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  #151  
Unread 07-07-2016, 02:12 AM
magnolia8 magnolia8 is offline
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Lone wolf here Ever since childhood. My only real friendships ended mostly during that period, spent my entire adolescence and early 20s isolated, and I've only had short acquaintanceships in the last few years. One thing I realized several years ago is that I have deep-seated fear of being "revealed," and tend to think that the mere possibility of being SEEN means I'm exposed and vulnerable. Needless to say, I'm a homebody. I'm also socially awkward. However, I'm extremely independent and even selfish, as I do NOT care to deplete my energy/emotional reserves on others. I require very little external validation; I like being able to sustain myself, BY myself. The only point I can see for friendships is to have others in my corner in times of need.

I have:
Virgo rising (I think Mercury gives me too much nervous energy, which makes me self-conscious)
Saturn in the 4th, conjunct the IC, ruling the 5th
All but one personal planet, including chart ruler, in the 11th
Not sure whether truly fire dominant, but most of my planets are in fire. I am a Leo.
Moon sextile Uranus
Chiron in the 10th (I think this can make one feel socially awkward or just not fit in)

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  #152  
Unread 07-07-2016, 02:16 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by magnolia8 View Post
Lone wolf here Ever since childhood. My only real friendships ended mostly during that period, spent my entire adolescence and early 20s isolated, and I've only had short acquaintanceships in the last few years. One thing I realized several years ago is that I have deep-seated fear of being "revealed," and tend to think that the mere possibility of being SEEN means I'm exposed and vulnerable. Needless to say, I'm a homebody. I'm also socially awkward. However, I'm extremely independent and even selfish, as I do NOT care to deplete my energy/emotional reserves on others. I require very little external validation; I like being able to sustain myself, BY myself. The only point I can see for friendships is to have others in my corner in times of need.

I have:
Virgo rising (I think Mercury gives me too much nervous energy, which makes me self-conscious)
Saturn in the 4th, conjunct the IC, ruling the 5th
All but one personal planet, including chart ruler, in the 11th
Not sure whether truly fire dominant, but most of my planets are in fire. I am a Leo.
Moon sextile Uranus
Chiron in the 10th (I think this can make one feel socially awkward or just not fit in)
I have chiron in the 10th too.
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  #153  
Unread 07-08-2016, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
This is a really cool thread

I guess I'll give my opinions or thoughts even though this thread is practically dead.

For as long as I remember, I've always been kind of an outsider or loner. Someone on the side who just observes everything from a distance while focusing on my own matters.

I'm not necessarily anti-social and I really do enjoy good company and conversation, but I'm very picky with who I spend my time with and how much energy I'm going to give, therefore, I need to be with people I feel a true connection to, so that I can be sociable. I have Sun in the Leo in the 7th so I need to get out that extroverted energy. But very rarely do I find people that I want to talk to, which is why I have this lone wolf syndrome I guess

I have aspects in my chart that can indicate why.

-Capricorn Rising
-Saturn in the 3rd house
-Moon and mercury in the 8th house
-Saturn trine Moon and Mercury
-Scorpio MC
-Pluto in the 11th House
Well, Leo itself is the sign of individuality and the 7th house is more about intimate relationships (people you have a true connection to) than larger social networks (11th house)
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  #154  
Unread 07-08-2016, 03:29 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

It's interesting that everyone should mention Saturn. I'm NOT a Saturnian person at all and ironically, I believe this IS what makes me a "lone wolf." I see how a hard Mercury-Saturn (or a Venus-Saturn) aspect would make one inhibited or socially awkward but Saturn rules the 10th and 11th houses. To me, these are the most public houses. The 10th house symbolizes your professional life, your SOCIAL status, your public image, and the 11th house is THE HOUSE OF FRIENDS!
I see Saturn as having a better awareness of social rules and what it takes to succeed socially than any other planet

Last edited by craft94; 07-08-2016 at 03:44 AM.
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  #155  
Unread 07-09-2016, 02:53 AM
magnolia8 magnolia8 is offline
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
It's interesting that everyone should mention Saturn. I'm NOT a Saturnian person at all and ironically, I believe this IS what makes me a "lone wolf." I see how a hard Mercury-Saturn (or a Venus-Saturn) aspect would make one inhibited or socially awkward but Saturn rules the 10th and 11th houses. To me, these are the most public houses. The 10th house symbolizes your professional life, your SOCIAL status, your public image, and the 11th house is THE HOUSE OF FRIENDS!
I see Saturn as having a better awareness of social rules and what it takes to succeed socially than any other planet
Saturn can make you hyperaware of social rules, but that doesn't mean you're able or willing to abide by them with ease.
Saturn is rigid. If it's retrograde (as in my case), then the limitations, restrictions, delays and other synonyms for blockages, get turned inward. You can become very critical of your social self, including your accomplishments and appearance. People may find you intimidating or sober so that they don't feel at ease around you. Alternatively, you may be willing to break social rules if you realize you won't be hindered, or if you lack confidence. I think it's more of a stereotypically Venusian/Libran type that understands and plays by the social rules. They can be ruthless at that (I know, because I've come to realize in the last year that I'm able to do this - very much to my surprise - though infrequently).

edit: Also, LoL, sometimes I think Saturn is the typical misanthropist. Anyway, other Saturnians may have different experiences; as always, I think it depends on how Saturn is placed in the chart.

