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  #1  
Unread 06-10-2016, 09:51 AM
Rik Rik is offline
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Question about Orbs

Hy,

I had a question with regards to orbs in my mind,so here it is:

If a conjunction (as an example),is activated up to 10°,does that mean that when 2 planets are 10°01' away from each other,the conjunction does not count anymore?
Or does it goes up to 10°59' and only after 11° the planets aren't aspecting each other?
I know there are exceptions with the Moon or the Sun,but if we put that away,what is the rule?

Rik

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Unread 06-10-2016, 10:00 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik View Post
Hy,

I had a question with regards to orbs in my mind,so here it is:

If a conjunction (as an example),is activated up to 10°,
does that mean that when 2 planets are 10°01' away from each other,
the conjunction does not count anymore?
Or does it goes up to 10°59' and only after 11° the planets aren't aspecting each other?
I know there are exceptions with the Moon or the Sun,
but if we put that away,what is the rule?

Rik

No need to "put away" Sun and Moon
TABLE TO SHOW ORBS FOR ASPECTUAL CONTACT is a free study aid
illustrates aspectual contact that includes Sun, Moon, planets
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspectorbs.html
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  #3  
Unread 06-10-2016, 10:45 AM
Rik Rik is offline
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
No need to "put away" Sun and Moon
TABLE TO SHOW ORBS FOR ASPECTUAL CONTACT is a free study aid
illustrates aspectual contact that includes Sun, Moon, planets
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspectorbs.html
Nice,thank you very much

Rik
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Unread 06-10-2016, 10:51 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

And how his it with asteroids?

If my Ceres is at 0°42' Aquarius and my Venus at 6°19' Sag,what do you think,are they stil sextile?

Because the sextile orb I know is 5°7',that's why I'm asking.

Or do they count as outer because if yes,than that is 6°3,obviously

Last edited by Rik; 06-10-2016 at 10:56 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 06-10-2016, 11:25 AM
TheIndianVenusian TheIndianVenusian is offline
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Re: Question about Orbs

For asteroids,most people take a tight orb and consider conjunctions and oppositions more important than trines, sextiles and squares! At least this is what I've read in various forums
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Unread 06-10-2016, 11:51 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by TheIndianVenusian View Post
For asteroids,most people take a tight orb and consider conjunctions and oppositions more important than trines, sextiles and squares! At least this is what I've read in various forums
I've read that too,,but I don't really believe in that.

Conjunctions are always going to be harder/stronger than trines or sextiles,that's just a fact,but I checked many of my asteroid aspects to pretty much everything that it aspected and I only used wide/normal orbs.In synastry as an example,my Juno at 28° conjuncts somebodys Leo ascendant at 22° and the description to this aspect was 100% accurate. Same with the Venus-Ceres one here (natal).

But that's just my experience and opinion.
Rik.
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Unread 06-10-2016, 03:03 PM
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Re: Question about Orbs

Different astrologers make different allowances for orbs. I would:

1. Allow 5-7 degrees for a planet making a major aspect, 10 degrees for a luminary making a major aspect.

2. Allow 1-2 degrees at most for a planet or luminary making a minor aspect, such as a quintile, septile, novile, quincunx, semi-square, or sesqui-square.

3. Asteroids, chart angles, midpoints, Arabian parts, black moon Lilith, &c cast no orb. You can use a close orb of a planet or luminary conjunct one of them, but I would use only the conjunction. Midpoints should be pretty spot-on. (Note that each planetary pair has two midpoints, however: a near one and a far one.) Otherwise you can just make a chart mean anything you want.

4. Where you see a stellium in a sign or house, you can relax the orb slightly if the near and far planets are technically out of orb, because the planet/s in the middle act as a kind of bridge, notably via midpoints.

It might help to think of orbs like the volume on a radio. A close conjunction is so loud you cannot ignore it. But by the time the planets are 11 or 12 degrees out, the sound is so faint that other sounds in the room will be louder and more worthy of your attention.
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  #8  
Unread 06-10-2016, 04:14 PM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Different astrologers make different allowances for orbs. I would:

1. Allow 5-7 degrees for a planet making a major aspect, 10 degrees for a luminary making a major aspect.

2. Allow 1-2 degrees at most for a planet or luminary making a minor aspect, such as a quintile, septile, novile, quincunx, semi-square, or sesqui-square.

