Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Other Astrology > Mundane Astrology

Mundane Astrology Discuss the astrology of towns, cities, states, provinces, countries, empires, and the world in general.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 03-30-2012, 11:26 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

......give or take a few months.

There has been some talk on this forum lately about the group born during the Capricorn stellium, and many of these people were born with Chiron in Cancer opposition Saturn in Capricorn.

In my extensive research into Chiron and its impact upon people's lives, this aspect of Chiron is the one I understand the least, so I am calling on anyone who has this aspect to provide me with some feedback.

I was born during a Chiron square Saturn in the late 1940's, so I get that totally - the necessity for mothers (and women generally) to adopt masculine and `fathering' roles.
The conjunction of Chiron and Saturn in and around 1965 brought the old masculine patriarchal order to account, and that is evident in the history of the time.

Now to the late 1980's -
This was a time of dissolution and destruction of many of the old structures - especially the communist bloc countries of eastern Europe. Of course, Uranus was also active in Capricorn at that time.

My question is this...................
For those of you who have this placement - Chiron opposition Saturn - how would you say it manifests in your life? What has been your relationship/experience of father/authority/hierarchical structures?

[Just musing about this aspect............
Perhaps amongst people with this natal aspect there is a rejection of what the father represents to them, and in response to this an inability to recognise the father/authority within themselves.
The trouble for me is that I know a number of young people with this aspect, and each one of them is totally different in their relation to father/authority.]

__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen

Last edited by R4VEN; 03-30-2012 at 11:42 AM. Reason: adding an afterthought
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 03-31-2012, 02:34 AM
stainedBlue's Avatar
stainedBlue stainedBlue is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 137
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
In my extensive research into Chiron and its impact upon people's lives, this aspect of Chiron is the one I understand the least, so I am calling on anyone who has this aspect to provide me with some feedback.

Now to the late 1980's -
This was a time of dissolution and destruction of many of the old structures - especially the communist bloc countries of eastern Europe. Of course, Uranus was also active in Capricorn at that time.

My question is this...................
For those of you who have this placement - Chiron opposition Saturn - how would you say it manifests in your life? What has been your relationship/experience of father/authority/hierarchical structures?

[Just musing about this aspect............
Perhaps amongst people with this natal aspect there is a rejection of what the father represents to them, and in response to this an inability to recognise the father/authority within themselves.
The trouble for me is that I know a number of young people with this aspect, and each one of them is totally different in their relation to father/authority.]
My experience with the opposition has been an intense, serious awareness of Father and authority, and wanting to find security/answers in them while also being faced with repeated letdown and discontent with what I find, all the while having an inherent awareness that authority as it is presently established is not the answer and must be rebuilt anew if it's to be embraced at all. Essentially, I find authority to be flawed and very unreliable, and my Father image is uncertain at best -- a marked distrust, even. Yet, letting go and facing the wound of my own voice, my own authority, and trusting in and embracing that no matter how contrary it runs to the established authority and internalized image of Father, it isn't an easy task. I'm continually faced with self-doubt, and resistance, whether internal or external. The irony being the more I let go and assert myself, the more whole I feel, the more respect I seem to acquire from others as well as myself, the more secure I feel in myself, and I realize that to truly find my place in this world I must walk my own path rather than uphold tradition and the status quo. My healing and my gift rests in my words and the assertion of myself. My pain in life has been through the rejection of my voice and acquiescing to the demands of 'authority.' And in many ways my emotions had been inhibited as a result.

