The 1960's and the Hippie Phenomena.

Greetings.

There was a Uranus - Pluto conjunction in 1965, both direct motion at the time, another conjunction while both were retrograde in 1966 and a final conjunction while both were in direct motion, again, also in 1966.

Uranus - Pluto conjunctions only occur but once every 115 years, give or take a few months, and it is a period that has been observed to have always been revolutionary in nature. Those born under its influence have a destiny to usurp or reform outmoded social institutions and cultural norms. According to two of my favorite authors, astrologers Frances Sakoian and Louis S. Acker: "The conjunction represents an interaction between the personal will of the individual and the Universal Will of the Creator. If the individuals are highly developed, they become channels for expression of ideas which will better the human environment. They can use te conjunctions power to bring about a more precise understanding of the laws that govern conditions needing improvement in civilization. Such breakthroughs draw man closer to his origin in spirit and facilitate his evolutionary destiny: to return with full self consciousness to the source from which he emanated."

The two authors also noted that it was their belief that the conjunction is very Scorpionic, the Sign of exaltation for Uranus and of which Pluto rules That it is "highly occult" in significance and places a great emphasis on the "death and regeneration" qualities of Pluto. It can also be understood to be that which destroys restrictive manifestations of form releasing the spirit to seek more suitable embodiment.

I have found that the Sabian Symbols involved with the two planets and the Moons' North Node for these conjunctions that happened in 1965 and 1966 to be most definitely relevant to the changes that the time saw occur. Neptune was in Scorpio at the time and sextile to the conjunctions which occurred in Virgo and while I am a believer in Sidereal astrology the aspects remain the same regardless of what Sign they may have occured in but for those of you that don't ascribe to Sidereal observations you then might make note of the fact that Uranus, being the higher octave of Mercury, co-rules the Sign of Virgo. Neptune having been in the Sign of Scorpio, i.e. the Sign of exaltation for Uranus, and being in sextile to the conjunction may have further given this period of time a rather "exalted" influence.

Uranus and Pluto conjuncted for the first time since 1850 [that conjunction was the harbinger of social change in the United States when the issue of slavery reached its pinnacle, politically, leading up to the inevitable Civil War as cause to eliminate it.] on October 9, 1965 at 17* Virgo 09' 57", that is to say in the 18th degree of Virgo. Curiously the 18th degree of Virgo just so happens to be the Part of Soul of the natal chart for the USA [the "Zero Hour" chart, r.e. 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. A proven chart and I am thoroughly convinced of its legitimacy.] The Part of Soul derived from the USA's natal chart is at 17* Virgo 18' 24".

The Sabian Symbol for the 18th degree of Virgo is, according to Dane Rudhyar... from his definitive work on the Sabian Symbols, and the primary resource everyone should first consult whenever dealing with the interpretation of the Sabian Symbols, his book "An Astrological Mandala: The Cycle of Transformation and Its 360 Symbolic Phases".

"VIRGO 18°: A OUIJA BOARD.

KEYNOTE: The ability to contact deeper recesses of the unconscious psyche and sensitiveness to psychic intimations and omens.

The ouija board is to be considered here a modern device similar to many ancient instruments used for divination and prophecy. Certain states of threshold consciousness are stimulated by such a use, and what the experience produces may vary greatly in quality and in origin. The release of unconscious material has lost the explosive force pictorialized in the preceding symbol, yet at this stage there is still no conscious and willful control over what reaches the ego-consciousness.

This is the third stage of the thirty-fourth sequence of symbolic phases in the life process. It is at best a stage of transition which stresses a passive openness to the unknown. The glamour of it may subtly pervert the mind of the aspirant; but in some cases, this can be the first manifestation of INNER GUIDANCE. The difficulty is to correctly evaluate what or who does the guiding."

The keywords here according to Dane are "Inner Guidance". So appropriate for the Part of Soul of the United States as it was founded in Philadelphia, the city founded by the Quakers, my maternal ancestors, and the Quakers believe foremost in that very inner guidence. We are taught to "listen to the 'Inner Voice' ".

Thus the great social change this conjunction was about was right in harmony with the American Spirit. The Cosmos was telling us to trust our inner instincts... we inherently knew , we know, what was wrong, what is wrong, with our society and how it needed, how it yet still needs to, change.

It was a breakaway from the Old Worlds religious institutions which had become for the most part, if not all, more about political concerns than spiritual and that was why the early American religious refugees that founded the nation were being given that natal horoscope for the new nation they founded a natal horoscope that portrayed and secured a shared societal Part of Soul/Spirit that was to be unfettered by any centralized, politicized, dogma. An American Spirit/Soul that was to trust in the "Inner Guidance"...some would put it as "Let go and Let God"....or perhaps you would prefer how the Incredible String Band stated it in a song?
From, "A Very Cellular Song" by The Incredible String Band.
"May the long time sun shine upon you
All love surround you
And the pure light within you
Guide you all the way on."

The Sign and degrees for the chart axis for both Pluto and Uranus' ingress into the coordinates for the conjunction point were exactly the same. Plutos' ingress was at 4:04:40 p.m in Philadelphia that day and Uranus' ingress was at 4:05:35 p.m. The Asc - Desc. in the 19th degrees of Aquarius and Leo The M.C. and I.C. in the 7th degrees of Sagittarius - Gemini.
The Asc. of any chart is the "WHO" of that person in a natal chart and it is the "WHO" of the persona of a society in a national chart and it is the "WHO" of the spirit , the soul, of any event chart. The Desc. is the "WHERE-TO" [although, sometimes, "WHOM-TO" is a bit more appropriate] The I.C. of a chart is the "HOW" that transition is to be made, when interpreting it in a mundane sense, the M.C. is the "HOW" for a spiritual interpretation in consideration that We are ever spiritually evolving. The opposite points, either the M.C. for the mundane, the I.C. for the spiritual, is to be interpreted as the "WHY".

The common Asc. being in the 19th degree of Aquarius gives the "WHO" of the spirit, the soul, of the event of the Uranus Pluto conjunction for the United States at the time.
[ibid.]

"AQUARIUS 19°: A FOREST FIRE IS BEING SUBDUED BY THE USE OF WATER, CHEMICALS AND SHEER MUSCULAR ENERGY.

KEYNOTE: The skill and courage necessary to bring under control the destructive potential of carelessness of karmic 'visitations'.

Forest fires may be caused by human carelessness, by lightning or by the by-products of modern technology. Every individual — at least once in his lifetime, if not repeatedly — may perhaps have to face spectacular reactions to seemingly insignificant acts. These are to be considered means to test his strength, ingenuity or emotional stability. Every faculty at his disposal must be made use of — emotional, mental, physical. He needs faith in himself and in superior Powers.

At this fourth stage of the five-fold series we are shown man in action in a crucial and potentially devastating situation. There is need for a total mobilization of energy and a deep sense of INDOMITABILITY."

The nation had undergone a political coup in November of 1963. those very moneyed and powerful interests that former president Eisenhower warned the nation about in his farewell speech, i.e. "the military industrial complex", had seized power and were trying to wield it with an iron fist. They instigated and escalated a war in Southeast Asia, in Vietnam. Racial discrimination was at it "Rubicon' . Consumerism was being shoved down everyones throat, or in their face, or up their... yeah, you know... American society had become and was being deliberately compelled to become more and more, artificial...plastic... that Life was cheap and that it was seditious to question the direction it was being driven towards

We, as a society, were being "visited" by destructive karma and we knew we had to change the course, seek a constructive, a spiritually evolutionary, destination for American society as a whole. Hell no, we weren't going to go fight a non threatening, so called, enemy. We weren't going to continue recognizing racial barriers and we declared all peoples of all colours, brothers and sisters in soul, in spirit, and we were no longer going to recognize, legitimize, social and political privilege based on monetary wealth.

The Desc. in the 19th degree of Leo is the destination for the transformation decreed by the Uranus Pluto conjunction. It is symbolically given by the Sabian Symbol found for that Sign and degree as... [ibid.]

"LEO 19°: A HOUSEBOAT PARTY.

KEYNOTE: The enjoyment of temporary freedom from rigidly structured social behavior.

This symbol in a sense duplicates the one for Leo 12°, except that it implies a less conventional and more youth-oriented type of gathering. The houseboat brings an intimacy and a 'bohemian' character to the relationships between the participants, while 'the evening lawn party' reflects a more socially respectable and superficial kind of interaction between middle-class sophisticates. The houseboat may be anchored, yet it floats on the river which — symbolically at least — extends far beyond the narrow social setup. What is suggested is that in such a gathering, men and women seek to at least get the feeling of the free flow of energies, as an escape from the routine activities of their business or student lives.

