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  #26  
Unread 04-23-2016, 03:29 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
For time of passing -- Jupiter and Node in the 4th squ his natal Sun in the 8th.
This strikes me as fulfilling some kind of destiny that he felt with himself as a human - not as the performer. The not-so-subtle issue of death and dying and being okay with it.
I didn't know his mother was a Witness - but the timing with her death and his adherence to the principles, after such a long time of his life of doing things that could be considered not of scriptural purpose, sure makes sense.

Jupiter and Node in 4th -of death chart - combined with his moon in pisces in 4th....

or was it prophecy of his own making?

wowza

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  #27  
Unread 04-23-2016, 05:22 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

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Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
This strikes me as fulfilling some kind of destiny that he felt with himself as a human - not as the performer. The not-so-subtle issue of death and dying and being okay with it.
I didn't know his mother was a Witness - but the timing with her death and his adherence to the principles, after such a long time of his life of doing things that could be considered not of scriptural purpose, sure makes sense.

Jupiter and Node in 4th -of death chart - combined with his moon in pisces in 4th....

or was it prophecy of his own making?

wowza
I agree, wowza! Yes, he was comfortable and ready for his death, and the death is connected to his mother.

The death chart is consistent with the natal chart karmic markers.
Jup/NN means a big spiritual leap forward, the Moon is his past lives and his mother.
He wanted to return to his spiritual Home, to be in a place where he could be the mystic and poet, and not deal with earthly issues. And be re-united with this mother with whom he spent many past lives.
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  #28  
Unread 04-24-2016, 06:04 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Prince's mother Mattie Shaw
DOB: 11/11/1933 Minneapolis, MN. She was a twin.
Died: 2/15/2002 Edina, MN
Attachment 59547
According to the Harvard Gazette, Prince was constantly moving during his childhood, changing addresses more than 30 times. The cultural critic Touré said in a talk at Harvard that Prince believed he had been abandoned by his mother.

“He kept a lot of feelings to himself,” Touré said. “He has been shaped by being functionally abandoned by his mother.”
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  #29  
Unread 04-24-2016, 11:40 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Deanna -

Thanks for putting up his mom's birth date.

By quick glance of 1933 ephem - looks like his mom had 23-24' Mars Sag - which is fairly closely conjunct Prince's Saturn in 2nd at 22'. Seems like it could be a values-activation point for him.

It looks like Pluto was at about 17' Sag at her death - close enough, and in process, to both his Mars and her Saturn in his 2nd house. This tells me that he was preparing/undergoing a pretty huge transformation of values - and I think it was around this time, in the early-mid 2000's that he gave himself willingly to adherence of the Jehovah's Witness principles and practices, which his mother had hoped for him.
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  #30  
Unread 04-24-2016, 03:12 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

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Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
Okay, thank you Tim - that was/is my intention for this Thread . As you can see, there is a natal and event chart posted, and I view this thread as a 'work in progress' for myself and others who would like to offer their astrological opinions.

As you might see in my 2nd post - I highlighted significant "indicators" of Prince's talent/skills/etc - with the intent of breaking them down to study points.

I will delete the link to his song which I posted, since it may not be considered astrological.

SO..........

Shall we discuss the natal chart and how/where we might find the following Talking Points in it?

Possible Astrological Indicators in Natal Chart.....

showman and dancer and musician and instrumentalist
mars critical degree aries on 5th cusp - a "creator/creative force"
ruler of Asc conjunct MC. his persona was powerfully embraced by the masses and was his unique signature.

died at home/work
moon in 4th - end of life circumstance

homeland
moon in 4th - never left Minneapolis as "home"
feminine quality
ruler of 7th venus in 6th - opposing neptune 12th - he dressed in feminized matter, wore make up that diffused his masculinity

bucking of authority / rebellion


problems with contracts negotiated
ruler of 7th house Venus squaring Uranus

bondage/locking in others
moon/pluto opposition - 'possessing' 'not letting go'
saturn trine pluto - from 10th to 2nd - power of belief that others were 'possessions'?
sun-saturn opposition - from 2nd to 8th

child with a severe birth disability died a week after birth


converted to Jehovah's Witnesses


secretive, reclusive
neptune in 12th conjunct n.node. the aura of mystery - hiding from the world - and considering his public and private persona of Asc ruler on 10th trining neptune in 12th with node - his fitting destiny to live in the neptunian way of two different worlds.


