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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #51  
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY


"It's a good thing" for any planet that is of the sect in favor


If a planet is not of the sect in favor
then
it is the wrong time of day for the planet.


SATURN SOLE DOMICILE RULER OF AQUARIUS

is not of the sect in favor in NIGHT charts



.

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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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SATURN IS SOLE DOMICILE RULER OF AQUARIUS


The IMAGE OF THE WATER-POURER is aka AQUARIUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

The image of the Water-Pourer
is masculine, diurnal, solid, watery, human, servile, eloquent, semi-infertile, handsome, standing and of the east wind. It indicates inquiries, affairs, crafts, water and property. Depending on the placement of the houseruler, men born under the influence of Aquarius are burdened, envious, lying, occasionally generous because of the uncontrollable flow of the Water-Pourer, craftsmen, public, mystical, youthful, delicate, with beautiful figure and eyes, smooth hair, dizzy, beautiful manners, white, working with hard materials, troubled by athletic training, artisans, wealthy, malicious, haters of their own families, incorrigible, making living by waterside places, betrayers of reputation and truth, accusers, haters of mankind, godless and uncontrollable.

Domicile of Saturn, it controls the lower legs, the skeletal system, the lymphatic system and the immune system. It causes blindness on account of the water. It is like-empowered with Libra, like-ascending with Pisces and like-engirding with Capricorn, short in the Northern Hemisphere and tall in the Southern Hemisphere. It is wintry, cold and moist for the north, and summery, hot and dry for the south. Aquarius obeys Aries for the north and commands it for the south. Aquarius controls Sauromatica, Oxiana, Sogdiana, Arabia, Azania and Middle Ethiopia. The left hand and the head are rising up to the 7th degree, the body and the right hand up to the 13th, the pitcher up to the 20th, the water up to the 25th, and the falling water up to the 30th.

The first 7° belong to Mercury - mastery, lovers of wisdom
The next 6° belong to Venus - friendships with great women
The next 7° belong to Jupiter - notable, some are winners of games
The next 5° belong to Mars - lawsuits, injuries, some die violent deaths
The final 5° belong to Saturn - education, grief in youth

Shoulders, Left Arm and Cloak - Saturn and Mercury
Thighs - Mercury and moderately Saturn
Water - Saturn and moderately Jupiter


Such, then, are the observations of the effects of the stars
as made by our predecessors.


Bibliography:
Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae: accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri. Retrieved from
https://archive.org/details/maximiet...00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
.
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Unread 05-09-2021, 07:38 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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ON THE DIVISION OF TIMES
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121677

SATURN favorably placed by day
causes profit from vigorous efforts and hard work, ancient trades,
mysteries, legacy, relatives, elders, property and land
and the times become good for everything.

When unfavorably placed by night
it makes difficulties in everything
inactivity, bodily illness and dangers, losses, poverty, penalties, h
arm, judgements and deaths of relatives
dismantling of ancient things, quarrels with elders
deceptions and extortions of friends
troubles from lands and foundations
and from the places that SATURN governs at the nativity

SATURN onto Jupiter favorably placed by day

are productive of prosperity, notable friendships and acquisitions.
When unfavorably placed by night
they fine and damage what is being completed
harm relatives, they bring toil and the reduction of wealth.

SATURN onto Mars favorably placed make troubles and setbacks.

When unfavorably placed
they make those who are discouraged and not eager
they gather up enemies and trouble
and sickness with Mercury.

SATURN onto Sun favorably placed by day

cause high rank and wealth.
When unfavorably placed by night
they portend dangers from authorities and travel
unemployment, penalties, dimming of vision
and harm to the father.

SATURN onto Venus favorably placed

indicate success in business and marriage for the unmarried.
When unfavorably placed
they cause disturbances of friendship and love
and changes of affairs.

SATURN onto Mercury favorably placed by day

indicate great advancement and increase of wealth.
When unfavorably placed by night
they bring about the chilling of business
contentions, debts, sickness
deceptions in business and harm from speech.

SATURN onto Moon unfavorably placed cause uproars

bodily illness, the reduction of possessions
and harm to the mother.
When favorably placed
the time is profitable and productive of alliance.

Jupiter onto SATURN favorably placed by day

cause advancement, association with the great
the alleviation of distress
nativities spend freely and manage the work of others.
When unfavorably placed by night
they cause turbulent times
oppression by superiors
and grief from relatives.