This fourth stage symbol indicates the possibility of finding 'release' for natural energies in group entertainment and enhanced interpersonal contacts. It speaks of FREEDOM FROM SOCIAL RIGIDITY."

EXACTLY... i DON'T THINK i NEED TO SAY ANYTHING IN ADDITION, TO FURTHER EXPLAIN OR SUPPLEMENT. RUDHYAR'S KEYWORDS, "FREEDOM FROM SOCIAL RIGIDITY" SAYS IT ALL.

As we are dealing with the mundane here [generally best, I have found, for all considerations other than natal charts] let's take a look at what the i.C. in the 7th degree of Gemini says as to the means as to "HOW" [ibid.]

"GEMINI 7°: A WELL WITH BUCKET AND ROPE UNDER THE SHADE OF MAJESTIC TREES.

KEYNOTE: Man's primordial faith in the hidden sustaining power of life.

In contrast with the ambitious drive of modern man for power and wealth we now have the image of the eternal search for that which is at the root of all living processes, i.e. water. This search also demands some effort — raising the water-filled bucket — but it is a simple natural effort under the shade of trees which attest to the presence of the life-giving fluid. This presence depends on the cooperation of sky (rain) and earth (the geological formation able to hold the water), and man must develop the intuitive sense which enables him to feel this presence and to make it effectual in his daily life. He must sense the hidden reality which preserves for the use of all living organisms this gift of the 'sky', the bounteous rain.

At this second stage of the fourteenth five-fold sequence of symbols, the power of the collective and bio-spiritual energies which sustain all earth-rooted cultures is stressed, in contrast to whatever the technological mind of man can make available to increase his personal comfort and mastery over matter. The symbol implies A FUNDAMENTAL TRUST IN AND COOPERATION WITH LIFE. "

I really don't think I need to elaborate or further explain the symbol as to its being the "HOW" of the tranformational process, either.

It's all symbolically so very spot on to what the scene was at the time...what brought the "Hippies" into existence...they pretty much appeared spontaneously everywhere...albeit, San Francisco seemed to be leading the way, somewhat, there was obviously some astrological explanation as to why it was the focal center... we'll get to that later on.

The M.C. provides the answer as to "WHY" the Cosmos was compelling this transformation and as to HOW it wanted it done... that is symbolically explained by the 7th degree of Sagittarius,. [ibid.]

"SAGITTARIUS 7°: CUPID KNOCKS AT THE DOOR OF A HUMAN HEART.

KEYNOTE: A stirring-up of individual longings for romantic love.

In contrast to the preceding, this symbol refers to what one might call a personal initiation through an ideal love. Far from being related to social value, ideal love tends to exalt individual characteristics in that it glorifies what seems able to fill poignant and often unconscious needs. Such a love is a projection of the anima or animus Images which in a sense complement the outer character of the one who loves. It is a subjective event which tends to bring to the lover a crisis or emotional chaos. Such a love often turns asocial if not antisocial and is blocked or frowned upon by society.

This second stage symbol is in direct opposition to that of the 'cricket game'. Intensely romantic love knows no rules and ignores collective purpose or dictates of reason. Yet it may bring to the individual an intensity of feeling which no group togetherness can arouse, at least at the ordinary social level. What is implied is a challenge to EMOTIONAL REBIRTH."

So as to "WHY"?
Because it was all about the LOVE, folks... yes sirree
Not selfish, possessive love but the "Ideal of Love" had to be made a part of the consciousness of our society... in fact made the prime directive of that consciousness.

There are two Parts of Fortune for the initiation of the event...the 10th degree of Leo when Pluto entered the conjunction coordinates, the 11th degree of Leo at Uranus' ingress.
The Part of Fortune, so misleadingly translated from ancient languages, would be more appropriately titled as Part of Fortuitous Circumstance [or Fortuitous Action or Opportunity] it is not about a "fortune" of wealth, but rather that which provides the most fortuitous circumstances, or outcome, that enables one to sucessfully fulfill the dharma of the chart... the natal destiny of a natal chart.

As all the Sabian Symbols fall into one of three definitive types, as perceived and presented by Dane Rudhyar, i.e "Actional", "Emotional/Cultural", or "Individual/Mental", depending on which of the three a Part is found to symbolically be in gives the process by which it should be given its ignition. The 10th degree of Leo, the Sign and degree for Pluto's ingress to the conjunction coordinates, is one of the "Emotional/Cultural" Sabian Symbols and that means it is an attitude, a state of mind, that has to be shared culturally in order for it's precept to be given effective ignition. [ibid.]

"LEO 10°: EARLY MORNING DEW SPARKLES AS SUNLIGHT FLOODS THE FIELD.

KEYNOTE: The exalted feeling that rises within the soul of the individual who has successfully passed through the long night which has tested his strength and his faith.

The cold air of night having precipitated upon the field of man's consciousness the moisture of his deepest feelings, this widely spread dew is blessed with the light of significance by the rising sun of the new day. Even tears can be transformed into jewels in the light of victory over night and sorrow.

At this fifth stage of the present sequence we see the potential culmination of the process which began on a note of social and cultural crisis. The would-be reformer has to meet many emotional problems as he begins his work of creation. Creation means transformation; the reformer is actually a transformer if he is truly a creative and inspired individual open to the spirit that 'makes everything new.' The building of a new society, and of one's renewed personality as well, is just as much a process of artistic creation as the making of a delicate glass vase or a symphony. The Keyword is TRANSFIGURATION."

That last paragraph really says it all...please read it again and again, if necessary...let it soak into your mind...
Well, maybe a few of you needed that encouragement and those of you that weren't alive at the time... the rest of us, old hippies" recognized the validity immediately, i'm sure.

The 11th degree of Leo is the location of the Part of Fortune for the Uranus ingress chart. It is of the "Individual/Mental" type of Sabian Symbol. meaning that it has t be applied mentally in consideration of all assessments and plans for action therewith. [ibid.]

"LEO 11°: CHILDREN PLAY ON A SWING HANGING FROM THE BRANCHES OF A HUGE OAK TREE.

KEYNOTE: The power of tradition as it shelters the beginnings of individual self-expression.

The great Tradition of mankind has been symbolized by a vast tree, every spiritual Teacher being one of its many branches issuing from the one trunk of a primordial Revelation. As a man begins his spiritual journey he is like a child in a state of excitement, playing with rhythmic up-and-down moods. He plays with words and concepts which 'hang' from the 'branches' of the Tradition — and often the whole quest is mainly a game for him. Yet he is securely held by the tree, protected by its foliage from too great and burning a light.

This begins the twenty-seventh five-fold sequence of symbols; it deals essentially with the release of emotional intensity at various levels of the individualized consciousness as it reacts to the newly developed potentialities of the mind. We are dealing at this first stage with the SPONTANEOUS ACTIVITY OF THE INNOCENT MIND."

Just keep an song in your heart, a smile on your face, and play nice with your playmates...and build something beautiful together...trust in the process...it goes so well with that symbol for the I.C., the 7th of Gemini whihc is defined by the keywords given by Dane, if you recall or refer back, as being "A FUNDAMENTAL TRUST IN AND COOPERATION WITH LIFE. "

The Moons' North Node gives symbolically the precept that all the other astrological activity at any given moment is "depositing into"...that is to say what all the rest is working ultimately in effort for.

The North Node of the Moon at the time was in the 6th degree of Gemini and was in fact conjunct the I.C., although of the next in sequence of the process of transformation symbolically in the process of spiritual evolutionary transformation. [PLEASE NOTE. THE ZODIACAL DEGREES WHEN FOLLOWED IN SEQUENCE BEGINNING WITH ARIES 01* AND ENDING 359 DEGREES LATER AT PISCES 30* REPRESENTS A PROCESS OF TRANSFORMATION INTO THE MUNDANE...THAT IS BECOMING MORE IMMERSED IN MAYA. THE ZODIACAL DEGREE WHEN BEGUN AT VIRGO 30* AND FOLLOWED IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION FOR 359 DEGREES REPRESENTS A PROCESS OF SPIRITUAL TRANSFORMATION, THAT IS TO SAY OF SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION, THE FREEING OF ONESELF FROM MAYA.]

[ibid.]

"GEMINI 6°: WORKMEN DRILLING FOR OIL.

KEYNOTE: The avidity for that knowledge which ensures wealth and power.

