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Unread 03-25-2010, 03:49 AM
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Lightbulb Pluto and What Lies Beyond

In Astrology of Inner Space by Carl Payne Tobey, he talks about a discovery he made one night:

Carl Payne Tobey, Astrology of Inner Space
pgs. 85-93
Quote:
The thought that was uncovered for me just as I was dozing off that night was realization that the factor of rulership employed by the ancients involved two things, mean distance from the earth and the path around the circle. This was arithmetically substantiated, but some of the numbers were missing. They could be filled in.

The ancients associated a planet with each sign of the zodiac and said that a particular planet ruled a particular sign. They associated the planets with the signs in a specific fashion as follows:

Aries: Mars --- Libra: Venus
Taurus: Venus --- Scorpio: Mars
Gemini: Mercury --- Sagittarius: Jupiter
Cancer: Moon --- Capricorn: Saturn
Leo: Sun --- Aquarius: Uranus
Virgo: Mercury --- Pisces: Jupiter

Lying there in bed, dozing off, I was puzzled about the above pattern and I substituted numbers for names. When I did this, the above table changed to the following one. The numbers represented relative mean distance from the earth. The Moon is close to the earth, and so, I gave it the number one. The Sun is next (by mean distance) and so I called it two. Mercury was three, Venus four, Mars five, Jupiter six and Saturn seven. Then the pattern changed as follows.

Aries 5 --- Libra 4
Taurus 4 --- Scorpio 5
Gemini 3 --- Sagittarius 6
Cancer 1 --- Capricorn 7
Leo 2 --- Aquarius 7
Virgo 3 --- Pisces 6

---------------------------

Uranus was discovered in 1781 by a musician and astrologers began experimenting.

Finally, they came up with the idea the Uranus was the real ruler of Aquarius, rather than Saturn. A surprising thing is that no astrologer came up with the idea that it might rule some other sign other than Aquarius. This concept was immediately accepted by all the astrologers from England to India.

This meant that they unconsciously dropped the seven from the clockwise count and added eight to the counterclockwise count.

In 1846, two more back-yard Edisons can along. They were unknown to each other. They were mathematicians, not astronomers. Both computed the position of the planet Neptune from the unaccountable action of Uranus.

After the discovery of Neptune, the astrologers experimented and came up with the idea that Neptune, not Jupiter, was the true ruler of Pisces.

In assigning Neptune to Pisces, they dropped the six in the clockwise count and added nine in the counterclockwise count.

In 1930, Pluto was discovered by an employee working at Lowell Observatory at Flagstaff in northern Arizona. His name was Clyde Tombaugh. He was not an astronomer.

Anyway, what were the astrologers going to do about Pluto? Well, after noting the sequence already observed, I placed it in Aries. That was the natural place for it to fall according to history. Arithmetically the mathematical sequence indicated that it belonged as the ruler of Aries. The rest of the astrological profession studied Greek mythology and placed it in Scorpio. I didn't actually announce my position until 1938, eight years after its discovery. During those eight years, I was researching the matter to see whether the empirical information confirmed my view. When it did, I published a small book on the sequence (A New Experiment in Astrology) and made my announcement.

All hell broke loose.

The vested interests were infuriated. They had already associated Pluto with Scorpio. What right did I have to differ with them? A sharp con man from California, who had incorporated his "brotherhood" into a "church," was now a minister instead of a brother. Launching an attack on me, he went out to organize standard astrology, which was to standardize to works of Ptolemy and Allen Leo with all their materialism, and nothing would ever be changed again.

---------------------------

There was a convention in New Orleans. I was late getting there and I crossed the whole state of Texas in my car in less than 24 hours to arrive at 4:00 a.m. I was already a weekend late. At 9:00 a.m. I looked over the program and discovered a lady who was lecturing on Pluto. That, I must hear. I attended. The woman told about her research on Pluto, described her experiences and concluded that Pluto ruled Aries, not Scorpio. What astonished me was that all her claimed experiences were published several years before in a book I wrote on Pluto.

