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Unread 11-29-2014, 06:46 PM
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What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

I am seriously considering furthering my education in Astrology to the point where I am considered a Professional. There's no such thing as earning a degree in Astrology, so what makes someone a certified professional Astrologer and what makes someone an amateur?

What Astrology books can you recommend to me so I can cross the bridge from amateur to professional?

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Unread 11-29-2014, 06:50 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

The "do re mi", and that's all.

Now if you want to talk about competence, that's something else altogether.
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Unread 11-29-2014, 06:59 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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Originally Posted by Apartofme View Post

I am seriously considering furthering my education in Astrology
to the point where I am considered a Professional.
There's no such thing as earning a degree in Astrology,
so what makes someone a certified professional Astrologer and what makes someone an amateur?

What Astrology books can you recommend to me
so I can cross the bridge from amateur to professional?

A similar discussion on this topic http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=57956 with advice, recommendations, books and so on
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Unread 11-29-2014, 07:20 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

Hi. I think that there are different ways to define the difference between the terms amateur and professional in general. I assume from your post that you mean that you want to provide a service that is worth paying for.

I think with any helping profession, the attitude of the helper is as important as the specific knowledge associated with the type of helping. So a very important consideration is whether the astrologer can employ the basic people skills that we might associate with, say, a good client centred (ie Rogerian) counsellor. There are some books on astrological counselling, but perhaps its better to read some stuff specifically about counselling practise, and perhaps to even do a course on this.

In terms of astrology texts, there is so much good stuff out there. I would say that if you haven't already read these books, then they're all well worth a look:

ARROYO:

Astrology, Karma and Transformation

Astrology, Psychology and the 4 Elements

GREENE:

Everything she's written, especially CPA publications

MARKS:

The Astrology of Self-development

CUNNINGHAM:

Healing Pluto Problems

STONE:

Astrology, Karma and Relationships


Above all, reflect on what you read. Find the truth of it inside yourself. Make it your own. A fruitful chart reading is an intimate encounter between two people, not a regurgitation of supposed truths.
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Unread 11-29-2014, 08:26 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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What Astrology books can you recommend to me

so I can cross the bridge

from amateur

to professional?

AN INTRODUCTION TO TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY FOR TODAY by BENJAMIN DYKES http://www.bendykes.com/tafortoday.php
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Unread 11-29-2014, 08:33 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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There's no such thing as earning a degree in Astrology, so what makes someone a certified professional Astrologer and what makes someone an amateur?
Actually this is not true. Kepler College(an accredited college in the USA) offers a degree in Astrology. There is even a university in Britain that offers a PhD in it; Rob Hand and a number of others have one.

There are many colleges in India that offer a degree in Astrology.

In my mind, it is someone who has shown competency in a related field such as counseling, and has(at least in the USA) at least two professional degrees in some aspect related to counseling psychology. If in addition to that, the person also can point to training with astrologers who have some recognition. That helps. If the astrologer has a website, where s/he explains how astrology is performed, that helps. If the astrologer, appears knowledgeable, and does this by assisting you in certain areas to start, that helps.

Unless the astrologer is retired and is doing mostly pro-bono work, expect to pay $300 or more for an analysis. If they charge less than $100, they are using a computer program to generate it.

Expect the astrologer to ask you questions rather than simply give you a one-size fits all presentation. Expect more than a 15 minute phone conversation. If they are using a type of psychological astrology. Find out what the theoretical basis is, and if its a basis that no professional psychological counselor has used for years, be careful. For example, the psycho-analytic method went out about 30 years ago. Almost nobody in professional counseling uses it anymore since it has been proven repeatedly that insight does not produce behavior change.

PM me if you have more questions. I have been studying astrology for more than 50 years, and have all the qualifications that I have specified above, and more. But since I am retired I am not offering to assist you in your astrological needs, only in answering your questions.

These are my opinions. Others would differ with me, especially those without all the qualifications I have specified.

Last edited by Zarathu; 11-29-2014 at 08:52 PM.
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Unread 11-29-2014, 08:48 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

MA CULTURAL ASTRONOMY AND ASTRONOMY offered at the University of Wales http://www.uwtsd.ac.uk/ma-cultural-astronomy-astrology/

KEPLER COLLEGE offers
'Globally recognised astrological education'
'from Beginner to Professional'
http://www.kepler.edu/home/
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Unread 11-29-2014, 11:22 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

Kepler closed its' doors a couple of years ago, unless there has been some recent development as to the contrary that I am unaware of, they're gone... and good riddance, as far as I'm concerned as they were teaching the same old, mostly useless, mostly erroneous Astrology.

[deleted trolling comments on TraditionalAstrology by request - Moderator]

My advice is look to the writings of Dane Rudhyar. As most all Astrologers, up to and, until the time that Rudhyar finally got a little bit of the recognition and respect He was truly worthy of, practiced a form of astrological counseling that "emphasized the negative" because their erroneous belief that there are malevolent stellar bodies.