Last edited by magnolia8; 07-09-2016 at 02:58 AM.
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  #156  
Unread 07-09-2016, 03:26 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
Well, Leo itself is the sign of individuality and the 7th house is more about intimate relationships (people you have a true connection to) than larger social networks (11th house)
That is a very good point!
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  #157  
Unread 07-09-2016, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnolia8 View Post
Saturn can make you hyperaware of social rules, but that doesn't mean you're able or willing to abide by them with ease.
Saturn is rigid. If it's retrograde (as in my case), then the limitations, restrictions, delays and other synonyms for blockages, get turned inward. You can become very critical of your social self, including your accomplishments and appearance. People may find you intimidating or sober so that they don't feel at ease around you. Alternatively, you may be willing to break social rules if you realize you won't be hindered, or if you lack confidence. I think it's more of a stereotypically Venusian/Libran type (maybe even Leo) that understands and plays by the social rules. They can be ruthless at that (I know, because I've come to realize in the last year that I'm able to do this - very much to my surprise - it's not frequent, though).

edit: Also, LoL, sometimes I think Saturn is the typical misanthropist. Anyway, other Saturnians may have different experiences; as always, I think it depends on how Saturn is placed in the chart.
As a Libra, I'll admit I don't know where most of these stereotypes come from because most of the traits attributed to us, are the very traits that cause me to have difficulty with Capricorns! (Though in some ways, you could argue that these signs aren't really that different when you think about it)

Libra has a strong awareness of other people (a sense of justice) and Saturn is actually exalted in Libra, which makes a lot of sense (I'd say Saturn is more justice-orientated than Venus is - justice isn't always pleasant). However, Venus isn't really about social rules in the same sense Saturn is. The way I see it, Saturn is the rule follower (or the rule maker?) and Uranus is the rule breaker (not talking strictly about people here!). Venus isn't really about rules at all. Venus itself is neither rebellious or rigid. Venus is about relationships, love, romance, beauty. Your ability to seduce and your ability to climb up the social ladder are two very different things.

Like, I've been called socially awkward. I've never been popular and I've always had a hard time making friends. But not a hard time keeping them. It isn't hard for me to relate to people. I don't see myself as having bad interpersonal skills at all, just bad social-climbing skills, and tbh, I can't say I put much effort into cultivating these skills! I like to talk and I like to socialize, but only if we're actually talking. I don't have bad conversation skills, but let's say I'm at a party, I'm going to keep to myself (possibly get depressed!) and wait for someone to talk to me. I get lost and confused in crowds. I find that amongst groups, people are much less honest, they're always trying desperately to fit in, and as a result, no real communication (Mercury) or intimacy (Venus) takes place. I don't mind talking about nothing for the sake of talking so long as it's honest nothing but don't forget, the element of air is about IDEAS and we live in a world where it's much more socially acceptable to talk about the weather and if that's all you can talk about, I'd rather talk to my journal

Saturn can be misanthropic and antisocial but it can also be hierarchal. Venus isn't either one of these things.

Venus is much warmer, more empathetic, than Saturn is. Saturn is colder, more detached, but often, that's what life, the game of social climbing, requires. In middle school, for example, kids will often their social dominance by bullying others (I wouldn't necessarily say this is Saturnian but it definitely isn't Venusian), and others would join in, so as to not get bullied themselves. Vulnerability, or empathy, or the expression of feeling - these things can be seen as weaknesses, thereby ruining your chances at social success. Sometimes, this changes as you get older but sometimes, sadly, it doesn't.

Earth signs and Saturnians are often quiet, more introverted, but in my experience (not saying this is always the case), this quietness often stems from a fear of saying anything out of the norm and not fitting in, or as you said, self-judgement. Gemini is more social, more conversational than say, Capricorn, Taurus or Scorpio, but if you like to talk, the odds are you'll say things that get you ostracized. Gemini has good people skills but (as a sign) it doesn't lack confidence and therefore doesn't worry so much about "fitting in" or people think it's crazy. In my EXPERIENCE, Gemini is more "social" but Capricorn is more "normal" (by my own definitions). The same can be said of Leo: not everyone appreciates seeing confidence in others and if you're confident, you're not going to worry much about being appreciated by others!

