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  #1  
Unread 07-15-2014, 06:22 PM
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Mutual reception Vs Debility

Alright, another general technique question.

There is a lot of emphasis on mutual reception in horary, which I see the value of. But in relationship horary, more often than not, mutual reception means a serious debility for the significators in question. (example: sun in aquarius and Saturn in Leo). It also means and opposition. How is that good, really?

Even when the mutual reception is by exaltation, it may mean a hard aspect, like Mars in Libra square Saturn in Capricorn (in which case coincidentally, Mars is still debilitated).

This whole issue of debility and hard aspect seems to be most highly probable in cases if mutual reception in relationship horaries. Doesn't that mean some sort of unhappiness or troublesome unions? How important is reception compared to essential dignity in relationship questions?

(Obviously, reception by term or face are an exception, but they are not as powerful anyway).

What do you think?

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Unread 07-18-2014, 01:35 PM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

Bumping up. Any takers?
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Unread 07-25-2014, 09:06 AM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

Absolutely. You are 100% correct. You have answered your own question: I had the exact cases you ve described, and what it meant is that these couples were not what you would call exactly compatible and yet they chose to stay together anyways, for unexplicable reasons. Do we call it love? Obsession? Habit? In any case, mutual reception is a "very strong" (in all capitals) reception where one planet allows the other execute their will - and let them do whatever they want (in astrology we try to avoid the word love). So despite their opposition is these cases people tend to stay together anyways, despite detrimenting each other, hurting each other, oppressing each other, and not being really good for each other... Not really recognizing or valuing each other's strengths, not being able to operate optimally, not being able to express freely as they wish, and yet these couples are strangely co-depended in their misery and need to be together. If they separate (opposition), they tend to re-unite (check other placements for confirmation).

A lot of people underestimate mutual receptions - they are a very strong testimony "in favor" of whatever the Significator wants - however in my cases, my significations always wanted to be the victims of their love... They wanted to stay in unhappy relationships and they chose to blame themselves for the relationship not really working. Being an astrologer I am not qualified to give advice but my job is to be objective and answer a question... At the same time abstaining from providing your own opinion or even jumping to obvious conclusions. However we don't have the liberty to do this - chart analysis takes over and you simply become "the messenger from the stars".
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Unread 07-25-2014, 11:15 AM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summery Joy View Post
Alright, another general technique question.

There is a lot of emphasis on mutual reception in horary, which I see the value of. But in relationship horary, more often than not, mutual reception means a serious debility for the significators in question. (example: sun in aquarius and Saturn in Leo). It also means and opposition. How is that good, really?

Even when the mutual reception is by exaltation, it may mean a hard aspect, like Mars in Libra square Saturn in Capricorn (in which case coincidentally, Mars is still debilitated).

This whole issue of debility and hard aspect seems to be most highly probable in cases if mutual reception in relationship horaries. Doesn't that mean some sort of unhappiness or troublesome unions? How important is reception compared to essential dignity in relationship questions?

(Obviously, reception by term or face are an exception, but they are not as powerful anyway).

What do you think?
BobZemco's comment on Horary Theory, includes the matter of Reception
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Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post

The theory behind Horary is very simple:

1) there is a Question that weighs very heavily on your mind.

2) when you have a clear understanding of what it is that you really want to know, you cast a chart or an astrologer casts one for you

3) That freezes the Planets as they transit the heavens at that moment (hence: Horary)

4) the Rising Sign and Planet that rules the Rising Sign represents you

5) the House, or often more correctly, the Sign that represents the Matter you're asking about and the Planet that rules that Sign represents the Matter. The Matter can be a person or a thing or an idea (like a rumor or a dream).

6) the relationship between those two rulers tells you what has happened, and what is yet to come. That relationship is in the form of aspects. If there are no aspects, then there is nothing to come.

7) the Moon plays a special dual-role signifying the State of Mind of the Querent and also how things play out, how they happen, and when they happen. When there are no aspects formed by the Moon (ie it is Void of Course) then nothing will happen. Note that there are a handful of certain special select Horary Questions where a Void of Course Moon is not relevant. Those are often war, conflict or legal questions, or Questions related to Career.

8)
in addition to forming aspects,
those Planets must also have Perfect Reception,
as opposed to simple Reception.
Reception is about "allowing."
For example if Mars is applying in aspect to Jupiter,
and Jupiter receives Mars
then Jupiter is allowing Mars to act.
Jupiter is effectively saying, "Go ahead and do that thing that you do."
If Jupiter does not receive Mars,
then Jupiter is effectively saying, "Go away and leave me alone. Go. Get out of here."
If it is a Sign of Enmity,
like Mars in Capricorn (the Fall of Jupiter)
then Jupiter is effectively saying, "Cease and Desist. I will stop you from doing anything.
If necessary, I may even get violent to stop you."
And that just might be the case
if Jupiter were also in a Violent Sign,
otherwise Jupiter would just keep slamming doors in your face.


9)
How things actually play out depends a lot on the "strength" of the Planets involved.
The strength of the Planets indicates their ability to do,
act and do things
and carry out plans
and make things happen.
A Planet that is not just in its own Sign,
but also in its Triplicity or Term,
and is Direct in Motion,
Fast in Speed,
Angular or Succedent,
in Hayz,
in a trine aspect with Venus/Jupiter/Sun is very powerful.
That's a person with a purpose in life who has both the will and ability to act and make things happen.


A Planet that is Slow in Speed,
Retrograde,
in Fall/Detriment,
Cadent,
and not in Sect
or worse is Out-of Sect
isn't going to be able to do anything,
even when there is Perfect Reception in the chart,
this person is going to botch every thing up and turn a dream about ponies and gum-drops into a nightmare,
because they don't have the strength or will to make things happen.