God {the "Creator", if you prefer} did not place in the "Heavens" anything that was deliberately created for the intent of being malevolent. Some people have the unfortunate circumstance of being laden with a lot of "bad Karma" from previous lifetimes and what they have created for themselves in the present one. Saturn, for example, which is also known to have been called "Chronos" in times of great antiquity ...and I mean very ancient as indicted by Vedic knowledge to be almost 15,000 years in the past during what is identified in the Vedas as the "Satya Yuga" when all of humankind was in full possession of of their intellectual and spiritual capacity... and "Chronos" is the "timekeeper", and like a timekeeper in businesses and factories, mostly of yesterday, Chronos hands out the paychecks for the work that you did. The only difference being that poor work, or bad work, is compensated accordingly.
The other Planets, and also the Luminaries, can have what seemingly are malevolent effects upon those that are being given back accordingly to what they have sown or misinterpret the spiritually righteous affects of the Stellar bodies as they are most supportive and beneficially endowing to those that live their lives in a spiritually evolutionary manner but can be perceived to be "stern and oppressive, even malevolent" to those that live their lives contrary to the desire and will of God. For the influences of all Astrological ephemeral activity will become "corrective and disciplinary" to those that follow an errant path or no path at all.

Dane it is said and was also written about...well... for example, in wikipedia: [all text found in wikipedia articles is not copyrighted and in the public domain unless otherwise noted by wiki.]"Dane Rudhyar....was an author, modernist composer and humanistic astrologer. He was the pioneer of modern transpersonal astrology. ... Rudhyar learned astrology during a period when he was also studying the psychological writings of Carl G. Jung, and he began to think in terms of bringing astrology and Jungian psychology together. Rudhyar also cites Jan Smut's book Holism and Evolution as an influence. The marriage between astrology and depth-psychology overcame some basic problems, including astrology's deterministic approach to life and the trouble of designating an agreeable agent to produce the astrological effects. Rudhyar postulated that the stars did not cause the effects seen in human life but were pictures synchronistically aligned to human beings. They detailed psychological forces working in individuals, but did not override human freedom in responding to those forces, he said. At first he called his new interpretation 'harmonic astrology' and as the ideas matured renamed it 'humanistic astrology,' the subject of his monumental volume, 'The Astrology of Personality', published in 1936. A friend, Theosophist Alice A. Bailey (the person who invented the term New Age), encouraged the development of his thought and published his book on her press, Lucis Publishing. His initial writings were regular articles in Paul Clancy's magazine American Astrology and Grant Lewi's Horoscope Magazine.

Over the next two decades Rudhyar continued to write and lecture on astrology, but while he was honored within the astrological community he was little known outside of it. It was not until the 1970s, as the New Age movement emerged, that major publishing houses discovered him and began to publish his writings: among the first was The Practice of Astrology, published in 1970 by Penguin Books.

In 1969 Rudhyar founded the International Committee for Humanistic Astrology, a small professional society that would work on the development of his perspective. He began one of the most fruitful periods of his life, turning out several books a year for the next decade. He began to absorb the insights of transpersonal astrology, which concentrated on exploring altered and exalted states of perception, and by the mid-1970s had moved beyond humanistic astrology to what he termed 'transpersonal astrology.' He also began to reflect upon the New Age movement and wrote several of the more sophisticated volumes on planetary consciousness and New Age philosophy.

Most of Rudhyar's more than forty books and hundreds of articles concern astrology and spirituality. The book that established his reputation in the astrological field was his first on the subject, The Astrology of Personality (1936). Arguing that astrology is not essentially predictive but rather productive of intuitive insights, The Astrology of Personality was one of the most influential tracts of 'free-will' astrology, despite being written in the dense, circuitous style that characterizes much of Rudhyar's writing."

What wikipedia fails to mention that Dane did study a great deal of Vedic knowledge and what developed into that known as the "Sanatan Dharm" {Hinduism to most "Westerners", coined as a term in an intended derogatory manner by the British as a generalization of the many different paths of yoga practiced by those that live accordingly in harmony with the Sanatan Dharm. As in India it is not viewed as a religion so much as it is understood and taken to be a way of life. Although wikipedia does mention that early in his adulthood He met Sasaki Roshi, one of the early Japanese Zen teachers in America, who led him in the study of Oriental philosophy and occultism which in turn lead to the study of the Vedas.
Wikipedia also doesn't mention that Danes's first published book on Astrology, r.e the aforementioned "The Astrology of Personality", is the only book on the subject of Astrology given the recognition of being one of the one hundred most influential and important books of the 20th century by the London Times in 1999 [or 2000 and it may have been the New York Times, or possibly both...my memory is a bit foggy as to exactly what year and which it was]

Also not mentioned is Dane's published book that He spent nearly 40 years at in trial and study to produce on His interpretation and summation of the 360 degree symbols of the Zodiac called the "Sabian Symbols" which were re-ascertained by the effort of astrologer Marc Edmond Jones whom sought out the most enabled of proclivity and yet unbiasedly pure clairvoyant that He could find in the 1920's, Miss Elsie Wheeler, in order to successfully obtain them. They were known, to Marc, to have been known to ancient civilizations that of which were alleged to have produced highly adept astrologers of a most superior knowledge of Astrology that had been lost with the disappearance of those civilizations but for the little that did survive in remnants and pieces and found among some of the various lands and their peoples, or in some instances, Tribes, mostly in Asia Minor and India and disseminated to the Europeans mostly by the Arabs that came in contact with those lands and peoples as a result of their nomadic way of living and being traders by nature or choice.
The Sabian Symbols as described and interpreted by Dane Rudhyar in his book that wasn't completed and finally published until 1973, "An Astrological Mandala: The Cycle Of Transformations And Its 360 Symbolic Phases." is a work that is of pure inspiration genius, in my humble, but much experienced from practice and observation the last 30 plus years, opinion. My study of his book and continuous practice and observation allowed me to produce a book of my own that demonstrates the validity and unparalleled effectiveness and inestimable value of the knowledge and use of them as I have shown that Arabic and all other Astrological Parts are "symbolically active", and supportively demonstrates Danes theory that the chart axis produces an accurate assessment of Who the individual was cast to be, the destiny their dharma indicates was decreed for them and how and why they are to achieve it and for what purpose of their spiritual evolution.

