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Modern Astrology For discussions on Modern Astrology only. (Note: Typically, modern astrology is defined as using techniques developed around the late 1800s by Theosophists. Specifically it relies on psychological, evolutionary, karmic, and non-western interpretation approaches and includes Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, and non-Ptolemaic aspects. The focus is more on psychological chart interpretation instead of prediction.)


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  #26  
Unread 02-29-2016, 05:40 PM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
So with Pluto in the 7th opposite asc...could we say that the native doesn't want the things associated with the 7th, but is attracted to it anyway?
Like katydid mentioned, it is a push-pull. They are attracted and repelled.

However, it is your chart. 7th house planets "activate" in one-on-one dealings, and you may not even notice, because your self-identity is associated with the opposing 1st house. The Pluto/DSC person is attracted to a devoted, intense, passionate partner. Now, if a partner is intense and passionate, they won't just be so in ways deemed "acceptable" by the Pluto person. The Pluto person is themselves possessive, intense, and a bit controlling (although depending on their chart they may or may not accept this). In so being they will repel more lighthearted partners and attract those who are intensely devoted. Also, the Pluto person may be "off and on", sometimes passionate and sometimes cold. When things become too intense, in their opinion, they may turn off. They may do or say things that suggest they could leave at any time. This can cause their partner to act out.

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  #27  
Unread 02-29-2016, 06:18 PM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

Also,

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Wanna laugh? Two of my past ex girlfriends tried to kill me. One with a knife, the other with her car. I never understood how or why anyone would feel so strongly as to want to kill another,
I don't want to go too off-topic so if you'd like you can start another thread on crazy Plutonic love (or something like that). I can add a lot to that since I have Sun and Venus in the 8th house. I've never wanted to kill someone but I can understand the underlying feelings.
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  #28  
Unread 03-01-2016, 01:42 AM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by amaranthinefall View Post
I'm not quite up to speed on the significations of Pluto, would anyone care to give a general summary? I have Pluto in Scorpio in the First House within 5 degrees of the Ascendant.
PL in this position and sign confers great physical regeneration powers, and great endurance. Plus the ability to gaze though to the heart of a person.

You will go through many changes, and come out actually looking different.

it also confers the ability here to not be noticed in a room.

you will always notice things going on, but may keep most observations to yourself.
people that are not putt off, will confide in you. you confide little, but only to those very close to you.

watch your gaze, you can provoke with it.

daniel
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  #29  
Unread 03-01-2016, 05:49 PM
Freya39 Freya39 is offline
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
I have Pluto in the seventh, opposite asc, trine Neptune, Jupiter and Chiron (Did I spell that right?) and square my Moon. Tbh, I have no idea how to describe said placement. I've been told that the seventh house is the house of others and that planets in said house are hard for the native to discuss, though how much truth that holds is unknown to me. All I know is that I don't know what this placement is like.

Perhaps that's the nature of the seventh house? Will Pluto forever be an unknown to me since it opposes the house of the self?

Other people have told me that at times I appear angry or bothered. I've also been told I have a "Look of death" about me when in deep thought, though, I think that's bs.

The strangest thing about my Pluto In Scorpio, is how it's Conjunct my fathers Moon/Saturn while his own Pluto in Leo is conjunct my moon and South node.

The 7th house is associated to partnership, projections, marriage, and relationships. If the first houses help us establish how we are singular beings, separate and different from every other, the cusp of the 7th house reconnect us to others. Also, the 7th reflect what we receive in and deliver to a partnership.
Any planet in the 7th house will show the way you manifest yourself in relationship. Moreover, the 7th house may represent the qualities we admire in a partner, the traits and skills that we may feel we do not possess ourselves. To analyze the meaning of your 7th house, it’s very important to pay attention to the Descendent sign, and the ruler of the 7th house.
Then Pluto in 7th house symbolically may slow things, or Pluto can bring pressure, or even can determined you to have some transformation. On the other way, the house where Pluto is located is likely to contain many secrets.
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  #30  
Unread 03-01-2016, 06:03 PM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by StillOne View Post

Do you notice when Pluto is in an Angular House that the archetypes of Pluto come out stronger? Care to share any examples?

ps. I realize the whole chart needs to be considered. I'm trying to get some discussion going in this new section!