This symbol superficially considered can be referred to the insatiable drive of modern man for power and wealth, his readiness to accept the risk of failure. But it has a deeper meaning, especially if related to the next symbol. Oil is the end result of the decay of living materials. Drilling for oil may represent the attempt to penetrate to the deep layers of the collective Unconscious and to reawaken the powers of the archaic psyche which once flourished — for instance in the true ceremonial magic of the tribal world, perhaps among the adepts of the fabled Atlantis, or even among the shamans and witch doctors of more recent times. The archaic powers may be 'refined' for modern situations, but the almost inevitable result is the release of noxious waste products, 'pollution'. And there is a pollution of consciousness as well as of the atmosphere man breathes.
The zodiacal sign Gemini has basically the meaning of insatiable curiosity and avidity for knowledge; it is logically a 'human' sign (the Twins). One of the Twins tends to seek power and knowledge from the ancient past, the other to discover a living source of strength and wisdom which is forever being replenished by the celestial downpour of Spiritual Consciousness and love (cf. the next symbol). It is man's nature, alas, to begin with potentially negative emotions and desires.

This is the first stage of the fourteenth five-fold sequence of cyclic phases. It deals with the emotional and, at the present-day level of evolution, socially prized reaction of most human beings to the attainment of new forms of knowledge, i.e. AMBITION. "

As near as I am able to estimate/calculate when the exact and precise conjunction between Uranus and Pluto occurred was at 4:07:22 p.m. [Uranus' egress was at 4:12:36 p.m and Plutos' egress was at 04:17:09 p.m.]
Everything was the same as already given except the degrees of the Signs at the Asc. and Desc.
They were in the subsequent degrees of Aquarius and Leo.
[ibid.]
The "WHO" at the exact conjunction [ibid.]

"AQUARIUS 20°: A LARGE WHITE DOVE BEARING A MESSAGE.

KEYNOTE: The answer of spiritual agencies to thorough, sustained and victorious individual efforts.

This concludes most significantly this series of five symbols. The individual who has gone courageously and with indomitable spirit through his crucial crisis receives, as it were, a deep spiritual blessing from the Soul-realm: 'Mission accomplished. Peace be with you'. And in this blessing a secret prophecy of what is yet to come may be seen by the perspicacious and spiritually sensitive mind of the recipient. Every real spiritual step a man takes in his development is the result of a victory over forces of inertia or destruction. The Divine is totally 'present' in the heart of all true victories.

This is the fifth and last symbol of the sixty-fourth series. What the 'message' is depends on the particular situation, but the white dove always signifies peace; at the very heart of this peace is the CERTIFICATION of individual worth and victory."

...AIN'T THAT BEAUTIFUL... MAN?

The Desc. of the actual conjunction, "the "WHERE-TO"...
[ibid.]

"LEO 20°: ZUNI INDIANS PERFORM A RITUAL TO THE SUN.

KEYNOTE: A return to the glorification of natural energies.

While the first symbol of this five-fold sequence pictured the magnificence of the returning sun after a storm, in this last symbol we see, by implication, man returning to nature and glorifying the sun after the long crisis of 'civilized' living in artificial cities. For many years now, the American Pueblo Indian has been for the weary city dweller and the dried-up intellectual a symbol of this 'return to nature'. After having ruthlessly destroyed him, we come to him as an exemplar of peaceful and harmonious group living.

This fifth symbol of the twenty-eighth sequence brings us the image of a reversal of our socialized activity and opens for us the way to the deepest release of our long-denied root energies. Natural man links himself consciously to the source of all life on earth. And this means IDENTIFICATION THROUGH WORSHIP — and the sanctification of the creative power."


...as Crosby, Stills and Nash sang...

"Well, I came upon a child of God
He was walking along the road
And I asked him, Tell me, where are you going
This he told me
Said, I'm going down to Yasgur's Farm
Gonna join in a rock and roll band
Got to get back to the land and set my soul free
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
Well, then can I roam beside you?
I have come to lose the smog,
And I feel myself a cog in somethin' turning
And maybe it's the time of year
Yes and maybe it's the time of man
And I don't know who I am
But life is for learning
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we…"


Pray for Peace, ptv

The event chart for the estimated exact conjunction




I will be following up to this post with observations about the following two conjunctions Uranus and Pluto had following this initial one in October of 1965... and what part the other planets had in influence...particularly Neptune in Scorpio and Jupiter found its way into a Grand Trine with Neptune later on that also involved Venus... all leading up to the "Summer of Love" of 1967
Beautiful, huh?
Yeah, I think so.

Keep the Faith, stay true to your dreams.
ptv

I was in my mid-20s when the Hippies invaded.

What I noticed was a dramatic increase in violence, the spread of the drug culture (which has brought us to the opioid scourge). Vietnam.

As far as Sabian symbols go, although devised and intended for use with the ascending degree, they are not astrological in nature. They were visualized by the psychic Elsie Wheeler and the images she described correlated with the zodiacal degrees in a randomized process by Jones, in a purposeful collaboration. But they have no astrological basis.

I have Rudhyar's book and use it, but most often prefer the volume by Jones, who created these symbols. I only use them as an ancillary tool. I understand that some astrologers base their practice on these symbols, like Blaschke.

Ptv, what Sabian symbol should I be using for my Sun @ 28 degrees 1' ? Do you go to the next degree (29 ), or go with 28? Thanks!

david starling said:

Ptv, what Sabian symbol should I be using for my Sun @ 28 degrees 1' ? Do you go to the next degree (29 ), or go with 28? Thanks!

Click to expand...

Always "round up"...there are 30 symbols per sign...
Unless you have got Sun at 28* 00' 00" you must refer to the 29th degree.
There is no 00* 00' 00" of any Sign, there is however a 30* 00' 00" of every Sign, but remember that all heavenly activity is ephemeral and that is a position that is so briefly obtained and held... yet it does exist.

The Sabian Symbol for the 29th degree of Pisces [ibid.]

"PISCES 29°: LIGHT BREAKING INTO MANY COLORS THROUGH A PRISM.

KEYNOTE: The analytical power of the mind necessary for the formulation of life processes in their many aspects.

Cycles of existence begin in unity and end in what I have called 'multi-unity'. At the stage of consummation the many individual differences are totaled; they constitute a sum. Within that sum — a unified total — the inevitability of the future process of differentiation is implied, because every cycle leaves a mass of waste products slowly returning to the unconscious state of chemical matter, of 'humus'. What the symbol tells us is that unity will always break again into multiplicity. The 'prism' is always there. There is no absolute unity; if anything could be called 'absolute' it is the relationship between the One and the Many.

This fourth stage symbol of the concluding five-fold sequence of phases points to the fundamental type of operation in all modes of existence. The most beautiful and seemingly everlasting experience of unity will in time be superseded by the need to attend to a multiplicity of details. Existence implies DIFFERENTIATION."

SOUNDS VERY FITTING TO ME FROM WHAT I KNOW OF YOU FROM YOUR POSTS HERE IN THE FORUM.

For some reason, way back, I had seen the Dove bearing a message as pertaining to me. Now I notice that it fits the Moon in my Chart, which is at 19 degrees 42 minutes Aquarius. Any relevance?

i DID ERR IN THE FIRST POST BY STATING THAT EVERYTHING WAS THE SAME EXCEPT FOR THE DEGREES OF THE ASC. AND DESC. AT THE TIME OF THE "EXACT" CONJUNCTION AS THE PART OF FORTUNE FOR THE EXACT CONJUNCT MOVED AHEAD, AGAIN, ONE MORE DEGREE INTO THAT OF THE 12TH OF LEO.
[ibid.]

"LEO 12°: AN EVENING PARTY OF ADULTS ON A LAWN ILLUMINED BY FANCY LANTERNS.
KEYNOTE: Group-relaxation in fashionable surroundings as an escape from work routine.

While the preceding symbol dealt with the simple and spontaneous pleasure of children, this one refers to the more or less standardized and fashion-dictated relaxation of adults who have left behind their day's work and are exchanging pleasantries and gossip. The 'lawn' and the 'lanterns' are cultivated; the type of mind displayed in the animated conversations, stimulated by liquor, is thoroughly socialized and not always innocent. The great Tradition has become reduced to a mere social fashion.

This second stage symbol contrasts with that of the first phase. We have now reached a stage of SOPHISTICATION and involvement in externals and superficial intellectuality or wit."

...and so they did...to the degree that society would allow them to.

It was a most reactionary process for society to endure in America...in the late 1960's.... still is....
The effects of the conjunction of 1850 were not resolved until the 1960's...for the most part. [recall what I wrote about the 1850 conjunction and what that led to.]
The effects the compelling Cosmos is still actively pursuing the effect of the Uranus - Pluto conjunctions of 1965 -66 and will until the next time they conjunct, late in this 21st Century.

david starling said:

For some reason, way back, I had seen the Dove bearing a message as pertaining to me. Now I notice that it fits the Moon in my Chart, which is at 19 degrees 42 minutes Aquarius. Any relevance?