When the lecture was over, I was hungry and went to the dining room for breakfast. Before the food arrived, an acquaintance came accompanied by the lady who had delivered the lecture, introduced her and accepted my invitation to join me. I discussed the coincidence but dropped the idea that this might be plagiarism. The lady seemed very sincere in telling me this had all happened to her. It wasn't important and I forgot the whole matter.

Several years later, this lady had wrote a book. I was to edit it. In it she described Pluto as being the ruler of Scorpio. After that lecture, this was quite a mystery. I wrote and asked her what happened to change her mind. She replied and explained, "I wanted to be on the side of the majority."
He goes on to talk about the design in the universe suggesting two more planets outside the orbit of Pluto that would rule Taurus and Gemini. I mentioned Tobey on another forum, relating more information in this book. The thread was about the planets Tobey called "Y" and "Z". This is my first post on that thread:

Quote:
In Astrology of Inner Space by Carl Payne Tobey, he mentioned two planets farther out than Pluto that he called "Y" and "Z". In his Leo Clockwise count system, he called "Y" the controller of Taurus and "Z" the controller of Gemini because the system of double rulership didn't make any sense to him. Why should Capricorn get it's own planet and Libra and Taurus don't?

While talking about planet "Z" in the book, he mentions Gemini people having a compassionate side that he couldn't attribute to Gemini itself, but to "Z" being in Pisces. In the mid 1960's he thought "Z" should be coming to it's end in Pisces and was going to switch into Aries. Eventually he noticed Gemini people coming to see him were reporting restlessness and boredom in their secure jobs and talking about a need for excitement. This carried on for about two years before he remembered his file on "Z" and decided then to send out a question to Gemini people, around the world, in his column "This Week in Astrology." He got letters in from all over, from Geminis complaining about their thirst for adventure and dissatisfaction with their lives.

To be sure about this he sent out another letter to Taureans asking about their situation. He didn't get any reports of restlessness, but he said a lot of them asked about the financial state of their homes. They didn't want to leave them.

Since that time I understand NASA did discover other planets, but labeled them "Dwarf Planets" along with Pluto. Does anyone know about these planets or what signs they are currently in? I'm afraid I don't know a lot about the situation and was hoping for some insight from someone who might be following the story.
My next post here will be the second post I made on that thread...

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Last edited by Earth Sign; 03-25-2010 at 04:12 AM.
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Unread 03-25-2010, 03:52 AM
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Arrow Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

If anyone wants to hear about this subject from the source, this is the lesson I learned it from:

http://mysite.verizon.net/bonniehill/pages.aux/astrology/tobey/tobey.08.html

Oddly enough the word "Non-Survival" in the lesson was replaced by "Reform" among other typos.

Also not included are four diagrams used to illustrate his points. I have the original lesson so I took pictures. Sorry about the size. These are them:

This is the first diagram, it shows the planets orbit:




This is the second diagram, it shows the incomplete puzzle:




This is the third diagram, it shows the puzzle completed:




This is the fourth diagram, it shows an example of a magnetic field:




Also not included in the online lesson is his complete table of the signs:

Survival Dynamic Zodiacal Sign Solar Body
Individual - Cancer - Moon (1) (2)
Family - Scorpio - Mars (5) (10)
Social - Pisces - Neptune (9) (6)

Survival Dynamic Reactor
Individual - Capricorn - Saturn (7) (8)
Family - Taurus - "Y" (11) (4)
Social - Virgo - Mercury (3) (12)

Non-Survival Dynamic
Individual - Leo - Sun (2) (1)
Family - Aries - Pluto (10) (5)
Social - Sagittarius - Jupiter (6) (9)

Non-Survival Dynamic Guide
Individual - Aquarius - Uranus (8) (7)
Family - Libra - Venus (4) (11)
Social - Gemini - "Z" (12) (3)
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Last edited by Earth Sign; 03-25-2010 at 07:12 AM.
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Unread 04-23-2010, 06:33 AM
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Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

Nobody replied to this because it's a very raw issue in astrology, nobody really wants to discuss it until some consensus is somewhat agreed upon or back controversial ideas like the ones you mention because they're uncertain of them and settled into their routine. Everyone's too scared and few people have studied beyond the currently known planets, but I have and I'm not afraid to disagree and explain why I do.