Our actual president of the republic, Sergio Mattarella, gets Pluto in the X house. Conjuncts the Sun and trines Mars. When he was Minister of the Defence, he instituted an investigation-commission about the correlation between the use of uranium in war and the cases of epidemics. He had tried to throw light about the situation. I think it is one of the clearest cases one can get of an angular Pluto.
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  #31  
Unread 04-08-2016, 03:53 AM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

With Scorpio Rising and Pluto sitting in my 1st House, I've always wondered how others viewed me. I'm very shy/reserved so I don't think that I come off intense or sexually magnetic. Although two astrologers who have done a in-person reading for me, both claimed I struck them more as Scorpio Rising because there was an intensity to me and my eyes were very hypnotic.
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  #32  
Unread 04-08-2016, 11:40 AM
daniel daniel is offline
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by druex View Post
With Scorpio Rising and Pluto sitting in my 1st House, I've always wondered how others viewed me.
A double whammy. They probably see a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
This would be more-so with pluto conjunct the Ascendant

Pluto conjunct the Ascendant can cover a Leo Ascendant with a reticent nature and much mystery and intrigue.
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  #33  
Unread 04-08-2016, 05:54 PM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by daniel View Post
A double whammy. They probably see a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
This would be more-so with pluto conjunct the Ascendant

Pluto conjunct the Ascendant can cover a Leo Ascendant with a reticent nature and much mystery and intrigue.
I'm actually a Leo Sun with a stellium to add but my Scorpio Rising definitely hides the Leo essence strongly.
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  #34  
Unread 04-11-2016, 03:45 AM
Iced8Ace Iced8Ace is offline
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

New section?

I have Pluto in Sag in my 4th house square Virgo ascendant. Even though I have pleasant aspects to my ASC, people are sometimes afraid of me initially. I have strong presence, which I can shut on or off. It's actually quite funny.... I always notice when people are uncomfortable and I feel a bit rude not accommodating them. Could be Venus square Pluto.

I have always, since a very young age, been good at hiding secrets. I've gotten away with so much in my youth---it's funny looking back on how controlled everything was but how I still sort of ran things. The downside to this placement is that I really can't hurt anyone, so instead, I become the victim of immature power plays and it seem like they extend to all corners of my life such as work, relationships, friendships etc. Still getting a handle on this one.
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  #35  
Unread 04-11-2016, 12:43 PM
daniel daniel is offline
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

I have found, with strong pluto to ascendant aspects, if one does not responsibly own
those dark energies, that they find them selves on the receiving end of abuse and over
reaching power. This can take many forms. For me it was sexual abuse as a child.

Eventually i came to understand that i had to be on my own and this healing ability
was my strength. Even in holding onto the pain, i could see the toxins and learned to let
this go, as well. Now i find myself sharing and uplifting those in similar situations.

The responsibility comes in not allowing this dark energy to become outwardly
manifesting, as in one who is very controlling , angry or forcefully opinionated,
nor being one who allows this to be foisted on them,
but to recognize the overall patterns in humanity and to be a positive force for healing.

daniel

Last edited by daniel; 04-11-2016 at 12:46 PM.
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  #36  
Unread 04-12-2016, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
Amarinthe - you have a picture of a metamorphosis cacooned butterfly caterpiller thing as your pic. I think you've already figured it out! The miracle of life that comes from the degeneration of that which can no longer survive as it was.

Nonetheless, Pluto on AC could be considered one cool cucumber - an individual who has great composure at times most needed, never setting sights on something that isn't already in their grasp. Pluto on first cusp gives a person a great sense of grasp - of themselves and how to react to others , but how it is used depends on the other factors of charts, for positive or negative. It is a powerful energy source for you if your other angular houses are fixed and within degrees - Pluto can bowl and dig through anything in its way in first house and the rest of the angles. Ain't always pretty, but it is always effective in purpose.

So, purpose comes into play in the angles if you have fixed signs on 1,4,7,10.