Small of stature and fragile
in appearance
Asc ruler square Saturn in 2nd - restrictions and limitations due to his physical size. As well, 5th house Mars squaring Saturn in 2nd - I would guess that he may have even had an eating disorder or very limited diet, given Mars rulership of 6th house as well.


extremely athletic
shown by critical degree mars in Aries on 5th with the quinx to Pluto 10th - it seemed to be well known by others in his career, but not something he was ever given credit for other than in passing.

vulgar sexuality
Sun in 8th in mercurial gemini opposing Saturn - it was probably impossible for him to restrain the constant mental stimulation of his own sexuality.

These are just starting points for discussion - general at best - hope others will add in more depth and thanks to those who have already offered some insights into the natal chart.

Observing Neptune in the 12th, I'm sure he was quite an introspective person, with hidden sensitivities, insecurities, and fears. Perhaps he took certain sedatives to calm his nerves and no one knew of it. Something could've been eating at him within, which is what caused the nerves he was feeling hours before his death. He took many pills, first taking pain medications for his hips, then he may have taken something to neutralize his epilepsy, at the time, he was taking pills to neutralize the flu symptoms, and he may have other medications he was taking. He was unresponsive on the plane when they made an emergency landing (possible medication overdose), and it was hidden from the public until after his passing.

Edit: Looks like I was right. Hidden phobias...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...addiction.html

Interesting enough, I have Saturn in 2nd, and I'm quite frail in the same way. Being a vegan, I'm sure he didn't have all of the nutrients he needed. He had to take certain supplements. With Venus in the 6th, he never had a problem caring for his health before, but possibly had indulgent tendencies. Possibly loved work and over-did things.

Focusing on the fact that he may have been dehydrated...and the fact that he was left alone at his estate, knowing how he had been "unresponsive" on the plane before. Anyone peep an aspect or house placement that reflects this?

I want to add that he has the same Moon sign MJ had. They both had mothers who were Witnesses. Both had Moon-Pluto aspect. Both were very sensitive and recluses. Both suffered drug addictions (but considering the generation, Prince being close to Pluto in Virgo and MJ having Pluto in Virgo, they were drugs for dealing with mental and physical health). Both had Venus in 6th (they loved their work and strangely died around the time they had worked their hardest).

Last edited by soratothamax; 04-24-2016 at 05:39 PM. Reason: adding information
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  #31  
Unread 04-24-2016, 07:27 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Soro -

I found that interesting, too - the connection of the Witness mother's to both MJ and Prince. Did not know that MJ had Moon Pluto too.

The Hades Moon is indeed private and reclusive when it comes to home and family - and even more so, I imagine if you have an entire planet of people wanting to get at you - get to you - get a piece of you.

I just read that Prince had a small memorial of family and close friends and that there will be no public memorial, nor disclosure of where his cremated remains will be kept. Moon-Pluto showing at its finest and strongest for intentional privacy even after death.
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  #32  
Unread 04-24-2016, 08:23 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Also note that Prince was cremated on April 23 and this is traditionally been Shakespeare's birthday.

Going through my book of ruler ship and trying to zoom in on Prince's illness:
-------------
Bones in general rule Saturn/Capricorn and the 10th house.

Ankles rule: Aquarius/Uranus/11th house

Hips, hip disease, dislocation of hip joints: 9th house/Jupiter/Sagittarius

Bone, diseases of, broken or dislocated bones: Capricorn/Saturn
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  #33  
Unread 04-26-2016, 02:09 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanna View Post
Prince's mother Mattie Shaw
DOB: 11/11/1933 Minneapolis, MN. She was a twin.
Died: 2/15/2002 Edina, MN
Attachment 59547
According to the Harvard Gazette, Prince was constantly moving during his childhood, changing addresses more than 30 times. The cultural critic Touré said in a talk at Harvard that Prince believed he had been abandoned by his mother.

“He kept a lot of feelings to himself,” Touré said. “He has been shaped by being functionally abandoned by his mother.”
I wonder what time she was born but his Pluto likely conjuncts her Moon and her own Moon is conjunct Neptune.
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  #34  
Unread 04-26-2016, 03:27 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
I wonder what time she was born but his Pluto likely conjuncts her Moon and her own Moon is conjunct Neptune.

Abandonment and rejection is the hallmark of the Hades Moon. (Plutonic Moon).
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  #35  
Unread 04-26-2016, 08:30 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Could someone please do a horary chart asking if Prince has a will?

I can't believe he would not have one.

My assumption is that if there is a will the church would get most of it.

I envision him being a humanitarian up to the end.

Thanks !
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Unread 04-26-2016, 08:41 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

I have known and loved many Witnesses in my life - and I know for fact that although the organization accept gifts willingly and thankfully, they NEVER ask members for money or bequests, never.... So, if he opted for that - let's hope it's understood for what it was - unsolicited benevolence.