Rudhyarian techniques also recognizes that ones birth chart is not a static and lifelong imprisonment, but rather ones' natal astrology is but a starting point as it is progressive and cyclic and continuously transformative upon your being, and allows one to live a wonderful and fruitful life when one lives their life in a spiritually evolutionary manner and utilizes true astrological knowledge and techniques of interpretation to guide them.

May God Bless you and give you guidance in your striving for that knowledge and desire to serve humanity as an astrologer if you so desire.
Namaste. ptv

If you know of whom Edgar Cayce was and believe in his clairvoyant abilities as well, it might interest you to know that Edgar readily denounced the practice of Astrology and strongly advised, even out right warned, against the use of it as it was practiced in his lifetime... and which is still pretty much exactly as it is practiced today by most all "Traditional" astrologers... but also said that it is a most very worthwhile study and practice when fully understood.
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Unread 11-30-2014, 02:24 AM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

What makes someone professional or amateur is really just depends on outlook and personal confidence. Personally, I've studied for almost a decade, lectured at national conferences, and have a private practice, but I wouldn't really call myself a "professional" astrologer, if only because I still have a day job which makes astrology something more like a hobby that I also make money off of, but I have no passion for my day job. I would assume many individuals we would consider to be professional astrologers have a similar story.

You are right in that there are no degrees in astrology, but some of the astrological associations that have formed over the years have constructed their own forms of certification. Feelings about these in the greater astrological community are mixed. Some find them helpful, others think they are heavily biased and unnecessary. They are both likely true. Other astrologers who are unaffiliated with any of these groups have their own courses and many offer some form of certification.

None of these options will necessarily teach you astrology, just the group's or astrologer's type of astrology. This is a very important distinction, but some have more integrity than others.

I think it's interesting that people are quick to offer up books they like, but no one has asked the OP what kind of astrology they would like to study.
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Unread 12-02-2014, 01:30 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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I think it's interesting that people are quick to offer up books they like, but no one has asked the OP what kind of astrology they would like to study.
That's exactly the point of why I went on for great length as I did.
Outside of some intellectual circles in California, until the 1970's, little was known of Rudhyar and the type of astrology he, I would like to say "developed", but in truth all He did was re-ascertain some of the most ancient techniques that, were surely, known in a time of great antiquity.
The greater body of Asdtrologers have been railing, some furiously, against what he wrote about for a number of years since his work has caught on...and increases each year as more, and more, "get on board".

She can learn, pretty much, the same type of astrology from any other authors work she might happen to start reading... sure, they have many different names for "their own" particular style...but really, if it doesn't work... it's all the same, worthless or, of little value.

Kepler College is now defunct, but they used Robert Hand's published works a great deal in their curriculum. Robert just recently announced that all his books are now free, free of charge.... to anyone that wants them.

What does that tell you?

Apartofme, I suggest that you have your own natal chart analysed by a number of astrologers, each of one of the many different "schools of technique" and see which comes closest to describing who you really are, that is if you are interested in natal astrology.
If it is mundane or horary astrology that you are interested in, you can adapt the process.
If by your use of the term "professional", your intent is that by which you can make a living from it, then you'd best know that you have got to be darn good at it. Many of a great number of them trying to make a buck off the practice are drawing from the same sources of lore and using the same techniques and they are a "dime a dozen". Very, very few, get repeat customers or referrals.
If you are looking for fame and fortune, well that's possible to do and you can use practically any type of astrology you choose to. The successful ones rely on their personality and good looks. Talk shows just love 'em.
Sylvia Brown, the "Clairvoyant", was an outright fraud in my opinion...and I don't mean "Humble Opinion" either. But, the talk show circuit just loved her and she was charging $1500.00 an hour in 2001 from what I heard.

It's all a question of whether you want to be of genuine service to mankind or is it material wealth that you seek.
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Unread 12-02-2014, 02:12 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

If I've understood Edgar Cayce's statements about astrology and the zodiac correctly, then he is pretty much stating that the zodiac used today (at his time and now) is not correct and is approximately one sign off ... which coinsides with what western sidereal astrologers say as well as Vedic astrologers. They use the zodiac that is intact with what Cayce said was to be used. I am not aware about Cayce's other mentions of astrology, if he also discussed methods for accuracy other than using "the right zodiac".

I did look for everything I could find to know what Cayce had to say about it because I was aware that he had mentioned it and I am sure that he had some kind of connection to other parts/dimensions than most of us earthlings have ... and so I decided to go into learning about western sidereal astrology and hope for new discoveries there, which indeed I found.

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Unread 12-02-2014, 07:36 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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Kepler closed its' doors a couple of years ago,
unless there has been some recent development as to the contrary that I am unaware of, they're gone...
and good riddance, as far as I'm concerned
as they were teaching the same old, mostly useless, mostly erroneous Astrology.