A caveat worth mentioning is that I have Uranus conjunct Saturn, and both are in opposition to Chiron. Frankly I don't know how much Uranus influences what I said above, though I can say that the opposition to Uranus has helped me tremendously in finding solutions that can then be expressed through Chiron, and thus my voice. Out of all the aspects in my chart, I've been most uncertain of Chiron opposite Saturn; and I'm sure there is more to be added to what was said above, but this all I have to offer at this time. I'll post my chart for curious minds.
Attached Images
File Type: gif user25495_pic3803_1321437631.gif (52.0 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by stainedBlue; 03-31-2012 at 02:40 AM. Reason: Forgot to upload chart
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to stainedBlue For This Useful Post:
katydid (03-29-2018)
  #3  
Unread 03-31-2012, 07:43 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

stainedBlue, thank you for that input. It makes a lot of sense to me.
I especially like what you say here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stainedBlue View Post
though I can say that the opposition to Uranus has helped me tremendously in finding solutions that can then be expressed through Chiron, and thus my voice.
The conjunction of Saturn and Uranus is fortuitous I feel, and rather than the Chiron-Uranus opp creating the need to check out, or opt out completely, it gives you a degree of creative drive............or if you like, an outlet for all that angst.

One of my nieces has this natal arrangement - with Mercury, Chiron conj in 1st very early in Cancer, opposing her Saturn-Uranus in the 7th. She is a gifted artist, but after she left school she was pushed into going to uni in order to complete a degree. Her parents - esp father - are tertiary educated and have very traditional ideas of what is meant by a `life path'. As I view her, she is just keeping her mouth shut and biding her time until she is able to make a living from her art work. But essentially she is sticking to her goals, which means that she will not be following any kind of traditional and expected life trajectory.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 03-31-2012, 10:49 AM
JerryRR JerryRR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 573
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

This cycle commenced,April 1966,@ 23 Pisces.

J.R
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 03-31-2012, 10:50 AM
CapAquaPis's Avatar
CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ...in the sidereal astrological system.
Posts: 2,252
Unhappy Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Chiron+Saturn = intergenerational conflict, as Chiron in Cancer challenges the aging Baby boomer parent in the depressant Capricorn. I sense a new generation gap grown up, due to the Great Recession rocked the status quo and changes in western countries' political power infrastructure. The young shall inherit the earth and does not want any more false promises of fake wealth, because the free market-socialistic credit economy is old and about to die off. The opposing forces of Chiron and Saturn sets it off.
__________________
or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 04-01-2012, 03:04 AM
CapAquaPis's Avatar
CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ...in the sidereal astrological system.
Posts: 2,252
Unhappy Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

I want to bring up a similar topic on the Chiron opposite Uranus generation of the early 1980s: Uranus the generational planet in Scorpio vs. Chiron in Taurus. How will it have an effect on generation Y indicates a decline in socioeconomic status (the vanishing middle class), broken relatonships, lack of stable finances (specifically in the recessions of the early 1990s, early 2000s & the current one we're dealing in) and difficulties in achieving independece in early adulthood left a bad mark on my generation.
__________________
or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 04-01-2012, 03:25 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

What you describe is not so much about Chiron opp Uranus - which was present on and off since the late 1950's - as it is the expression of Chiron in Taurus. (Chiron opp Uranus is more about the mental stresses of the various Chiron wounds, and the ways in which some people tend to check out in order to avoid experiencing the wound itself.)

I'm sure there are threads on this - i.e. Chiron in Taurus - as I can remember contributing to them.
If you check out the last Chiron in Taurus generation - born between 1926-early 1934. The first of this generation were born during a time - prior to Oct`29 - when people were told anything at all was possible, and dreams could come true. From late in 1929 things began to unravel - major economic crash, followed (eventually) by world-wide economic depression, and then World War 2, and then the decade after war's end of very tight spending in order to rebuild nations affected. All this by the time this generation reached the age of 30.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 04-01-2012, 10:18 PM
Munch Munch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle, Wa USA
Posts: 1,152
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
What you describe is not so much about Chiron opp Uranus - which was present on and off since the late 1950's - as it is the expression of Chiron in Taurus. (Chiron opp Uranus is more about the mental stresses of the various Chiron wounds, and the ways in which some people tend to check out in order to avoid experiencing the wound itself.)