Click to expand...

I have noticed a connection between the prismatic conditions in the atmosphere causing rainbows, which does relate to the Dove bearing good tidings after the Flood.

What was Rudhyar's sabian symbol? Also, can you have more than one, say for the Moon's degree, or is it Sun only?

david starling said:

I have noticed a connection between the prismatic conditions in the atmosphere causing rainbows, which does relate to the Dove bearing good tidings after the Flood.

Click to expand...

That Sabian Symbol for your Asc., i.e. the 20th degree of Aquarius, the one with the dove, is "WHO" you are in your awareness and personality.

It's a pleasure knowing you.
[Late edit, correction. i realized after i wrote this post that you said it is your moon in that degree... well then, it is a reflection of your emotional nature... what moves you emotionally, or what your emotional being is subjected to... as that is more of how it works with my own natal moon ...my moon is in Aquarius too... the 25th degree and conjunct [same degree] with my natal charts' I.C.. It's a symbol of overcoming and rising above ones emotional makeup... my Sun is in the 17th degree of Taurus, Desc. in the 18th degree, but just minutes apart, it has a Sabian Symbol depicting the Soul overcoming the ego...which is what the Sun is all about, basically, at least as to a psychological sense of what the natal chart is about. My Asc. is symbolized by , Dane's keyword, the "TRANSFIGURATION" ...WHICH IS ABOUT CHANGING WHAT ONE APPEARS AS TO LOOK TO BE AS TO THE WORLD AROUND THEM... AND THE ASC. DOES GOVERN THE APPEARANCE PHYSICALLY... SO [WHOOPS, DANG CAPS LOCK...] and at my M.C. is Pluto just about three and a half degrees away...[Part of Fortune in the exact same degree as the M.C.] and so Pluto is conjunct, by allowable orb of influence, with my M.C.... My chart axis is a crucifix with the THREE MOST BASIC AND MOST MAJOR CONTRIBUTORS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO ONES BEING, THE SUN, THE MOON AND THE ASCENDANT...ALONG WITH PLUTO AT THE CROWN OF THE CRUCIFIX, THE PLANET OF DEATH AND TRANSFORMATION all TOGETHER THE ESSENTIAL GIST OF PROBABLY OVER 90%OF WHAT I AM, OF WHAT EVERYONE IS, MADE OF AND CREATED TO BE AND IN A PROCESS OF CRUCIFIXION. The Ego, the Emotional being [is that the Id, I forget?] and the Asc. all being compelled to oblige to transformation to a higher state,a more spiritual state of being and the Planet of Transformation, Pluto, at the top of the crucifix in a degree of Leo, the 21st, that is depicting a premature state of transformation [Rudhyar put it as "the premature expansion of consciousness..." same difference, more or less...just one take on it...a more generally adaptable interpretation. The degree for my M.C., the "HOW" spiritually, the "WHY" as to the mundane affairs, that of a camel crossing the desert, by it self... no one leads me, i have no allegiance to any dogma or philosophy of being...find my own way...[listen to the "inner voice" to guide...and I was raised as a Quaker... that's their basic philosophy, their basic tenet... my yogi practices directed me to become a "sisya of the bij", i.e. "OM", the Word of God is my only archetype, avatar, satguru, savior... more of that "solo, self found, self found path to God, thing... my Desc., the "Where-to" of my chart is symbolized by an empty carpetbag hanging in the open air... no baggage, no possessions...a "Sunnyasi" thing...
That 25th degree of Leo, my M.C.and Part of Fortune is in? that just so happens to be the location of the Hermetic Lot of Eros derived from my Yeshu'a/Jesus natal chart...it symbolizes the type of people He wanted nearest him for his entourage, his posse, his fellow travelers. The camel carries only its "hump" for survival...again, no baggage, no extraneous possessions...one that can "even in the desert [find] a path to God" ...just as He told that fellow, a rich man, how to achieve salvation..."give away all your earthly goods and come along with me"... and I'm told that I was one of the disciples... the 13th one, in fact...don't remember any of it... not even any visions...but I rarely have visions from past lives... a few over the years, but not many and non from that alleged lifetime... yet, I've been given numerous signs so as to believe that... and I didn't go looking for them, either...
Edgar Cayce was a channel, few people know that, yet it is in a reading He gave for the executive committee of the A.R.E. in the early 1930's... only "the Messengers from Most High that serve the Throne of Grace" spoke through him...i.e. it would be either the angelic or one of the Ascended Masters from the Great White Lodge...one never knew whom, or what, was speaking through Him, but when it was the angelic it was always made rather clear that it was...but it was frowned upon to ask... as they spoke as ONE, except some have certain areas of "expertise", so to speak. On two occasions it was Yeshu'a/Jesus himself...at least the two He made it known it was Him. He chastised the daylight out of self proclaimed "Christians' living on earth at the time. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "you all are waiting for a 'Second Coming'?, I've got news for you all, I've been back a number of times and I don't like what I've seen and heard from you all." He basically told everyone that it's up to themselves to reach salvation, that it's not His job to do it for them...he's just a guide, a teacher, an exemplar, so to speak. ...at least that's what I got from what he said but I'll read it all over again just to be absolutely sure, but I think I put it down here correct One of the Masters, it may have been Yeshu'a/Jesus...they spoke as one anyways so it doesn't really matter, that it makes not a whit of difference after you die as to what religion you belonged to or if you belonged to one at all... what matters is how you treated your fellow human beings...and the critters...How you lived you life in accordance with the golden rule... that's all you will be judged upon. The Pope and the pauper, on an equal basis, on the other side.
Dig it.]

The "rainbow" [which, incidentally, is the Sabian symbol for the 26th degree of Leo, and which happens to be the placement for the Part of Love that I derived from the natal chart I believe to be, and contend is, of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth. It is also the Part of Love derived from the natal chart of Khris Toyra, aka "Miss X", as I identified Her as in my book, the woman from whom I discovered and learned about the phenomenal power of having Pluto conjunct the Asc. and whom, in a previous incarnation, was allegedly one of the two "nannies" that the Prince of Peace had as a babe {...and She was quite the "babe" herself, in her younger days.} I was recently given Her permission to allow Her true identity to be known, may God Bless her.] ...anyways...back to that "Rainbow" ...as Dane put it in his interpretation/presentation of the Sabian Symbol for the 26th degree of Leo...
[ibid.]

"LEO 26°: AFTER THE HEAVY STORM, A RAINBOW.

KEYNOTE: Linking above and below, the Covenant with one's divine nature, promise of immortality.
In the Bible the rainbow is the sign of the Covenant established by God with Noah (the cyclic 'Seed man') guaranteeing that no longer shall the destructive power of Spirit (the Shiva aspect of the Divine) be used to destroy life on earth. As we come to the third level of the scene of 'Release', we find the man who has been able to weather the cathartic storm face-to-face with his divine Archetype; because he has been victorious, a link has been established with his divine Soul-being. Both the human and the divine partners should remain thus linked. H. P. Blavatsky's last words are said to have been: 'Keep the Link unbroken' — the Link she forged With the Trans-Himalayan Brotherhood that had sent her into the darkness of nineteenth-century materialism for this purpose.

At the first stage of this thirtieth sequence, the symbol of the rainbow shows us the need to maintain a state of open communication between the Sky and the Earth within our total being — not for the sake of finding an ever-elusive 'pot of gold' at the end of the rainbow, for this end is never to be reached, but in order to face the totality of our individual selfhood as it is projected in the many-hued dome of our sky-flung consciousness. After every successfully met crisis, the REVELATION OF WORTH comes to us, and with it comes the promise of success, if only we do our part."

The "Rainbow" is the covenant between God and all mankind. Gods' promise to never again flood the earth to rid it of evil and in attempt to correct humankinds' erring ways... [but that don't mean God might not use some other means... at least that's my take on it and a lot of other people share that belief.]

It is the chosen symbol for the Noahide movement...that group of people that believe there are commandments for all of humankind that differ from those given to the Hebrews and delivered by Moses.

There are some that believe the 20 or 30 thousand guillotines the U.S. gov't has and is keeping in some hidden location in the State of Washington [where they were last observed in transport back in the early 1990's sometime] ...ordered and created during either president Reagan or George H.W. Bush's term and, allegedly, are intended to be used by "the powers that will be", when... and if... that "New World Order ever does get rolling, for the purpose of eliminating from the general population all that do not adhere to, or have violated, the Noahidic commandments.

