cazimi - "in the heart of the sun"

please humour me here -

all my life i have been involved with semantics, memetics, ideas, meaning.. i can usually fit ideas well together to generate a narrative.. to an extent where others recognise me for such abilities... aamof i have coded poetry generators and similar things which only entertain on their value to be lent to open interpretation...
http://www.xoxos.net/software/lyrics2.zip

but for some reason, the idea of "cazimi" isn't gelling for me..

..to say the planet is dignitary.. or, like the astralvisions wordpress page that comes up first on google puts it..

Cazimi, then, leads to the most enchanted state wherein the essential meaning of the planet becomes truly inseparable from our spirit.

Click to expand...

the more i think about this apparently simple concept, the more i feel like i do not understand it whatsoever. i'm a venus cazimi .. and when i think about venus... like, love, attraction, pleasure, money.. well i think most of my intimate friends and family recognise that i have a gentle nature befitting someone of culture and erudition, and, this cazimi is in aquarius, have generally intended to make my life of service to others, but.. i'm basically someone who doesn't concern themselves with pleasure, sex, hedonism, money. as a male, sure, i'm gentle, compassionate, and not particularly masculine, have an innate consideration of harmony, prefer long hair et c.

i start to wander and think, have i got venus wrong? is venus the lucifer planet? or, as feminine energy, is venus all yin and westerners have got it all wrong?

it's not the example, but the conceptualisation.

for instance, the simple interpretation, a mars cazimi i would think... very forceful and immediate, unsubtle.. like a general, given to snap decisions.. for whom self doubt simply doesn't manifest...

..but then what is a saturn cazimi? someone who broods and chides and seeks to restrain others? is a pluto cazimi someone who mysteriously is in the right place and time to bestow past lifetime karma on people?


i appear to be dithering, lost in semantics, certainly some stress is bearing on my state of reflection here, because i try to solidify the idea, and it turns to sand in my fingers.

so what is, to you, this personality glorified by planetary nature? can you give an example? because i am certain that a venus cazimi is not a nympho/satyromaniac! amitabha! i am hardly given to feeling pleasure, and while i express consideration for others, i think you can appreciate that my expression is exact, virgo, and i'm not the most sensuous person to communicate with!!!!!

You have to take the essence of the signs into account, when looking at cazimi.

Your sun is in Aquarius, in it's detriment. Thus it is somewhat weakened. So Venus would be weakened as well, as Aquarius is not that complementary with Venusian energy either.

If you were a Libra with cazimi Venus then it would be a more powerful reign of Venus. I don't think we can judge the definition of 'cazimi' by looking at this one weakened example.

I had to laugh at your example of Pluto cazimi:
"is a pluto cazimi someone who mysteriously is in the right place and time to bestow past lifetime karma on people?"


My younger brother has Pluto in Leo exactly conjunct his Sun in the 10th. It is about 11minutes away.

He is a paranoid schizophrenic, who is alright if he stays on his meds. But when he goes offtrack, he does indeed become what you describe. He goes after celebrities that he has decided are working for the devil. They speak to him personally over the airwaves and admit their evil ways. He once got arrested for trying to get to Johnny Carson while he was doing the Tonight Show. My brother tried to rush the stage.

I had a client who had Saturn within 17 minutes of her Sun in Libra. The Saturn is exalted and she was a very strong person. But she had such a deep depression left over from a very dysfunctional traumatic childhood. Her mother killed herself and died in her bedroom. So my poor client came home from school and found her dead mom. Her little brother was with her too. So she spent the first 20 years of her life grieving and trying to prevent her little brother from killing himself. He finally did so when she was 21 and he was 19. She had to commit herself into care so she could avoid following in his foot steps.

A few years later she contacted me .We met for lunch. She looked so much healthier and more stable. She had a nursing degree and was engaged and was like a new person. The exaltation of Saturn in Libra had the strength she needed to be resilient and stable.

i suppose i sort of see myself as a magyckalle fairy flitting about and dispensing cultural egalitarianism to all the people of the world with my software making, to me it all seemed kind of ideologically integrated, so i never considered "warm" venus may be conflicting with "cold" airy intellectual aquarius.. i'm graceful and pleasant, but in a "it's alright if you stay over there.." kind of way "i'm beautiful, that's venus, right" ..until i realised, it's not, really. it's not really *pleasure* or desire. maybe venus in cool blue light, a semblance of beauty and attractiveness to facilitate the higher intellectual function. platonic beauty?

you know, your brother's right about celebrities!