I'm sure there are threads on this - i.e. Chiron in Taurus - as I can remember contributing to them.
If you check out the last Chiron in Taurus generation - born between 1926-early 1934. The first of this generation were born during a time - prior to Oct`29 - when people were told anything at all was possible, and dreams could come true. From late in 1929 things began to unravel - major economic crash, followed (eventually) by world-wide economic depression, and then World War 2, and then the decade after war's end of very tight spending in order to rebuild nations affected. All this by the time this generation reached the age of 30.
So very true! I am so frustrated as there really doesn't seem to be any way to win. You have to mortgage your future to go to school in order to get a job that pays something even sorta, kinda close to decent OR not go to school and make next to nothing. Either way, you'll spend a great deal of time behind the eight ball. It's exhausting.

That said, I wonder about Capricorns (like myself) that are living through this period. I was born in January 1981. Regan was still in office. Now, after years of frustrated efforts, those of us with Capricorn suns are having to make some really important decisions and in many ways, I feel that we shall be responsible for creating the new paradigm. I say this because of the Uranus square from Aries and of course the conjunction of Pluto as wells as transpersonal Saturn being back in the sign of our natal charts in Libra. Thoughts?
__________________
I am what I am. - Popeye




Last edited by Munch; 04-01-2012 at 10:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 04-02-2012, 01:43 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Munch, I was about to reply to your post, but I'd actually like to hear more from those who have the Chiron-Saturn opposition natally. This is a research-thread for me.

Munch, maybe you can create a separate thread on the specifics of Chiron in Taurus.

Those who have Chiron opp Saturn have Chiron in various signs. One of the (many) reasons I am asking about the opp between Chiron and Saturn is that my young grandson has this aspect in his chart, and I'm curious as to how it may manifest in the future.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 04-02-2012, 10:11 AM
Bina's Avatar
Bina Bina is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,229
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

I was born in 1966 and have Chiron conjunct Saturn in Pisces, think it's similar to the opposition and from my experience I feel it is about difficulties with authority figures, also the father. My father was largely absent and unavailable, but when he was there he was very dominating and imposing. (He also has Saturn in Pisces -conjunct mine- squaring his Chiron in Gemini - and he had a difficult and violent father too..)
I can't accept any authority imposed on me, unless it makes sense , am very rebellious and non-conformist..there is also a search for higher wisdom/authority which I can respect..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 04-02-2012, 01:38 PM
Munch Munch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle, Wa USA
Posts: 1,152
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
Munch, I was about to reply to your post, but I'd actually like to hear more from those who have the Chiron-Saturn opposition natally. This is a research-thread for me.

Munch, maybe you can create a separate thread on the specifics of Chiron in Taurus.

Those who have Chiron opp Saturn have Chiron in various signs. One of the (many) reasons I am asking about the opp between Chiron and Saturn is that my young grandson has this aspect in his chart, and I'm curious as to how it may manifest in the future.
Indeed. I certainly don't mean to highjack your thread. I can understand your interest. BTW, haven't seen you in a bit so, "HELLO!"
__________________
I am what I am. - Popeye



Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 04-03-2012, 01:52 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munch View Post
BTW, haven't seen you in a bit so, "HELLO!"
`Hello' back, Munch. I sometimes take time away - best for me as well as other users....

I've been thinking............
I just remembered the daughter of a friend of mine who has this placement natally. I thought of her relationship with her father - very close actually, as she became her Daddy's `little boy', her being the 4th girl in a row, and for a while the youngest in the family.

When she got to high school, it all began. By around her 10th year - during which she turned 15 - she decided to not attend classes which she found to be boring, or - in her words - `complete bulls**t'. When she did attend these classes she'd question the teacher and the authority of the teacher to impart the knowledge. Certain classes she refused point blank to attend. There were many `meetings' where her mother had to go to the school and have the principal tell her how rebellious her daughter was, and how this couldn't continue.

By the time she turned 16 she left school to work. She is remarkable in the workforce. She knuckles down and takes responsibility. She works in hospitality, so can see the positive outcome of what she does.