[deleted trolling comments on TraditionalAstrology by request - Moderator]
.
KEPLER is an online College

Winter Term begins January 5 http://www.kepler.edu/home/index.php...-term-schedule
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Unread 12-03-2014, 05:27 PM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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If I've understood Edgar Cayce's statements about astrology and the zodiac correctly, then he is pretty much stating that the zodiac used today (at his time and now) is not correct and is approximately one sign off ... which coinsides with what western sidereal astrologers say as well as Vedic astrologers. They use the zodiac that is intact with what Cayce said was to be used. I am not aware about Cayce's other mentions of astrology, if he also discussed methods for accuracy other than using "the right zodiac".

I did look for everything I could find to know what Cayce had to say about it because I was aware that he had mentioned it and I am sure that he had some kind of connection to other parts/dimensions than most of us earthlings have ... and so I decided to go into learning about western sidereal astrology and hope for new discoveries there, which indeed I found.
You are correct. And it has been since determined from Edgar's readings that the Zodiac entered into the "Age of Aquarius in June 1936 [or it may have been July, I'm winding down from a long busy day unto night and have too much other subjects on my mind at the moment, but I have it posted in a number of threads here at aw. There was a woman who became a member here about two years ago that is very active in the A.R.E. organization and part of a very dedicated and knowledgeable study group comprised of fellow members of the A.R.E. She told me that they had nailed the date down to the day but all she left me with was enough cited references to get it down to a two week period.

I use very, little of sign astrology in my interpretations. But it is possible that the descriptions were accurate for the signs they are presently attributed to. After all it takes about 2160 years to get through one sign and it's likely those descriptions were written during that time.

Cayce said that astrology is a very worthwhile study and tool when understood properly but what was being practiced in the first half of the 20th century was doing far more harm than good.
That's mostly what you'll find people practicing here.
Sp. from that following Spring Equinox up until, likely, 2008 the first day of Spring had been occurring in the 30th degree of Aquarius. Now it's happening in the 29th degree.

I find this so intrigue as especially the Sabian Symbol that is given as that for the 30th deg. of Aquarius.

Dane Rudhyar took around 40 years to interpret and summarize all 360 degree symbols. He studied the intently and I believe He was the most preeminently qualified person to interpret the symbols alive in the 20th century.

Marc Edmond Jones had his hands on them first as it was Marc that searched for and found the most unassuming, innocent and pure of channel clairvoyant, Miss Elsie Wheeler, to re-ascertain the Symbols that there was plenty of evidence that they were known to some of the most ancient known civilizations of the Asia Minor region thousands of years ago.

As Marc Edmond Jones had already drawn to some sort of conclusion as to how the symbols would progress from one to another, when they didn't quite match what he had envisioned them to be, he took the liberty of changing a number of them to fit his ideal of a "special social psychology and abstract philosophy" he had developed in theory.

When Dane met Marc in Los Angeles in 1930, about 4 or 5 years after Elsie had produced the symbols, Marc got him interested enough in the mimeographed courses on Astrology he was sending members of the "Sabian Assembly" which Marc had founded. As Dane had already studied Astrology for a bit of time beginning back in around 1920, Dane saw that something of the School of Astrological technique that Marc was promoting that piqued his interest. That interest grew that was mostly due to the book that Marc finished writing the following year, "Symbolical Astrology". Dane had seen about every set of symbols claimed to be the degree symbols. Dane studied the mby then but when He saw what those in Marc's book were , he became VERY INTERESTED. In Dane's own words, he "Found them to be far superior to previously published sets of degree symbols."



Dane was about 35 or 36 by this time and He had originally come to the U.S. from France, where He had been born and studied to be a composer and had been in American since late 1916 and the following sprig his Polytonal compositions were being performed by the New York Metropolitan Opera. He "hob-nobed" with society on the East Coast meeting many influential people, such as the only Zen master in America in those days, Sasaki Roshi, he got into studying the Vedas- Vedic Knowledge and it was during that time He changed his name from Daniel Chenier to Dane Rudhyar.

He met Alice Bailey of the American Theosophist Society and she commissioned him to compose some musical pieces for a production that was going to be given at the Theosophist headquarters in Los Angeles and He followed Alice out West that year, 1920. He got deeply into studying the works of Carl Jung in 1933/ Alice bailey encouraged him to write that book I mentioned in my post above which she also published and considered to be the finest book on Astrology written in the 20th century, as it is the only book chosen to make the "Greatest 100 Books of the 20th century" chosen by the London Times in 1999-2000.
He asked Marc if he might include a condensed version of the symbols and their descriptions in his own book and Marc readily agreed.

But some time following the first printing of his book Dane began noticing more and more . bit by bit increasingly noticing that here and there the symbols seemed to "veer off" and he found some of Marc's descriptions to be unsatisfactory. Upon learning that the clairvoyant, Elsie Wheeler was living just a couple of hundred miles away in San Diego at the time, Dane drove down South one day to pay her a visit. He asked her if she could recall what exactly she saw for a couple of the degrees he was concerned about and she told Dane that she could do better than that. Marc had let her keep all 360 of the cards they had used with Elsie's description of each symbol written on the card by Marc

Marc was busted... here was now no doubt what Marc had done and Dane was the one to notice there was something wrong. That should give you an bit of an idea of just how good Dane was at interpreting symbology.

