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  #1  
Unread 07-01-2019, 12:03 AM
xyclomatic xyclomatic is offline
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My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

It's been 2 years now since his death on May 27th, 2017.

Lately I've been studying his natal chart to see if I could find any clues as to why he did what he did to himself. From what I know, he suffered from depression on and off throughout his life. It's one of the battles that he has dealt with for so long. Poor guy. Wish I could have been there for him.

Unfortunately, I don't know his time of birth and therefore have no idea what houses his planets may fall in, but here's his natal chart if anyone's curious to investigate:
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  #2  
Unread 07-01-2019, 12:38 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

The Fixed t-square focused on Saturn draws my eye and the Moon cluster, of which Saturn is lord.

Saturn is within his own domicile of Aquarius...but in the Last Degree, only 25' from leaving his own dominions to enter the diaphanous world of Pisces, moving from stronger to weaker.

At the same time Saturn is troubled by his presence in the last degree of a sign. There is turbulence, instability,uncertainty.

Saturn receives strong adverse rays from two unfriendly planets, also inimical to each other; an unholy triumvirate.

The Fixed signs are deep and long-lasting, persistent and accumulating on themselves. They are ruminant, chewing things over and over. Fixed signs operate primarily on the internal, psychological level. They have little interest in external events in and of themselves, but rather internalize these events to see how they may fit in with the values, principles and ideals so important to them in their psychological healing. Fixed signs must fix themselves; internal struggle.

There is much more here. This is the critical configuration. And then the Moon, the unconscious levels of mind. The triple conjunction is potent, confusing, destabilizing. The Capricorn Moon is a cold dry Moon. Moon is mother.

If we take Moon as feelings, and Neptune as anaesthesia.... Or Neptune can also be seen as aversion to the cruel outer world, our reality, and deep compassion with an accompanying urge to escape.

Last edited by greybeard; 07-01-2019 at 12:55 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 07-01-2019, 09:16 AM
xyclomatic xyclomatic is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

He had so many positive aspects in his chart, though. I'm surprised that such a good chart could still lead to someone commiting suicide.

I tried looking up the transits on the day he took his own life, but it's hard to see what is truly happening without the houses in the chart.

The only major negative aspect I could see in his chart is the Sun opposite Pluto. I have this aspect in my own chart, too, but I have the square version of it. Apparently, hard Sun/Pluto aspects supposedly can make you "destructive". Perhaps... this aspect in part is the reason why he made such a rash decision?

Last edited by xyclomatic; 07-01-2019 at 09:21 AM.
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  #4  
Unread 07-01-2019, 10:19 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyclomatic View Post

It's been 2 years now since his death on May 27th, 2017.
Lately I've been studying his natal chart
to see if I could find any clues as to why he did what he did to himself.
From what I know, he suffered from depression
on and off throughout his life.
It's one of the battles that he has dealt with for so long.
Poor guy. Wish I could have been there for him.

Unfortunately,
I don't know his time of birth
and therefore have no idea what houses his planets may fall in, but
here's his natal chart if anyone's curious to investigate:
a reliable time of birth
from medical records or birth certificate is essential
simply because
without that there is no natal chart
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  #5  
Unread 07-01-2019, 10:23 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyclomatic View Post

He had so many positive aspects in his chart, though.
I'm surprised that such a good chart
could still lead to someone commiting suicide.
ours is an astrological learning forum
members are encouraged to learn by practice
and would be useful if you explain how the chart is a good chart
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #6  
Unread 07-01-2019, 10:27 AM
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyclomatic View Post

The only major negative aspect I could see in his chart
is the Sun opposite Pluto.
I have this aspect in my own chart, too, but I have the square version of it.
Apparently, hard Sun/Pluto aspects supposedly can make you "destructive".
Perhaps... this aspect in part is the reason why he made such a rash decision?
there is disagreement amongst astrologers on that topic
an interesting discussion
at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...ad.php?t=80531
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #7  
Unread 07-01-2019, 10:30 AM
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyclomatic View Post

I tried looking up the transits on the day he took his own life, but
it's hard to see what is truly happening
without the houses in the chart.
a time of birth is required in order to establish the angles
i.e.
ASCENDANT/DESCENDANT/MC/IC
without a time of birth, all is speculation
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #8  
Unread 07-01-2019, 12:13 PM
ellie04 ellie04 is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

I'm sorry for your loss.

Sun square Saturn/Chiron may have caused him to feel depressed and in pain, plus Sun/Saturn are in a t-square with Pluto. He may have felt like he was caught in a depressing situation with no way to change. Pluto brings obsessive tendency.
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  #9  
Unread 07-01-2019, 12:46 PM
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Moondancing Moondancing is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

What is his birthdate? You can also look in the ephemeris and see how the planets from his birthdate progressed to the date of his death. Might be revealing.