She was born in 1989 - Chiron-Mercury conj in Cancer, opposing Saturn-Neptune closely conj in Capricorn. She works extraordinarily well with that Saturn-Neptune conjunction, and although her teen years were very difficult in a lot of ways, she has used what she has experienced and risen above it.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 04-03-2012, 02:11 AM
stainedBlue's Avatar
stainedBlue stainedBlue is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 137
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

R4VEN,
How do you perceive Chiron in retrograde to behave in the opposition with Saturn vs direct in opposition? I'm still not very familiar with Chiron, but my own impression is that aspects to it are more or less a sort of gambit, requiring an illusory sacrifice to gain through courage what was 'sacrificed' and thus receive the healing by finding the wound was an inherent part of the base character all along. However, I don't understand the difference between direct and rx when it comes to Chiron's influence. Also, I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on the illusory gambit view I mentioned.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 04-03-2012, 02:34 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by stainedBlue View Post
R4VEN,
How do you perceive Chiron in retrograde to behave in the opposition with Saturn vs direct in opposition? I'm still not very familiar with Chiron, but my own impression is that aspects to it are more or less a sort of gambit, requiring an illusory sacrifice to gain through courage what was 'sacrificed' and thus receive the healing by finding the wound was an inherent part of the base character all along. However, I don't understand the difference between direct and rx when it comes to Chiron's influence. Also, I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on the illusory gambit view I mentioned.
stainedBlue, I have emboldened the section of your quote which I found to be very interesting, and most of all a succinct account of the way in which Chiron works!! I find it interesting also that you used the word `sacrificed', because in my own long experience of personally working with Chiron, that is the one word which best describes what is required from an individual if we are to take advantage of our Chiron placement - and aspects.

If you check out an ephemeris, you will see that Chiron goes retrograde quite often, and sometimes for months. In her written work on Chiron, Barbara Hand Clow states that she believes those with Chiron Rx are the healers in the population. I believe that we are all healers, given that to work with our own Chiron placement we have a need to help others with theirs.

Chiron Rx seems quite subtle to me, but then again, my own natal Chiron is in direct motion, so I can only observe how it seems to operate for others. If we look at it in relation to how planets operate in Rx motion, it seem that when Chiron is Rx the person's whole chart may be influenced more powerfully by their Chiron, and also they may have a more internal drive and striving to work with Chiron, rather than avoiding it at all costs.

I've just had a quick flick through my saved charts looking for those with Chiron Rx - especially those close enough to me for me to be able to observe their lives. The only one in my family who has Chiron Rx is my youngest son. He definitely has worked consciously with a kind of psychological/spiritual approach to life since the age of 13. His Chiron placement is difficult - Rx in Taurus in the 6th, conjunct south node. His health has always been just a bit under par, and this has forced him to `turn inwards'. He also has a packed 12th house, but that's another story altogether!

And as to the difference between Chiron direct opposing Saturn and Chiron Rx opposing Saturn, I have never actually asked myself that question!! My guess would be that the expression of this aspect would tend to be turned inwards, rather than outwards. (The girl I mentioned in my last post has her Chiron direct in Cancer, and she has always directed the opposition to Saturn outwards - where her `opposition' presents to her in her outer life.)

And thanks for that question, stainedBlue. Your contributions always make me think, and I like that

PS. I just checked your chart, stainedBlue...........that's a really interesting 4th house you have there!!!! And with Sun-Neptune conjunct, your experience of life itself will no doubt be very internal.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen

Last edited by R4VEN; 04-03-2012 at 02:37 AM. Reason: adding a PS
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 04-03-2012, 03:40 AM
stainedBlue's Avatar
stainedBlue stainedBlue is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 137
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
stainedBlue, I have emboldened the section of your quote which I found to be very interesting, and most of all a succinct account of the way in which Chiron works!! I find it interesting also that you used the word `sacrificed', because in my own long experience of personally working with Chiron, that is the one word which best describes what is required from an individual if we are to take advantage of our Chiron placement - and aspects.