From a modern astrology perspective, the sun shows your identity or sense of self. A planet conjunct the sun shows what you identify with.

Aquarius is the fixed air sign, modernly ruled by Uranus, traditionally ruled by Saturn. The air element's modality is mental, even intellectual. So see what fits: identifying (sun) with loving (Venus) thoughts or ideals (air), for example?

cool the part where i get fuzzy is the "loving" part.. i mean.. dignitary.. does it mean.. "i really really love ideals" or "my love of ideals is of dignified refinement" or "people love how i love ideals" or.. *keeps spinning*

katydid said:

My brother tried to rush the stage.

Click to expand...

oh and what i said, i'm not freaking kidding! visit my thread in chat > spirituality "evidence (stochastic method)"

unless one is insistently in denial or unreceptivity, the overt example clearly shows, there are demons in them there signals! frankly your brother is fortunate that it is his fate to be drugged into indifference rather than left abrasively sensitised, where he would continue to enter into conflict with these forces and be covertly depleted, to others, appearing to deteriorate of his own imperceptible dysfunction. there are so few people in the world today who are sensitive and strong enough to not "go along" that it is quite miserable to have clarity in the evil west! everybody loves tv, and everybody knows it's slightly wrong, but who cares, it's so much fun "and so educational, i feel so well informed" (no new news here!)

having a casual "as i go along" demeanour towards assimilating new astrological knowledge, i keep sort of bumping into things that seem to be critically significant.. eg. not only as venus cazimi, my ascendant and moon are 4 minutes off, and a nighttime birth places my "point of fortune" right on top of my cazimi.

so it's "me me me" all the way home for me.. (and this is in my 6th house i understand to be "daily work" so seemingly all of the fantasticness that i am is only appreciable for.. me! the good news for.. me! is, that's every day! )

insight?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92283

Do you want to post your chart? It's a little hard to interpret data bytes extracted from their context. One of which would be your sun-Venus house, and how these planets are aspected.

I also have the sun and Venus in Aquarius, although they are not conjunct, let alone cazimi. Generally we Aquarians need a lot of space. We are capable of loving (Venus) deeply, but we don't like to be smothered.

it's in the thread linked in my previous post, though omitted from the first post. scroll down a bit and it's there

i've been faced with many significant challenges for an extended time now, though a recent event was of a "further tier". at present, investigating astrology seems as prudent as anything in my free time as to how to proceed. as my wording indicates, i'm somewhat gravitated to an indirect approach to most matters at the present time, and gleaning what i can as i encounter it. i'm also accustomed to subterfuge which complicates communications

certainly i extend gratitude towards any attempt at insight, or even amusement, or things vaguely in that vein

i have only begun to digest "houses," and am occasionally encountering other finer points (eg. i have not begun on stars and the chart of course does not include them). one appreciates that at any moment, it is only part of a picture that one perceives. (i'm not quite sure what i'm saying here, so i'd better stop saying it.. i thank you for the query. growing up in the seventies, yes, i have always felt as if my nature were decidedly aquarian, as a polyculturalist and freeware advocate, et c et c )

Sounds like a traditional issue, to nora

nora,

Talking about planets being "in the heart of the sun" is getting into Traditional topics. You may find more information by posting on the Traditional Forum.

Suggesting,

Tim

i'm not sure anyone here is more experienced than you, and you are telling me to start a second thread on a current topic (clutter). when those in authority concern themselves with minutiae of bureaucracy instead of the topic, things insensate to any contemporary communications user, it is intimated that one isn't particularly wanted.

may i ask "how that is for you"? is it eg. that you are particularly fascinated with dreams and intuition and the subconscious, or that you have some "mastery" of intuition and psychic awareness and can navigate clearly between insight and delusion, or are others attracted strangely to you when they seek greater insight? without "giving yourself away" of course.

i know this is a bit reductio ad absurdum, but in my distended thought process, it's like... the chip shop man... "half chip shop, half man.. ability to batter things at 20' range no saving throw" it's silly. but one considers surely he must have a life beyond the chip shop.. so i wonder, what it really means ot be chip shop man.. and get more and more confused as i pose more questions. silly example but you see where i become uncertain about what the connection between essence, ideals, behaviour, affinity is..

i'm guessing you meant to bring my attention to..