So, Dane started publishing a corrected version, symbol by symbol at the rate of about 3 or 4 a year in a couple of popular astrological magazines, back in the day in the early 940's, He asked Marc for his permission to write his proposed book on the Sabian Symbols and if he might change the imagery on any that He felt could make them easier to understand , put into the context of American society etc., if Dane thought there was a need too... Marc not only agreed, He gave Rudhyar his blessing.

Then Marc came out with anew book on the symbols but this time He used the brief original descriptions as they were originally described by Elsie and written by Marc on those cards but added to the symbols completely new and different interpretations heavily emphasizing the opposition aspect degrees.



Now, I know that is a bit too much information, but I had to give enough of the events in their order to help you visualize what was going down. The books that have written accounts of these times give the impression that all was well in the astrological circles and everyone was a welcome fellow Star Charter and they were all freely sharing there findings not hoarding them.


If you have guessed by now that Dane was blackmailing Jones with abit of the, kind of old, "You let me do what I want to do with them and I'll never speak of his again" sort of agreement, then you have the same thoughts as to what probably transpired as I believe likely did.

But having studied these symbols for over 30 years now myself, and knowing which symbols Dane changed and what the original symbol was, I can tell anyone that wants to listen that in every instance I've seen, Dane did an excellent job of keeping the symbolism to the precept but making them readily identifiable.

As Elsie's original description for the symbol for the 30th degree of Aquarius, is "The Field of Ardath In Bloom" which, referred to a scene in an occult novel by Marie Corelli, centering upon ancient Babylon and, was written around the year 1916.... it is not of much use for many people, if any, nowadays.
But, it is the one symbol that Dane did major reconstructive symbolism on
As a field of many tiny little flowers like that of clover, or something similar. at the height of spring seen from a distance appears to be all one singular giant flower.


"AQUARIUS 30: DEEPLY BOOTED IN THE PAST OF A VERY ANCIENT CULTURE, A SPIRITUAL BROTHERHOOD IN WHICH MANY INDIVIDUAL MINDS ARE MERGED INTO THE GLOWING LIGHT OF A UNANIMOUS CONSCIOUSNESS IS REVEALED TO ONE WHO HAS EMERGED SUCCESSFULLY FROM HIS METAMORPHOSIS.

KEYNOTE: The ability for the person with an open mind and a deep feeling for self-transcendence to come in contact with higher forms of existence.


The originally recorded Sabian symbol stated: 'The field of Ardath in bloom,' which referred to a scene in an occult novel by Marie Corelli centering upon ancient Babylon. The reference may well have been a "blind" inasmuch as Marc Jones has stressed his inner contact with a Brotherhood with Babylonian (or "Sabian") roots. A spiritual Brotherhood constitutes a state of 'multi-unity'— i.e. a multiplicity of individuals, if one thinks of the paths they trod to reach their final metamorphosis, but a unity of consciousness and 'Soul' —thus unanimity ('anima' meaning Soul). In this spiritual Whole each unit is a recognizable 'form' or entity if one looks at it with the eyes of personality; but when seen through a unified spiritual vision or from a distance, the Whole appears to be one single area of radiant light. Similarly, when studied by the modern physicist, light can be apprehended either as a stream of identifiable particles (photons) or as one continuous wave. Whether it is seen as one or the other depends on the point of view="4"]CONSCIOUS TOTALITY OF BEING. ".

This is the last and culminating symbol of Scene Twenty-two of the cyclic ritual. This is indeed a fitting symbol, as the number 22 symbolizes all forms of mastery. At any level, it is a symbol of spiritual group fulfillment — of
[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT="Times New Roman"][SIZE

The astrological chart I produced for the date Edgar Cayce said that Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth was born on, i.e. March 19th, 03 A.D julian calendar. aka April 2nd, 03 A.D. gregorian calendar.
which, by the way, produces a Part of Fortune in the 19th degree of Pisces. the Sabian Symbol for which is from Dane Rudhyars book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala"

"PISCES 19: A MASTER INSTRUCTING HIS DISCIPLE.
KEYNOTE: The transfer of power and knowledge which keeps the original spiritual and creative Impulse of the cycle active and undeviated."
The 30th degree of Aquarius, above, is what was derived from that same chart for the Part of Service...as it is really about "Spiritual Service" and also the part of Bondage derived from that chart, as it is about ;Spiritual Bondage'
If you are familiar with the terms "Great White Brotherhood", "White Lodge", "Ascended Masters" then you should be able to easily recognize whet the symbol that Dane chose to re formulate as is really all about.

Edgar Cayce was asked by members of the Executive Committee of Group 9 of the A.R.E.
{A Washington D.C. based group... think about that]
They were after an answer that had things buzzing in a number of circles for some time. For the first 10 years that Edgar was giving his 'readings" all he did was address the physical body and it's ailments.
then one day he tells a client that the reason he was ill and suffering in his life was due to past karma from a previous life.

That was the day many "minds were blown' associated with A.R.E.

So they had gotten curious and he answered for many kinds of question, Karma, previous lives, ancient civilizations far more advanced than even we are right now. The origin and destiny of mankind, UFO"s, So apparently some one got worried and wanted to make sure that it was someone in the immediate family or if I lost it.

What they eventually found out in reading number (254-83) on 2/14/1935 when Edgar was repeatedly asked to identify the source from where the knowledge was coming from it was reveled that in all readings in which any question asked of a subject other than pertaining to a physical ailment of physical health. Who was speaking if it wasn't Edgar?