If you check out an ephemeris, you will see that Chiron goes retrograde quite often, and sometimes for months. In her written work on Chiron, Barbara Hand Clow states that she believes those with Chiron Rx are the healers in the population. I believe that we are all healers, given that to work with our own Chiron placement we have a need to help others with theirs.

Chiron Rx seems quite subtle to me, but then again, my own natal Chiron is in direct motion, so I can only observe how it seems to operate for others. If we look at it in relation to how planets operate in Rx motion, it seem that when Chiron is Rx the person's whole chart may be influenced more powerfully by their Chiron, and also they may have a more internal drive and striving to work with Chiron, rather than avoiding it at all costs.

I've just had a quick flick through my saved charts looking for those with Chiron Rx - especially those close enough to me for me to be able to observe their lives. The only one in my family who has Chiron Rx is my youngest son. He definitely has worked consciously with a kind of psychological/spiritual approach to life since the age of 13. His Chiron placement is difficult - Rx in Taurus in the 6th, conjunct south node. His health has always been just a bit under par, and this has forced him to `turn inwards'. He also has a packed 12th house, but that's another story altogether!

And as to the difference between Chiron direct opposing Saturn and Chiron Rx opposing Saturn, I have never actually asked myself that question!! My guess would be that the expression of this aspect would tend to be turned inwards, rather than outwards. (The girl I mentioned in my last post has her Chiron direct in Cancer, and she has always directed the opposition to Saturn outwards - where her `opposition' presents to her in her outer life.)

And thanks for that question, stainedBlue. Your contributions always make me think, and I like that

PS. I just checked your chart, stainedBlue...........that's a really interesting 4th house you have there!!!! And with Sun-Neptune conjunct, your experience of life itself will no doubt be very internal.
It's good to know I have the right idea for Chiron. I've been particularly curious about Chiron direct, since I have the rx version of it, and viewing the expression of Chiron in others has proven to be somewhat difficult.

When I was younger I was also very inclined to questioning the authority of those that were the 'assumed authority,' and frequently questioned rules and regulations set in place by the various 'authorities.' I often met with the excuse "that's just the way things are," or something to that effect, which was very discouraging. Eventually I felt entirely defeated and largely stopped speaking for roughly three years. Not entirely silent, but significantly less vocalization than I had been employing.

For myself, at least, what you said about rx Chiron being more influential on the native, it's applicable. I've definitely gone out of my way to take it on rather than run from it. Reclaiming my voice has been anything but a walk in the park, and I'm still not out of the woods yet, but it has required substantial effort on my part and a lot of courage that I've actually felt impelled to put forward. Perhaps this is thanks to my Mars? There seems to be added emphasis on speaking my truth via the skipped step Uranus square to my nodal axis too -- though, this is probably a topic best left to another thread.

It's curious that you mention an inward psychological/spiritual approach. I've largely approached life the same way from a very early age, looking within myself for answers. I recall around age 10 coming to the conclusion that we have the universe within us, that we are the all, and the all is us. Reconciling that with my dogmatic Christian upbringing was a challenge, since I had actually found what was preached to be in many ways contrary to what the good book actually said, and often questioned it much to the chagrin of those around me that were immersed in the faith as it's preached.

Concerning my 4th house, at least in relation to this thread: my Parents have frequently been absent, or have been otherwise emotionally distant throughout my life. I've found them to be unreliable in their authority as responsible Parents because of that, and I've often found myself burdened with having to take on responsibilities that weren't mine to bear. This seems to be a Saturn in 4th type of experience, I think? Quite the loaded 4th nonetheless, and it's worth mentioning Neptune-Saturn is parallel by declination, and the same goes for Sun-Uranus, though with Sun-Uranus I suppose it further reinforces the already existing conjunction? But yes, my world is largely buried beneath the surface. A very rich, complex world.

Last edited by stainedBlue; 04-03-2012 at 03:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 04-03-2012, 04:11 AM
virgo18 virgo18 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Latin America
Posts: 1,746
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
......give or take a few months.

My question is this...................
For those of you who have this placement - Chiron opposition Saturn - how would you say it manifests in your life? What has been your relationship/experience of father/authority/hierarchical structures?

