, already ! LOL

For example, your event chart for the request by email has an intercepted (Regiomontanus) first house, (Aries) but with Placidus, PIsces is rising and Aries is NOT intercepted in the 1st house

That is significant, because in horary work, intercepted planets and houses typically increase accidental debilitation.

However, using Placidus cusps, the Moon, Uranus and Mars, the co-significators, are not intercepted at all.

Well, proponents of Lilly don't even use Uranus or the outer planets, so no point even mentioning it.

As I stated earlier, the William Lilly rules cannot work very well with your question, since refunds by debit card are a 21st century, 8th house matter and there were no debit or credit cards during the time of William Lilly.

Therefore, as stated earlier, the 8th house and its ruler, Pluto, must have dominion over paperless refunds.

But, here you are, still wondering if the 7th house is valid ?

Seriously, have you read anything that I have posted, here.

The event chart that you posted shows that, in my opinion, your quest for a refund MIGHT happen, but you will likely run a gauntlet of beaurocracy before that actually happens.

I predict that your refund won't be a slam dunk, at all, and that you will have to fight for it, for it to happen.

There is also a possibility that you won't get a refund, even after all the fighting,

I am not sure why you didn't read and understand the college's refund policy before you paid for that course. It might well be too late to get a regular refund, since it is well into March/15 and two months, plus, have passed since January/15.

Most colleges have a 30 day policy for refunds after the date of enrollment, but 60 days, plus, seems really a stretch !

As far as getting a refund for breach of contract or breach of goods/services, good luck in getting that, as it is a (college) policy decision at best, or a court decision, and it won't be automatically granted.

Meanwhile, the event chart is clearly showing contradictory answers, here.

On one hand, you have radix Moon in Aries trine Jupiter in Leo, (rules both your ascendant (the querent) and also the 9th house (the college).

The Moon in Aries trine Jupiter likely represents you, with your unrealistic sense of entitlement for a refund, well past the expiry date for refunds.

Pisces rising, in a horary sense, is also typically symbolic of unrealistic expectation to begin with, but combined with the Moon in Aries, the Pisces/Aries mystique is typically self-righteous, as well !

That is not a criticism, per se, but merely an observation ! LOL

The radix Moon in Aries is also facing serious debilitation in its own right.

It takes a square to Pluto, the co ruler or the co significator of the 8th house.

That is NOT GOOD for you, it could mean that the refund cannot happen.

Then, the Moon is conjunct Uranus, a rather undependable aspect if you ask me ?

At the very least, it suggests unpleasant surprises and events not in your best interests.

Since the Moon is applying to Uranus, these are likely events that have not happened yet.

These debilitating aspects are further weakened by a significant 150 degree aspect that the chart ruler (jupiter) makes.

Mercury is inconjunct Jupiter, while Venus (the ruler of your second house of money) is taking an applying inconjunction to Saturn.

Venus and Saturn inconjunct is always a diminishment of finances and money, just ask anyone with that natal aspect, they are always broke and struggling for money.

Those are serious debilitations, indicating fated events that work against you.

I would suggest that a partial refund of your tuition is the best outcome that we could expect.

Finally, Moon's last aspect before in leaves the sign is a conjunction with Mars in Aries.

Since Mars (ruler of the 8th house) is dignified in Aries, the Moon's final conjunction with Mars also makes the Moon accidentally dignified, so if you decide to appeal the refund decision to the college's supervisors, or in a court of law, you might win that battle, but again, I predict that a full refund ain't gonna happen and you must be prepared to settle for a partial refund, if you wish to go the "full pull" !


good luck,


HM

Last edited by Neptune Rising; 03-28-2015 at 08:11 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 03-28-2015, 01:17 PM
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Red face Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

posted by horarymaster
Quote:
I also believe that there is/was no real need to ask this question via a separate chart. The event chart for the time that you submitted the email request, in writing, IS AMPLE, and should tell us everything.

Therefore, the answers to your question are clearly revealed in that chart.

The event chart is also a "valid" horary chart in its own right
Very usefull information HM I diden t now that
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Unread 03-28-2015, 04:40 PM
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

This is reminding me to always use a credit card. From my experience, the bank always covers it for at least one year even if policy is no exchanges or refunds...
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  #10  
Unread 03-28-2015, 08:08 PM
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Horary Master
Thank you for your comments, I seem to have provoked in you a feeling of not being heard... I will not comment or further add to your personal comments, needless to say, as a moderator, I am deleting the personal comments as AW rules states there are certain types of posts that are against forum rules - you can find these on the FAQ page.
As for the rest of your post, I appreciate your input.
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Last edited by Neptune Rising; 03-28-2015 at 11:43 PM.
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Unread 03-28-2015, 10:32 PM
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunrise View Post
posted by horarymaster

Very usefull information HM I diden t now that

Good afternoon, Sunrise...