It ws reveled by asking the following question:
Q. to what extent are the Masters of the Great White Brotherhood directing the activities of Edgar Cayce?
Who are the Masters directly in charge?
A. Messengers from the higher forces that may manifest from the Throne of Grace itself

If you understand how the question was asked and in the manner then you have bu one conclusion. As the Executive committee asked..."To what Extant are...?" That means once in awhile.
...or A couple of times that month? Every question other than the physical ones. just some of the non physical...
Worded as it was it can mean any of or all of that.

Cayce was asked again: Q. Who are the Masters directly in charge? Is Saint Germain
A. {interrupting}Those that are directed by the Lord of lords, the KIng of kings, Him that came that ye be one with the father.
Q. Is Saint Germain among them? Who is Halaliel?
A. These are all but messengers of the Most High.
Halaliel is that one who from the beginning has been as a leader of the heavenly host, who has defied Ariel, who has made the ways that have been heavy----but as the mean for understanding."

Q, Is Saint Germain among them?
A. When needed

Rudhyar got hooked up with the Theosophists in 1920's to mid 1930's and in fact married Leadbetter's personal secretary

Guy Ballard claimed to have met and became a disciple of Saint Germain on Mount Shasta, Calif. August 16th, 1930 and was active with being the alleged "messenger until hi passing on Dec 29, 1939

Admirl Byrd as a story surrounding his 1929 flight over the South Pole that is hard to get any straight "official" facts about.He claimed they were intercepted, or something aslike that and forced to land and met inhabitants of Argartha, That is also part of some of the Saint Germain stories.

The writers assistant that my publisher got to help me write my fist book, is Dorothy Leon, whom live in Southern Oregon and claims to be a disciple of Saint Germain and meets and talks with him often. She has a number of books published that she has written and I have found a good deal of info that I previously knew nothing about to be true in her works. She also turned out to be an old friend of the room mate I had at the time I started writing the book. Suryakant. Disciple of Dhyanyogi Madhusundandas.
Reall, a pious ygi and a great human being...very knowledgeable and who provided me with the understanding to understand Rudhyars's Sabian Book as to a few chapters in Part Three. The Cross and the Star, being one that comes immediately to mind. Without my having met Suryakant, I would have never recognized the Jesus/Yeshu'a natal chart for what it truly is...and the entirety of all the events and the players is that it lead to a fantastic understanding that the Sabian Symbols are quite genuine, that the astrological Parts are "symbolically active', the chart axis symbology may be the most important thing of them all to learn of and how to do it.

I was told by my clairvoyant that Suryakant is the reincarnation of ''Sir Galahad" of Arthurian legend And all the symbology in his chart say just that , too!
.
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
KEPLER is an online College

Winter Term begins January 5 http://www.kepler.edu/home/index.php...-term-schedule
They lost their accreditation four years ago.
You might as well get your"diploma" out of a Cracker Jack box ...probably get more respect too!
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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I am seriously considering furthering my education in Astrology to the point where I am considered a Professional.
There's no such thing as earning a degree in Astrology,
so what makes someone a certified professional Astrologer and what makes someone an amateur?

What Astrology books can you recommend to me so I can cross the bridge from amateur to professional?
Some good advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post

I don't consider myself advanced, but relative to the forum, I probably am.

It takes years of study
to become a basically competent astrologer,
able to understand a good range of astrological 'issues'.
People spend their lives doing it, and learn all the way.



Look at lots of charts.
Take some charts and really work them.
Figure out what makes particular people tick, why they are what they are and not something else.
Look at the charts of extraordinary people.
Look at the charts of people experiencing temporary but notable changes
and try to figure out what's going on.
Document it.


I get very opinionated on this matter, but I think most astrologers aren't working with a full toolkit, so no wonder it's tough. A lot of what is lost to the West still lives in the East.

You need to explore everything, or you're likely to have huge holes in your knowledge and skillset.

If I want to look at what's relevant to a person at any given time, I read their dashas. People aren't the same throughout their life. You can't just look at the natal and know which parts of it are temporally more significant.

Some 'aha' moments I can recall;

Understanding the importance of houses and house rulerships
Discovering the dasha system
Realising the significance of mutual exchanges
Realising the value of 'turned' houses
Getting to grips with naabhasa yogas


It's probably more like a trickle of useful things that I found and studied and applied and then became part of a body of knowledge.
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

Hi piercetheveil. Interesting background on Rudhyar. I hope you'll be interested in reading, and commenting on, a draught copy of my book before the final edit some time late next year. Its largely inspired by works by Rudhyar in which he discusses various celestial cycles as symbolising a cyclical shift of emphasis back and forth between an individualising tendency and a collectivising tendency.
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

Piercethevale

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Kepler closed its' doors a couple of years ago, unless there has been some recent development as to the contrary that I am unaware of, they're gone... and good riddance, as far as I'm concerned as they were teaching the same old, mostly useless, mostly erroneous Astrology.
I'm personally sorry to hear that Kepler's College is now closed. Without the wisdom and experiences of past astrologers wouldn't we become rather like teenage students trying to figure out what others long before had studied and what was their observations?


