Clarifying Significator Dignity and Reception

tsmall

Premium Member
Well, let's not make it dramatic.
It clearly shows an interest, talking about values in this particular case, it might suggest that Sun sees Saturn as a value for him.

Sometimes looking at another extreme (or being dramatic) can illustrate why it is important to be clear about what reception does and does not show. If the Sun is debilitated, or peregrine, or both, then obviously it requires something from its despositors, so sure Sun would see Saturn as a value for him. But what if it were Sun in Libra opposing Saturn in Aries?
 

Dirius

Well-known member
No need to apologize, it was entirely mine. :lol:
I know that many authors disregard triplicity.
This is why I find it hard to abide to one opinion, since opinions on receptions are so different.
I recently saw some topics on another forums about this particular case - a sig in the exaltation of the other sig - opinions were similar:
sig A in sig's B exaltation - sig A is so interested in sig B to the point of idealizing it - which in the real life situation it was true, btw.

Yes in relationship questions (at least in my opinion) it is pretty straightfoward:

L7 exalts L1 = quesited likes querent a lot.

But as I love to say, it all depends on the context. If the question was:

"does he love me?" this interpretation if fairly solid.

"is he tired of me?" it could have another type of interpreation, regarding the actual situation, in which the exaltation implies he feels controlled by you, and that you take too much space in his life.*

*although I must say, even in this 2nd example, I would personally take exaltation as him loving you anyway....the context of the question would have to make sense for me to think the exaltation means control, as in divorced spouses in which the quesited is financially dependant on querent, or something like that.

But as I said, in my opinion, it is about the context of the question, which is not always the same.
 

heidy26

Well-known member
Sometimes looking at another extreme (or being dramatic) can illustrate why it is important to be clear about what reception does and does not show. If the Sun is debilitated, or peregrine, or both, then obviously it requires something from its despositors, so sure Sun would see Saturn as a value for him. But what if it were Sun in Libra opposing Saturn in Aries?

There is mutual interest, but the encounter here is to show a symbolic parting of the ways.
it can also mean regret and that it's time to conclude things, so as a general conclusion it can mean a mutual interest in breaking apart, or that the matter will be perfected, but it won't be good, or rather that it will be destroyed after being perfected.

That depends on the type of the chart, the question, other clues and so on.
 

heidy26

Well-known member
Yes in relationship questions (at least in my opinion) it is pretty straightfoward:

L7 exalts L1 = quesited likes querent a lot.

But as I love to say, it all depends on the context. If the question was:

"does he love me?" this interpretation if fairly solid.

"is he tired of me?" it could have another type of interpreation, regarding the actual situation, in which the exaltation implies he feels controlled by you, and that you take too much space in his life.*

*although I must say, even in this 2nd example, I would personally take exaltation as him loving you anyway....the context of the question would have to make sense for me to think the exaltation means control, as in divorced spouses in which the quesited is financially dependant on querent, or something like that.

But as I said, in my opinion, it is about the context of the question, which is not always the same.

Well... looking back on the discussion, I don't think everyone agrees about this and that is rather debatable.
I do think this is applicable for career charts as well and I remember a thread about

L1 in h7 or L7 in h1 - that if this is the case, then the planet that receives the other sig is the one interested, in fact, but as I said above:
Well, of course if L1 is in h7 he is very much into L7. You cannot say he is not interested because he is in detriment, but rather he is weakened by the power L7 has over him.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
But I do understand why tsmall mentions the "A exalts B" implication. She is correct when noting that it is not the most proper way of describing it, given the implication of the Sun "loving" Saturn it may carry, which is not apropiate for every chart, and in many cases may lead to a wrong interpretation.

But it was just a manner of speaking on my part. I do agree with her though.

:lol:
 

waybread

Well-known member
I don't much like the example, tsmall, because if those predictions consistently worked, actuarial scientists would be using them.

So here is a comparable mystery chart that I worked on in December 2013. I know the outcome.

