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Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


View Poll Results: Which ascendant description matches you best?
that of the tropical sign 28 52.83%
that of the zodiacal constellation 13 24.53%
both tropical sign and zodiacal constellation 11 20.75%
neither sign nor zodiacal constellation 1 1.89%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Unread 11-14-2011, 04:43 PM
jamescondor jamescondor is offline
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

AspieTaurus- Im looking at your natal chart that you posted and Gemini,Capricorn, and Scorpio seem to have allot to action around it. Even though your sun is in Taurus it's not as strong as these three signs. You have three planets conjunct (stellium) in Capricorn in the 3rd house. Gemini rules the third house. Also a few sextiles involving Capricorn. Other people might contradict me and that's just one problem with astrology. Agreeing on calculating methods.


Last edited by jamescondor; 11-14-2011 at 04:55 PM.
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  #27  
Unread 11-14-2011, 04:56 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

All tropical for me. Tropical makes me fairly evenly balanced and strongly predominantly melancholy with some sanguine and hardly anything else.
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  #28  
Unread 11-22-2011, 09:11 PM
Valis Valis is offline
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Yeah I know what you mean Love2know. It's really tricky.
My husband has a lot of Leo and Cancer planets in tropical, but much more Cancer than Leo in sidereal and I would bet my pennies on him being a stereotypical LEO ;D...and I don't really even know wether to use western or eastern sidereal. ???
My chart is very hard because I have such a distributed chart if you take all the modern planets into account. If you do then perhaps the grand trine in fire could explain why I would be comfortable with the idea of being a rising sag, sun aries. I would say having mercury in pisces would feel very much like me but my tropical does have a very heavily aspected neptune.
It's been giving me a real headache for a long time...
I wish there was someone with many planets in lets say Aries that would switch to Pisces so it would be easier to compare...
I mean one system is based on division by constellations, the other seasonal... maybe they are both valid separate systems. I really don't know.
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  #29  
Unread 11-22-2011, 11:07 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

You raise a good point, it would be nice to hear from the Aries to Pisces person etc.. Hmm Anyone? Also I think there are many similarities between cancers and Geminis I have met but the cancers may seem a bit chilled out. I always mistake Aquarius women for Pisces lol I guess it's just me though.
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  #30  
Unread 11-22-2011, 11:21 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Personally I am not in a position to judge - Scorpio Tropical Ascendant but Libran Sidereal Ascendant. In both cases Venus and Pluto are in a conjunction in either Scorpio or Libra.

But my second point would be that I don't think many people are that well versed in the meaning of say Libra in Vedic / Lahiri astrology compared to its tropical Western interpretation. I think a lot of people here, when picking which zodiac fits them, are applying Western / Tropical zodiac interpretations of a sign onto their sidereal chart which may not be very helpful.

So I don't think a Libra tropical Asc and a Libra sidereal Asc are necessarily the same thing - would appreciate someone versed in both to let us know.

If they're not, can we really compare oranges to apples?
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  #31  
Unread 11-23-2011, 04:42 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Valis-In my tropical chart I have Aries rising and Aries Moon in the 12th house (using placidus and Koch houses otherwise one or both are in the 1st house). In my sidereal chart I have Pisces rising and Pisces Moon in the 12 house (using placidus, equal, whole sign, meridian houses. Koch house has my Pisces rising in house 1). All house types aside, I can say that I relate to any combination of these two signs. I've read descriptions of both Aries and Pisces rising and moon in the 12th and 1st house, and I think I act like both from time to time. I do not think Aries and Pisces are that different although they are depicted to be because of the whole fire, water, yin, yang thing but it's really hard to draw the line. I have a book of symbols that places Pisces, Aries, and Taurus in one group. Gemini, Cancer, and Leo in a group. Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio in a group and Sagittarius, Capricorn, and Aquarius in another. Which I really think makes sense.
Do some personal analysis. Rather than acting like a description let yourself act as you normally would. Ignore what you know or think you know about astrology when doing this experiment. Pay attention to your actions in a fluid manner. Meditate on your actions. Visualize your being. Then after time relate it to astrology. See what you find.
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  #32  
Unread 11-23-2011, 05:28 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