Piercethevale


Quote:
In 1969 Rudhyar founded the International Committee for Humanistic Astrology, a small professional society that would work on the development of his perspective. He began one of the most fruitful periods of his life, turning out several books a year for the next decade. He began to absorb the insights of transpersonal astrology, which concentrated on exploring altered and exalted states of perception, and by the mid-1970s had moved beyond humanistic astrology to what he termed 'transpersonal astrology.' He also began to reflect upon the New Age movement and wrote several of the more sophisticated volumes on planetary consciousness and New Age philosophy.
Quote:

Yes, thanks to Rudhyar, he as other Modernistic authorities introduced concepts like Saturn Rx representing a type of absent father image where another mentor is chosen because of that father type was insufficient. Many writers of the past couple of centuries made astounding discoveries, but then most of them read from authorities who had died long before their own incarnation had begun.

It's great to go to seminars, attend lectures, and patronize the current astrology icons who are still with us like Robert Hand, Noel Tyl, Liz Greene, John Frawley, Deborah Houlding, Chris Brennan, Curtis Manwaring, etc...etc.. There are many out there whom are very diligent in their astrological studies and all of them continually find faults in concepts they thought they understood because they keep turning over new ground by scrutinizing their past knowledge by challenging themselves with a pioneering spirit to become the 'razors edge' in their astro wisdom.

I know of this man whom was from an agricultural community, and attended an agricultural college. He moved into a farm after he married, where his wife complained of the cracks in the walls of the shanty of a home they bought on what would become their great farm. Now this farm had hundreds of acres of land to be cleared, before the modern chain saws used in felling trees of today. This man had four children, the oldest male remained and took over the family farm and the son's father through his knowledge gained from his agricultural background and his college years built a small empire, hiring many men and women to work upon that farm. He had a powerful reputation in his community because of his merits and his integrity. His son who never went to college became dependent upon the parents for guidance. His son not knowing what his father had studied could not keep that farm going in the same magnitude as his father had. Don't you imagine that at the agricultural college his father attended that they possibly taught agricultural techniques and it's history thereby making sound students who might enhance the farming community?

And that man's son like so many sons who didn't quite understand what the original enterprising founder knew eventually lost the family farm to the bank.

Where am I going with this analogy?

Aren't we as astrologers as dedicated as this man and his son were in agriculture, aren't we somewhat inept if or when we do not understand certain concepts of our craft?

I say as the revolutionary Olivia Barclay boldly brought about a revival in Traditional astrology, as Benjamin Dykes who is reviving Medieval astrology, and those who emphasize Hellenistic astrology, that are we not like the son of that farmer if we do not keep studying and at least read books from the Ancients and shortly thereafter for at least astrology's history's sake? Just as the man who attended the agricultural college had more agricultural wisdom than his hard working and dedicated son.

The Original Poster in a sense has asked when do we graduate in astrology?

Is the answer found in our credibility as Lilly and Nostradamus predicted the 'fire of London in 1666 A.D., very similarly like Evangeline Adam's prediction of the Windsor Hotel fire of 1899, which she became famous for as she won her case in her trial in New York.

Or when one serves Royalty and wealthy magnates of Europe as Alan Leo did because of his credibility was he an astrological graduate? Yet I'll wager he didn't stop studying from every source he could and if many of the texts were available to him as we have such as online ebooks Alan Leo would have been nourishing the science and art of astrology to leave a greater legacy for us.

I would consider myself and my Arian positions, so childlike, like one in elementary school, if I did not excavate further into the mountains of knowledge left in them there astro mountains by our past writers of antiquity to the present.


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Unread 12-06-2014, 10:17 AM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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I'm personally sorry to hear that Kepler's College is now closed. Without the wisdom and experiences of past astrologers wouldn't we become rather like teenage students trying to figure out what others long before had studied and what was their observations?

Kepler is now an online College
its chairman is the well-respected and world-renowned astrologer Robert Hand
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

Welp, my Dad told me the difference between a pro and an amateur is not book education or certificates earned...its experience and IF anyone is willing to PAY you for it. And that is not just astrology...that can be anything, a plumber, machinist, mechanic, etc . I really have never found that to NOT be true. Someone can go on and on all day about all they claim to know but have no obvious experience or in practice are not effective. Therefore, I say if people are willing to pay you for what you do and come back for more...you can claim YOU ARE a professional. If you do not work for money but accolades...you are a fool.
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

Those who are able to influence others and make money are professionals. It has nothing to do with level of expertise. If you want to know level of expertise, there is no hard and fast guidelines.

But you could think of for Natal Western Astrology:
=====================================

- 1.1. Sun sign astrologers
- 1.2. Astrologers with skills of 12 houses. How planets work in different houses and signs
- 1.3. Astrologers with skills to synthesize interaction of planets and their collective influence
- 1.4. Astrologers with skills to figure out correctly ruling planet.

- 2.1 Astrologers with skills to delineate by incorporating progression, transits, returns, etc.
- 2.2 Astrologers with skills to do compatibility analysis

- 3.1 Astrologers with skills to make planets working in favor
- 3.2 Astrologers with skills to guide remedial approach through gems, relocation, and several others techniques

- 4.1 Astrologers with skills in other systems (Vedic, Palmistry, Horary, Election)
- 4.2 Astrologers with skills to judge, which system is working best for an indivual

- 5.1 Astrologers with knowledge and understanding of realities that President Obama's horoscope is shared by hundreds and hundreds, but Obama is just one.
- 5.2 Astrologers with knowledge and understanding of realities that a person, an animal and a company born on same moment with same horoscope will differ in so many aspects.