Published under Open Access 2020
MARTIN GANSTEN

'A Note on the Indian Planetary Exaltations and their Greek-Language Sources'.
https://journals.library.ualberta.ca...rticle/view/66





.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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next planet equally important in overall rulership of a nativity
besides Oikodespotes
aka domicile master of the chart


is
KURIOS aka Lord of the nativity.

Kurios is the executor of the agenda
that Oikodespotes aka domicile master holds.

Determination of whether

SATURN SOLE DOMICILA RULER OF AQUARIUS may be Kurios
is determined from the following candidates

1. Ascendant sign.

Establish whether any planet(s) are in the Ascendant sign
AND bounds of the ascending degree.

2. Domicile Lord of Ascendant.

3. Moon and its Domicile Lord

4. Tenth sign from ascendant and its Domicile Lord

5. Lot of Fortune and its Domicile Lord.

6. Any planets that make phasis in the chart.

include planets that make a first or second station seven days

before
or
after

nativity.

7. The bound lord of the pre-natal lunation.


Kurios aka The Lord of the nativity
is determined using the above hierarchy
AND
is also fit to conduct its business



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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoldOrFold View Post

I like to bring this picture out now and again
because

it perfectly illustrates
the symmetry in the traditional planetary rulerships.

Notice in the picture, the planets are in descending order
and the signs follow one after the other.

The co-rulerships are symmetrical.








Quote:
Originally Posted by HoldOrFold View Post

^ If you take some time to really think about that, it's pretty amazing.

- In general, I have found in personal cases that

people tend to embody their traditional ruling planet
As for Saturn ruling Aquarius, consider these points:

- Aquarius is cold and aloof
- Aquarius is about the community

(community is structured, bound by traditions and regulations)
- Aquarius is opposite Leo, the ego, ruled by the Sun.

Saturn is furthest away from the Sun.
Opposite to ego
(communal again)
- Just like Capricorn expands materially
using Saturn's laws of boundaries and structures
Aquarius does so to but more so with ideas and concepts.
These signs are not stagnating in Saturn
they understand and make use of it
and there is growth happening in their sphere of influence.

- Saturn is exalted in Libra.
Thinking about that for awhile
helps you
to break loose from
the typical doom and gloom associated
with Saturn
and
understand it's rulership over Aquarius.

.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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PLANETS DIGNIFIED IN AQUARIUS




SATURN SOLE DOMICILE RULER OF AQUARIUS
is dignified
not only
by sign
but also
is dignified in diurnal charts
ss daytime triplicity ruler Aquarius

MERCURY is dignified in nocturnal charts as night-time triplicity ruler.


Planets Debilitated in Aquarius = Sun by DETRIMENT



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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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SATURN SOLE DOMICILE RULER AQUARIUS IS A MALEFIC






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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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Jupiter and SATURN were called by astrologers of old
the "Great Chronocrators".
For millennia
the alignment of these two planets
has been regarded
as a significator of great social
economic
and
political watersheds - historic turning points, if you will.
hence
referred to as
"The Great Conjunction"
clearly then
Juiter Saturn conjunctions have been charted for millenia
by MUNDANE ASTROLOGERS


Jupiter's alignment with SATURN
occurs at intervals of just under 20 years
The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde
of one or both planets.
Each successive conjunction
not counting retrograde repeats
occurs at a mean advance of
approximately 243 degrees relative to its predecessor
although from one alignment to the next
this arc can vary considerably.

Every third conjunction
i.e.
once every 60 years
brings the alignment back
to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed
FIRST ORDER RECURRENCE of the conjunction.

Every 40th conjunction - roughly once every 800 years -
brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:
this approximate 800 year cycle is termed SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE



Jupiter and SATURN may both be regarded as generational planets
Jupiter takes 12 years to orbit Sun
and
Saturn takes 30 years to orbit Sun
- additionally, during their respective orbits of the Sun
Jupiter and Saturn are in conjunction only approximately every 20 years.

These specific spans of time

chime well with the accepted idea of “a generation”
being the span of time necessary before human beings are physically able
to produce a child of their own
in human terms, 'a generation' can be a variable
- that's because some produce offspring very early
and in many 'eastern' countries before their teens.