IMO the inferior planets Mercury and Venus, whom are BOTH social and communication-related should both be placed with the Air element: They both are changeable and both about usage of words and don't have as much of an affinity with the quiet, steady, solid Earth element, so Mercury should be with the airy, curious sign Gemini (still keeping his exaltation of Virgo) and Venus, who is tactful and romantic (at her best) should be with the urbane sign Libra (both according to many connect to the 7th house of partners anyway). The way I see it-
the only element left to complete its modern rulership is the Earth element. Doesn't really matter that with the 30-degree signs they can't all be dignified at once, they already can't be exalted at the same time, or maybe we can re-think the 30-degree signs. Many astrologers want to add Ophiuchus, though I personally think Sagittarius works fine, I've come across an astrologer who sees no reason to just use 12 signs and has actually added two to him scheme.

And I don't care about the "alignment theory," I think this is called "mathematical astrology" and there WERE postulations that the newer planets might rule signs other than the ones they are commonly now said to rule, for instance the idea that Neptune should actually be ruler of Cancer, Curtis Manwaring briefly suggested that Aries might be ruled by Uranus, but the popular accepted idea was what we have now, and any astrologer is free to disagree with it, especially if they have proof to back their theories up. See this article for a detailed investigation into Uranus' association with Aquarius (which I'm still a bit skeptical of for a few reasons I explained here, though I do basically accept it.)

I can, and probably at some point will write a highly detailed report about why Mars is a better match with Aries and Pluto with Scorpio as far as affinities, but for now I'll keep it short: Mars is like fire, Pluto is like water, deep water. Mars is active, instinctive, short-tempered and aggressive, which is also like Aries in just about every way according to most astrologers. Pluto is more subtle, he's intense, he holds a grudge for a long time (fixed water sign/emotion Scorpio). Honestly I use them as co-rulers of each others' signs, but primarily Mars-Aries, Pluto-Scorpio. I'm not sure it always works, but in the case of "natural aspect," Mars and Aries are seen as being like the dynamic conjunction aspect and Pluto and Scorpio like the... more tentative quincunx, and I think it kind of works (but I don't really agree with this style of thinking, I don't see the Moon as always like the square or Venus as always like the opposition).

Now some people see rulerships as having different meaning, for instance Saturn I think was thought preferential in Aquarius to Capricorn because Saturn has more differences with that sign than with the more morbid sign Capricorn. Some people look for almutens, some people prefer the traditions, all of that I can respect; but for me I see affinities as proof that astrology works and is functional in our daily lives, and I find the whole thing very elegant and amazing.

To continue on from a point I made before about the Earth signs still being in need of rulers, I think I might have found them! Chiron has a little buzz as ruler of Virgo and I respect it and think 'maybe,' but he seems more watery than Earthy to me, he's about psychological issues and spiritual wounding. The planet(oid) I like better is the asteroid Pallas. In my research she seems to be creative, organized, modest, solitary, perhaps connected to health, to me she seems to match the mutable Earth sign pretty well. As for Taurus I'm liking Ceres, who gained a boost of popularity with the recent (useless) reclassification. Ceres seems to be pretty placid, about savoring, getting material things like food, clothes which seems to relate to Taurus and the 2nd house to me and it seems to be very comfortable in that sign. I'm not 150% positive on this and know I could be wrong, but for now those are the ones I use in hope of completing the modern rulerships, though I do have my periods of doubt and do look at other planetoids, for instance Vesta is sometimes said to have connection with Virgo and the Earth itself is usually said to have a connection with Taurus (though it's possible the Moon is just acting as an extension for mother Earth and therefore the Earth might rule Cancer, but that's another issue)

If you want a good place to see about which objects are now dwarf planets, dwarf planet candidates and other things like that try
http://serennu.com/astrology/ephemeris.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...net_candidates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ic_equilibrium
Keep in mind discoveries are still being made and not everything is named yet.

But I warn you, there are a lot of them now, we've definitely come and gone beyond 'Z' and our Solar System has proved (at least since Eris) to be much more complex than we would've guessed, for example the Oort cloud. I don't think we're gonna find some amazing new body out there that's gonna definitely be labelled 'planet.' No, if it's new rulers we want we're gonna have to be selective (reminds you of the Earth signs again, doesn't it?).