3. Asteroids, chart angles, midpoints, Arabian parts, black moon Lilith, &c cast no orb. You can use a close orb of a planet or luminary conjunct one of them, but I would use only the conjunction. Midpoints should be pretty spot-on. (Note that each planetary pair has two midpoints, however: a near one and a far one.) Otherwise you can just make a chart mean anything you want.

4. Where you see a stellium in a sign or house, you can relax the orb slightly if the near and far planets are technically out of orb, because the planet/s in the middle act as a kind of bridge, notably via midpoints.

It might help to think of orbs like the volume on a radio. A close conjunction is so loud you cannot ignore it. But by the time the planets are 11 or 12 degrees out, the sound is so faint that other sounds in the room will be louder and more worthy of your attention.
Well I do have a stellium of 4 in Sagittarius and if we count Chiron too,than 5. (All within 30° of course)

My Ceres is in Aquarius and my Venus is my first planet in the Stellium so this is a perfect example,thank you very much.
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  #9  
Unread 06-10-2016, 06:59 PM
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Re: Question about Orbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik View Post
Hy,

I had a question with regards to orbs in my mind,so here it is:

If a conjunction (as an example),is activated up to 10°,does that mean that when 2 planets are 10°01' away from each other,the conjunction does not count anymore?
Or does it goes up to 10°59' and only after 11° the planets aren't aspecting each other?
I know there are exceptions with the Moon or the Sun,but if we put that away,what is the rule?

Rik
After lots of thinking, I like to think of orbs as determining how strong the aspect is. So a conjunct just barely over 10 degrees doesn't make it completely not a conjunction anymore; it probably just makes it very dull. The smaller the orb, the more apparent the aspect it.
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Unread 06-11-2016, 12:37 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
After lots of thinking, I like to think of orbs as determining how strong the aspect is. So a conjunct just barely over 10 degrees doesn't make it completely not a conjunction anymore; it probably just makes it very dull. The smaller the orb, the more apparent the aspect it.
Hmm,this sh*t makes sense!
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Unread 06-11-2016, 12:44 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

If we are discussing asteroids now,than i will post this question here because nobody answered my original post,so:

What does it mean when my Nessus Is in conjunction with somebodys Vertex? The whole thing is tighter than 5° and in Capricorn.My Nessus is in the 10th House (ruled by capricorn in my chart,and my Nessus isn't conjuncting my MC) and her vertex is in her 5th house ruled by Sagittarius.Her Anti-vertex is conjuncting my Jupiter tho.

Rik
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Unread 06-11-2016, 12:49 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik View Post
If we are discussing asteroids now,than i will post this question here because nobody answered my original post,so:

What does it mean when my Nessus Is in conjunction with somebodys Vertex? The whole thing is tighter than 5° and in Capricorn.My Nessus is in the 10th House (ruled by capricorn in my chart,and my Nessus isn't conjuncting my MC) and her vertex is in her 5th house ruled by Sagittarius.Her Anti-vertex is conjuncting my Jupiter tho.

Rik
Hmm.. I'd say any aspect involving astroids needs to have an orb of 2 degrees or less. That's just what I think.
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Unread 06-11-2016, 12:56 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Hmm.. I'd say any aspect involving astroids needs to have an orb of 2 degrees or less. That's just what I think.
And if we go with the theory that it shouldn't?
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Unread 06-11-2016, 01:04 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by Rik View Post
And if we go with the theory that it shouldn't?
The vertex isn't really that prominent or important from what I've seen in astrology because it's debatable about what it actually is. So even if your nessus is affecting her vertex, I don't think that would really mean much. If your nessus conjuncted her sun or moon then that would be a huge significator of abuse or whatever nessus represents.

But if you think nessus is important with jupiter and all then you're probably prone to abuse her because that's what nessus is when it's touching something important in another persons chart.
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Unread 06-11-2016, 01:07 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by Rik View Post

And if we go with the theory that it shouldn't?
Then we simply choose our own orbs
because everyone is entitled to their own opinion

some astrologers favor orbs of two degrees
while others favor five, seven, ten degrees or more
is entirely a matter of individual choice
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Unread 06-11-2016, 02:15 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by Rik View Post
Hy,

I had a question with regards to orbs in my mind,so here it is:

If a conjunction (as an example),is activated up to 10°,does that mean that when 2 planets are 10°01' away from each other,the conjunction does not count anymore?
Or does it goes up to 10°59' and only after 11° the planets aren't aspecting each other?
I know there are exceptions with the Moon or the Sun,but if we put that away,what is the rule?