That's my cliff note belief of Pluto. After that, it's up for grabs by Moon relationship.
I have been told I am cool as a cucumber. However, Pluto is also conjunct Saturn and square Mars and Moon. Seriously intense and martial at the same time? I have been mistaken for a Scorpio before.

My Leo Sun is in the 10th house. I pursue most objectives with a purpose or, at least, a sense of adventure.
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  #37  
Unread 04-19-2016, 08:37 PM
jamandjelly jamandjelly is offline
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
I have Pluto in the 4th, which makes a (too wide, IMO) 8 degree square to my Ascendant. I agree with jamandjelly.

I did once have a woman run up to me on the train and ask, "Are you a Scorpio?" but I also have my chart ruler (Sun in Pisces) in the 8th house trine Pluto and Mercury in the 7th partile square Pluto so that could have been what she was picking up on.

How has that 8H sun manifested in your life?


I know others with an angular Pluto but it is difficult to pick apart from the other energies in their chart...

Agreed

My boyfriend has Pluto conjunct the Descendant (but from the 6th hse). He has been described as the "strong and silent type", but his Moon is in the 12th hse opposed Pluto so I'm sure that is part of it.

My father has Pluto exactly conjunct the MC and before they know him, people usually see him as intense, powerful, and private. He also has an 8th house stellium including the Sun and Moon, however.
Interesting that you inherited that 8H sun from him
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  #38  
Unread 04-29-2016, 12:39 AM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

Other people will be obsessed with such a person and even people the native doesn't know will have great interest in them and their life.
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  #39  
Unread 08-04-2016, 01:41 AM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by Alkaid View Post
Other people will be obsessed with such a person and even people the native doesn't know will have great interest in them and their life.
Acquaintances or "friends of friends" get really into me, or some people I meet right off the bat. Definitely not as many as this placement suggests. My mom's wedding was a few months ago and I met a lot of guests, nobody I really spoke to deeply at length but they still talk about me to her. They say all kinds of crazy sh** like they somehow know me and that I'm special and that they've glanced into my soul but I'm like, "I just offered you some macaroons, thanked you for coming and left..." I have people I'll meet in passing that will be come up to me later and act like we're best friends when we had about 10 seconds of conversation before I excused myself. I don't say much although I feel a responsiblity to make a good impression during certain situations (Leo Stellium in Midheaven, which pluto squares) so maybe that's it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by druex View Post
With Scorpio Rising and Pluto sitting in my 1st House, I've always wondered how others viewed me. I'm very shy/reserved so I don't think that I come off intense or sexually magnetic. Although two astrologers who have done a in-person reading for me, both claimed I struck them more as Scorpio Rising because there was an intensity to me and my eyes were very hypnotic.
^ This. I have the same placement, Scorpio rising with Pluto in 1st, but I don't consider myself sexy. When I try to be it's like "too much" and people shrink away. Maybe we're not "owning" this placement?


The only two things I've noticed are when I'm 100% done and in public it looks a little like this:


I've had a couple people say I intimidated them when we first met. I'm 5'2", small frame. I know I have a certain stare when I'm angry or want to get a point across. Maybe it's a blessing of a Pluto-Mars square but it's an effective way of putting the fear of God in someone.

And I'm in a constant state of self improvement/exploration/evolution. It's never ending. I had a tarot card reader do a spread for me, she pulled the Death card for "Whom you serve." I thought it was fitting...
__________________
"When you don't have this dying and becoming you are only a sad guest in the dark Earth."

Last edited by IfIKnewBetter; 08-04-2016 at 01:45 AM.
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  #40  
Unread 08-04-2016, 02:12 AM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by IfIKnewBetter View Post
Acquaintances or "friends of friends" get really into me, or some people I meet right off the bat. Definitely not as many as this placement suggests. My mom's wedding was a few months ago and I met a lot of guests, nobody I really spoke to deeply at length but they still talk about me to her. They say all kinds of crazy sh** like they somehow know me and that I'm special and that they've glanced into my soul but I'm like, "I just offered you some macaroons, thanked you for coming and left..." I have people I'll meet in passing that will be come up to me later and act like we're best friends when we had about 10 seconds of conversation before I excused myself. I don't say much although I feel a responsiblity to make a good impression during certain situations (Leo Stellium in Midheaven, which pluto squares) so maybe that's it?