I could not imagine that as an astute businessman as he was, he didn't have things wrapped up. Geez - any performer who flies on planes or travels on busses on regularity would likely make sure that in case of accidental death - they would know where their fortune would end up.

I'm not into the horary idea for this, personally, but maybe someone will want to cast it for curiosity - But I will add, that if this get off topic from it and begins to be overiddden negative comments or opinions of JW's - I will ask admin to intervene. I have seen it happen before on forums. As well, there would be even more guilt of my own for opening up such a thread about him, because he would likely be the first to say, if he knew - "don't use astrology to define me."

Aside from that - He had Jupiter ruler of 2nd* and posited in 11th house - so my guess is that he will have 'gladly' offered up bounty to the many human charities he had involved himself with since he made his first dollar.

Not sure where you're coming from with the question posed, but I sense it might be self-directed interest. No hard feelings, just standing up for the rights and right to beliefs of a man I have respected and admired for over 30 years. Plus - sometimes, this is how threads get skewed.

Peace Fingers - K

Last edited by Kitchy; 04-26-2016 at 08:49 PM.
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  #37  
Unread 04-26-2016, 08:59 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

There is no self interest involved with posing the question on casting a horary chart to ask the question if Prince had a will.

I have been reading about all the good deeds that Prince has done and I was hoping those good deeds continued - be it through his church or his loved ones that want to carry on his legacy.

Thanks!
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Unread 04-26-2016, 09:12 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Right on. Like I said, no harm no foul - just wanted to make sure we stay on track of Prince's goodness and not let it swerve. I know he was a very active contributor in his moony home of Minne - which probably you know more first-hand than what I've read or learned.

I think his steadfast belief of principles and financial concern with his 'neighborhood' can be seen in his Jupiter - Uranus aspect, rulers of 2nd and 3rd. I read that he contributed greatly to a community garden program in Minneapolis - telling me even more about his reliance and belief in self-sufficiency.
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  #39  
Unread 04-26-2016, 09:14 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanna View Post
There is no self interest involved with posing the question on casting a horary chart to ask the question if Prince had a will.

I have been reading about all the good deeds that Prince has done and I was hoping those good deeds continued - be it through his church or his loved ones that want to carry on his legacy.

Thanks!
Horary wouldn't work in a case like this unless you expected to be a beneficiary or had some other compelling interest.

It's been a long time since I lived in the States, or practised law, but unless things have changed radically, and I don't believe they have, probate is still a matter of public record. So you could check that.
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  #40  
Unread 04-27-2016, 03:00 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanna View Post
Going through my book of ruler ship and trying to zoom in on Prince's illness:
-------------
Bones in general rule Saturn/Capricorn and the 10th house.

Ankles rule: Aquarius/Uranus/11th house

Hips, hip disease, dislocation of hip joints: 9th house/Jupiter/Sagittarius

Bone, diseases of, broken or dislocated bones: Capricorn/Saturn
This also got me curious about his chart re: ill health. I'm not well-practiced in medical astrology but a couple of things stood out to me:

Hip issues -- Mars rules the 6th and is square Saturn (bones) in Sagittarius (hips). Mars also traditionally rules the 1st house (physical body)

Epilepsy -- Afflicted Gemini (central nervous system) Sun and Mercury, also Venus in 6th square Uranus (neural activity)
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  #41  
Unread 04-27-2016, 03:14 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Yes, the 6th house issues stood out to me, too -

I've seen written that the hip injury came from his jumping and 'acrobatics' on stage - 5th house / 1st house - rulers Pluto 1st and Mars 5th - "explosive movement injuries" they call them in sports. Usually from basketball, volleyball, tennis and any other activity that lands one's feet on hard surfaces over and over again - absorbed by knees and hips. Maybe the basketball jumps too when he was younger -

Saturnian degeneration of bones/hips/joints - that led to need for pain management and prescription drugs. Mars Saturn square and Mars Neptune inconjunct - un-noticeable until it was too late to do anything helpful about it?

Athletes, too, commonly require hip replacement and many post-surgery, have developed dependence on Rx pain-killers.