This is very good idea!!!!!!!! I had dreams where people would rip up my chart and tell me I am no just this and change it with other signs especially sag, which is odd but interesting considering what you wrote.
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  #33  
Unread 11-23-2011, 05:34 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Sundance Kid-
I think Vedic and western do have different meanings for the signs but a conversion can be done between the two just like different countries convert measurements and money etc. Also because we all use the same planets, sun, moon and stars as a reference.
So If sidereal astrology puts your moon in Libra then look to westerns description of Libra.
You could also read Vedic's descriptions.
The biggest thing is that we are all a combination of every planet and sign to some degree and aspects may be the most important thing in any chart

Your question puts up another point that I want to address. Alright so, even though people's view of the sky is different depending on the time period and location on Earth they view from, the sun, moon, planets and stars are relatively in the same place in space. The sidereal zodiac uses the real space depiction and they implemented these changes where as tropical did not. But tropical still might be accurate because nobody can disprove it. When I was born the moon was actually in the constellation of Pisces and not Aries. But the main question is, what does Pisces mean. What does Aries mean. What does Libra mean and so on. Read all the descriptions and don't just pick one because it's cooler or more masculine or sounds better. Pick the one you think is you and take your time doing it. Experiment with it.

Last edited by jamescondor; 11-23-2011 at 05:39 PM.
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  #34  
Unread 11-23-2011, 05:35 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Do you have a good link for verdic descriptions/ Does the sidereal description differ from the others?
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  #35  
Unread 11-23-2011, 06:01 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescondor View Post
Do some personal analysis. Rather than acting like a description let yourself act as you normally would. Ignore what you know or think you know about astrology when doing this experiment. Pay attention to your actions in a fluid manner. Meditate on your actions. Visualize your being. Then after time relate it to astrology. See what you find.

Very wise, James!

I do think that different people, let alone different astrologers, resonate more strongly to one zodiac and house system than to others.

Also, we have to anticipate people changing over the life course. We would expect this due to progressions and major formative life experiences. Also, as people age, at least the traditional astrologers predicted different planets as highly influential in different life stages.

As a baby boomer, I can see how I am becoming more saturnine. My Aquarian planets would be in Capricorn in a sidereal zodiac; but I didn't feel Capricornish when I was younger.

However, my chart in the tropical zodiac is mostly air and fire. I think this is correct; vs. the sidereal zodiac where it would be mostly earth and water.
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  #36  
Unread 11-23-2011, 06:04 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

I just google Vedic astrology and read from different sites.
There are allot of differences between the two branches. One difference that seems to be a hot topic is that of the zodiac
As far as 'the zodiac' ,the main difference I have found is that Vedic uses the sidereal zodiac and western uses the tropical zodiac. Wikipedia is a good site to see this.
There are allot of other differences between the two branches though
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  #37  
Unread 11-23-2011, 06:05 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

I think when reading vedic gemini to cancer sun tropical, I am having trouble finding a good site to really show the difference. Geminis change because of their mental nature and for Cancers it is the same kind of fluid energy but emotionally based. I guess that is correct?
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  #38  
Unread 11-23-2011, 06:32 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

As far as I know the translations are the same. Western would say something like sun in Gemini. Vedic would translated this to lagna (sun) in Mithuna (Gemini) in Hindu language.
Vedic does use material that western doesn't, like Nakshatras or lunar mansions and Varga or divisional charts. I just found this on Wikipedia.org.
I don't know much about Vedic astrology. I just find whats out there and try to use it.