A cazimi Venus, for example, could easily be a nymphomaniac or ‘sex addict’, for example. It could also be a person with near supernatural charm, grace or insight into the world of feelings. Under the sunbeams a planet is warmed and vitalised and somewhat or completely invisible, meaning it is commanding and infused with our inner light but somehow ‘on the fringes’, lacking in conventional status. It becomes ethereal, alluring, unusual and dreamy. Combust planets are unorthodox and often willfully defy external direction because they are confident in their own inner unique grasp of the planets essential meaning. They are either aloof from or disinterested in the material agenda of the planet concerned but will still display its power radiantly and forcefully but somewhat enigmatically and individually.

i like the "combust" bit as it sort of integrates the characteristic via the reflexive property, A = A so that there is no non-A to create objective contrast with.... i find that very tangible and sensible to my sense of meaning. but it differentiates that as combust not cazimi

as an admittedly OT but perhaps interesting/appreciable personal note,

being introduced to w.s. burroughs "cut-up method" and computers/"procedural method" early in life, i've done extensive work with randomisation and juxtaposition in semantics, memetics is sort of my masters or whatev.

burroughs - "when you cut into the present, the future leaks through" - he documented that various cut-ups "seemed to be referring to future events" which i suppose most of the semantic divinatory methods implement. being able to develop my own methods for semantic juxtaposition has been "liberating" as i no longer spend time receiving mass media or dealign with it at all, invented my way out of heirarchy.

one enjoyable but unreferenced method.. many years ago a friend and i dropped a hit of acid together and mixed two different coloured balls of clay together. roll the ball, bisect it. the cut plane revealed an image. we both saw the same image, and as we repeated the process, creating more complex scenes as the colours intermixed, we continued to see the same, amusing scenes, and of course, both came out of this unique, areferential, nonderivative experience with a sense that our creation had transduced spirit in some way. (btw what we both saw was a series of dog headed monarchs seated on thrones, it was hilarious how each random arrangement of clay continued to depict these absurd personages).

this is a concept i love to assert, areferentialism tactical implementations of reference instead of centralised, subordinate and authoritarian.

@nora, I agree with Tim that cazimi is more of a traditional astro concept so those who visit that section could offer more information...Anyway, like others mentioned, you can't take an aspect out of the chart. Sun conjunct Venus will express itself very differently depending on sign, house, other aspects, etc. I know you're new to astrology but picking parts out is more helpful if you also try to understand how it fits with the rest of the chart to create a whole person.

FWIW, I think you have a beautiful scientific take on astrology. Bam, that's Venus Cazimini in Aquarius.

I think you really have to explore Aquarius to understand your position. Contemplate Sun conjunct Venus in Aquarius.

I have Uranus Cazmini in Libra and I understand it. They are fused. It explains so much about me... but it's only one facet.

Could someone give me an insight on my venus?

Venus is 12°30'1 virgo Declination: 8°10'39" N
Sun in 9°11'1 Virgo Declination: 8° 7'34" N

both are conjunct and parallel in the 2ND HOUSE HOUSE OF TAURUS AND VENUS.