Rik
If there is an intermediary planet in aspect to the two planets' with wider orb of conjunction - it offers itself as a shrinker of orb and it can take on a lot of power and energy position between the the more distantly conjunct planets, but it brings them together in more intense recognition of each other through the 3rd party.

The conjunct planets will find strength, belonging or wrenching, from the intermediary planet which links both through it's joint aspect to them.

Example

I have Sun at 5'52 Aquarius , and Mercury 19'24 Aquarius - a 13 degree distance, both in 7th house. By themselves, they have no connective aspect.

However - Neptune is 11'14 Scorpio, squaring both Sun and Merc. There has to be recognition of each other through Neptune's relationship to the two.

Example:

Joey knows a guy from the same neighborhood who knows a guy from the same neighborhood but Joey doesn't know the third guy too well, but Joey's guy introduced Joey to the other guy and now the three of them always hang out together in the neighborhood.

The variable of the relation can be positive or negative, but they will certainly know each other through the intermediary.
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Unread 06-11-2016, 02:57 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
If there is an intermediary planet in aspect to the two planets' with wider orb of conjunction - it offers itself as a shrinker of orb and it can take on a lot of power and energy position between the the more distantly conjunct planets, but it brings them together in more intense recognition of each other through the 3rd party.

The conjunct planets will find strength, belonging or wrenching, from the intermediary planet which links both through it's joint aspect to them.

Example

I have Sun at 5'52 Aquarius , and Mercury 19'24 Aquarius - a 13 degree distance, both in 7th house. By themselves, they have no connective aspect.

However - Neptune is 11'14 Scorpio, squaring both Sun and Merc. There has to be recognition of each other through Neptune's relationship to the two.

Example:

Joey knows a guy from the same neighborhood who knows a guy from the same neighborhood but Joey doesn't know the third guy too well, but Joey's guy introduced Joey to the other guy and now the three of them always hang out together in the neighborhood.

The variable of the relation can be positive or negative, but they will certainly know each other through the intermediary.
Thanks Joey.
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Unread 06-11-2016, 03:01 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
The vertex isn't really that prominent or important from what I've seen in astrology because it's debatable about what it actually is. So even if your nessus is affecting her vertex, I don't think that would really mean much. If your nessus conjuncted her sun or moon then that would be a huge significator of abuse or whatever nessus represents.

But if you think nessus is important with jupiter and all then you're probably prone to abuse her because that's what nessus is when it's touching something important in another persons chart.
Lol what,my Nessus ain't touching her sh*t! Only her Anti-vertex is conjuncting MY Jupiter...
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Unread 06-11-2016, 03:01 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

Why do you wonder about this orb difference? Is it for mundane or relation or natal astrology questions?
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Unread 06-11-2016, 03:44 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
Why do you wonder about this orb difference? Is it for mundane or relation or natal astrology questions?
Just In general.I could probably crawl and then hide behind my mercury-uranus aspect but rather not.
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Unread 06-11-2016, 04:02 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by Rik View Post
If we are discussing asteroids now,than i will post this question here because nobody answered my original post,so:

What does it mean when my Nessus Is in conjunction with somebodys Vertex? The whole thing is tighter than 5° and in Capricorn.My Nessus is in the 10th House (ruled by capricorn in my chart,and my Nessus isn't conjuncting my MC) and her vertex is in her 5th house ruled by Sagittarius.Her Anti-vertex is conjuncting my Jupiter tho.

Rik
One of the best ways to answer questions like this, about lesser known asteroids, and questions about orb strength, is by YOU observing your interactions and interplay in this relationship. Then YOU can come back and tell us what you observed.
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Unread 06-13-2016, 02:34 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
If there is an intermediary planet in aspect to the two planets' with wider orb of conjunction - it offers itself as a shrinker of orb and it can take on a lot of power and energy position between the the more distantly conjunct planets, but it brings them together in more intense recognition of each other through the 3rd party.

The conjunct planets will find strength, belonging or wrenching, from the intermediary planet which links both through it's joint aspect to them.

Example

I have Sun at 5'52 Aquarius , and Mercury 19'24 Aquarius - a 13 degree distance, both in 7th house. By themselves, they have no connective aspect.