Moon Dance
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  #10  
Unread 07-01-2019, 06:04 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyclomatic View Post
He had so many positive aspects in his chart, though. I'm surprised that such a good chart could still lead to someone commiting suicide.

I tried looking up the transits on the day he took his own life, but it's hard to see what is truly happening without the houses in the chart.

The only major negative aspect I could see in his chart is the Sun opposite Pluto. I have this aspect in my own chart, too, but I have the square version of it. Apparently, hard Sun/Pluto aspects supposedly can make you "destructive". Perhaps... this aspect in part is the reason why he made such a rash decision?
I wonder what I pointed to those aspects for? I guess you didn't get a chance to read them.

You don't think Saturn-Pluto and Sun-Saturn have effect? Or the Moon complex?

You didn't take the Fixity into account. Etc. Don't quit your day job.

There are other things, but studying these two will tell the tale.

Last edited by greybeard; 07-01-2019 at 06:09 PM.
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  #11  
Unread 07-01-2019, 06:25 PM
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondancing View Post

What is his birthdate?
You can also look in the ephemeris and see how the planets from his birthdate
progressed to the date of his death.
Might be revealing.
Moon Dance

an Ephemeris does not provide ASCENDANT/DESCENDANT/MC/IC ANGLES
also the Moon travels approximately thirteen - fourteen degrees daily

Progressions begin with the official time of birth
if there is no official time of birth
then there are no reliable progressions
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #12  
Unread 07-01-2019, 06:34 PM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

I don't think any birth chart predisposes the native to suicide. What it would show is what would prompt the native to do it if they ever do.

If we knew his rising sign, we would know his chart ruler, and that might be a clue. Also, the AC is indicative of someone's outlook on the world. Plus, if there were any transits to any of his angles at that time, a progressed angle coming to a natal planet, and/or a progressed planet coming to a natal angle, that might suggest a trigger.

Without that information, what we have to go on is the planets. People have already mentioned the moon/Neptune/Uranus cluster in Capricorn and sun/Pluto opposition. None of that would've driven him to suicide all by itself, but Capricorn is a sign that tends to be overly responsible, take on burdens, and self isolate. Moon in Capricorn shows, often, a deeply internalized sense of responsibility, isolation, and/or "I have to do everything myself, I have no support." That cluster tightly trines his sun, too, so this isn't just his moon (emotions, security, unconscious patterns), it also applies to his sense of self.

Pluto in aspect to the sun or moon, either natally or by transit, can be shattering or revealing or both. It's the kind of aspect that can make everything seem pointless and absurd, no matter how seriously you take it. On the date of his death, Pluto was transiting his moon cluster, which made it trine his sun. So, he was getting that Pluto energy applied to his moon and double to his sun.

If he suffered any mental illness (besides depression), or used substances, I think that reflects Neptune/Uranus.

What was his method of suicide? (I'm wondering if it was something Neptunian or Uranian.)
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Unread 07-01-2019, 08:02 PM
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
an Ephemeris does not provide ASCENDANT/DESCENDANT/MC/IC ANGLES
also the Moon travels approximately thirteen - fourteen degrees daily

Progressions begin with the official time of birth
if there is no official time of birth
then there are no reliable progressions
Yes, I'm aware of those restrictions but still you can study Sun, Mercury, Mars and Saturn for aspects to natal chart without birth time. In Marilyn Monroe's progressed chart she had P. Sun square P. Mars, P. Venus conj N. Sun.

Transiting Mars was square P. Mars and T. Jupiter squared P. Venus/N. Sun conj. Also, T. Neptune inconj P. Venus/N. Sun conj.

The transits on the day his friend died T. Mars is in close opposition to T. Saturn. Mars/Saturn is a strong significator of suicide and it probably touched a very sensitive point in his chart but, we don't know what. My curiosity has me wondering if his progressed planets might tell part of the story.

Moon Dance
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  #14  
Unread 07-01-2019, 10:16 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondancing View Post
Yes, I'm aware of those restrictions but still you can study Sun, Mercury, Mars and Saturn for aspects to natal chart without birth time. In Marilyn Monroe's progressed chart she had P. Sun square P. Mars, P. Venus conj N. Sun.

Transiting Mars was square P. Mars and T. Jupiter squared P. Venus/N. Sun conj. Also, T. Neptune inconj P. Venus/N. Sun conj.

The transits on the day his friend died T. Mars is in close opposition to T. Saturn. Mars/Saturn is a strong significator of suicide and it probably touched a very sensitive point in his chart but, we don't know what. My curiosity has me wondering if his progressed planets might tell part of the story.

Moon Dance
Saturn, as I already pointed out, is the critical planet here. And Mars sets him off with a traditional death aspect.