Sound outrageously delusional and the product of extreme paranoia?
It certainly does to me... yet, I have reputable, and dependable confirmation, from a source that is of the utmost integrity and honesty, that they do indeed exist.

Whether they are indeed intended to enforce the Noahidic commandments is another question no one I know of can answer... or even wants to take a guess at.

Greetings.
After further study of the event chart for the Uranus Pluto conjunction of October 9, 1965 I came upon the realization that the two planets had been conjunct the Sidereal adjusted location for the U.S.A.'s natal charts Part of War/Rage.

The Part of War/Rage at the time of the birth of the nation was at 14* Virgo 48' 51" yet by that October of 1965 [as of the 4th of that month, and that mid day] was at apprx. [an approximation that is within tenths of a second of a degree] by adjustment for the Sidereal precession of the equinoxes it was actively located at [the movement based on the present rate of precession given to be one degree every seventy one and a half years] figures to be at the rate of advance of 4.1958041 seconds of a degree per month, on the average, thus it should be reasoned that the natal Part of War/Rage for the U.S.A. was at 17* Virgo 27' 32" on that October 9th of 1965. Uranus and Pluto being at 17* Virgo 09' 57" were both very much conjunct with the Part in question.

How does one interpret this event then?
If it were Pluto alone that would have amounted to grave trouble for the nation. It was bad enough the nation was involved in a political gambit for the sake of capitalism in Vietnam and had it been Pluto alone I would deduce that it would have led to a great escalation in the conflict initiated by this nation with the aim of eradication of our perceived foes.
Mars conjunct the same Part is what I have to assume is what leads to the call for war or aggressive action, at the least acts born out of rage. Pluto conjunct the same Part I can only assume is the use of war for destruction and death.

But, in this instance Uranus was involved equally and Uranus is known as "The Great Awakener". What I conclude it as to having an effect of is one of an awakening to the reality of what war is and what it does, what it results in...to the fullest, unabridged, uncensored, un-redacted, reality of the horrors and the karmic obligation for instigating it... and yet it still produced a rage, a "rage against the machine of war" that did come to birth for the greater mass of our society at that time and continued to grow until it became a mass consciousness and we, the people, the greater number of us, anyways, took to action, took to the streets, the campuses, the media, to Washington D.C., in protest. It was more than just about war though. Uranus, that "Great Awakener" conjunction Pluto, the planet of dissolution and reformation, fueled with their combined energies many societal protest against a number of injustices and for noble causes. Civil Rights, Womens' rights, Environmental concerns, working folks' rights and calls for change in the very basic structure our society had been propped up and was dependent on, i.e Capitalism/Consumerism. Protest against the "might makes right", chauvinistic, gluttonous, belligerent society we had let ourselves be led into becoming.

The subsequent exact conjunction of the two planets the following April 4th, in 1966, in retrograde, occurred, in Philadelphia, at 3:50:53 p.m. E.S.T. and the I.C. of that event chart, the "HOW" of the event chart, was at 13* Sagittarius 41' 21" and it was within a one degree orb of conjunction with the Sidereal precession adjusted U.S.A. natal charts' Part of Radical Change [an Astrological Part derived from the formula Asc. + Pluto - Uranus ....!!!!] which at the time of birth of the nation was at 10* Sag. 10' 43", adjusted to 12* Sag. 49' 33"... Uranus and Plutos' exact point of conjunction was then at 16* Virgo 27' 47" and the Sidereal precession adjusted Part of War/Rage at 17* Virgo 28' 01"... just slightly beyond the one degree orb for a conjunction I believe, and adhere to, as being of effect ...and separating, as they were both retrograde at that time.

Something I failed to observe and make note of in my initial post is that the North Node of the Moon on October 9, 1965 being at 05* Gemini 43' 05" was conjunct the Sidereal precession adjusted Hermetic Lot of Nemesis, aka the Part of Sudden Advancement which at the time of the birth of the United States was derived from its natal chart to have been at 02* Gemini 23' 11". When the necessary 28 38' 11" is added to the position to adjust for the precession that had occurred since the nations birth one hundred ninety years, three months and five days previous the aforementioned Lot/Part was at 05* Gemini 01' 52". Though the point of activation changes with the passing of time I am yet steadfast in the belief that the Sabian Symbol for any Astrological Part remains the same as it was at birth ...as I have repeatedly demonstrated over the last eleven years in this forum, Astrological Parts are symbolically active, at least they are for mundane charts and those of the "World Servers"... it remains to be proven if they work that way for everyone.

That Sabian Symbol for the natal position of the U.S.A.'s Hermetic Lot of Nemesis, aka Part of Sudden Advancement in the 3rd degree of Gemini is interpreted and presented, by the late Dane Rudhyar, to be as... [ibid.]

"GEMINI 3°: THE GARDEN OF THE TUILERIES IN PARIS.

KEYNOTE: The formalization of collective ideals through the application of reason and order to newly discovered aspects of nature.

The gardens of the Tuileries and Versailles are typical representations of the classical spirit and its need for order and symmetry. The reign of the French king, Louis XIV, followed the Renaissance, which was filled with the excitement of a new spirit of discovery and a period of internal troubles. A reaction had to come to consolidate the gains made by the collective mind of European man. Such a consolidation usually leads to another extreme, i.e. formalism and often the narrow intellectual crystallization of dualistic concepts.

At this third stage of the thirteenth five-fold sequence of cyclic phases we see the contents of the first and second stages brought to the state of clear and lucid, but also formalized, conceptualization. The heavenly gift-bearing Santa Claus has become the paternalistic autocrat, king by 'divine right'. The warm family circle celebrating the birth of the Deliverer from wintry darkness is now the Court of the king ruled by rigid rituals. There is clarity, but there is also ego-centralization and the worship of FORMALISM."

I'll get back to more analysis of the chart for the second of the three conjunctions of Uranus and Pluto, in retrograde [both] in the days ahead. Summer is ending and all too soon, it seems. The baseball season is winding down...coming to the final effort by all the teams still in contention to make the playoffs and get to the Fall Classic, "The World Series", and the professional football season began this past weekend, I got to watch my favorite team, the Oakland Raiders win an opener for a change...and soundly too... beating, what has certainly seemed to be their "nemesis" for years, i.e. the Denver Broncos. [I've got a whole week yet to gloat over that... you betcha.] Much to do to prepare for the rapidly approaching Fall and then Winter and rumor is it is going to be a rather severe Winter, at least in these parts.

So, there is much to do on my list... a lot on my plate so to speak...and this thread being about the past...well, it isn't at the top of that list of mine but I promise to get back to it when I can ...and I've yet another, the third conjunction, to cover ...and have barely gotten into the second.
The past is... past... and has been laid to rest, the future is always demanding...
Ebbing and Flowing, as a friend of mine remarked to me at the beginning of this past Spring... Ebbing and Flowing.... and right now there is a lot flowing to be concerned about.

Till next time, keep on believing in a better future... and help make it happen.
Thank you, ptv

Late edit... I forgot to do earlier...
Uranus and Pluto, both retrograde at the time, on April 4, 1966 cast for the United States

The Sabian Symbols, at least the precepts they embody, have existed since the beginning of creation. The Symbolism is adjusted for cultural differences. ..as what would Santa Claus, or a 1920's "Flapper" mean to a person born and living in the jungles of New Guinea... or to someone that lived five thousand years ago in ancient Egypt or Mesopotamia?

The precepts they represent, however, are unchangeable, constant, they will be ever in effect until the end of time.

Rudhyar was the one chosen for the role...Divinely chosen and divinely guided...whether anyone wants to believe that or not.

He along with Edgar Cayce, Rudolf Steiner, and so many "World Servers" that are alive now and were of the past, have all been assisted and guided by "the Messengers from Most High" , i.e. those that directly serve the Throne of Grace itself... the Angels of Light and loyal to our Creator and those known as being members of the "White Lodge", aka "The Great White Brotherhood", aka "the Ascended Masters", of whom the legendary Saint Germain is one and is sometimes called upon to be of guidence and assistance.

I have written many a time that I lack in verbal skills and reading comprehension... "lack" is a relative word in this instance as I was tested and found to be but slightly ahead of the norm in my school days, my math, spatial reason, and mechanical reason abilities were tested and all found to be in the 98th percentile... verbal and reading in the 55th percentile.

I speak a great deal of Sanskrit and actually understand it better than I do the English language...perhaps it is a result of having had so many of my past lives in India... as my most previous incarnation was also in that land...