Sorry it's so long, but these are pretty important issues.

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Unread 04-25-2010, 02:57 AM
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Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

Thanks for your reply, Pallas-trine-Mars, it was interesting. Mathematical astrology is what I believe in because astrology exists in the abstract world, and the abstract world is mathematical. For me, the theory of mathematical astrology makes the most sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallas-trine-Mars
I can, and probably at some point will write a highly detailed report about why Mars is a better match with Aries and Pluto with Scorpio as far as affinities, but for now I'll keep it short: Mars is like fire, Pluto is like water, deep water. Mars is active, instinctive, short-tempered and aggressive, which is also like Aries in just about every way according to most astrologers. Pluto is more subtle, he's intense, he holds a grudge for a long time (fixed water sign/emotion Scorpio). Honestly I use them as co-rulers of each others' signs, but primarily Mars-Aries, Pluto-Scorpio.
The characteristics of Mars you mention also fit very well with Scorpio, I think. And I agree that they should work as co-rulers for each other, the mate signs, but I use it the other way around. I have to put more thought into Pluto, of the planets at hand it might be the one I understand the least, but I don't usually understand Aries people either, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallas-trine-Mars
I'm not sure it always works, but in the case of "natural aspect," Mars and Aries are seen as being like the dynamic conjunction aspect and Pluto and Scorpio like the... more tentative quincunx, and I think it kind of works (but I don't really agree with this style of thinking, I don't see the Moon as always like the square or Venus as always like the opposition).
It's interesting that you bring that up, I actually started a thread about a theory like that one, but Tobey started with conjunction associated to Leo, because in his view Leo was naturally the first sign. (Aspects as Astrology Signs)

I haven't done any research on Ceres or Pallas. Because I'm a user of mathematical astrology I've been looking outside the orbit of Pluto, keeping a heavy eye on planetoids Quaoar and Orcus because of their relative distance.

Have you noticed any influence from the placement of Ceres/Pallas in Taurus/Virgo people? I have Virgo Asc, Pallas also in Virgo and in the first house, so for me it's hard to tell...
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Unread 04-25-2010, 05:06 AM
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Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

Johndro (in the 1930's through 50's) worked out a new system of sign rulerships as well (he excluded Lunar and Solar rulership, for certain reasons which he explained) and included only the actual (ie astronomical) planets of the solar system (excluding earth): mercury, venus, mars, jupiter, saturn, uranus, neptune and pluto; Johndro was a famous business cycle astrologer (worked for the legendary Gann), and wrote 3 interesting books (Earth in the Heavens, The Stars:How and Where They Influence, and his Astrological Dictionary); one may still obtain a copy of his "new sign rulership" outline from the AFA.

I personally do not use Johndro's rulerships, but thought I might bring up his rather intriguing work (now all but forgotten) due to the theme of this thread.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 07:28 AM
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Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Sign View Post
astrology exists in the abstract world, and the abstract world is mathematical.
??? ...Ok, that's confusing to me, but doesn't abstract mean lacking such structures? I don't think we when also factor in the asteroid belt, the centaurs and the Trans-Neptunians that Mathematical is really realistic, and again my point about how not all of the planets can be exalted or in sect at once and Pluto's orbit that actually comes into Neptune's. Some people, apparently not understanding astrology's difference from astronomy suggested the Pluto doesn't even belong in astrology anymore after its "demotion". As a fellow Virgo rising I understand wishing it could be more organized.

Well, I see Scorpio and Pluto as more calculating, patient and covetous and Aries and Mars as the more abrupt, impulsive and physically active ones, Mars more cardinal and Pluto more fixed, but try things out for yourself, I can't make you believe me.

I posted a little bit about Pallas here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...572#post201572

And I do indeed have some observations about Ceres as well, I'll get to those a little bit later.

I like your aspects, the one I was talking about was where you start off with Aries-conjunction, Taurus-opposition, Gemini-trine and so on the number of sections to equal a whole circle: Opposition, 2 halves; Virgo as the sixth sign gets the sextile, Libra the septile...