Saturn is focal (point focus) in the Fixed cross. Characteristics of the Fixed signs play a very important role in this tragedy.
Saturn is Lord of the deeply troubling lunar conjunction.
Saturn is in the 30th degree of his own sign (troubled) and only 25' of arc from Pisces. He is leaving essential strength to enter essential weakness and by direction remains in Pisces for around 30 years. Saturn is key in this affair.

Last edited by greybeard; 07-01-2019 at 10:38 PM.
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Unread 07-01-2019, 11:19 PM
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Saturn, as I already pointed out, is the critical planet here. And Mars sets him off with a traditional death aspect.

Saturn is focal (point focus) in the Fixed cross. Characteristics of the Fixed signs play a very important role in this tragedy.
Saturn is Lord of the deeply troubling lunar conjunction.
Saturn is in the 30th degree of his own sign (troubled) and only 25' of arc from Pisces. He is leaving essential strength to enter essential weakness and by direction remains in Pisces for around 30 years. Saturn is key in this affair.
Thank you! I missed the T. Mars inconj. to N. Saturn. Too focused on the T. opposition. Thought the progressions might connect the dots you had brilliantly mapped out in your analysis. Really appreciate you pointing out my oversight!

Moon dance
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Unread 07-02-2019, 12:09 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Transit to transit (general conditions) plus transit to natal (personalizing)....
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Unread 07-02-2019, 02:29 AM
xyclomatic xyclomatic is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
I don't think any birth chart predisposes the native to suicide. What it would show is what would prompt the native to do it if they ever do.

If we knew his rising sign, we would know his chart ruler, and that might be a clue. Also, the AC is indicative of someone's outlook on the world. Plus, if there were any transits to any of his angles at that time, a progressed angle coming to a natal planet, and/or a progressed planet coming to a natal angle, that might suggest a trigger.

Without that information, what we have to go on is the planets. People have already mentioned the moon/Neptune/Uranus cluster in Capricorn and sun/Pluto opposition. None of that would've driven him to suicide all by itself, but Capricorn is a sign that tends to be overly responsible, take on burdens, and self isolate. Moon in Capricorn shows, often, a deeply internalized sense of responsibility, isolation, and/or "I have to do everything myself, I have no support." That cluster tightly trines his sun, too, so this isn't just his moon (emotions, security, unconscious patterns), it also applies to his sense of self.

Pluto in aspect to the sun or moon, either natally or by transit, can be shattering or revealing or both. It's the kind of aspect that can make everything seem pointless and absurd, no matter how seriously you take it. On the date of his death, Pluto was transiting his moon cluster, which made it trine his sun. So, he was getting that Pluto energy applied to his moon and double to his sun.

If he suffered any mental illness (besides depression), or used substances, I think that reflects Neptune/Uranus.

What was his method of suicide? (I'm wondering if it was something Neptunian or Uranian.)

Holy ****, that part resonated so much that it's eerie...

My cousin was known to take a lot of prescription meds which he likes to call them his "happy pills". Also, on a related note, I once talked to a psychic medium who told me that he took LOTS of hardcore drugs as well during his time. Therefore, not just prescription meds.... but also hardcore street drugs. The psychic was able to pick this up about him despite not given any details whatsoever.

Now, you see, I relate to this guy so much because my Moon is part of a T-square to that same Uranus/Neptune configuration. Like him, I was also known to take lots of prescription meds. Although I bet my cousin feels that energy more acutely only because he has the conjunction, compared to the square.

Both of us were born in the year 1993, and hence it's no surprise that we share similar planetary aspects.

Last edited by xyclomatic; 07-02-2019 at 02:31 AM.
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  #18  
Unread 07-02-2019, 03:24 AM
xyclomatic xyclomatic is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondancing View Post
What is his birthdate? You can also look in the ephemeris and see how the planets from his birthdate progressed to the date of his death. Might be revealing.

Moon Dance

I did a progression chart for him and found that his PROGRESSED MOON was in Scorpio at the time of his suicide, specifcally in the late degrees of Scorpio.

So perhaps that added on to the whole situation? As you know: Scorpio Moon = Intense Emotions, for better or worse.

On the contrary, had he not took his own life on that day, his progressed moon would've moved into Sagitattrius (a more light-hearted sign) within the next few weeks and subsequently his depression would have subsided. Things would have been a lot easier had he stuck it out longer... but he didn't.

Would definitely look deeper into his progressed chart tonight. I need to get to the bottom of this once n' for all.

Last edited by xyclomatic; 07-02-2019 at 03:26 AM.
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  #19  
Unread 07-02-2019, 03:33 AM
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conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist is offline
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Re: My cousin committed suicide... does his chart show those tendencies?

The thing about that is, the moon has the most variation in terms of its location on any one day. Depending on when he was born on his birthday, his Moon could have very well have entered Sagittarius by the time of his suicide. Kind of puts a different spin on the release of his negative emotional state, doesn't it?
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