^ This. I have the same placement, Scorpio rising with Pluto in 1st, but I don't consider myself sexy. When I try to be it's like "too much" and people shrink away. Maybe we're not "owning" this placement?


The only two things I've noticed are when I'm 100% done and in public it looks a little like this:


I've had a couple people say I intimidated them when we first met. I'm 5'2", small frame. I know I have a certain stare when I'm angry or want to get a point across. Maybe it's a blessing of a Pluto-Mars square but it's an effective way of putting the fear of God in someone.

And I'm in a constant state of self improvement/exploration/evolution. It's never ending. I had a tarot card reader do a spread for me, she pulled the Death card for "Whom you serve." I thought it was fitting...

I wonder how we own it? Lol
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  #41  
Unread 08-04-2016, 02:31 PM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

I have Scorp Pluto in the 1st house as well, but the only major aspects are to the Moon, Saturn, Jupiter and Neptune. I must look scary when I'm bus with something, because I've had my friends ask me if I was alright. Other than that, I'm good at giving the Stare Of Death.
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  #42  
Unread 08-07-2016, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkaid View Post
Other people will be obsessed with such a person and even people the native doesn't know will have great interest in them and their life.
This happens to me often. Sometimes people have strong reactions to me- for better or for worse. They either get excited (wow! you did what?!) or I get under their skin (roll eyes at me) for seemingly no reason at all. I have had people stare at me and follow me around my neighborhood, even after just saying 'Hi' in passing. I also find some people take a bizarre interest in me, my life and start asking way too many questions. I have Pluto in Libra conj. ascendant and Saturn, square Mars, Moon, and MC.

Last edited by Ambitious; 08-07-2016 at 12:51 PM.
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  #43  
Unread 08-17-2016, 02:50 AM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

o:

I have Pluto in the 4th - Squaring Sun, Mercury, Venus and Moon. Strangely Trine my Leo ascendant, even though my Pluto is in Scorpio. It's also Trine Saturn in Pisces, out-of-sign conjunct my early degree domicile Jupiter and sextile Chiron, Neptune and Uranus.

I've never realized how many aspects I had until now. Going to do some reading on Pluto tomorrow. xD
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  #44  
Unread 10-29-2016, 09:24 AM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

I have pluto and moon in scorpio conjoining the MC they are almost inside the 10th house
Moon-pluto conjoing each other too

Im cap sun and rising my ruler is saturn in 12th house (im not an attention seeker or someone
who likes to "show off")

moon in scorpio rules my 6th 7th house and pluto my 10th

People are drawn to me like a i have a magnet in my body

They tend to pay a lot of attention to me for no reason
Sometimes it becomes annoying as hell because i am not an attention seeker i love privacy




strangers approach me for no reason and they start asking me questions without meaning just to start a conversation with me




So i believe pluto in conjuction or in angular houses 1st,4th,7th,10th mostly in 1st and 10th house ,can create plutonian magnetic
situations.

it will exude magnetism,mystery or can even makes the person charismatic-mesmerizing
at its negative effect can cause fear to people who dont know you (depends the aspects)





i noticed that pluto is the dominant in my natal chart (because of the aspects to the midheaven and to personal planets)
even though i have 4 planets and my rising in capricorn

i believe the dominant pluto may play a huge role in all these things

I remember few years back a close friend of mine (astrologer) who checked my natal chart
he told me this.

"you are a very magnetic personality
if you didnt had that tendency to analyze criticize the situations and people around you
people would love to have you around them .
fix these and your life can change dramatically."

Last edited by MadArchitect; 11-07-2016 at 05:43 PM.
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  #45  
Unread 10-31-2016, 07:00 PM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

I have Pluto in Scorpio in Descendant. Ruler of 7th house is Venus in Scorpio. I think you probably know how this Pluto manifests its power. All these themes of Pluto and Scorpio are highlighted in my chart, so it means there are power struggles, manipulation, sexual drive, obsession and control in my relationships. Probably in all my relationship there was one partner dominant and other submissive. Taking control in relationship is probably the main topic in relationship with this Pluto on Descendant.