10) when charts have early/late Ascendants, Void of Course Moons, Moon via Combusta, Saturn in the 1st or 7th House (when not a significator) you can look at the chart for reasons why you are getting those warnings.

Often a non-significator Planet is making an aspect to one of the primary significators.
Sextiles and trines usually indicate on-going events
which first must be completed before anything can happen.
Conjunctions, squares and opposition usually indicate obstacles
that are preventing things from happening,
and with the "hard" aspects sometimes things can still happen if those obstacles can be overcome.


The condition and placement of the Moon/Ascendant Ruler will tell you the State of Mind and what kind of person the Querent is; good-hearted, or ambivalent, or in sheer terror, in a total panic, has the "stink of desperation" or is immature and selfish, looking do to harm, or is someone you wouldn't let your dog go near. The Planet that is the Quesited/Matter will tell you about them, but not with the same clarity as the Querent. A poorly placed 10th House Ruler might be a job you really don't want, because it ain't all that or isn't what you think it is. A poorly placed 7th House Ruler is someone you might not really want to be with, or something you don't really want to buy and so on.

For a Planet (like the Ascendant Ruler) in Detriment, it is important that it make an aspect to the 1st House (ie it is not inconjunct in the 2nd, 6th, 8th or 12th Houses), and for other significators that it aspect the House it rules.
A Planet that is inconjunct to the House it rules can't witness or give testimony to the affairs of that House.
That means it cannot control those events,
and being weak in Detriment has even less control and less ability to effect outcomes.
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Unread 07-26-2014, 08:15 PM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

OK, guys. Here's a chart where I'd love to see your points applied. Please have a look.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...844#post564844
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Unread 07-30-2014, 01:47 AM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summery Joy View Post
Alright, another general technique question.

There is a lot of emphasis on mutual reception in horary, which I see the value of. But in relationship horary, more often than not, mutual reception means a serious debility for the significators in question. (example: sun in aquarius and Saturn in Leo). It also means and opposition. How is that good, really?

Even when the mutual reception is by exaltation, it may mean a hard aspect, like Mars in Libra square Saturn in Capricorn (in which case coincidentally, Mars is still debilitated).
you're considering cases of mutual reception only, it seems. the applying planet is the one that really needs to be received. motion toward already indicates interest (i.e., Venus applying to Mars in a relationship chart). reception helps smooth out the storm, and in the cases of MR by opposition we'd judge the situation to be similar to people with irreconcilable differences but wish no real damage upon the other.

but picture Venus in Aries applying to a sextile of Mars in Gemini, trine to Mars in Leo, or sextile to Mars in Aquarius. that's a pretty good argument of a successful relationship, because Mars is reciprocating interest and generosity towards applying planet Venus.
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Unread 07-31-2014, 05:12 PM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

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Originally Posted by wca View Post
picture Venus in Aries applying to a sextile of Mars in Gemini, trine to Mars in Leo, or sextile to Mars in Aquarius. that's a pretty good argument of a successful relationship, because Mars is reciprocating interest and generosity towards applying planet Venus.
I'm not sure if that denotes success, wca. I was once in a relationship, whose event chart (from the moment the guy told me he was interested in me), where I was signified by the Sun in Aquarius, him by Saturn in Scoprio. During the whole relationship I felt "out of place". It felt like I cannot really be myself in order for him to accept (receive) me. He, signified by a peregrine planet, couldn't lead the relationship, always waiting for me to take the wheel.

I eventually broke up with him (which was also shown in that chart), as I was just uncomfortable despite being quite interested in him (Sun was in the 7th) and him willing to give it his best shot (Saturn received Sun). The planets were took weak despite of the the reception. We were both quite uncomfortable.
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  #8  
Unread 07-31-2014, 11:28 PM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summery Joy View Post
I'm not sure if that denotes success, wca. I was once in a relationship, whose event chart (from the moment the guy told me he was interested in me), where I was signified by the Sun in Aquarius, him by Saturn in Scoprio. During the whole relationship I felt "out of place". It felt like I cannot really be myself in order for him to accept (receive) me. He, signified by a peregrine planet, couldn't lead the relationship, always waiting for me to take the wheel.

I eventually broke up with him (which was also shown in that chart), as I was just uncomfortable despite being quite interested in him (Sun was in the 7th) and him willing to give it his best shot (Saturn received Sun). The planets were took weak despite of the the reception. We were both quite uncomfortable.
you actually made a good point, because I wasn't paying attention to the fact that putting Venus in Aries put her in detriment. put her in Capricorn, then, still in a harmonious applying aspect to Mars from whatever sign doesn't damage Venus. my point, however, remains that this isn't always about mutual reception but one-sided reception has its very tangible benefits and uses too.
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Unread 08-15-2014, 12:16 AM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summery Joy View Post
Alright, another general technique question.

There is a lot of emphasis on mutual reception in horary, which I see the value of. But in relationship horary, more often than not, mutual reception means a serious debility for the significators in question. (example: sun in aquarius and Saturn in Leo). It also means and opposition. How is that good, really?
Simply, it is all about context. Things like mutual reception in love questions will have a slightly different meaning. In this case, it symbolizes how we must give and take and do things that don't always benefit us but benefit the other. As long as this is not one-sided, ergo mutual -- then it is ok.

Last edited by RayAustin; 08-15-2014 at 12:20 AM.
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Unread 09-17-2016, 06:34 PM
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Re: Mutual reception Vs Debility

Mutual reception by opposition may bring the matter to fruition, but most likely the two parties will be at odds with each other and neither party will be happy with the situation.
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