Orcus is one of the only TNOs I haven't really messed with. I don't really know what it does, though I do have my hunches (heard he has to do with keeping promises), but mythologically he seems too dark for the signs still in need of their own rulers, though I'm not a big fan of basing guesses of what planets do on myths. I was wondering about Quaoar, Makemake or one of the dozens of other known ones (of who knows how many) maybe with Virgo, but it seems I always end up back at Pallas.

dr. farr, you make good point, there are definitely many different concepts and ruler schemes. Some people who don't understand the importance of them barely use them or bother with them. I've read the opposite concept where it is suggested that you only need the Sun and Moon and not really the other planets, but I don't really agree with these concepts.
---
I wonder if there's a connection between Varuna and Taurus- Malcolm X had Varuna conjunct Uranus and Megan Fox, Tori Spelling and Bettie Page have it conjunct Venus, Bernie Madoff has it (and Ceres) conjunct Saturn, and I don't think there's much doubt that those planets seem to have extra prominence with their identities.
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...Of the 2700 astronomers attending the conference (out of some 10,000 professionals worldwide), less than 500 actually voted on the resolution, which was put to the assembly on the last day of the conference. Not much of a consensus.
"

-Rob Tillett on the 2006 IAU General Assembly and the precedent to declare Pluto a "Dwarf Planet"


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Unread 06-07-2010, 08:20 PM
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Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

When things exist in the abstract world they tie into the fabric of existence. Math is abstract, it can't ever change design and there aren't exceptions to the rule. Astrology is mathematical because astrology is a design, and it's against the natural laws of the abstract for it to be disorganized.

Sorry I never replied to this, I took off for a while and I remembered this when I found a certain article on Pluto. The article is written by a woman who was a student of Carl Payne Tobey, and naturally I support her observations. Please read it, I found it interesting, and I'd like to hear what you think of it.

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Unread 06-07-2010, 10:00 PM
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Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

Again you're approaching astrology from a scientific ideal, but science/math and astrology aren't very compatible, otherwise scientist wouldn't abhor astrology the way they do, and again I must bring up the many factors of astrology that fail to live up to mathematical idealism, such as the fact that Mercury and the Sun are never more than 28 degrees apart yet their exaltations are 150 degrees apart, then you also factor in their exalted degrees, 19 Aries for the Sun, 15 Virgo for Mercury you have an otherwise unexplainable 146 degree difference, the only solution of which seems to be this guy's theories but they are all based on concepts, not laws of math. Here's another thing: The superior planets are said to be better when oriental of the Sun and the inferior occidental, yet, why is Venus' exaltation directly oriental to the Sun's and Jupiter's occidental? Unless perhaps we accept that many different schools of thought and concepts have been contributed that aren't all based on math and aren't necessarily in harmony, but accepted none the less because their validity is considered proven and reasonable.

Quote:
Astrology is mathematical because astrology is a design, and it's against the natural laws of the abstract for it to be disorganized.
??? No, "abstract" actually and almost literally means that something can be disorganized or that the logic in something goes beyond simple explanation, and just because I think affinity is more important than orbit placement doesn't mean I don't look for organization, I think that when each sign has a psychologically fitting ruler than you in fact do have order, it doesn't make sense to me to assign a planet to a sign if they have too many obvious and fundamental differences.

Also, astrology isn't design subject to the wishes of mankind, it's a work of nature itself and nature is often disorganized. For example we used to think that in the formation of planetary systems terrestrials always formed near the star, gaseous planets beyond those and remaining matter, comets and such far away from the star as this is generally what we have in our star system, but we've found things that are very different than what we're used to. Also, it has been said that our Solar system at one point early in its history might've had many more planets than it did now, possibly even more than 20 terrestrials a collision of one with Earth is theorized to have given us our Moon, but lost them due to collisions and the slingshot effect, this again suggests that astronomy's complexity isn't compatible with a theoretically ideal and organized astrological model.

Quote:
Math is abstract, it can't ever change design and there aren't exceptions to the rule.
O RLY?