But yeah if I wanted to simplify things or If i had to categorize I would think Gemini and Cancer are quite related and so on like I listed in the post before.
The book of symbols says that pis, ari, and tau are more of a physical being like just entering the world and early life, gem, can, leo are more heart related like teenage through twenties, falling in love, joking around, marriage, vir, lib, and sco more middle age, society, work, communication, relating, and sag, cap and aqu are more spiritual, older life, been there done that attitude, retire, re birth. That's just what I read from that book though and it's based on old believes. Allot of it makes sense some of it maybe not so much

Last edited by jamescondor; 11-23-2011 at 06:54 PM.
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  #39  
Unread 11-23-2011, 06:37 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Yeah this sounds very confusing, I looked some stuff up too yet still confused over vedic.
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  #40  
Unread 11-23-2011, 07:07 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Love2Know have you looked at astro.com's extended chart selection before?
If not then go there and experiment with the circular charts in different houses and check out pullen's simple chart delineation
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  #41  
Unread 11-23-2011, 07:53 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

vERY interesting though "Retrograde Mercury in Leo and 12th House: This person's thoughts, intellect,
and communicative activity is very proud, gregarious, dramatic, dignified,
and desires self expression. Most often this manifests in an independent,
backward, introverted manner, and in the area of life dealing with things
that disrupt or cause disassociation with the personality. It is difficult
for them to express this part of themself." I have no idea how that relates to myself.

What areas of life disrupt or case disassociation ? Darn all these retrogrades I have, I guess this would make me more introverted>

Last edited by Love2Know; 11-23-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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  #42  
Unread 11-23-2011, 08:17 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

I'm not a pro so I wouldn't know exactly what your major aspects are. But I do give good suggestions and I think you and anybody really should look at your chart as a whole. Planets by themselves sometimes don't show a good picture of personality traits. Each planet in connection to each other and in the signs and houses is important. Aspects are important. Some aspects have more effect on ones personality. I think you should post your chart on a thread and have people interpret it.
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  #43  
Unread 11-23-2011, 08:30 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Yes I did thanks I was still trying to grasp retrogrades which I just recently learnt about.
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  #44  
Unread 02-11-2017, 03:34 PM
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I recently started reading about sidereal vs topical astrology. My sidereal birth chart puts me in Aquarius instead of the Pisces I always thought I was. However that birth chart also has me with Pisces as my ascendant and my moon in Cancer. My question is, did it just work out that way or is the ascendant the same as your tropical astrological sign? I will say that the siderealbirth chart is completely me. My family agrees that it's a much more accurate than the tropical birth chart and Pisces personality descriptions I always thought didn't really reflect me. My tropical birth chart is Pisces with Aries Ascendant and Leo moon. So not me!
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  #45  
Unread 04-06-2017, 10:33 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Yes, true. I have an astrologer friend with the Sun at 20 Cancer, right on the helio node of Pluto. That person is so Pluto/Aries. The person even has red flushed cheeks and dyes the hair red too. Very driven to succeed. Will approach anyone and ask for what she wants. Not a shy introverted Cancer at all. Very forceful and take charge. But she doesn't want to have a strong Pluto/Aries connection in her chart. So she denies it but her actions speak for themselves.
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  #46  
Unread 07-26-2017, 05:36 PM
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Re: Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamescondor View Post
Sundance Kid-
I think Vedic and western do have different meanings for the signs but a conversion can be done between the two just like different countries convert measurements and money etc. Also because we all use the same planets, sun, moon and stars as a reference.
So If sidereal astrology puts your moon in Libra then look to westerns description of Libra.
You could also read Vedic's descriptions.
The biggest thing is that we are all a combination of every planet and sign to some degree and aspects may be the most important thing in any chart

Your question puts up another point that I want to address. Alright so, even though people's view of the sky is different depending on the time period and location on Earth they view from, the sun, moon, planets and stars are relatively in the same place in space. The sidereal zodiac uses the real space depiction and they implemented these changes where as tropical did not. But tropical still might be accurate because nobody can disprove it. When I was born the moon was actually in the constellation of Pisces and not Aries. But the main question is, what does Pisces mean. What does Aries mean. What does Libra mean and so on. Read all the descriptions and don't just pick one because it's cooler or more masculine or sounds better. Pick the one you think is you and take your time doing it. Experiment with it.
"Longitudes were not counted from the vernal point
but from the sidereally fixed endpoints of the zodiacal signs"
Otto E. Neugebauer

Reference: Neugebauer, Otto. HAMA:
A History of Ancient Mathematical Astronomy. Springer-Verlag (1975). Berlin-Heidelberg.
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