Um, I'm a bit confused about the whole Tropical vs Sidereel thing.

taubra

taubra

Well-known member
I came across a theory, where someone said that just because you relate to your sidereel chart - that doesn't necessarily mean that it's correct. What they meant by that, is that there may be placements within your Tropical/Western chart, that allow you to relate. For example, if your sidereel Sun sign is Aries, you may be able to relate to that due to the fact that you have Aries Mars, and planets in 1st house in your Western chart, you see?

But I'm finding the whole thing rather confusing.
Would an Aries Sun in sidereel astrology, be the same as an Aries Sun in tropical astrology ~ or would the personality traits (?) be different.

I can relate to both my sidereel and my tropical charts.
But the more I see my sidereel ~ the more it answers the things that my tropical chart doesn't necessarily explain. So, is there a reason as to why one might relate more to one style than the other? Are we maybe a combination of the two together? You Sun, Moon, Venus etc, being split between the two signs that govern those planets within each chart?

Or what what?
I'm so confussssssssed!
Just anything, really.
Your views, your knowledge.
Share, speak!
Enhance my understanding of this kerfuffle.

:sad:
 
Moog

Moog

Well-known member
My view is that the sidereal charts are more accurate. Though there is often some overlap between the two charts.

Parts of my tropical chart 'spoke to me' when I was beginning to explore astrology. If it hadn't, I may have abandoned the whole thing.

Then I looked into the sidereal chart, initially skeptical, for reasons that escape me now. Perhaps I had already become attached to the idea of myself derived from the tropical chart.

I'm a 'dyed in the wool' siderealist now, so my opinion is probably obvious.
 
taubra

taubra

Well-known member
Thanks for the input, Moog ^_^
I too actually find it really accurate.
But I wonder whether or not it's because the aspects in my Tropical chart give the combined personality traits of the signs present in my sidereel chart.
I'm starting to think that maybe sidereel is a somewhat simplification.
I wish I could expand on that, but my brain won't allow me to concentrate so much right now ^_^

Anyway, I do wonder why some will relate, and others won't.
Seems so weird.
 
Moog

Moog

Well-known member
taubra said:
Thanks for the input, Moog ^_^
I too actually find it really accurate.
But I wonder whether or not it's because the aspects in my Tropical chart give the combined personality traits of the signs present in my sidereel chart.
Click to expand...

The way to sort that stuff out is to examine and compare charts/people where the planets are 'purer' in expression; e.g. look at people with Mars in Cancer unaspected and alone as opposed to Mars in Cancer modified by an aspect or conjunction with Saturn etc.

Getting to know all the nuances and combinations is a work that can probably go on for a looooong long time.
 
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Lazy Cat

Lazy Cat

Well-known member
I'm quite confused as well. I also relate to both charts.

Another thing that confuses me - are the signs interpretations different, in Sidereal? I've got that impression that yes, they are different, and that just brings a whole new layer to things.

I might just put up my Sidereal chart for a reading, and see how that goes...

Oh, and another thing that confuses me - if I come to the conclusion that my Sidereal chart is more accurate.... should I start looking at everybody's charts in Sidereal? I mean, it seems like it's more of a personal thing, like, I relate more to my Sidereal chart, but someone else relates more to their Tropical... so what do I do? =/
 
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taubra

taubra

Well-known member
Ahh, come sit in this boat with me, and keep me company during this confusing time.
^-^

Astrology can be such an inconvenience to learn.
My brain may very well explode.

I was wondering the same things, actually.
I posted a question on the "other astrology" board, regarding the signs maybe meaning different things. You may want to find it and check it out to see if anyone replies, or something.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Lazy Cat said:
I'm quite confused as well. I also relate to both charts. Another thing that confuses me - are the signs interpretations different, in Sidereal? I've got that impression that yes, they are different, and that just brings a whole new layer to things.
Click to expand...

Here's a link to a great resource on Sidereal signs http://www.solunars.org/

Lazy Cat said:
I might just put up my Sidereal chart for a reading, and see how that goes... Oh, and another thing that confuses me - if I come to the conclusion that my Sidereal chart is more accurate.... should I start looking at everybody's charts in Sidereal? I mean, it seems like it's more of a personal thing, like, I relate more to my Sidereal chart, but someone else relates more to their Tropical... so what do I do? =/
Click to expand...
Everyone has a Sidereal chart and a Tropical chart - just that most are unfamiliar with their Sidereal chart :smile:
 
Alamits

Alamits

Well-known member
The only real difference, though big, is the fact that sidereal is 23-24 degrees behind tropical...so to a certain extent they are going to be similar..examine the planets in the houses and signs...I found for myself it doesn't work well.. I am a Sag/Gem/Aqu sun moon rising in tropical..and Scor/Tau/Aqu sun moon and rising in sidereal..doesn't make too much sense to me in sidereal...another thing to look into is how sidereal came about...I would say learning about where sidereal came from would be your first step then your own chart :)
 
taubra

taubra

Well-known member
See, that's another thing I find so odd.
How can some people relate so well to sidereal, and not to tropical ~ and then vice versa?

Gah.
Astrology.
Whyyousomean?
 
Alamits

Alamits

Well-known member
taubra said:
See, that's another thing I find so odd.
How can some people relate so well to sidereal, and not to tropical ~ and then vice versa?

Gah.
Astrology.
Whyyousomean?
Click to expand...
We relate to both because of the angles of the planets...when it comes to houses and signs is when we don't relate to one...as I said look at the history of the sidereal zodiac and see what you think...then try it against your own chart both ways...best way to be sure :)
I was taught the history but to keep the possibility of bias out of the forum and picture I suggest you do it to draw your own conclusion :)
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
taubra said:
See, that's another thing I find so odd.
How can some people relate so well to sidereal, and not to tropical ~ and then vice versa?