[Just musing about this aspect............
Perhaps amongst people with this natal aspect there is a rejection of what the father represents to them, and in response to this an inability to recognise the father/authority within themselves.
The trouble for me is that I know a number of young people with this aspect, and each one of them is totally different in their relation to father/authority.]

I am of 1989, and I have Chiron in cancer opp Saturn in Cap... My father just went away when I was little, he felt detached. When we met again the relationship just didn't work.
All my entire life I had the issue of why my father left the family, It was difficult to me to swallow, despite I didn't had any feeling toward my father, that represented a conflict within my self worth.

Other thing is that Saturn in bad aspect with Chiron makes the wound even more slow to heal. It represents a delaying in the work of healing that wound. But finally It will go away, or you will learn how to manage it without experiencing odd feelings.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 04-03-2012, 04:44 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

stainedBlue, thank you for articulating your experience of this placement.

I have to point out that your experience of `authority' from such an early age is an apt description of having Chiron in the 10th house. Consider what a 10th house Chiron can bestow:
* having a distant/authoritarian father (which may also be described in other areas of the chart)
* having a fractured and/or hazy idea of where your job/career is taking you
* experiencing issues with people in authority both at school and in the work-place
* feeling disconnected at your work-place - or by the work which you do
* needing to engage in work which is useful/healing/meaningful to you
* needing to work alone or in isolation - as in working in the wilderness on research, or working on the land

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I can see that your own experience of Chiron (Rx) opp Saturn is an extension of your natal Chiron placement - in the 10th.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 04-03-2012, 04:51 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by virgo18 View Post
I am of 1989, and I have Chiron in cancer opp Saturn in Cap... My father just went away when I was little, he felt detached. When we met again the relationship just didn't work.
All my entire life I had the issue of why my father left the family, It was difficult to me to swallow, despite I didn't had any feeling toward my father, that represented a conflict within my self worth.

Other thing is that Saturn in bad aspect with Chiron makes the wound even more slow to heal. It represents a delaying in the work of healing that wound. But finally It will go away, or you will learn how to manage it without experiencing odd feelings.
virgo18, thank you for sharing your own experience of Chiron opp Saturn.
Your experience is perhaps the definitive experience of one with this placement, although certainly not experienced by all who have this placement.

Consider also that Chiron in Cancer describes the wound of believing that you are not loved enough, or maybe you are not loveable, so a father who leaves is like salt being rubbed into that wound.

And I agree with what you say in your final paragraph.
Martin Lass, an astrologer who deals with Chiron almost exclusively, states that Chiron opp Saturn people avoid dealing with their wound - of father and/or authority - but I have found the opposite to be true of the late 80's generation. Perhaps what he may have meant is that it is such a deep wound that it does take a long time to work it through without it being constantly re-activated.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 04-03-2012, 06:57 AM
lazarusx lazarusx is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 357
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
Consider also that Chiron in Cancer describes the wound of believing that you are not loved enough, or maybe you are not loveable, so a father who leaves is like salt being rubbed into that wound.
Oh yeah, this is me all over. My Sun is closely conjunct Chiron in Cancer, there also both in opposition to Saturn/Neptune and Uranus. Not only that but chiron/sun is in my second house - Im of 1989.

There's never been a close connection with my father, he is the embodiment of Saturn without a doubt. Ex-millitary man, very strong work ethic, concern about financial/career security; he's worked overseas for most of his life including mine.. here for a couple of months, then gone for a few more.

So with this in mind, it was never possible even at a young age to connect with him on a deeper level, and as i've grown older i've come to understand how he express's his love to me through financial support rather then emotional support, my mum although not as distant as my father is similar.. so i've never really felt 'loved' in a sense, although i know they do. I do have a lot of respect for him however because i struggle so much with accepting responsibility, work ethic and in general establishing myself in this world.. i lack structure.