Tbh you wouldn't constantly hear and read about how many people hate Libra and Gemini if they were really as popular and well-liked as everyone says.

. Out of all the elements, I feel earth signs understand me the least and I, them (despite having an earth moon!). I find that they're often critical, rigid, misanthropic and judgmental of anything outside the established conventions and social norms. Of course this isn't always the case. Just my experience with certain people (usually lacking in air/mutable influence)

I'm not saying that Saturn isn't a lone wolf. I can totally see how it is. I'm just not sure what this "lone wolf syndrome" actually means. I don't think there's any one planet or aspect or whatever that indicates this because it can mean many different things depending on your outlook, and sometimes this conflicts with the steretoypes.

The 7th house is about interpersonal relationships, contracts, partnerships. The 10th house is about social status, your public persona. The 11th house is about community, friendship. All of this is simplified but I think it's important to distinguish between these areas of life. Someone may be skilled in 10th house matters but not 7th house matters and vice versa.
(On another note, the 2nd house, also ruled by Venus, is about material possessions)
A lot of this is just subjective opinion but hopefully I'm making at least a little bit of a sense?

Last edited by craft94; 07-09-2016 at 04:33 AM.
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  #158  
Unread 07-09-2016, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
That is a very good point!
Thank you!
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  #159  
Unread 07-09-2016, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by magnolia8 View Post
One thing I realized several years ago is that I have deep-seated fear of being "revealed," and tend to think that the mere possibility of being SEEN means I'm exposed and vulnerable.
I VERY much relate to this (not so much the second part of what you said). I blame my Scorpio stellium in the 6th house especially since retrograde Venus is located there.

It's funny. My Sun and Ascendant are both social signs but their rulers are both in retrograde/afflicted in some way!
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  #160  
Unread 07-12-2016, 01:00 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnolia8 View Post
Saturn can make you hyperaware of social rules, but that doesn't mean you're able or willing to abide by them with ease.
Saturn is rigid. If it's retrograde (as in my case), then the limitations, restrictions, delays and other synonyms for blockages, get turned inward. You can become very critical of your social self, including your accomplishments and appearance. People may find you intimidating or sober so that they don't feel at ease around you. Alternatively, you may be willing to break social rules if you realize you won't be hindered, or if you lack confidence. I think it's more of a stereotypically Venusian/Libran type that understands and plays by the social rules. They can be ruthless at that (I know, because I've come to realize in the last year that I'm able to do this - very much to my surprise - though infrequently).

edit: Also, LoL, sometimes I think Saturn is the typical misanthropist. Anyway, other Saturnians may have different experiences; as always, I think it depends on how Saturn is placed in the chart.
I don't know how my original comment disappeared. Maybe I accidentally deleted it, when trying to edit it? I can't imagine it actually being deleted by someone else.
[Moderator note: your post indicated you deleted it so I restored it since you clearly didn't want it deleted]

But I'll give you a shortened version:

What you're saying about Libra makes sense. Saturn is actually exalted in Libra. In my opinion (you may not agree), it has just as, or at least almost as much, influence on the sign as Venus does. Like, I don't see a direct connection between the legal system (represented by the scales) and the goddess of love. The way I see it, Saturn is about rules...as you said, Saturn is very rigid. Uranus is about breaking those rules. Venus itself has nothing to do with rules. Venus represents love, sexuality, beauty, and the feminine. The planet itself is neither a rebel nor a conformist, but could be either (or neither?) depending on the placement, the person's choices, and the social/cultural norms of the time.

It's not that I can't see Saturn as being a lone wolf. I can totally see it. Saturn can be very cold, ruthless, and like you said, misanthropic. I am not misanthropic at all, but I find it impossible to fit into rigid social structures, and I would consider myself as a "lone wolf" as a result of this. I'm not a misanthrope, but a misfit.

Back to the whole Venus Vs. Saturn issue, the 7th house is about partnerships, one-on-one, the balance between self and other. The 11th house is broader. The 11th house is more about the group, the community, your wider social network. The 10th house is about social status, your public image. These things are different. Someone may excel at 7th house matters but fail at 10th and 11th house matters and vice versa.

Mainly, what I'm trying to say is that there are different types of "lone wolfs." It isn't decided by one aspect or planet that determines it, and it's interesting to me how people with such opposite charts can both be lone wolfs - but for different reasons, and different motivations.

Last edited by wilsontc; 07-12-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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  #161  
Unread 07-12-2016, 05:10 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Neptune also deals with seclusion, isolation caused by escapism.
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  #162  
Unread 08-28-2016, 05:17 AM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

For me almost everything in my chart indicates lone wolf syndrome.