I think people with this position of Pluto should learn how to deal with this strong energy in relationship and try to find balance in their relationships. Stop to abuse power which they have over their partner or stop to be a victim of the manipulation´s tendencies of their partner. It´s nothing for weak personalities.

Last edited by tisha83; 10-31-2016 at 07:04 PM.
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  #46  
Unread 11-01-2016, 12:53 PM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by tisha83 View Post
I have Pluto in Scorpio in Descendant. Ruler of 7th house is Venus in Scorpio. I think you probably know how this Pluto manifests its power. All these themes of Pluto and Scorpio are highlighted in my chart, so it means there are power struggles, manipulation, sexual drive, obsession and control in my relationships. Probably in all my relationship there was one partner dominant and other submissive. Taking control in relationship is probably the main topic in relationship with this Pluto on Descendant.

I think people with this position of Pluto should learn how to deal with this strong energy in relationship and try to find balance in their relationships. Stop to abuse power which they have over their partner or stop to be a victim of the manipulation´s tendencies of their partner. It´s nothing for weak personalities.




pluto in any angular houses 1st,4th,7th,10th usually causes all that especially if the planet conjoins the house
but in its domicile(scorpio)and with good aspects,its very powerfull
gives power magnetism and the ability for transformation
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Unread 11-01-2016, 01:00 PM
tisha83 tisha83 is offline
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by MadArchitect View Post
pluto in any angular houses 1st,4th,7th,10th usually causes all that especially if the planet conjoins the house
but in its domicile(scorpio)and with good aspects,its very powerfull
gives power magnetism and the ability for transformation
Yes, you´re right. Pluto in Scorpio, placed on Ascendant or on Descendant, gives his owner a strong magnetism toward other people, but there is a strong danger of abuse its power, taking control and manipulate others. These dark sides of Pluto in Scorpio are highlighted in angular position in 1st or 7th house. The potentional of total personal transformation is enourmous in this case, but also big danger to abuse its power. I think that very important is to lear to control Pluto´s power toward others and not abuse it. Like it was said, everything will come back to you.
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  #48  
Unread 11-01-2016, 02:58 PM
MadArchitect MadArchitect is offline
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by tisha83 View Post
Yes, you´re right. Pluto in Scorpio, placed on Ascendant or on Descendant, gives his owner a strong magnetism toward other people, but there is a strong danger of abuse its power, taking control and manipulate others. These dark sides of Pluto in Scorpio are highlighted in angular position in 1st or 7th house. The potentional of total personal transformation is enourmous in this case, but also big danger to abuse its power. I think that very important is to lear to control Pluto´s power toward others and not abuse it. Like it was said, everything will come back to you.

1st and 10th houses are the most "obvious"houses and the most important for our "outside" impression to others

the 7th house (descendant) is the opposite of the ascendant.

which means it shows the last impression people have about you after they already met you.

7th house shows obvious enemies our relationships with others,marriage etc


1st is the most important for first impression and then is the 10th.

because 10th house its our highest point in natal chart and also shows how the "public""society" (people who dont know us)
see us
how we tend to look in public.


for example you may have sun and rising libra but you have pluto conjoining the 10th house axis ,this may influence how you look to other people to
"society"and "public"
10th house is the house of reputation
but the most important is the 1st .


in your case shows the impression you give to others after they already met you,

they become very obsessed with you ,and its tough for them to forget you


be carefull though because pluto ALWAYS gives a love or hate with passion situation

other people may love you with passion and some others may hate you with passion
or maybe the contrary you may love or hate others with passion

everything pluto does its always extreme dont forget that scorpio is the sign of the extremes.and pluto in scorpio its in domicile.

but again its depends the aspects

you also have to look your dominant planet in your natal chart and dominant signs to somehow get an idea of yourself the planet and signs that influence your character and life

dont go on astro.com and do the pullen astrolog thing the results it gives are usually hella innacurate (most users say this and even astrologers)


astrotheme.com has the most accurate planetery dominancy system (but you have to pay)