I don't know much in regards to Chiron so im not sure how much i can contribute. But i suppose if anything positive has developed from a seemingly crushed sense of self is that i've found understanding through spirituality and philosophy in relation to who i truly am, which has paved the way for a process of self-acceptance.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4VEN View Post
[Just musing about this aspect............
Perhaps amongst people with this natal aspect there is a rejection of what the father represents to them, and in response to this an inability to recognise the father/authority within themselves.
This sounds quite true for myself. Although in recent years i've come to understand my fathers actions a little more, and in turn have developed a new respect for authority which has changed my perspective on many things, i guess in a manner of speaking im beginning to see myself as apart of that which i had rejected previously, the separation is only imagined.

EDIT:

Added chart in-case it says more then i was able too
Attached Images
File Type: gif Chart.gif (49.8 KB, 13 views)
__________________
"He who binds to himself a joy
Doth the winged life destroy;
But he who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in eternity's sun rise."
- William Blake.

Last edited by lazarusx; 04-03-2012 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Added chart
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 04-03-2012, 03:59 PM
Munch Munch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle, Wa USA
Posts: 1,152
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by virgo18 View Post

Other thing is that Saturn in bad aspect with Chiron makes the wound even more slow to heal. It represents a delaying in the work of healing that wound. But finally It will go away, or you will learn how to manage it without experiencing odd feelings.

I certainly hope that's true. I feel like I've made zero progress towards moving past mine.
__________________
I am what I am. - Popeye



Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 04-04-2012, 12:30 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarusx View Post
This sounds quite true for myself. Although in recent years i've come to understand my fathers actions a little more, and in turn have developed a new respect for authority which has changed my perspective on many things, i guess in a manner of speaking im beginning to see myself as apart of that which i had rejected previously, the separation is only imagined.
That's an incredibly wise and powerful conclusion you have come to there, lazarusx. The only reason there is conflict in the world is due to the externalising of the conflict/splitting within ourselves.
Your externalised `authority' will always be a reflection of your inner authority. I think that this `reality' is what an opposition of any kind expresses.

As for the Chiron conjunct Sun...................
From what I am currently gathering in my random reading the conjunction of Chiron and Sun is a very sensitive placement (made moreso by the oppositions to the Cap planets) which pushes a person into expressing their Chiron wounding in order to work through it. If this can be done consciously, then it is less likely that damage will be done, both to the individual, and to others in their environment. The idea, apparently, with Chiron-Sun conjunction is to work through this wound using the northnode placement - in your case in the 9th house in Aquarius. Perhaps your interest in spirituality has a `wider' purpose in your life.

I'll leave your chart interpretation there, because it might be good for you to spend time on it and try to unravel it.

One thing I have found enormously useful in my astrological journey - and especially in my study of Chiron - is to examine the charts of people of prominence/infamy.
One such person who has interested me is Jim Jones, cult leader and instigator of the Jonestown massacre. He has Chiron-Sun conjunction in the 4th in Taurus, trining Saturn in the 1st in Capricorn. He was hugely driven by both this, as well as his Jupiter-Pluto conjunction, which led him to be powerfully interested in both death as well as religion. His father was damaged, and had on-going problems from being poisoned by cyanide gas in world war 1. It is no accident that in 1978 when he and his followers chose mass suicide his choice of mode of death was by cyanide poisoning. This shines a light on father/Saturn.

David Koresh (of the Waco massacre) was also a cult leader,and had Chiron opposite Sun, and Saturn very eary in Cap almost on his IC.
Both Koresh and Jones fathered many illegitimate children within their cults. The theme of father/authority-totally-gone-haywire is evident in men such as these.

I could go on, but that's enough rambling for now. I have digressed from Chiron opp Saturn.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 04-04-2012, 01:21 AM
byjove's Avatar
byjove byjove is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,009
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

I know very little about this but will read!

I have this natally.

Moon in Virgo
square
Saturn in Sagg
square
Venus in Pisces
square
Chiron in Gemini

Also noting Chiron has several 'negative' aspects in my chart but sextile a well placed Sun. Outlet?