MANY ASTROLOGERS DO HAVE POWERFUL ANIMAL MAGNETISM, to BLESS (and its OPPOSITE to ...). Many times this helps some one to be successful professional.
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

Having listed various things in above post, people in different part of world would have different objective, while reaching an Astrologer. People in India through Vedic astrology has these types of interests

1. Marriage - to find rich and stable marriage partner
2. Improve luck - through various techniques (gems and rituals are most common)
3. Fortune listening and decision making

So if you look at previous post, a professional Vedic Astrologer has to know:

- 2.1 Astrologers with skills to delineate by incorporating dasa, transits, returns, etc.
- 2.2 Astrologers with skills to do compatibility analysis
- 3.2 Astrologers with skills to guide remedial approach through gems, relocation, and several others techniques
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

PARROT ASTROLOGER PROFESSION

Let me explain with an example as well. About parrot astrologers. It is profession, because owner of Parrot to attract people and earns using parrot to make living. This will also give examples, what all goes in this profession.




1. The use of parrot to pull a card from deck is like buying a ticket from Oracle fortune teller machine



Parrot also is center of attraction to attract clients.

2. After that the Astrologer will ask "RASHI's NAME". This gives him/her information about where moon was located at birth time (within three degrees and twenty seconds).

With Rashi's knowledge, the Astrologer can incorporate all the transits with reference to Natal Moon.

Professional astrologers do play with emotions of client to maximize their gain.

Specially when Saturn or Jupiter is in proper aspect to Moon, you'd say how ACCURATE.

3. In many cases, the Astrologer would like to see palm. Most of the Parrot Astrologers are Palmists also.

4. Many parrot astrologers develop skills in Horary and Election methods. A Parrot Astrologer will be able to guide one if he/she has that skills.

5. Many parrot astrologers will be able to do rituals related to planets. That helps them to make more money.



A parrot astrologer starts from 1. Then gradually learns other things (in any order, that does not matter). More learning and applying daily to customers means more earning.
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Kepler is now an online College
its chairman is the well-respected and world-renowned astrologer Robert Hand
Kepler is, however, not accredited by any body, and hasn't been able to grant degrees since 2010. This isn't in any way commentary on Robert Hand, but accreditation goes quite a ways in gaining legitimacy as an academic program. Whether or not one might consider this to be important is an entirely different matter. There currently exists no degree program in the US in the area of astrology.
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Unread 12-11-2014, 01:40 AM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

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Welp, my Dad told me the difference between a pro and an amateur is not book education or certificates earned...its experience and IF anyone is willing to PAY you for it. And that is not just astrology...that can be anything, a plumber, machinist, mechanic, etc . I really have never found that to NOT be true. Someone can go on and on all day about all they claim to know but have no obvious experience or in practice are not effective. Therefore, I say if people are willing to pay you for what you do and come back for more...you can claim YOU ARE a professional. If you do not work for money but accolades...you are a fool


Well there are people involved in various trades who are members of unions and those communities have general accepted levels of expertise that have to be earned by certain standards. Such as an Apprentice, Journeyman, etc., showing the levels of professionalism.

Then in the turbulent USA economy we have Casual Labor Temporary Agencies where those within unions truly frown on both because they are Not very highly skilled as a rule and they are willing to work substantially for a lower price; generally their crude work reflects their skills or lack of but there are exceptions.

There is a very noted institution that teaches astrology and endorses no pay, no money in the exchange for astrological services, as they claim to charge a fee puts the skilled astrologer on the level of prostitution. They claim their stance is taken from a teacher who taught the same way, one renowned in human history. And I'm not going to mention their name yet they have their inspired ideals as we all evolve from; many astrologers may be aware of this creed or practice of this institution.

I personally agree there must be an exchange, at least a substantial gift, because so many times when we are given something and give nothing back we see many who are ungrateful and begin to have the mindset of it's their right to receive without any exchange of the practitioner's merits and hard work.

In many rural environments those among the medical profession in history received payment in livestock of a share in the crops or similar as money was harder to make the exchange with due to various circumstances.

The problem is as many skilled astrological authorities through history have cited is there are charlatans in the astro arts who do not necessarily do false interpretations deliberately, yet reflected in their works, and then there are those who are truly more interested in the pay rather than their integrity of knowing their art.

And that is why the Modern Zadkiel studied William Lilly like so many in the 19th century did, even if they misunderstood a few things just as Lilly misinterpreted a few concepts. But Lilly stated, whom Zadkiel borrowed much, Lilly states '..we must be credible for the art of astrology and for our own reputations..'.

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Unread 12-11-2014, 09:49 AM
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Re: What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

[QUOTE=heretolearn;590133]

Kepler is, however, not accredited by any body, and hasn't been able to grant degrees since 2010.

/QUOTE]

From my own personal experience of starting and running an accredited school, receiving accreditation is dependant upon:
a) the school employing teaching staff who are certified examiners and
b) the examiners then being able to prepare the students well enough to write and pass these (internationally) recognised exams.

Perhaps, astrological colleges like Kepler could acheive accreditation, if an existing internationally recognised body / association of astrologers were to prepare their own exams....?!

Astrologers then with experience teaching, and who'd passed the recognised exams, would be additionally trained to teach for exam preparation - the colleges could hire the 'official examiners' who'd train at the college so that students could successfully pass the exams.

The College would then be allowed to offer completion certificates, and eventually fullfill the requirements for accreditation.

Last edited by Inline; 12-11-2014 at 09:52 AM.
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