Look at those aspects to Saturn in his chart, overall! Jupiter - the only decent one - "the show must go on!" kind of thing. I can imagine he was in quite a bit of pain during his performances. The high heels certainly didn't help absorb the impact and shock on his joints.
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  #42  
Unread 04-27-2016, 04:02 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
Look at those aspects to Saturn in his chart, overall! Jupiter - the only decent one - "the show must go on!" kind of thing. I can imagine he was in quite a bit of pain during his performances. The high heels certainly didn't help absorb the impact and shock on his joints.
Yes, he has so many indicators of overwork/strain in his chart, it would take too long to elaborate on them all. And those same factors are what made him a legendary performer.
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  #43  
Unread 04-27-2016, 04:44 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Btw, Kitchy, if you ever want to make a thread on performers and the 6th house, I think that would be an interesting discussion.
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Unread 04-27-2016, 06:33 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Transit Saturn was within a 1 degree opposition to Prince's natal Sun (75°32') from February 22nd until his death
(2 months) and stationed for 1 week (March 22 thru March 29) in opposition at 255°25'.

Data for his flight on April 14-15 from Atlanta, GA to Moline, IL.

From Flight Track Log ✈ EJM990 ✈ 15-Apr-2016 ✈ KATL - KMLI ✈ FlightAware

Fri 12:51:00 AM Departure (KATL) @ Friday 12:51:00 AM EDT

Leveled off at 45,000 feet until about 48 minutes after take off then slight changes in 7 minutes . . .

-----Time EDT-------Lat---------Long--------Direction-----MPH---Altitude-----Rate

Fri 01:39:33 AM**38.3261**-87.9700***331° N'west**510***45,000****-50
Fri 01:46:39 AM**39.0969**-88.5264***330° N'west**521***45,000*****34

Then steady for about 15 minutes before beginning descent. . .

Fri 02:01:44 AM**40.6908**-89.7225***330° N'west**504***45,000****-250

Nearest to Lat and Long - Maxwell, IL; 40°N41'19'' (40.688611), 089°W42'01'' (89.700278) at 1:02 am, CDT

Fri 02:18:00 AM Arrival (KMLI) @ Friday 01:18:00 AM CDT

His progressed demi-anlunar's zenith at Maxwell was at 251°02'. Return Mars-Saturn midpoint was at 251°06'.
The MC was at 258°, his progressed natal Saturn was at 258°34'.

Last edited by unique_astrology; 04-27-2016 at 06:43 PM.
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  #45  
Unread 04-27-2016, 06:45 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Unique - thank you for joining in.

This part is telling ....

"The MC was at 258°, his progressed natal Saturn was at 258°34'."

Not to shift too far off topic, but are you aware of other like deaths that shared this MC progressed Saturn in terms of airplanes - altitudes and descents and re-ascents?

In some way, as I see it, the matter of planes, ascenscion, the MC - highest point in the sky - overlooking earth and dropping back down to earth for help but still continuing on in flight - has a meaning, but one which I don't understand.

Not trying to sound woo-woo about this - but once your feet are on the ground after hazard in the air, usually that is where you want to keep them, right?

The IC was calling him home. If he had stayed in Moline, unprivate room or not, I wonder if things would have changed in the outcome -
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Unread 04-27-2016, 07:35 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Too many thousands of charts run together for me and my memory is not as good as it used to be. I never made a study of plane crashes. Nothing about the ones I did charts for stands out in my memory.

A change of location for Prince would probably have only changed the timing of death for him. The Saturn transit of 2 months in opposition to his natal Sun during which time it stationed in that opposition for a whole week was devastating to his immune system and very likely to his heart.

The incident on the 15th was due to an overdose and his secondary progressed chart (Q2, Mean Quotidian angles) for a possible time of death had transit Neptune on the IC.

I imagine a scare during a flight could keep some from flying again. I was always fortunate.
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  #47  
Unread 04-28-2016, 06:25 AM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

Thank you, Unique -

I was thinking more along lines of the course of fate that he didn't remain in the hospital after being mid-air with a possible near death event, not crash related, but the whole getting back on plane thing. The absence of self-saving. I think he would have lived if he had stayed at the hospital for a day or two.
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  #48  
Unread 04-28-2016, 12:45 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

11 hour period of constant stress.

FINAL PDAL from 5:20 pm, CDT, on Apr 20, 2016, to 4:33 am, CDT, on APR 21, 2016, in Chanhassen, MN. All with transit Saturn within a 1 degree opposition of his natal Sun, where it had been everyday for 2 months including 7 days of a stationary opposition. During this time it was about 000°44' from exact.


(DS PDAL is acronym for demi-solar progressed demi-anlunar)

325°24' DS PDAL MC at 3 am, CDT on the 21st.