Dad works hard and a lot, not out of disinterest in family but if anything he has taken onboard pains of others in the family, especially financial. I also have Sun/Saturn trine exactly, perhaps another influence. He's a very simple, practical man but I'm an ambitious intellectual, the only thing we have in common in every way is Mercury in Pisces; great dancers, lovers of music, poor memory, very compassionate and love helping others which karmically comes back to us.

Last edited by byjove; 04-04-2012 at 01:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 04-04-2012, 02:55 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Also noting Chiron has several 'negative' aspects in my chart but sextile a well placed Sun. Outlet?
As I view them, Chiron-Sun aspects tend to emphasise a sense of self in the native - either to overwhelm this sense of self, or to give a person the impetus to express themselves. I feel that the sextile falls into the latter category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Dad works hard and a lot, not out of disinterest in family but if anything he has taken onboard pains of others in the family, especially financial. I also have Sun/Saturn trine exactly, perhaps another influence. He's a very simple, practical man but I'm an ambitious intellectual, the only thing we have in common in every way is Mercury in Pisces; great dancers, lovers of music, poor memory, very compassionate and love helping others which karmically comes back to us.
I'm interested in what I have emboldened above, but I'm not sure why that is. It seems that your father has adopted a very traditional male role, and perhaps your job/drive will be in expressing your maleness in a different way.
With that square between Chiron and Venus, you will have no difficulty in forging a `different' gender path for yourself.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 04-04-2012, 03:11 AM
byjove's Avatar
byjove byjove is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,009
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Ah yes, I was about to get to that, it struck a bell. I'm gay as Christmas but few people guess I'm gay. I'm of the philosophy that gay of either gender doesn't mean adopting all of the characteristics of the opposite gender. (Though I understand we attach human characteristics to 'ideas' of what it is to be male or female and ultimately it's a ... human psychology game). Yes I have read Chiron aspects bring in a lot of questions about 'gender-bending' and all the stops along the way.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 04-04-2012, 03:52 AM
R4VEN's Avatar
R4VEN R4VEN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: under the Southern Cross
Posts: 2,864
Re: The Chiron opposition Saturn generation: 1986-1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Ah yes, I was about to get to that, it struck a bell. I'm gay as Christmas but few people guess I'm gay. I'm of the philosophy that gay of either gender doesn't mean adopting all of the characteristics of the opposite gender. (Though I understand we attach human characteristics to 'ideas' of what it is to be male or female and ultimately it's a ... human psychology game). Yes I have read Chiron aspects bring in a lot of questions about 'gender-bending' and all the stops along the way.
Ah - that makes me feel better. I was going to go further with that Chiron-Venus thing, but thought I'd wait and see how you responded to it.

Chiron-Venus square sometimes creates gender struggles in a person - which doesn't describe being gay at all, but `gayness' is one possibility. A young woman I know who is heterosexual - married with kids - hates (and I mean hates) the fact that she menstruates. That is her particular struggle with her gender, and she also has Chiron-Venus square. To quote Barbara Hand Clow, she says that "Chiron square Venus usually signals heavy past life karmic pressure having to do with gender identity."

Now, that can be expressed in a number of ways - anything from accepting one's sexual orientation to denying it completely, and everything in between. I think that this aspect would also describe someone who steps outside what is considered a `normal' role for their gender, and forges a new pathway, but one which allows them to feel comfortable with who they are.
__________________

"There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
- from Anthem
by Leonard Cohen
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chiron, generation, opposition, saturn

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tough Times Mark-Alexis Read My Chart 42 07-27-2011 03:44 AM
Ways to heal Chiron wounds Radu Karmic Astrology 222 06-07-2011 08:01 PM
Saturn Returns, RMC, Life guidance Oren Read My Chart 0 12-26-2010 08:35 AM
The Global Economic Crisis: What Now? Theo Mundane Astrology 16 03-02-2009 05:38 PM
The Saturn/Uranus opposition:A Powerplay in five Acts lillyjgc Education Board 1 10-24-2008 10:20 AM



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.