But what I do understand the most easily and have the least bit of trouble comprehending is "symbolism"...

Born to do it... some say.

david starling said:

What was Rudhyar's sabian symbol? Also, can you have more than one, say for the Moon's degree, or is it Sun only?

Click to expand...

The Sabian symbols were created specifically for use at the Ascendant.

greybeard said:

The Sabian symbols were created specifically for use at the Ascendant.

Click to expand...

No they weren't. They are 360 phases in a cycle of transformation...any cycle of transformation found in nature., given in symbolism appropriate to Western [Occidental] culture.
That cycle of transformation that allows them to be appropriately applied to Astrology begins with the Spring Equinox. For those of us born in the Northern Hemisphere that begins at the first degree of Aries.
For those of you born in the Southern, I'm not sure what to advise you to do. I've not dealt with that many charts of people born in the Southern Hemisphere. You might try applying them in just the same way. They are not bound to the Constellations or the stars...

You might even try beginning at Virgo 30 degrees and working through them in the opposite direction. when You study them long enough, as I have...and Rudhyar implied it many a time in his writings...to begin at the first degree of Aries and complete the cycle at Pisces 30 degrees leads one into a transformation immersed in the material world...into "Maya". to begin at Virgo 30 degrees and end at the first degree of Libra, that is to say, working through them in the opposite direction... in the direction the Moons Nodes travel... they lead one into liberation from the physical realm.... to spiritual salvation. That is the cycle of Spiritual transformation, Spiritual evolution.

there are those that will be ever constantly trying to dissuade you from learning the means to Spiritual salvation, from Spiritual evolution. They will proclaim someone else set of symbols to be the only "real deal", they will proclaim someone else interpretation of the Sabian Symbols, other than Rudhyar's, to be the only source to consult... my advice is to ignore them.

I choose to write on this particular topic of the Uranus Pluto conjunctions in the 1960's because they are so clearly shown to be influential as to the transformation Western society went through during that time and is still undergoing to this very day. The conjunctions of Uranus and Pluto is also a cycle that lasts for about 115 years... It's a cycle of "AWAKENING and DOING AWAY WITH WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AWAY WITH" Awakening and Transformation, exactly what the two planets, Uranus and Pluto are all about.

A child can see it... as to how clearly and undeniably the Sabian Symbols activated in these charts, I'm presenting, led to exactly what Western society underwent and responded to. You could spend the rest of your lives trying to substitute other Sabian Symbols from other degrees of the Zodiac or symbols from some other, so called, source and you won't find them to be in any way relevant to the events and spirit of the times.

They are those that will do anything and everything they can possibly try to get away with to dissuade you ... there are those that are in allegiance to thwart mankind from Spiritual evolution. They come with college degrees, certificates of study, badges of , so called authority, that son't mean a thing as to what they are using them for.

Some spend every waking day proclaiming just one falsehood about true astrology in this effort to thwart humankind from Spiritual evolution and salvation... They will even spend every day just proclaiming all astrology is fakery... why? When they could be going after political corruption, human degradation, avarice and greed...when they could be going after sadists, and they could be going after would be slave masters, or pedophiles? None of that is fakery...THAT'S REAL...!!!...AND THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE STOPPED AND NEEDS ALL THE VOLUNTEERS IT CAN PRESENTLY GET... SO WHY DO THEY GO AFTER ASTROLOGY?

BECAUSE THE UNDERSTANDING OF TRUE ASTROLOGY WILL EVENTUALLY PUT AN END TO ALL THAT TOO, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE PROCESS OF TRANSFORMATION OF SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION INEVITABLY LEADS TO... WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE THAT SPENT SO MUCH TIME, PRECIOUS TIME, DENOUNCING A THREAD SUCH AS THIS... JUST AN OBSERVATION ON WHAT ASTROLOGICALLY COMPELLED THE CHANGE OF SOCIETY THAT BEGAN OVER 50 YEARS AGO... WHY? WHEN MOST OF THE PEOPLE ALIVE IN THE WORLD TODAY WEREN'T EVEN BORN YET, THE MAJORITY OF WHICH WILL MOST LIKELY FIND NO INTEREST IN THIS SUBJECT TO BEGIN WITH?
IF SOMEONE WERE TO STAT A THREAD INSISTING THAT THE SKY IS YELLOW I MIGHT MAKE ONE POST IN REPLY INFORMING THEM OTHERWISE...THAT THEY ARE OUTNUMBERED BY ABOUT 7 BILLION PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE, THAT KNOW, OTHERWISE...AND I WOULD MOVE ON...
SO, WHY ARE THESE NAY SAYERS TO TRUE ASTROLOGICAL KNOWLEDGE SO PERSISTENT...?

THINK ABOUT IT.


SHUN THE NON BELIEVERS...




Yeah, my bad....

I forgot to include a posting of the image of the chart cast for the second of the three Uranus Pluto conjunctions in post #12, above.
I've done so now.
Thank you for your interest,
ptv

passiflora said:

piercethevale, I wouldn’t disagree that you can find some utility from interpreting Sabian symbols of planetary locations. The symbol just feels somehow purer at the Ascendant because it’s not complicated by a planet’s own energy there.

Click to expand...

Understandable. It's the most easily seen for many. The chart axis is a template of a cycle The Asc. "WHO", the Desc., "WHERE-TO" and to get from one to the other one must go in one direction or the other and the point in-between at the M.C., if you follow the Zodiacal degrees in the same direction as travel the Moons' Nodes, you come to the "HOW" ...after that you arrive at the Desc., the "WHERE-TO". After that you come to the remaining axis point, the I.C. for the answer as "WHY"... that is to say "WHY" the needed transformation and "WHY" it had to be done in the manner the M. C., the "HOW", is given in symbolic form via the Sabian Symbol found for that Signs' degree.
That is the cycle of Spiritual evolution, out of Maya...for the mundane process follow the Zodiacal degrees in the "traditional" manner, that is from the Asc. to the I.C. as the I.C. then becomes the "HOW"

Member Phoenix Venus concluded and convinced me some years ago that we should pursue both cycles... so as to be successful in both realms...but keep in mind as to which is which and why one is more needed to be given emphasis.... one can more easily deal with Maya when one is firmly and resolutely focused on the spiritual necessities, offerings, and personal commitment, to the spiritual cycle we have each been offered as a life path.

It is not a complex or elaborate process of design...though it is of Divine design. As I oft say, the Universe seeks the simplest solution, the simplest means to an end as is possible... taking all factors into consideration.
The only way it could be any simpler for us human beings is if God just snapped Gods' fingers and willed it so and we didn't have to be born and reborn...just from here to there, in the wink of an eye...or snap of fingers. But, we are being given a lesson and one that has to be experienced to be learned and this is the means God saw fittest fo accomplish this.

If you construct a chart axis from Aquarius 01* to Leo 01* and then from Taurus 01* to Scorpio 01* you have a natal chart axis for the birth of all creation. Aquarius being the Asc., The "WHO", Leo the "WHERE-TO", Taurus the "HOW", and Scorpio the "WHY"...all in the Sabian Symbols for the first degrees of each of those Signs. The preceding degree for each position symbolically illustrates the "seed" from the previous creation from which this one sprang forth.

I wrote a thread on this some years ago. It's somewhere in the forum.

If anyone is interested in that I'll look for it and post a link.

The sixties continued a spirit of rebellion that started as a brushfire in the fifties. An intellectual and cultural movement was gaining momentum and was squelched by the Tate-LaBianca murders. One need only review the exposés of the brilliant Mae Brussell to appreciate these revelations.

Sadly, humanity is rapidly devolving, and this is due to formidable nefarious actors. Today's adult would be hard pressed to attempt a 1910 second grade exam. Astute powers of observation aren't necessary to see what has happened over the last several generations.

Tragically, the public now lacks the intelligence to demand the halt of geoengineering and the protracted extinction event of Fukushima. We are in far too deep to accept pollyanna prognostications.

Elementary school children are so damaged, they are being promoted to the next grade with nothing but failures to account for.
How we wish control of our country had been wrested from the hands of those who would subjugate us so.

Personally, I've been dabbling with the symbols for about 40 years. Anyone can manipulate anything to arrive at a desired conclusion.

[Deleted response to attacking post. - Moderator]

All,

Stick to astrology, and no personal attacks! I just deleted several posts that were attacking or non-astrological or both.

Keep it about the issue, NOT the person. "You" statements are attacks. Leave them out.

Keeping it civil,
Osamenor

jac said:

The sixties continued a spirit of rebellion that started as a brushfire in the fifties. An intellectual and cultural movement was gaining momentum and was squelched by the Tate-LaBianca murders. One need only review the exposés of the brilliant Mae Brussell to appreciate these revelations.