You're most welcome.

Many "event" charts can and should also be interpreted as bonafide horary charts.

Just for example, that Germanwings co-pilot who slammed that airbus 320 airplane into the French Alps, a few days ago, killing all 149 passengers and crew onboard, the event chart for the take-off of the plane from the airport will likely have HIS SCORPION BLOOD all over the event chart.

That co-pilot, alledgely the most henious mass murderer in recent aviation history, will likely have left his "foot print" on that event chart.

If he was, indeed, the mastermind of the crash (and French prosecutors are telling us that that was the case), then that is quite likely ?

I may comment on that plane crash, later, I am real busy, right now.

Almost every professional astrologer that I know of will do an event chart for the moment of the consultation between a client, for example.

I have been doing such a chart for at least four decades, now.

That's over 10,000 charts, by the way !

The main benefit of doing such a chart is to ascertain the psychological state of mind of the querent and also, to tell us what is the main reason why the querent has come to astrology.

People come to astrology for all sorts of reasons, these days !

If the person is doing a reading to just pass the time of day or to test the astrologer, a stricture against judgement will normally appear in the chart (BUT not always !)

At the highest levels of horary astrology, a qualified horary instructor can turn a SINGLE event chart into a classroom instructional (secondary) training aid ?

For example, if I have an "in person" class of 10 people learning horary astrology for the first time, you can turn one event chart into a shooting
gallery of sorts.

Each person in the room can ask a unique personal question from that same chart and of course, the event chart will have to be turned in each instance.

Again, this type of event is only used at the highest levels of horary astrology and is not for amateurs or beginners.

Also, every community around the world that I am aware of has a local western astrology meetup group.

However, if your community does not have an IN PERSON astrology meetup group, I would strongly encourage you to organize one, yourself?

You should always publicize the first meetup event, well in advance, through the local traditional media and also, through facebook, twitter, etc.

Hold the meeting on a weeknight or on a weekend, like a Sunday, for best results, and make sure that the event chart ascendant ruler is beefed up, the Moon or Ascendant is applying to the ruler of the 11th house of community groups and that the radix Moon makes a favorable last aspect before it leaves the sign ?

If you are really good at computers, you can also broadcast the event live on Skype or Ustream for FREE. All you need is a webcam, a decent quality microphone and an internet connection, plus a facebook site.

You will also need a name for your group. The name must be simple and also aptly represent the area that you are living in.

Aim for 5 to 10 people to show up and make sure it that is in a public place, such as a public library or downtown hotel, accessible by public transit and also, accessible to the disabled.

(never hold the first group meetup in your own home).

Have coffee and refreshments available, as it really makes the meeting go smooth. I was once involved with a Calgary, Alberta, meetup group and the organizer was a woman with Sun and Moon in Cancer. She always brought home baked cookies to our meetings and they were real good !

Also, have a sign up sheet, ready, to pass around, with everyone's name, address and email address/phone number, etc.

Once people are there, it would be a feasible idea to discuss the idea of forming a not for profit astrology society, which can be done for as little as $ 100.00 U.S. dollars.

To raise the funds, ask everyone in the room to throw 10 or 20 bucks into a hat towards that purpose.

All you need is three people to form a valid Society; a President, a vice president, plus a secretary-treasurer.

You should hold a meeting every month or as the need arises.

You would also need a constitution and a set of bylaws. You can actually get a template for such a set of bylaws from your local government registrars office.

Once you have society status, which can be had in as little as a few weeks, you can qualify for discounts on rental of rooms for meetings and also apply for government grants, etc.

Also, you can do fundraisers in the community to raise funds and perhaps, to attract quality astrologers to your area to conduct seminars.

Lecturers of astrology tend to be busy folk, so you would want to book them well in advance, with six to 12 months notice.

You should try to get a "big name" astrologer or guest to kick off your first meeting.

Typically, you would need a budget voted on in advance, featuring plane fare, accomodation, plus a fee for their appearance, but all of that can be negotiated in advance.

It should be noted that not all astrology groups pay their lecturers and some arrange for them to do "paid" consultations while at the event or afterwards, as a way of rewarding them for their time.

One of the key benefits of REAL, "in person" astrology meetings and instruction is to develop social skills and personal intimacy that you could not possible obtain by texting or internet interaction alone.

It is sad to know that many young kids following astrology today have never actually attended a real, in person, astrology workshop or seminar, and thus, their personal astrological experience will always be limited.