320°50' - Natal Sun on Asc (5:20 pm on Apr 20)
321°36' - Precessed natal Sun on Asc
322°25' - SR Mars on Asc
322°29' - Transit Saturn on Desc
322°48 - PDAL Saturn on Desc (9:30 pm)
323°54' - Natal Uranus-Pluto midpoint on the IC
324°34' - Squared by prog natal Saturn-Neptune midpoint at 234°34'
325°13 - Prog natal Saturn on Desc
325°24' Prog MC of demi-solar demi-anlunar at 3 am, CDT, in Chanhassen, MN
326°03' - Prog natal Sun-Pluto midpoint on the IC
326°09' - Prog natal Uranus-Pluto midpoint on the IC (4:33 am, Apr 21)

Last edited by unique_astrology; 04-28-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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  #49  
Unread 04-28-2016, 02:13 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

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Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post


bucking of authority / rebellion


....These are just starting points for discussion - general at best ....

Gemini Sun-Mercury conjunction opposes Sagittarius Saturn

Certainly challenged authority



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Unread 04-28-2016, 09:26 PM
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Re: Prince Rogers Nelson Dies at 57

I rectified Prince’s chart by testing significant events in his life (the last of which included his death). Each event was accompanied by progressed aspects that matched the nature and timing of the event.

According to page 16 of Jon Bream’s book, Inside the Purple Reign, Prince was born at 6:17 pm. He was born at Mount Sinai Hospital, which was located at 2215 Park S, Minneapolis, MN 55404. The birth coordinates for that location are 44N57.36 Latitude/93W15.50 Longitude.

Rectification of his birth time, in relation to the coordinates above, led to the 16° Scorpio 13’ 31” chart you see below. It coincides with the time of 5:13:58pm, CST.



Incarnation Times for Prince Roger Nelson

I thought that those who are interested in studying his chart can benefit from the information it contains, especially from the astrological indicators (progressions) shown in relation to events, and in particular to his death.

Many events were tested, but for the sake of brevity, I’ve included six of them here:

1. January 28, 1985: Won 3 American Music Awards
2. February 14, 1996: Married his first wife
3. March 4, 2000: Won Artist of the Decade Soul Train Music Award
4. December 31, 2001: Married his second wife
5. June 27, 2010: Received BET Lifetime Achievement Award
6. April 21, 2016: Died

The secondary progressions that showed for each event were as follows:

January 28, 1985: Won 3 American Music Awards (The MC or 10th house planets are always involved in major wins/awards received)

• Progressed Mars semisquare natal Mercury – 1 minute
• Progressed Neptune trine natal Moon – 4 minutes
• Progressed Pluto quincunx natal Mars – 2 minutes
• Progressed MC 75° progressed Sun – 1 minute
• Progressed MC sesquiquintile (108°) progressed Venus – 3 minutes
• Progressed Jupiter quintile progressed Uranus – 0 minutes




February 14, 1996: Married first wife

• Progressed Jupiter 165° natal Venus – 2 minutes
• Progressed Jupiter sextile natal Saturn – 4 minutes
• Progressed Mercury 165° natal Moon – 5 minutes
• Progressed Neptune trine natal Moon – 2 minutes
• Progressed Mercury 75° progressed Neptune – 2 minutes
• Progressed Jupiter quintile progressed Uranus – 2 minutes




March 4, 2000: Won Artist of the Decade Award at the Soul Train Music Awards

• Progressed Mars trine natal MC – 3 minutes
• Progressed Saturn quintile natal Moon – 5 minutes
• Progressed Neptune trine natal Moon – 3 minutes
• Progressed Pluto contraparallel natal/progressed Saturn – 1, 3 minutes respectively




December 31, 2001: Married second wife

• Progressed Sun sesquiquintile/quintile natal ASC/DSC – 1 minute
• Progressed ASC/DSC quintile/sesquiquintile natal Moon – 3 minutes
• Progressed ASC/DSC conjunct/opposition progressed Saturn – 3 minutes




June 27, 2010: Received BET Lifetime Achievement Award

• Progressed Pluto 75° natal ASC – 3 minutes
• Progressed Moon quintile natal ASC – 1 minute
• Progressed Sun parallel natal Uranus – 0 minutes
• Progressed MC conjunct progressed Jupiter – 1 minute
• Progressed Pluto contraparallel progressed Saturn – 1 minute




April 21, 2016: Died

• Progressed Venus parallel natal Pluto – 1 minute
• Progressed Mars parallel natal Venus – 3 minutes
• Progressed ASC sextile natal Neptune – 5 minutes
• Progressed 8th house cusp quintile/sesquiquintile natal 12th and 6th house cusps – 0 minutes
• Progressed Sun conjunct progressed Uranus – 3 minutes
• Progressed Venus semisquare progressed Pluto – 2 minutes
• Progressed Pluto sesquiquintile progressed Saturn – 2 minutes


Last edited by Astro-Intuitive; 04-28-2016 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Typos
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