Sadly, humanity is rapidly devolving, and this is due to formidable nefarious actors. Today's adult would be hard pressed to attempt a 1910 second grade exam. Astute powers of observation aren't necessary to see what has happened over the last several generations.

Tragically, the public now lacks the intelligence to demand the halt of geoengineering and the protracted extinction event of Fukushima. We are in far too deep to accept pollyanna prognostications.

Elementary school children are so damaged, they are being promoted to the next grade with nothing but failures to account for.
How we wish control of our country had been wrested from the hands of those who would subjugate us so.

Personally, I've been dabbling with the symbols for about 40 years. Anyone can manipulate anything to arrive at a desired conclusion.

[Deleted response to attacking post. - Moderator]

Click to expand...

I haven't heard Mae Brussels name in years... I would have assumed that she was lng dead by now.

The Tate Bianca murders were hardly any sort of event that extinguished the counter cultural revolution that was going on at the time...the one that was so identified with the long hair youth of its day, i.e. "the Hippies". More of a bad reflection on Hollywood in particular and Los Angeles in general. I was 16 years old at the time and I lived about 7 mile Northeast, as the crow flies, of where the murders took place. My father worked about a mile South of the location and under my fathers employ was the father of the chief of police of Beverly Hills.
My father was a personal friend of the chief of police at the time and oft heard quite a bit more about crimes that had happened in the area than the media ever reported or likely even knew.
My family wasn't wealthy, we lived in Tujunga and my father was the foreman of the paint crew at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel and previously He had the same position at the Beverly Hills Hotel but went with Hernando Courtright when Hernando sold the one and bought the other ...at Hernando's request and invitation. My father worked in that position for the two establishments a total of 22 year. The father of the chief of police was in his 70's and had been a painter all his life but still need to work either for economic concerns or because it was what He wanted to do and as I recall having lost his wife not long before that He "needed" something to stay active and interested in life and the chief of police had asked my father 'to do him a favor"... My father had been a painting contractor in the Hollywood - Beverly Hills area since 1949, He started painting, as an occupation, in 1937 when the Navy gave him that rank and position.
When you work around and for people of wealth and that have peccadillo ...or even skeletons in their closet... you keep your mouth shut about anything you see or hear, if you want to keep employed in that area ...and sometimes if you even just want to stay alive.

For an example, my father knew from the day it happened that George Reeves, the actor that portrayed Superman in the television series didn't commit suicide as the media reported and I believe is still the "official story", although a movie made that included the subject that wa made sometime ago beck in the 90's, I think, did portray more or less what actually happened, How does one shoot themselves in the head twice... unless you truly are some sort of Superman?

Charlie Manson had hopped to become an actor, he had aspirations of becoming a celebrity. Dennis Wilson, of the Beach Boys, met him and even introduced him to the very crowd, as of to which belonged the people that were murdered not long afterward.

I consider the concert at Altamont in '69 to have been far more of a "squelch" upon the "movement", but even that caused but a relatively small portion of those that were a part of that movement to reconsider their ways and beliefs and it reduced "from the ranks" the posers and those of little faith in the counterculture movement. The protests against the war in Vietnam continued to and the number protesting increased. When I was in high school hair that went past the collar of your shirt would get one suspended from school and girls were not allowed to wear jeans, slacks, shorts or even culottes... as the school board had decided that all of hose were to risque for an academic institution and were sexually provocative.... but mini shirts were OK...to a certain extent over the knee... go figure.

Thus when the restrictions on manner of appearance for public schools had come to and end or were ending suddenly every other boy in school had hair over the collar, and the rag industry caught on to the fact that it was now cool to be hip and quite profitable too if you could anticipate what the trend would do next... the band, Tower of Power, wrote a song that came out in 1971 called, "What Is Hip", that summed it all up rather succinctly as to what the movement had become... more media hype and the latest phase of social upmanship from the genuine spontaneous result of a greater awakening to what needed to change in our society.

During the Summer of Love in 1967 the "Flower Children" and the "Freaks" in San Francisco held what they billed as the "Death f the Hippy", as they didn't call themselves "Hippies", that was what the media had coined a term and given them. As k anyone of them that was there in 1967, in San Francisco...and I do know a great number of them, ["Great", being more than a hundred or so] they called themselves "Flower Children" and some called themselves "Freaks", The first time the word 'Hippy" was used was in the 1950's and I seem to recall it was San Franciscan newspaper columnist, Herb Caen, that either the word originated from or from whom it became such a popular appellation.

That "Death fo the Hippie" thing was a mock funeral procession and burial ...in Golden Gate Park, I think it was... and they let the world be known that they did not like the term that had been broadly applied to all of them and they were letting all know that it was the media that coined that appellation and that being from the media you could dang sure well bet on it that the media would try to capitalize on it in someway, somehow, and they were denouncing it and wanted the world to know that it was just that sort of thing they wanted to bring to an end. That is which, the media telling us who we are, whom to be as like, what to think, what to believe, what to believe in, what to do for a living, how to live, how to dress, It's what a society so en rooted into capitalism was needed to be subjected to, brain washed in a sense, or programmed might be the better term for it, in order for capitalists to keep on achieving profits [Consumerism is what type of economic system we truly have...a bit different from the textbook description of "Capitalism". I have also found that aa number of Economic experts, political scientists, and the like, have the theory that Capitalism can only survive if there is a war constantly going on somewhere in the world. The loser loses all, to the winners go the spoils and to the bankers go everything else. Constant war with a losing country, Never ending war, somewhere on the earth for as soon as one ends another must be ignited and ever producing yet another nation that then needs rebuilding and loans. If we didn't have "consumerism" then we wouldn't have factories operating constantly and thus there would be no 40 hour work week as all other bsuiness concerns everywhere are dependent on the manufacturing sector of business for their own livlyhoods... and if we didn't have jobs 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year [not accounting for any vacation time one might be "privileged to"] then how could we pay or rents, our mortgages, how could we pay those taxes...of which over 50% goes to the military...how?

EXACTLY
...

Usury is a SIN... ain't nothing in the Bible telling you that you have to pay rent or work a forty hour week producing goods for consumers. The charging of rent, interest on loans, gambling, insurance, is all forms of usury. In the Bible it is written the God has given us the harvest of the fields, the bounty of the sea, from which to feed us, the cool waters from which to quench our thirst, and our most ancient grandmother, Mother Earth, upon which to lay down upon when we are weary. The CEO of Nestles' Corporation which presently owns the water rights to just about all of the natural springs in California, He said a couple of years ago that "there is no human right to water". In the days when Spanish law was the law of California you had the right to cross into someone elses' land they owned and drink from any natural water source, you could water your livestock too, if needed. English law doesn't allow that. . The wealthy were in , and still are in, a game they created among themselves called [the title I have given it as] "he who dies with the most money wins" and they couldn't give a s*** what you might think about them or what they do, what they might find to be marketable, and profitable, to sell to the lower social economic people in order to achieve it. But above all else Communism had to be stopped.. so they got it to be recognized as atheistic, God denouncing, everyone will live as drones impoverished forever kind of belief spread among Western cultures when in reality, the Soviet Union only prohibited organized religion form influencing its society... the Vatican, and every other church authority in the world of any notably sized membership was involved in politics, political control and a great many were "fleecing their brethren" for their own wealth and comfort.

That arms race the Us had going with the Soviet Union? That was devised so as to keep the Soviet Union pouring most all of their GNP into military development and armament so as to keep their cultural, their societal programs from ever succeeding. The Star Wars thing of the
Reagan era was the coup de grace designed to be the final death blow as the cost of research and development was sky high...and the U.S.A. never had any of the success it claimed to have... it was all a ruse to keep the Soviets pouring all of their own money into a bottomless pit... a "sting" operation.
The head of the U.S.M.C. back in the 1930's realized it. Smedley butler, the "Fighting Quaker" whom realized that all of the military actions he had been in since He joined the corp in the 1890's was for capitalist interests.. that our nations military had become nothing more than a "mobster muscle" for the kingpins of capitalist business concerns. He had been awarded two Congressional Medals of Honor for his actions during two military engagements, one during the Spanish-American war and another during the Banana Revolt in Central American, [About those two medals. Smedley later declared that He didn't do anything to deserve them and that henceforth He would no longer acknowledge them or wear them for which He was told by "the powers that be" that He had better wear them and would from that day forward wear them incessantly and that if He didn't he would face a court martial and be imprisoned]...which was our military being sent their to quash the populace of those countries that worked for the powerful American company, The United Fruit Company, from continuing to strike for better pay and working conditions. Smedly Butler wrote about this period of time in American history as "I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during this period, I spent most of my time as a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers."