The querent's brother had been diagnosed with stage-4 colon cancer, which is normally fatal within a few years (as it later proved to be.) The querent's doctor ordered a colonoscopy, because colon cancer tends to run in families. The querent was understandably apprehensive. The question: "What will be the results of the colonoscopy exam?"

I note that the 8th not only rules death, but also the colon. The question was not actually "Do I have terminal colon cancer?" although that would be one possible finding of the procedure and answer to the question. Mercury in the 8th combust and adjacent Pluto, with Saturn in the 6th house of illness might give this conclusion. I don't honestly know what the house would be for a colonoscopy as a type of physical exam, although a written test in a classroom would be a third house matter.
Cancer as an illness is generally pegged to the part of the body affected, but more generally it is ruled by the sign of Cancer.

Looking just at essential dignity:

1. Mercury (querent) in Capricorn is in its own terms.

2. Saturn (dispositor) has no essential dignity of its own, but is in Venus's terms.

3. Moon (querent's stake in the matter) is out-of-sect, in mutual reception with Jupiter. Jupiter is exalted.

4. Mars (disposits Saturn by sign) falls in Libra, and has no essential dignity. Venus (disposits Mars by sign and Saturn by house cusp) is in her own triplicity and in Saturn's terms, but out-of-sect.

Obviously there's more to be done with aspects, house, retrogrades, and whosey-whatsits, but see what you can do with the essential dignities, as I think the kernel of the answer is there.

I note that the moon is VOC, yet there was a doctor's report with an answer to the question.
 

Attachments

  • colonoscopy horary.jpg
    colonoscopy horary.jpg
    162.1 KB · Views: 21
Last edited:

byjove

Account Closed
Heidy26, thanks so much for responding! I've been waiting a long time for some help! Finally I can look back at some charts and make sense! :lol:
 

heidy26

Well-known member
Byjove, I am so glad. I also clarified some other things on my mind, but as pointed out, this does depend on the other details of the chart.:joyful:
Dirius keeps confusing me. :tongue:
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Heidy, I was not attacking you and I did not see your edit. I can't control your reactions, obviously, but that's the deal.

Why 'exalting' things can be bad: Saturn's in Sag, sun in Libra, yes? Saturn is obligated to provide for the sun as best he can - but he really can't, the people are poles apart in needs and wants, which we see from the sun being detrimented.

The sun is not comfortable in Libra, and as a rule sun and Saturn aren't planetary friends. But if it's a day chart, then Saturn is in sun's triplicity and we'll assume that Saturn and sun are sextile, which is going to ease things a bit.

It's not about like, love, adore, exalt, or even hate. Can a relationship happen with these planets? Yes, but you can't gauge interest by looking at those positions, it just doesn't work. If the sun happens to be in 7, then we'll assume that the sun is more keen, and since sun is the applying planet, that can show more desire as well. Sun's not exalting anything. Just going with the Libra-Sag positions, it could be that Saturn feels obligated for whatever reason to provide/do something for sun. Not saying it is, but it certainly can be. With only the sign positions, that's a possibility.

It's the aspect (and the moon) that shows you if anything is likely to happen. If, say, Saturn is at 14 Sag, and sun is at 22 Libra, nothing's going to happen, the moment has passed. Other way round, it's possible, especially if the moon is being helpful.

Frawley's got it back to front, and when people adopt his terminology (loves, exalts, what have you) then they start talking it back to front as well.

Ideally, you want to see the quesited receiving the querent, as the querent will have less work to do to bring about the desired outcome. Sometimes this can be preferable to mutual reception. In horary it can be a bit different, but in the normal course of things you do not want your planet receiving a malefic - if it does, it's pretty much giving the malefic free reign to do what it wants.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
I agree with tsmall that the concept of "A exalts B" is not the best way to describe it, because it may not apply "well" for every charts (mostly those that are not relationship charts), and might create confusion for some inexperienced astrologers if they read the post.

But since most of us involved in the topic do have some astrological knowledge, saying "A exalts B" or saying "B recieves A in its exaltation" is irrelevant, given that everyone understands what is being said.