However, in 'the west' there is a tendency to initially focus on 'career'
before then producing offspring later in the 30's.
The middle ground would be those producing offspring in their 20's.
Based on those rather "rough and ready" spans of time then:

(1) A twelve year Jupiter orbit of the sun represents

those who are parents at an age considered in 'the west'
very young - i.e. 12

(2) A thirty year Saturn orbit of the sun represents

those who are parents at what is considered in 'the west'
to be a 'more responsible age' - i.e. 30

(3) A combination of the two planets in regular 20 year Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions

then represent the 'middle-ground' - i.e. 19/20

USUALLY a generation
averages about 25 years from the birth of a parent to the birth of a child
- although it varies case by case
it is generally accepted that the length of a generation
was closer to 20 years in earlier times
when humans mated younger
and life expectancies were shorter



.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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Traditionally


Quote:
Originally Posted by rahu View Post

Saturn rules Aquarius because in ancient times

Saturn was the boundary between the real world
and the world of spirits.
Saturn was the only planet with rings
and these rings gave Saturn a portal to the higher realms.
For this reason Saturn ruled all forms of magic
and ruled the transition from mortal to immortal life.

The ring system was described as "the ring pass, not pass "
dividing line between the spirit world and the real world.
As such the attributes we give Aquarius
were in the domain of Saturn.

Saturn is the adept, those who know how to manipulate the
highest planes of existence.
rahu
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahu View Post

As I said, Saturn was historically
the boundary between the mundane world
and the world of spirits.




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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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Of the seven metals, Saturn rules lead
which has a very dull surface
and makes a thick, heavy sound when struck.
Lead is also the heaviest, the most stable
and the most inert metal
the traditional metal of tombs.

Lead poisoning was originally referred to as 'Saturnism'
because the physical ailments of ingesting small quantities of lead include
fatigue, depression and melancholia.
Lead collects in bone tissue
and is more prevalent in the bones of old people than those of the young.

Nick Kollerstrom in his book ASTROCHEMISTRY
explores the link between Saturn, lead and Saturnism
reminding us that the effects of lead poisoning
are to 'slow down' the mental processes of the mind.
Saturn also rules all ordinary country stones that have no glitter and shine.
It is said to rule the dross of all metals and the dust, ash and rubbish of everything.
It does however, have some rulership over diamonds
the hardest mineral, derived from crystallised carbon.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/astrology_saturn.html




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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

.




by the way

the Moon WHEN VISIBLE
is visible solely because

Moon REFLECTS the LIGHT of the SUN

and


SATURN sole DOMICILE ruler of Aquarius

is visible also
by REFLECTING the LIGHT of the SUN




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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

.




Quote:
One question for clarification:

You said “Operative is angular or succedent (post-ascending)”
. Do you mean Operative is succedent?

Since Ascending here already means angular?


Operative (chrematistikos) in the Hellenistic tradition referred to both the angular and succedent places. In the sample, this would basically mean I gave two points for an angular Light, 1 for succedent and 0 for cadent. This is generally how it is treated traditionally, although there is some slight ambiguity to how operative are the succedents compared to the angles, whether it is a 50% strength, something like 66% or the like. Generally though, they are treated as operative along with the angles, while the cadents are noted as completely useless. So it may have been just a two-grade consideration, and it actually sometimes feels that way.

Note that the operative places according to some authors are different. These authors think that the 2nd and 8th place are worse than the 9th because of no aspect, but I disagree.

Quote:
Lastly, you said the Master of the Nativity holds great powers in the Egyptian tradition. Could you recommend some sources so I can look into this? Thank you.
Quote:
Petosiris seems to have defined the place perfectly, even though he spoke in mystic riddles: “The beginning, the end, the controller, and the measurement standard of the whole is the houseruling star of each nativity: it makes clear what kind of person the native will be, what kind of basis his livelihood will have, what his character will be, what sort of body <=health and appearance> he will have, and all the things that will accompany him in life. Without this star nothing, neither occupation nor rank, will come to anyone.”
Valens later disagrees, saying ''But, how is it possible for a nativity to succeed in everything or, on the other hand, to fail in everything, depending just on the houserulership of just one star?'' - Valens, V. Anthologia.

Translated by Mark Riley.
- https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf - page 54

Valens quotes Nechepso and Petosiris frequently, in two places they referred to the Lot of Fortune as place (the Lots were associated with whole signs/houses) from which ''the whole can be seen'' - ruling place, powerful and controlling.



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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Hippies had to do a lot of drugs to think Saturn's age would be great.

Here's a random question: Saturn trine ascendant in a day chart. Yay or nay? Dun dun dunn.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post

Hippies had to do a lot of drugs to think Saturn's age would be great.
Here's a random question:

Saturn trine ascendant in a day chart.
Yay or nay? Dun dun dunn.