You're definitely a Virgo alright, but I'm afraid we can't be perfectionistic about the unchangeable irregularities of the universe. -shrug-
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...Of the 2700 astronomers attending the conference (out of some 10,000 professionals worldwide), less than 500 actually voted on the resolution, which was put to the assembly on the last day of the conference. Not much of a consensus.
"

-Rob Tillett on the 2006 IAU General Assembly and the precedent to declare Pluto a "Dwarf Planet"


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Unread 06-14-2010, 01:11 AM
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Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

Quote:
Carl stated in his course: "The ancients assigned the planets in exact accordance with the planets mean distance from the earth. Mercury, Venus and Mars can be nearer to the earth than the Sun, but when we consider averaged distance, the Sun is closer over time."
WRONG. The ancients didn't know what we now know about astronomy, they thought the Earth was a flat land that the whole universe revolved around. They didn't know the planets were large spheroids, they thought they were just moving points of lights and they thought the order went Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn in order of maximum speed, this was how they came to conclude distance and they though these orbits were around the EARTH, not the Sun, in fact their orbit system made Mercury closer to Earth than Venus or Mars, but again it was about who had the highest to lowest speed.

Quote:
Experience leaves no doubt but that it [Mars] is the planet of sex
I slightly disagree, at least that Mars alone is, for instance Venus has been connected to sex as well for one, though I don't think it's really the prime/basic function of either of them, though definitely important and I definitely see Pluto having involvement with sex. IMO I see it like this: Venus: Attraction, Mars: Sex, Pluto: Orgasm.

Quote:
Carl Payne Tobey... wrote extensively on this debate. From his small booklet, Pluto and its Principals (1954), he laid out the characteristic differences between Mars and Pluto. "Mars and Pluto relate to love and certain herd instincts. Mars relates to that love we find in the sex passion. It enables a species to blindly procreate, while Pluto is that protective love that a parent has for a child. There is individualism to Pluto which cannot be associated with Mars. Plutonian thought is in terms of ME and MINE. Plutonian loyalty is toward that which is MINE; my child; my idea; my country. Both Mars and Pluto contain jealousy, but it is not the same type of jealousy. Pluto will be jealous if your child has more than his child. Mars will be jealous if you love another. The reaction of Mars is passionate and instantaneous. The reaction of Pluto is slow and determined, but both may be violent in the end. Mars may kill in fury, but Pluto kills in cold blood. Will-power and self control are characteristics of Pluto, while Mars is devoid of these qualities."
Quote:
All acts [of violence committed by the Pluto in Scorpio generation] have been planned, premeditated and executed in a cold-blooded manner with militaristic styling (Aries)
A bleak reality of our generation, but in a paragraph above these are described as Plutonian, the author needs to get their story straight.

Quote:
A well-aspected Mars gives a person who can exercise authority wisely, and a person who can get along with whomsoever is in authority. There is good control.
This is very contrary from how Mars was just described, isn't it? This is because Mars is here being described as being positively influenced by other planets (aspects), not Mars on his own.

Quote:
Aries is strongly associated with sports, horse racing, athletic ability, competitiveness and it rules the head.
Ok, it's a free world and the author can believe and make the assertions they want, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't believe that, but for thousands of years, MARS has been considered physically active and in connection with the head and "hot-headedness".

Quote:
Scorpio war-like qualities are more about domestic violence and family disputes.
Some might say that's a Cancer/House IV issue..

Quote:
The Holocaust was a Pluto-Aries event.
Actually that happened under Pluto in Gemini or Cancer.

The author also hasn't considered house equivalents, if you do believe in the modern ones after all of sign-house. Pluto is said to be deathly, I even see him as somewhat Saturn-like and as well as determined, scheming, greedy. It makes sense to me that he should be paired with the 8th house with is called the house of joint money, inheritances and stuff, how could Mars fit that?

I'll be back later to poke more holes in opinions that I don't accept later.
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"
...Of the 2700 astronomers attending the conference (out of some 10,000 professionals worldwide), less than 500 actually voted on the resolution, which was put to the assembly on the last day of the conference. Not much of a consensus.
"

-Rob Tillett on the 2006 IAU General Assembly and the precedent to declare Pluto a "Dwarf Planet"


This user (birth chart) knows everything! At least, that's what his mother keeps saying...