OT but then bringing back to.. i think burroughs uses that as a literary device. imo the last three ("western lands" trilogy) bring his strengths to bear in undiluted form, but of course the distasteful "dressing" of the text is uncomfortable.

for several years (long gone now, only a moment in reflection) i only read this trilogy, putting the books down, then picking them up here and there, and i found after a while conjunct between my day and what i would pick up.

i don't like to blow my own whistle (which is why i don't try to hawk software here, and charge little for it, money and personal interests defy my "cazimi" aquarian egalitarianism ) but yes.. it was difficult to find constructive applications of diagramming... i've now implemented this procedurally and realtime.

for consideration, it's.. difficult.. so .. foregoable.. spiritualism forum > "evidence" thread ....... where you will find an *overt* example of procedural method being *inhabited* by consciousness. "i guess it's possible" that this is creative, but based on the expressions i consider it more likely that this animation is providing a "suitable vessel" that something is slipping into.

after such things, to me, eg. the islamic principle of not depicting living beings in art, only abstraction, seems very tangible.. i guess both can be animated, lattice, express energy.. maybe it's silly..


for anyone else, if you do want to follow the link to my chart thread (let me dig that up again for pertinence) please do so! the more i read other peoples' chart interpretations, the more insight i have into my own..

...i think it would be interesting to read expert astrologers regarding insight into their own natal charts, as they would have so much to convey.. of course, people may not wish to expose so much of themselves.. but it's true.. i find myself adding pieces to my consideration each day.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92283

No explanation. Adding for consideration. Positions are in the speculum added to the chart.

Venus in this chart is not just conjunct the Sun. I will not refer to the Sun again but the same aspects are true for it.

Positions are given in right ascension - their true positions relative to each other in space, latitude and declination not being considered. Measurements from zero degrees Aries in the Tropical zodiac.

Uranus at 188°18' is strongly trine Venus at 307°51' (188°18' + 120° = 308°18'), out by only 000°27' of arc.

The midpoint of the 2 at 248°05' (188°18' + 307°51' = 496°09' /2 = 248°05') is tightly squared by the Moon (158°35'). Moon at 158°35' + 90° = 248°35'. 000°30' from exact.

So you have Venus intermingled with the Sun, Moon and Uranus as a complete package.

"careful how you pronounce that" i guess

noraleader said:

please humour me here -

all my life i have been involved with semantics, memetics, ideas, meaning.. i can usually fit ideas well together to generate a narrative.. to an extent where others recognise me for such abilities... aamof i have coded poetry generators and similar things which only entertain on their value to be lent to open interpretation...
http://www.xoxos.net/software/lyrics2.zip

but for some reason, the idea of "cazimi" isn't gelling for me..

..to say the planet is dignitary.. or, like the astralvisions wordpress page that comes up first on google puts it..




the more i think about this apparently simple concept, the more i feel like i do not understand it whatsoever. i'm a venus cazimi .. and when i think about venus... like, love, attraction, pleasure, money.. well i think most of my intimate friends and family recognise that i have a gentle nature befitting someone of culture and erudition, and, this cazimi is in aquarius, have generally intended to make my life of service to others, but.. i'm basically someone who doesn't concern themselves with pleasure, sex, hedonism, money. as a male, sure, i'm gentle, compassionate, and not particularly masculine, have an innate consideration of harmony, prefer long hair et c.

i start to wander and think, have i got venus wrong? is venus the lucifer planet? or, as feminine energy, is venus all yin and westerners have got it all wrong?

it's not the example, but the conceptualisation.

for instance, the simple interpretation, a mars cazimi i would think... very forceful and immediate, unsubtle.. like a general, given to snap decisions.. for whom self doubt simply doesn't manifest...

..but then what is a saturn cazimi? someone who broods and chides and seeks to restrain others? is a pluto cazimi someone who mysteriously is in the right place and time to bestow past lifetime karma on people?


i appear to be dithering, lost in semantics, certainly some stress is bearing on my state of reflection here, because i try to solidify the idea, and it turns to sand in my fingers.

so what is, to you, this personality glorified by planetary nature? can you give an example? because i am certain that a venus cazimi is not a nympho/satyromaniac! amitabha! i am hardly given to feeling pleasure, and while i express consideration for others, i think you can appreciate that my expression is exact, virgo, and i'm not the most sensuous person to communicate with!!!!!

Click to expand...

You have that cazimi Venus in Aquarius, and Sun in Aquarius is in detriment, so the energy of it is weakened and Venus is also weakened there too due to Aquarius being detached to emotions and emotional hiding from others to protect themselves from being alienated, so this cazimi isn't as powerful as a normal cazimi aspect.