Above or below the horizon?




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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Above or below the horizon?




.
Below, 5th house.

Pisces Saturn always confuses me.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post


Below, 5th house.

Pisces Saturn always confuses me
.
WHOLE SIGN or any Quadrant system?



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  #68  
Unread 06-15-2021, 08:38 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Trining Cancer would be bad. Scorpio would be okay.



One might argue that Saturn in Pisces is generally tolerable, because Venus rules Saturn's exaltation. Might.



But it's not the worst place.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
Below, 5th house.

Pisces Saturn always confuses me.
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  #69  
Unread 06-15-2021, 08:42 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
WHOLE SIGN or any Quadrant system?



.
Whole Signs, Mon Ami.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
Trining Cancer would be bad. Scorpio would be okay.



One might argue that Saturn in Pisces is generally tolerable, because Venus rules Saturn's exaltation. Might.



But it's not the worst place.
You guessed it - Trine Scorpio ascendant, though ascendant is conjunct domicile Mars. A strange tag-team to go along with a Libra Sun/Merc/Venus sitting in the 12th.
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Unread 06-15-2021, 08:45 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

Trining Cancer would be bad. Scorpio would be okay.
.
Trine Cancer gotta trine Scorpio

and vice versa






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Unread 06-15-2021, 08:47 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

One might argue that Saturn in Pisces is generally tolerable
because Venus rules Saturn's exaltation.

Might.
anything is possible
albeit however unlikely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

But it's not the worst place.
it's all relative to the totality of the chart




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Unread 06-15-2021, 10:10 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post


Whole Signs, Mon Ami.
You guessed it - Trine Scorpio ascendant, though
ascendant is conjunct domicile Mars.

A strange tag-team to go along

with a Libra Sun/Merc/Venus sitting in the 12th.

Ruler of 10th in 12th
is Mercury rising before or after the sun?



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  #73  
Unread 06-18-2021, 02:33 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*


dr.farr provides additional traditional detail
Quote:



-in Western traditional, Saturn is associated with the element earth
(thus Saturn as dispositor of earthy Capricorn)

-in the Vedic tradition, however,
Saturn is associated with the element air
(thus Saturn as dispositor of airy Aquarius)

Could Saturn be a double-element planet (earth + air)?

There is some tradition about Mercury being a double
(earth + water; air + earth)...

-then there is the theory
of the original attribution of sign "rulerships"
based on planet's relationship to the Sun:
ie,
: for the outward spread of planets going from the Sun:
Sun = Leo,
next planet Mercury = next sign Virgo,
then Venus = next sign Libra,
then Mars = Scorpio,
then Jupiter = Sagittarius,
then (final on the outward spread) Saturn = Capricon

+Then starting from the outer limit coming back toward the Sun:
: outermost (traditional planet) Saturn = Aquarius,
then next planet
(coming back inward-sunward-from Saturn) is Jupiter = Pisces,
then next planet coming sunward is Mars = Aries,
then next planet coming sunward is Venus = Taurus,
next planet coming sunward is Mercury = Gemini,
and finally a jot toward the earth, with Moon = Cancer

(Sun to Moon via the circuit of the solar system,
Leo outward through signs,
then back inward through signs, Leo to Cancer)
Could be why
(or another reason why)
Saturn allocated to Capricorn and to Aquarius,
in the olden times...
.
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  #74  
Unread 06-29-2021, 09:14 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*





.........
Quote:


saturn is the furthest traditional planet from the sun.

.....the sun rules leo.

saturn rules aquarius because it's furthest from the sun,
and
the coldest planet.
aquarius is rigid, cold, dogmatic, impersonal
- that seems to fit saturnian energy pretty well.

saturn diametrically opposes the sun,
which also makes sense here.
that's the actual why in trad astrology.





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Unread 06-29-2021, 10:27 PM
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:


Lead, and zinc are effective moss control elements.
They protect what is below them

by leaving a covering on top
and killing any organism

that tries to grow underneath it
by leaching when it rains.
Traditionally
SATURN, SOLE DOMICILE RULER OF AQUARIUS rules LEAD

LEAD IS A HIGHLY TOXIC METAL


AND
A VERY STRONG POISON


Lead poisoning is a serious and sometimes fatal condition.
It occurs when lead builds up in the body.
Lead is found in lead-based paints
including paint on the walls of old houses and toys.



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