Gah.
Astrology.
Whyyousomean?
Click to expand...
It is interesting! If you read Sidereal astrology interpretation and compare that to tropical interpretation, using your own chart as an example, then you gain insights as to why that is.

btw a nine minute video explains the differences between Sidereal years and Tropical years at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI&feature=related :smile:
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
It might well be that, based upon their blood-line or pre-natal astrological imprints upon their subtle energetic biofield some individuals are more susceptible to constellational energies (star influences) and so find more exactness when considering the constellations (the sidereal zodiacal matrix chart), while other individuals' subtle energetic biofields are immune (or nearly so) to the constellations, in which case the subtle energies of the division of space into the signs (tropical signs = divisions of the space of the ecliptic which are always the same relative to time) are the influences which make the impression upon their subtle energetic biofields, and so the signs (tropical signs) yield the most accurate indications for these individuals.

This is one of several explanations (hypotheses) for this phenonema

(for example, in the case of my late wife, and in my own case, our tropical zodiacal horoscopes have been very precise, and the sidereal horoscopes, mostly imprecise with many incorrect indications; yet I have also used sidereal charts in certain cases, with quite precise/accurate indications; however, although I respect sidereal-especially using a little known ayanamsa called the Alcyone/Pleiades correction, which currently is 30degrees12minutes different than the tropical chart-nonetheless I am a strong advocate of the tropical zodiacal matrix)
 
tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
taubra said:
Ahh, come sit in this boat with me, and keep me company during this confusing time.
^-^

Astrology can be such an inconvenience to learn.
My brain may very well explode.

I was wondering the same things, actually.
I posted a question on the "other astrology" board, regarding the signs maybe meaning different things. You may want to find it and check it out to see if anyone replies, or something.
Click to expand...

I can sit in your boat with you. The more I learn, the more I can find ways to make my tropical chart fit, but the learning curve is pretty steep, and I had to go past a lot of cookbook definitions to get there. Here is an example

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43114

And for an even more detailed look, you can see here

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41281

Brain exploding? Been there as well...

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40285

I don't think the signs mean different things in different zodiacs. And I do think that each is a different measurement of the same thing. So, the real question is more along the lines of do you relate better to inches or centimeters?
 
SniperBomber328

SniperBomber328

Well-known member
Sidereal makes more sense practically (not to mention historically), and Tropical, more biased and perpetuated. Personlly I am biased towards Tropical since I got so used to looking at my natal chart in that format, but I am starting to incline towards Sidereal the more research I do on both systems.

Guess it's all about which system resonates with a person. A Mars in Scorpio or a Mars in Libra (am I a impulsive and power seeking person or a diplomat who does't like to argue)? A Sun in Pisces or a Sun in Aquarius (an inventor or a musician)?

In Tropical half of my planets are angular. In Sidereal all my planets are angular. Either system works towards my advantage (especially Sidereal, more power too me)!

Though when interpreting in either system don't forget to include aspects, house placement, dignities/debilities, points such as the PoF and PoS and all the others thousand methods Astrology has. :joyful:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
dr. farr's useful comment on another thread highlights the fact that Sidereal Vedic astrological interpretation differs from Western Sidereal interpretation - although there is some similarity :smile:
dr. farr said:
Answer to the OP's question: yes (in Western Sideral astrology) the signs, planets, aspects and all other factors have the same meaning/interpretations as in Western tropical: only the zodiacal matrix is different.

In Vedic astrology (the vast majority of practitioners of Vedic follow the sidereal matrix) there are many differences between meanings in the Vedic model vs the Western (especially the Modernist Western model, whether tropical or sidereal) but there are also very many similarities of meaning/interpretation, between the 2 systems as well...
Click to expand...
 
retinoid

retinoid

Well-known member
Try as I may, I just don't see sidereal as accurate for people around me or me...I had a friend who was extremely aries like so much so that before I knew her bday I knew she was ARIAN in some manner and she has an aries sun and aries asc and pisces moon. The sidereal puts her as a TRIPLE pisces. This is so incorrect that it is laughable...I've looked at the aspects and such and they too cannot explain any 'aspect caused' or house caused personality traits of an aries.

Just my opinion...I'm open minded but just don't see sidereal as accurate. Of course due to the ASPECTS...an astrologer will be able to read a chart relatively well in both systems...
 
Shanti

Shanti

Well-known member
To me I feel that both systems may work in some way.

If not, the whole point of astrology would be slightly ridiculous with so many skilled astrologers using these two
systems side by side daily I feel.

There is a saint astrologer in India highly respected by all vedic astrologers, and is on the big conferences et.c
Many western and indian astrologers have him as an astrological Guru. Swami Sivanandamurty

He uses sidereal positions for natal work and tropical for mundane work for example. Which is not practiced by other jyotishis that I know of. I think the question of which system
is best is up to the individual astrologer.

Robert Hand uses tropical positions, but is also using some sidereal techniques he states at his site.

On sites like scyscript for example, where there are a lot of skilled astrologers and some pros, there is respect for sidereal astrology
even if the site is tropical.
Martin Gansten, who is one of the most respected members and moderator of the sidereal/vedic section, is actually the author of a highly acclaimed book about Primary Directions,( which is read mostly by tropicalísts I guess).
He is himself a Siderealist.
http://www.martingansten.com/a.php

I think the more one studies this issue and the more mature one's wiews get along the way the more open minded one becomes about it.
But thats my own particular opinion, which may not be shared by all...
smiley.gif


I prefer sidereal by choice.
 
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