One of the pitfalls of computer relationships, generally, is a lack of intimacy and unable to be intimate with human beings. All humans need real, in person interaction in order to become more well rounded in their personal relationships.

The other main benefit of forming an astrology group in your community is to see what others do ? i.e., to form a dialogue with the so-called "pretenders" of astrology in your community, those practicing astrology under the disguise of tarot cards, psychics, or witchcraft.

It's a thorny issue, indeed, but Tarot card readers and others should be dialoged with, in my view, and should be educated, so that their brand of astrology is elevated up a few notches from sun-sign readings and other garbage to real, natal chart horoscopy and meaningful western astrology methods !

The best way to educate the "crystal ball readers" is to invite them to your local astrology seminar featuring an expert, like a Robert Hand or a Nick Campion.

There are many, many, good reasons to form a local astrology meetup group, not just for horary astrology fans, but fans of natal astrology, mundane, medical/relationship astrology, relocation astrology, etc.

If you don't do anything, and just visit astrology forums like these, don't be surprised if, one day, tarot readers and witches just take over your astrology community, period, just like the good ole' days of the Dark Ages
and the Heretic conspiracy era of history. LOL


cheers,


HM















.

Last edited by horarymaster; 03-28-2015 at 10:46 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 03-28-2015, 10:52 PM
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune Rising View Post
Hi,

I asked horary if I would get a refund from my college course. I have decided to quit because of really poor teaching. I am not sure which houses to use for this. The educational institution is the 9th house, so I am wondering if their money is the 10th?

I am Moon
My money is Sun.
10th house is Mars.

Moon will trine Jupiter, Mars and then square Sun.

Moon is in triplicity of Sun, Jupiter is also in Sun's sign of Leo. Mars is in Sun's exhaltation and tripliclity. Interesting dynamics. Could this suggest a refund will come but with difficulty?

Mars is in its house, strong. They are worried about their reputation. Mars is also staying in their 2nd house. While I have Jupiter in my 2nd house which may be beneficial.
Also Sun and Jupiter are in mutual reception.

Could anyone help please?

Thanks

Going back on topic, I think the delineation given by melleoscorp and tikana are correct.

Essentially:

You = Moon
College = 9th (Jupiter)
Money from College = 10th (Mars)

With moon trining Jupiter first, then trining mars it is likely that you would recieve the refund you are asking for.

Trining jupiter first would probably mean you have to request it, or initiate the process.

What is the "event" chart everyone is talking about?
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  #13  
Unread 03-28-2015, 10:55 PM
Neptune Rising Neptune Rising is offline
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
umm me thinks so .. but not as much as you are hoping for!

Moon rules you
mars is the money from school
your money is in 9th house
moon trines jupiter
then moon goes to trine mars
you just cannot stand lol mars!
Thanks Tik, I get that also, I will get some but not all. I can see how that is fair, as some of the teachers were good, its just one that wasn't providing the kind of teaching that we could learn from.
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Unread 03-28-2015, 10:59 PM
Neptune Rising Neptune Rising is offline
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Going back on topic, I think the delineation given by melleoscorp and tikana are correct.

Essentially:

You = Moon
College = 9th (Jupiter)
Money from College = 10th (Mars)

With moon trining Jupiter first, then trining mars it is likely that you would recieve the refund you are asking for.

Trining jupiter first would probably mean you have to request it, or initiate the process.

What is the "event" chart everyone is talking about?
Thanks Dirius! Interesting as I have initiated the process now, just have to see what they come back with.

Ah the wild event chart!

Not sure if it should raise that relic... ah ok then, here it is. Its for the moment I sent the email. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=83001

Anyway, I will update both threads as to progress. Thanks again for everyones posts.
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Unread 06-26-2015, 03:21 PM
Neptune Rising Neptune Rising is offline
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Re: Will I get a refund from the college?

I finally have an update. I almost left it as I have too much happening at the moment and I didn't want the hassle. But I recently wrote to them as my intention was based on principle - from two classes there was poor teaching, and one of my assignments was incorrectly handled. I made a point to not include the teachers who taught good content in their classes, in my complaint to the college. I'm happy to have paid for these classes as I learned things from the teachers. My original intention was to make a point, that we as students should expect more, but then I was encouraged to ask for a refund by some of the other students, so I thought, 'why not ask'. I'm becoming a cheekier girl as I age.

I think one poster in this thread got the impression that I wanted ALL the money back - not the case.

I will recieve a part refund, I don't know how much yet but it will help me to pay for a yoga course that I want to do which will improve my classes and myself.
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Last edited by Neptune Rising; 06-26-2015 at 04:12 PM.
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IleneK (06-27-2015), tikana (06-26-2015), Vyri (07-30-2015)
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