To me "A exalts B" is just faster to type. :innocent:

:lol::lol::lol:
 

heidy26

Well-known member
Oddity, please see my reply, I just added info on the actual chart.
Sun is in 9 Libra, Saturn in 1 Sag conjuncting MC. Mercury is at 4 Libra, rx, separating from Sun and applying to Saturn.

Moon separates from opp to Saturn and trine to Sun and Mercury, will soon apply to a square to Venus in Leo.
 

heidy26

Well-known member
I agree with tsmall that the concept of "A exalts B" is not the best way to describe it, because it may not apply "well" for every charts (mostly those that are not relationship charts), and might create confusion for some inexperienced astrologers if they read the post.

But since most of us involved in the topic do have some astrological knowledge, saying "A exalts B" or saying "B recieves A in its exaltation" is irrelevant, given that everyone understands what is being said.

To me "A exalts B" is just faster to type. :innocent:

:lol::lol::lol:
Now that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying, this is useful for others too. :joyful:
 

Oddity

Well-known member
I agree with tsmall that the concept of "A exalts B" is not the best way to describe it, because it may not apply "well" for every charts (mostly those that are not relationship charts), and might create confusion for some inexperienced astrologers if they read the post.

But since most of us involved in the topic do have some astrological knowledge, saying "A exalts B" or saying "B recieves A in its exaltation" is irrelevant, given that everyone understands what is being said.

To me "A exalts B" is just faster to type. :innocent:

:lol::lol::lol:

'A is in B's exaltation' is really, really more correct, and I don't think it's just my editor's disease kicking in here. I think it may be that saying something is 'exalting' something gives the impression that something good is going on. When L1 receives L8, something very NOT nice is going on.

Is 'L1 receives L8' that much harder to type? I know you know what you're doing, Dirius, but I just see this whole 'exalt/loves' thing leading to us becoming as obscure as Lilly is when he's describing, say, Planet A aspecting Planet B that's in Planet A's decensions.

Let's not do that to anyone who might read us!
 

Dirius

Well-known member
'A is in B's exaltation' is really, really more correct, and I don't think it's just my editor's disease kicking in here. I think it may be that saying something is 'exalting' something gives the impression that something good is going on. When L1 receives L8, something very NOT nice is going on.

Is 'L1 receives L8' that much harder to type? I know you know what you're doing, Dirius, but I just see this whole 'exalt/loves' thing leading to us becoming as obscure as Lilly is when he's describing, say, Planet A aspecting Planet B that's in Planet A's decensions.

Let's not do that to anyone who might read us!

Yes I suppose so. Ok "A is in B's exaltation" should be the proper astrological correct term then :lol:
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Dirius - L7 receives L1. Saturn receives sun.

Is it that much more difficult? Now it IS my editor's disease kicking in, but this stuff can get so twisty, and doncha love it when you later read 'but Dirius said it means they're madly in love' when you meant the exact opposite, and the horary involves people going to the law court over who gets custody of the microwave because they hate each other so much in the messiest divorce ever?
 

Dirius

Well-known member
Dirius - L7 receives L1. Saturn receives sun.

Is it that much more difficult? Now it IS my editor's disease kicking in, but this stuff can get so twisty, and doncha love it when you later read 'but Dirius said it means they're madly in love' when you meant the exact opposite, and the horary involves people going to the law court over who gets custody of the microwave because they hate each other so much in the messiest divorce ever?

HAHA :kissing::lol:, the example actually made me lmao.

I get what you are saying. But no! I seriously dislike the word "receiving".

I usually misstype it. Thats mainly the reason :innocent::innocent::innocent:
 

Oddity

Well-known member
HAHA :kissing::lol:, the example actually made me lmao.

I get what you are saying. But no! I seriously dislike the word "receiving".

I usually misstype it. Thats mainly the reason :innocent::innocent::innocent:

Fair enough, but bad spelling doesn't seem to stop most people from posting.

On a personal note, and I may not be the only one, when I see someone saying 'A exalts B', I assume that they're doing Frawley style receptions, even though I probably shouldn't.
 
Top