As so many American companies have been bought and sold to foreign interests these last 20 to 30 years ..Budweiser Brewing owned by a company based in the Netherlands and they in turn owned by a Brazilian Holding Company, Coors Brewing owned by the Canadians, Chrysler owned by the Italians, a number of Hollywood film companies now owned by the Japanese, the Chinese now owning so much of California farmland... how would we like it if we went on strike if we worked for one of those foreign owned, American based, companies or worked as a farm hand at one of those California farms and the Chinese sent troops in, or the Dutch or the Brazilians? [and now you might have an idea of why there actually are some many "false flag" mass shootings, in America these last 15 or so years... those economic interests that have bought American businesses and those that are being wooed as potential investors, are concerned about the fact that so many Americans own guns and that makes for an uncertainty whether we can be "controlled" and keep their investments profitable....

The Wealthy 2% of the United States don't give a hoot about their fellow Americans, they have no sense of loyalty to the nation, to the constitution, as to whether you lived her a week or have family ancestors that fought and died in every war from the beginning of this nation. They don't care about any of the beliefs they died for or any belief you might have too, politically, spiritually, or culturally...they belong to the same club the wealthy 2% of the rest of the world all do... which I like to call the,the "New World Order Social Club/Fraternity." which has a requirement of 1 Billion in net worth just to be considered for an application. I figure that it really takes tens of Billions in U.S. $ to actually make the cut and possibly in the $ Trillions $ to get a key to the "Elitist Facilities"They want to see you lose all cultural identity so as to lose any belief that you might have fellow sympathies, they want to see you disarmed, they want to see you made politically impotent. Smedley Butler wrote a book in the 1930's titled "War Is A Racket" stating just that.

The movement has never been "squelched" that is extinguished altogether, it never has even been close to it. It did become less of media attention but what it did was introduce so much that's now considered to be mainstream, or alternatively acceptable, in Western/Occidental, societies. Environmental concerns are still of great interest to many and even more so that there were in the 1960's ...after all the world has twice the population presently than it did in the 1960's... mainstream religious institutions, especially the Vatican, has lost a lot of both societal and political influence..[in fact, the present Pope will be the last, I am told by those that know what the outcome of the future to hold for that Old World institution that has caused such harm, spread so many lies and false and half truths, the last 2000 years.]
It was 9/11, i.e. September 11th, yesterday and the mainstream media still was promoting beliefs, slogans such as "Never Forget", waving the "Red White and Blue" and making any one that questions what happened that day that the gov't said did happen, or why we invaded Iraq when the alleged hi-jackers were Saudis, or why Osama Bin Laden's body was interred at Sea and no DNA taken, nothing for the general public to see to allay any suspicion that wasn't Osama that was killed {Obama said that the body had to be buried at sea so as to give respect to Islamic beliefs...most interesting, I thought, when He never did demonstrate any respect towards any Christian belief...even though He insists still to this day that He is a Christian himself... OH, that's right...didn't He light the Nations Christmas tree a few times?

87% of this nations populace doesn't believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman or even the gunman at ll, as to who shot John F. Kennedy. ...bringing my father back into the subject here, there were no less than seven different calibers of guns that went off when Bobby Kennedy was killed... my father had briefly wrked as the painter foreman for the Ambassador Hotel where Bobby was murdered and the painters and carpenters that work for the same employer, for the maintenance of the same facilities will always become intimately associated to some degree. Its an inevitability...and my dad heard that there were bullet holes all over and all around the room that Bobby was shot in...that weren't there the day before... no less than seven different calibers of guns had gone off in that brief couple of moments... at least seven guns. So how many Americans believe the official gov't report as to what happened on 9/11? How many actually believe it was a jet airliner that breached a bunker hardened outer wall and another two inner walls of the Pentagon and then vaporized leaving only a piece of a wheel from one of the landing gears... that so tragically killed all the bookkeepers going over the books to provide the answer to the demands of Congress placed upon Secretary of Defense Rumsey as to what happened to all of the money when it was revealed that it only took the Dubya Bush regime seven or eight months to spend every last cent of the defense budget and had been given the explanation that it was spent here and there for this and that... like money from the change jar we keep in a cabinet in our home... money for "this and that" stuff..We were lower middle class when I grew up, we didn't have a jar full of change, just a coffee cup full. If the paperboy came to collect and mom and dad weren't home, "pay him form the change cup and put the receipt in the cup afterward"...otherwise you had got some explaining to do.
All the book keepers and all of their books, vaporized along with that airliner...what a tragic coincidence, huh?

Just about every form of physical and psychological rehabilitation and any institution involved with it pre-1960's has now been changed for the better, maybe not changed into the perfect cure but better, more humanistic, than it was. Racial barriers have greatly fallen since those days. Until 1968 I would have been given Jim Crow treatment and status in the State of Virginia because of my partial Powhatan ancestry, my 1/124th part Powhatan ancestry, due to the "One Drop" law instituted in that State during the "Eugenics" movement and popularity of the 1920's. I couldn't pass for being African American even if I could be given the appropriate skin colour..although I have always tanned rather quickly and have been told, more than a few times during my life, that I have "got some pretty good moves on the dance floor for a ..." ...well, you know?

It was because of the countercultures fascination with astrology that my brother took an interest into examining it and after an intensive two year study determined for himself, what worked and what doesn't, about traditional astrology and after reading a great deal of the writings of Carl Jung himself, decided that Dane Rudhyar was more than just just some other early 20th century, allegedly accomplished, astrologer that also wrote about the Sabian Symbols, because after reading Danes book on the symbols and utilizing himself during that two year period he determined that not only are the Sabian Symbols quite genuinely those that were utilized by that long lost ancient civilization tht Marc Edmond Jones had hoped t reascertain for the world, but also that Dane was preeminently qualified, and likely divinely guided, as to be the 'ONE" whom was to make the definitive judgement, and call, as to what they are and how to utilize them..even Marc Edmond Jones had failed to understand them as Marc had changed a few of them to satisfy what He believed they embodied before Elsie told Him as to what she visualized them as... after studying the set Marc had given him to supplement the home school astrology course He enrolled Dane in, Dane noticed that a number of them didn't fit in and sought ut and found Else Wheeler and then found that she not only remembered what she saw them as...she didn't need to, for she possessed all three hundred and sixty of the small cards upon which each one had a different degree of the Zodiac that Marc had shuffled continuously and drawn from, one by one, asking Elsie as to the nature of the degrees randomly...and upon each card was hand written by Marc the description she gave him...and Dane was correct, Marc had altered the very degrees that Dane suspected He had.
Born To Do It... wouldn't you have to say?


I do hope you are not insinuating that I am making "Pollyanna prognostications" . Far from it if you are.. I am saying that ultimately it will all change for the better but as to how it is going to be accomplished and when it will I am not making any "prognostications"... at least not at this time... I haven't studied the ephemeral activity forecast for the future as to any adequate enough of a degree to even give some sort of generality at this time.

Although, I have done a bit of study up to the 2030's at present.not thoroughly, but enough do see that the second half of the 2020's is going to be a tumultuous time for the world and the United States will likely be subjected to what just might may cause the 1960's too be remembered fondly as "Happy Days", sans Richie and the Fonz. [Or 'Hippy Daze"... HA ...that's a joke son....]

Dabbling with the symbols for about 40 years you say? You may have one of the first editions of Dane's book then...if so ...and as you said yoou only dabble with it, would you care to sell it? I would love to own one. If you meant you've been "dabbling" with anyone elses interpretation of them or some other set of degree symbols altogether, you did only "dabble" ...imho, of course...and that time was ill spent.
I have been intently studying them these last 35 years, that is to say from August 1984 to the present. If you had done the same then perhaps you would be writing in praise of the book Dane produced, or writing here in the forum in support and encouragement as to their us? But as you apparently haven't and aren't giving any indication of interest in any sort of endeavor to the promotion of the advancement of astrological practices with their use... I am now compelled to try to determine as to what degree of study the term "dabbling" amounts to.
From the sound of it I might say that I've dabbled in about a few hundred different subjects in the last 50 or more years, myself...and more than just "dabbled" in a good number of them.

Quote "Anyone can manipulate anything to arrive at a desired conclusion." Unquote

...and a thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters given an eternity in which to do so will eventually produce the entire works of William Shakespeare...or in about a half hour the "Big Book of Traditional Astrology"

Hippie Daze!

Hey ptv, remember Stephen Gaskin?