A Puzzle for Everyone.

There are two birthcharts here. The times are accurate. They are both identical twins (male). The person with the time 4:00 AM committed sucide, because the person who he was in love with was unavailable to him, the other, narrowly escaped the precarious circumstances of war and now resides in a different country and has been married for 25 years. There is a 10 min difference between the twins, yet they have lead very different lives. Can this difference be explained astrologically ?

I'm assuming that 10 mins can have a huge difference to what circumstances can be brought to a person later in life ? for example, in birth time rectifications, being mins out can mean you may be years out after tracing, the life events of the person in the past so an accurate birth time can be achieved.

I think it could involve the Ascendant decans. The 4:10 chart is at 20 degrees, the 3rd decan in Leo, Aries/Mars. Mars is exalted in Capricorn, with mostly easy aspects. With the 4:00 chart, its at 18 degrees, the 2nd decan, Sagittarius/Jupiter. It doesn't seem as if Jupiter would be too difficult in this chart, but it squares Neptune and theres a thread on suicide which associates Jupiter/Neptune aspects with the possibility of suicide. Also Venus conjunct Saturn was experienced differently. Theres the restrictive, unavailable type and the committed, dedicated type.

Note that Sun of the guy born at 4.10 is in the 1st house, therefore stronger than his brother´s Sun in 2nd house.

I think it is the person borned at 04:00 with AC on 18th degree that committed suicide.

And here is an interesting thing. Looking at Sabian symbols for their 8th house cusps (8th house, the house of death), the guy who commited suicide has here 17.28 Pisces.

Symbol for Pisces 18: IN A GIGANTIC TENT, VILLAGERS WITNESS A SPECTACULAR PERFORMANCE.
KEYNOTE: The collective appeal of a well-staged and exciting display of skill and/or oratory.
..... the individual person and the collectivity are brought together in a significant performance which subtly strengthens the communal spirit directly or indirectly. The implication of the symbol, whenever it is found operating, is that the time has come for the individual to dare to present himself and his works to his community for applause, or for the purpose of attracting a following. What is suggested is PUBLIC SELF-DRAMATIZATION.


That´s pretty accurate for a suicide, as it indeed can be seen as a public self-dramatization.


The second guy who survived the war has here Pisces 21. I know this symbol very well as it is my IC.
UNDER THE WATCHFUL AND KIND EYE OF A CHINESE SERVANT, A GIRL FONDLES A LITTLE WHITE LAMB.
KEYNOTE: Growth in consciousness in its earliest tactile awareness of the wonders of unsophisticated living.
.... It brings together past and future, an overlapping of levels. The Chinese kindly watching the white girl; the girl fondling the white lamb. There is charm and ingenuousness in the scene — a vision of WHITE HOPE, a hope for a future that can only be felt, almost naively.

I must assert that while astrology may describe the situation and expound on the why's and how's of what has happened, it was the individuals and their choices which determined the path. All the planets and stars together are not greater than the gift of God which is free will, given to every individual. A fatalist might look to astrology for clarification, but I must look to the individuals, especially when the charts are so very similar. All the placements and aspects are nearly identical. The only thing which moves fast enough to show a difference is the house setup. Can you really believe that the turning of the Earth would be more likely to determine life and death than free will choices?

ReclusiveHermit said:

There is a 10 min difference between the twins, yet they have lead very different lives. Can this difference be explained astrologically ?

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Yes, "there is a 10 min difference between the twins..."

Yennefer said:

Note that Sun of the guy born at 4.10 is in the 1st house, therefore stronger than his brother´s Sun in 2nd house.

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Baseless and of no relevance.

Both Suns are at 18° Virgo.

By Whole Sign, both Planets are in the 2nd Sign -- 2nd House.

For other House Systems, Sun is within 5° of the 2nd House Cusp and considered to be in the 2nd House.

Even modern astrologers would consider the Sun in the 2nd House since it no longer has any influence or power in the 1st House being within 2° of the 2nd House Cusp. Robert Pelletier, Robert Hand and others would tell you being in the last 10° of a House the Planet has no power in that House and "its energy spills over into the following House."

Yennefer said:

And here is an interesting thing. Looking at Sabian symbols for their 8th house cusps (8th house, the house of death), the guy who commited suicide has here 17.28 Pisces.

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And a different House System yields a different 8th House Cusp so that doesn't really say much about Silly Symbols.

Personally, I think the chart's FUBAR. Can't have Moon in Pisces at that time. The chart dates to fall of '54.