If you dont want to pay on astrotheme.com

try this http://gordianobrunati.com/cgi-bin/cal01EN.cgi but its not that accurate but its better than astro.com


but astrotheme.com has the best accurate analysis results in planet- sign -house dominancy

Last edited by MadArchitect; 11-07-2016 at 05:45 PM.
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  #49  
Unread 11-01-2016, 05:37 PM
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

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Originally Posted by tisha83 View Post
Yes, you´re right. Pluto in Scorpio, placed on Ascendant or on Descendant, gives his owner a strong magnetism toward other people, but there is a strong danger of abuse its power, taking control and manipulate others. These dark sides of Pluto in Scorpio are highlighted in angular position in 1st or 7th house. The potentional of total personal transformation is enourmous in this case, but also big danger to abuse its power. I think that very important is to lear to control Pluto´s power toward others and not abuse it. Like it was said, everything will come back to you.
pluto on the descendant does not exude the energy of pluto so raw and intense like when it is in 1st or maybe the 10th which is the MC
unless if your pluto of descendant conjoins the 7th house axis or does conjuction with other planets

conjuctions tend to express the energy of the planet way more intense

ill give you an example.

we have 2 persons.

one has has scorpio rising and pluto in the 1st house but his
pluto does not conjoing the 1st house axis or the ascendant it only does some trines squares and oppositions

the 2nd person has scorpio rising but the pluto conjoins his ascendant
or planets
for example: he has his pluto in 10° scorpio and rising in 18° scorpio
(his pluto conjoins the ascendant) thats hella intense......

that 2nd person will be more intense because of the conjuction

The aspect conjunction is formed when two planets are at approximately the same degree of the same sign or at an orb of not more than 8 degrees.

In a conjunction, the energies of the two planets are combined, and the result is often a strengthening of both. .

pluto conjoining the axis whether if its 1st 4th 7th 10th will be more
intense than just having the planet inside the house

why you hear so many persons say
" i have scorpio rising with pluto in scorpio but i dont feel i exude magnetism sexuality mystery passion etc on the outside"



its because their pluto does not have those intense aspects which is the conjuction


conjuction is the most important aspect for expressing-exude the raw intense energy of the planet

Last edited by MadArchitect; 11-01-2016 at 07:58 PM.
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Unread 11-01-2016, 07:59 PM
tisha83 tisha83 is offline
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Re: Pluto in an Angular House

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArchitect View Post
pluto on the descendant does not exude the energy of pluto so raw and intense like when it is in 1st or maybe the 10th which is the MC
unless if your pluto of descendant conjoins the 7th house axis or does conjuction with other planets

conjuctions tend to express the energy of the planet way more intense

In a conjunction, the energies of the two planets are combined, and the result is often a strengthening of both. .

pluto conjoining the axis whether if its 1st 4th 7th 10th will be more
intense than just having the planet inside the house

why you hear so many persons say
" i have scorpio rising with pluto in scorpio but i dont feel i exude magnetism sexuality mystery passion etc on the outside"

its because their pluto does not have those intense aspects which is the conjuction

conjuction is the most important aspect for expressing-exude the raw intense energy of the planet
I understand what you mean and I agree with your opinion about Pluto´s intensity in angular position in 1st or 10th house, I just want to say that my Pluto in Scorpio on Descendant is pretty intense in relationship and I attracted people to me trought it. Pluto is like catalyzator of my personality trought relatioships, sometimes it really hurts, but the potential of transformation is very strong. Also it´s dominant planet in my natal chart. In my case I have also Venus in Scorpio in 7th house, which is 7th house ruler, so the theme of Pluto and Scorpio in my relationship is pretty highlighted. My Moon is in Libra in conjunction with Descendant and Pluto. And Mars in Libra conjunct Moon from 6th house. I really feel Pluto´s energy and magnetism, but in my case Venus in Scorpio is the planet which attracted men to me sexually.

I don´t know how you deal with your Pluto but what you wrote others are drawn to you and feel your magnetism. So be carefull about its powerful and manipulation tendencies, Pluto is nothing for play with, must be controled and deal with it carefully.

Last edited by tisha83; 11-01-2016 at 08:07 PM.
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