1) Sun in Capricorn in conjuction with two planets in Capricorn, and squaring mars in pisces in 12th and squaring Jupiter in Aries in 1st.

2) Moon in Pisces in the 12th squared by my Capricorn midheaven, opposite my Ceres in Virgo, squaring my Uranus in Aquarius(I forgot which house), a sextile from neptune in Aquarius in the 11th, and a conjunction with my ascendant in Aries in the 12th house.

3) Mars in pisces in 12th. Although its really bad placement, its not as prominent because its aspected pretty well.

3) Mercury in Capricorn in 10th house squared by Jupiter and in conjuction with Juno and Pallas in Capricorn. Not the worst placement, especially since its in aspect with my godly Jupiter. Even though its a square with my Jupiter, its said that even bad aspects with beneficial planets are still really good.

4) Pluto in saggitarius in the 8th with bad aspects and conjucting my Venus in sag in the 9th. Not that bad, but still kinda ****** cuz my Pluto in 8th, bringing an increased likely hood of death in personal life.

5) Saturn in Taurus in the 1ST.
This is the only one I'm gonna explain because its the only one I feel really I need to emphasize on how bad it is. Because the 1st house is the house of self, personality, character, and things alike, when Saturn(restriction, limitations) is the ruler, you pretty much don't really have a personality. Low self confidence, no enthusiasm, you name it. Its basically the personification of Saturn. And I have a almost 100% Capricorn sun to begin with. Just about any Saturn in my chart is bad. Yeah my other placements are as bad as it gets, but Saturn in the 1st is just the worst placement ever. Saturn is planet of misfortune. Imagine misfortune as a person. That's me. And yeah I have Jupiter in Aries and its in the 1st, which is literally the opposite of my saturn in 1st, except all my other placements weight it out.


I have the worst chart ever

Last edited by STR8MURK; 08-28-2016 at 05:38 AM.
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  #163  
Unread 08-28-2016, 02:11 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

craft94,

you made some interesting points about Saturn - having many planets in the sign it rules I can relate to most of them though with a strong Pisces/Neptune influence in my own chart I'm not prototypical Saturn even if the introversion applies. Saturn tends to represent qualities which a person is initially unusually inept at expressing or controlling so overall its function is to force you to confront and develop them throughout life. It's also the planet of "what will other people think" sort of thinking so it can drive someone with a strong Saturn to stay away from other people as they feel whatever they are not good at is on full display all the time. So from this perspective Saturn can definitely contribute to being a loner. The climbing of the social ladder often comes from trying to get "above" the dangerous environment one perceives themselves to be in rather than some overwhelming respect for convention. So by this reasoning Saturn placed in h5 - h8 (as well as to a lesser degree in 10 or 11) can drive one toward isolation.

The point theV made about the 12th house is very valid in my experience - any planets placed here won't fit the norm and won't express themselves as you would expect in any other house. They seem to disappear from view unless you happen to know the person very well. So a loaded 12th can be an indication that one's path is not mainstream and they may well choose to go about their life in ways most people won't understand or make any sense of - this seems to ring true with Moon/Mercury/Venus placed there especially from what I've seen. The Sun isn't as directly affected, at least not outwardly.

One planet not mentioned here is Chiron - this one can cause one to strongly separate from the collective when it's linked to personal planets or the individual may try and fail and then shun further involvement as they see it not working out. I won't go into Chiron but it's always worth looking up.

Finally there is the curious expression of Venus in Taurus vs Libra - one is very much text book Venus, the other is more subtle to interpret. Venus has to do with form and the fitting together of patterns at an intellectual level (as well as the beauty themes of Taurus) so from what I have seen of Libras they like to try and make their lives harmonious by applying Venus principles to them - things out to go well together, there should be a sensible pattern to it all, if at all possible one should approach issues fairly and rationally. I once read that Saturn's exaltation in this sign is because Saturn represents these Venus principles turned into concrete reality - making structures that tend to work out well because they are fair and balanced by design as per Venus. Though thoughts welcome on this point.

STR8MURKINY0A55,

do you have your chart posted anywhere? It would be interesting to look at with where your planets are placed and what aspects they make to each other. It does look like your 12th planets are going to give you some reclusive traits and with Saturn in 1st those are going to be backed up by Saturn pushing down on you whenever you're involved with the world - but one good thing about Saturn is that it sort of lets go of you once it passes its natal position around 29. So the first three decades are the hardest with it.

Pluto in the 8th doesn't necessarily mean death through intimate relationships but it can point to that area of your life being very transformative for you, which can be taken in both a good and a bad sense. For sure it won't be bland.
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  #164  
Unread 08-28-2016, 07:54 PM
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Re: lone wolf syndrome

Planets in the 8th, 12 houses.

Prominent Pluto (whether angular or highly aspected)

Scorpio angular.
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