Last edited by Pallas-trine-Mars; 06-20-2010 at 07:47 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 06-11-2012, 10:36 PM
nbennett nbennett is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 26
Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

Regarding Pluto as the ruler of Aries.

I wrote an updated article on this subject on my website, LearnAstrologyNow.com. I'm a former student of Carl Payne Tobey and I have kept his publications in print for followers and new students.
It has been my experience for over 40+years that Pluto is ruled by Aries and Mars with Scorpio. Unlike the writer above, it is very clear from my research of ancient history that Egyptian astrologers/astronomers were very clear and knew of average mean distance from the Sun. I have documentation of this fact. Read my article and I have documented my research on my DVD course on Sacred Geometry of Astrology. Naomi Bennett
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  #11  
Unread 06-19-2012, 06:36 AM
Bjorkstrand Bjorkstrand is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 439
Re: Pluto and What Lies Beyond

This is what lies beyond Pluto + plutinos

Jim

HORMONE LAYER
NUMBER NAME PERIOD OP C H MEANING
YR # #
(119951) 2002 KX14 (243)08 1 4.5 WORK?
(120348) 2004 TY364(244)06 1 4.3 ORDER?
(175113) 2004 PF115(245)07 1 4.2 ?
2003 UZ413(245)10 1 4.3 LIGHTNING
(144897) 2004 UX10 (245)15 1 4.5
(90482) Orcus (245)15 1 2.3 DEATH
(84922) 2003 VS2 (247)08 1 4.2 SURRENDER
(208996) 2003 AZ84 (247)07 1 3.8 FANATIC
(38628) Huya (247)07 1 4.7 NASTY?
2007 JH43 (249)07 1 4.7 ?
(28978) Ixion (250)12 1 3.2 TO DIE FOR
(134340) Pluto (251)78 1 -0.7 POWER & SEX

(145452) 2005 RN43 (267)13 21 3.9 DOCTOR
2008 AP129(270)06 22 4.5 ?
2002 MS4 (270)12 22 3.7 JOKER
(24835) 1995 SM55 (273)10 24 4.8 LOVE
(90568) 2004 GV9 (274)06 24 4.0 CREATION
(120347) Salacia (275)11 25 4.3 MEDIA

(55637) 2002 UX25 (281)09 31 3.6 ORDER
(145453) 2005 RR43 (282)07 31 4.0 NERVE
(120178) 2003 OP32 (283)06 32 4.1 OPTIC
(55636) 2002 TX300(284)07 35 3.3 AUDIO
(20000) Varuna (284)13 36 3.6 MATERIALISM
(50000) Quaoar (285)16 33 2.5 EUREKA
(202421) 2005 UQ513(285)09 37 3.4 E CONDUCTOR
(136108) Haumea (285)12 37 0.2 SYNAPSE(IQ)
(19308) 1996TO66 (287)09 37 4.5
2004 NT33 (289)11 37 4.4 DNA?

2009 YE7 (297)03 4 4.4 FACEBOOK
(174567) 2003 MW12 (309)12 4 3.4 LOVE
(136472) Makemake (309)09 4 -0.3 OPTIMISM
(19521) Chaos (309)11 4 4.8 EXTREME?
2010 KZ39 (310)02 4 3.9 ?

2010 FX86 (318)02 5 4.3 SMARTS
(230965) 2004 XA192(321)04 5 4.0 PEOPLE
(55565) 2002 AW197(327)07 5 3.3 MUSIC
(278361) 2007 JJ43 (332)05 5 3.2 SOUND
2003 QX113(349)06 5 4.7 ?
2010 RF43 (354)02 5 4.2 REFLEXOLOGY
(42301) 2001 UR163(368)06 5 4.2 IQ

(84522) 2002 TC302(410)06 6 3.9 LIGHT
2004 XR190(438)05 6 4.4 FAITH

2010 RE64 (510)02 7 4.3 REINCARNATION?
(225088)2007 OR10 (553)06 7 1.9 FEAR OF DEATH
2006 QH181(557)02 7 3.8 PARANOIA
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