However - Neptune is 11'14 Scorpio, squaring both Sun and Merc. There has to be recognition of each other through Neptune's relationship to the two.

Example:

Joey knows a guy from the same neighborhood who knows a guy from the same neighborhood but Joey doesn't know the third guy too well, but Joey's guy introduced Joey to the other guy and now the three of them always hang out together in the neighborhood.

The variable of the relation can be positive or negative, but they will certainly know each other through the intermediary.
Not to hijack OP's thread, but...interesting. I have a triple conjunction of Mars-Sun-Venus, where both Sun and Venus are squared by Pluto, but because the orb between Mars and Sun is 8 degrees, Mars is too far out to be properly squared by Pluto (orb stretches to 9 degrees). However, I've wondered whether Mars is still receiving a bit of Pluto just because the other two planets it's connected with are being challenged by Pluto. Something to consider, I suppose.

Anyway, OP, if it's a luminary I'd still count an orb of 10.59 as a conjunction, just a wide one. Its effects may be more in the background or experienced less frequently/intensely than if it were tighter.
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  #23  
Unread 06-14-2016, 08:54 PM
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Re: Question about Orbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik View Post
If we are discussing asteroids now,than i will post this question here because nobody answered my original post,so:

What does it mean when my Nessus Is in conjunction with somebodys Vertex? The whole thing is tighter than 5° and in Capricorn.My Nessus is in the 10th House (ruled by capricorn in my chart,and my Nessus isn't conjuncting my MC) and her vertex is in her 5th house ruled by Sagittarius.Her Anti-vertex is conjuncting my Jupiter tho.

Rik
Rik, this whole business can get pretty crazy-making. We need to avoid turning asteroids and lesser-used sensitive points into so much space junk. The astrological operation of the centaurs like Nessus isn't well known, but their orbits are very long, so whatever meaning they possess is probably more generational than individual. They can't cast much of an orb. They're not planets, for the most part. The vertex casts no orb whatsoever, because it and the anti-vertex are comparable to your AC/DC axis.

A 5 degree orb would seem too wide for a centaur-vertex combo in synastry. Again, allow maybe a degree for an asteroid conjunction, and no orb for a sensitive point that is not an actual heavenly body. When you have an actual planet involved in a synastry conjunction, then I think 5 degrees is OK because you're looking at the planet's orb.
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Last edited by waybread; 06-14-2016 at 08:56 PM.
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Unread 06-15-2016, 05:00 AM
Rik Rik is offline
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Rik, this whole business can get pretty crazy-making. We need to avoid turning asteroids and lesser-used sensitive points into so much space junk. The astrological operation of the centaurs like Nessus isn't well known, but their orbits are very long, so whatever meaning they possess is probably more generational than individual. They can't cast much of an orb. They're not planets, for the most part. The vertex casts no orb whatsoever, because it and the anti-vertex are comparable to your AC/DC axis.

A 5 degree orb would seem too wide for a centaur-vertex combo in synastry. Again, allow maybe a degree for an asteroid conjunction, and no orb for a sensitive point that is not an actual heavenly body. When you have an actual planet involved in a synastry conjunction, then I think 5 degrees is OK because you're looking at the planet's orb.
They're actually 2° something away from each other,but that's still more than double so thank you.

Rik
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Unread 06-16-2016, 12:13 AM
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Re: Question about Orbs

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Rik, this whole business can get pretty crazy-making. We need to avoid turning asteroids and lesser-used sensitive points into so much space junk. The astrological operation of the centaurs like Nessus isn't well known, but their orbits are very long, so whatever meaning they possess is probably more generational than individual. They can't cast much of an orb. They're not planets, for the most part. The vertex casts no orb whatsoever, because it and the anti-vertex are comparable to your AC/DC axis.

A 5 degree orb would seem too wide for a centaur-vertex combo in synastry. Again, allow maybe a degree for an asteroid conjunction, and no orb for a sensitive point that is not an actual heavenly body. When you have an actual planet involved in a synastry conjunction, then I think 5 degrees is OK because you're looking at the planet's orb.
Hey waybread,I found a (for me) little bit confusing aspect in a friends and his gfs chart.
Her Nessus is square his Uranus.
But,the question is,what orb would you use here?
Because with an orb of 2° it's a square,but with 1,5° not anymore.
And if it's actually a square,how would this affect both of them?
Do you need any information about the planet positions,like Sign,House etc.?
If yes,than just tell me.

Rik
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