mental issues

So i was reading that thread on schizophrenia and i was noticing some patterns that it was saying on people who may have schizophrenia...i didnt want to post this there because i wasnt sure if it was appropriate in that section....but, i was wondering about my own mental issues....it had said in that thread that " sun conjunct jupiter square mars, usually links to schizophrenia." Well my sun is sextile jupiter square mars in (pisces). My sun is also, square pluto, and square saturn (in scorpio.) (pluto and sat conjunct my asc.)This got me thinking a little bit because i have battled alot of emotional issues ( depression, eating disorders, self esteem, image issues, OCD, major anxiety, obsessiveness in general etc.) Alot of these things even get in the way of my daily life sometimes, especially the image thing because i dont even like to leave my house at times because of the way i look, ( stupid huh?). so basically my question is to who ever is reading this, is that do these aspects reflect only schizophrenia, or mental disorders in general? Am i correct about the aspects of my own that i interperted?

deleted post.

thanks jag,
haha i didnt say i thought i was schizophrenic....but i thought maybe since some of my aspects were like the ones in ur article that could explain some of my "psychological issues." ive been to psychiatrists and what not, but i feel like in the past 2 yrs i really have gotten to know myself, BYMYSELF and i find why i feel the way i do, but something is still "blocking me." interesting outlook on the venus thing by the way---but i didnt quite understand what u meant :"I think if you have chosen "The Birth of Venus" of Botticelli as your logo, that's because i think unconsiously you wished a "renaissance" of yourself, since Botticelli is a Renaissance painter." what does renaissance of yourself mean?

A few considerations...

a) You've got the 3rd/9th axis intercepted - 3rd/9th is the mental axis, with the 3rd being the logical mind and the 9th the abstract, philosophical mind. Intercepted houses are said to point to areas of special focus, things we need to work through to further ourselves

b) You've got Pluto, ruler of psychology and self-observation, among other things, rising tight with the ascendant, at the final (hot) degree of Libra (balancing) -- some balancing of the self's projection (ascendant) is indicated, and Pluto plays a big role in your persona.

c) You've got your Sun smack between (midpoint) Mercury/Venus; This can indicate some pull between wanting to be logical and analyzing (Mercury) and abstract and creative (Venus). This midpoint in and of itself says nothing of any sort of trouble, but the pull and blending of fairly different energies focused by your Sun (conscious) could be a contributing factor. Mercury also sits tightly between Venus and Jupiter, two quite abstract planets. Mercury/Venus also form a novile aspect (40 degree, 9th harmonic) further linking the two.

d) Your Mercury is Retrograde, and before the Sun (by zodiac degree), a phase Michael Meyer terms "Promethian Retrograde", indicating a mind that likes to go against the social norms and conventions, in a rebellious fashion. This is a placement of serious thinkers and philosophers, and we're all a little crazy in our own special ways; not that there's anything wrong with that This is also the beginning of Mercury's 4-fold cycle, indicating the new building of the mental facilities created anew. Challenges you face will contribute to the building of Mercury, and are likely engineered purposely for your personal development. More on the Promethian Mercury, a placement I too have: http://www.khaldea.com/planets/merc_px.shtml

e) Mercury in tight quintile to Saturn (in fact the closest aspect in your chart counting the planets/nodes) - Mercury is the mind, Saturn is structuring and the quintile (5th harmonic, 72 deg) aspect is strongly associated with unique and highly personalized ways of expressing oneself, much as is the 5th house, and the 5th sign Leo. So, the structures you build in your mind are expressive and unique, and when it comes to ways of thinking, psychology unfortunately says that any mental structures that don't meet rigid expected guidelines are issues... The field makes little deviation for the uniqueness of individuals, and how some "disorders" are actually part of a deeper karmic healing process within the native.

In the end, I'm sure we both qualify for a hoard of psychological disorders. I have the unfortunate reality of coming from a family of psychologists, and can easily say that conventional western psychology, as taught by the universities, is reductive and limited, and it insults the potential of man's ability, reducing a vast majority of our ways to issues created by either chemical imbalances or unresolved childhood difficulties. Sure, some shrinks get past the reductive nature and limited scope of their field, but you'll find these fine folks generally employ many more methods in their practice beyond typical dry psychology as taught in the universities, including astrology and other metaphysical arts. They call themselves psychologists (and got the degree) so they can help people while insurance pays for it, something hard to do without holding a psychological degree these days.

It's also not surprising to see someone with Neptune (drugs, etc) on the 3rd house cusp (the mind) enjoy mind altering substances. THC is actually an excellent dopamine-system balancer and far less harmful than some other substances, assuming it's not used in excess which can lead to lung difficulties given prolonged usage, a normal side effect of any smoked substance. Many people find it a suitable replacement for the various psychotropics that greedy drug companies are pushing. I'm all for natural medication over lab-brewed chemicals.

Addition: Your Mercury is not only in tight aspect to Saturn, but placed in Capricorn: Could rigidity place a role in what you may face? Saturn/Capricorn represents a rigid energy that likes to hang on to past tendencies.

The sabian symbol for the 17th degree of Capricorn, your Mercury degree, is also most interesting:
287 (Cap 17°)
REPRESSED WOMAN FINDS A PSYCHOLOGICAL RELEASE IN NUDISM Escape from bondage to social inhibitions. Readjustment of relation of spirit to body. Self-purification. Self-confrontation.
___*When positive, the degree is a highly effective dramatization of the basic characteristics and potentials of self, and when negative, furtiveness or eccentricity.

all i can say is "wow" unukalhai. thats deep. especially when you said this:

"Mercury in tight quintile to Saturn (in fact the closest aspect in your chart counting the planets/nodes) - Mercury is the mind, Saturn is structuring and the quintile (5th harmonic, 72 deg) aspect is strongly associated with unique and highly personalized ways of expressing oneself, much as is the 5th house, and the 5th sign Leo. So, the structures you build in your mind are expressive and unique, and when it comes to ways of thinking, psychology unfortunately says that any mental structures that don't meet rigid expected guidelines are issues... The field makes little deviation for the uniqueness of individuals, and how some "disorders" are actually part of a deeper karmic healing process within the native."

i always knew my "creative" way of learning didnt meet guidelines and expectations because i was told it didnt. english is a second language for me even though i was born here, and in class i was always in my own world because i didnt understand, and i just never payed attention. i was just always socializing with others or myself. my parents never wanted to admit that anything was wrong with me, and how i had big problems paying attention. at 23 years old now, i still dont know how to study, school is something i just DONT understand. i only did 2 yrs community college and i just never understood it. i tried so hard sometimes, and it just is not possible. i feel like my thoughts are never organized in an orderly fashion in my brain or something. i always thought it had something to do with my mercury being retro. after reading what you analyzed, its kind of starting to make sense. maybe in a past life i was some kind of philosopher (what u said about my merc/cap, before my sun)...and i was so crazy and neurotic, i just ran out of it for this life! LOL thank you for taking the time to look at it. i copy everything from this forum i like into a notebook i have

You're welcome And I hear you! I too have a strong quintile aspect to Mercury, from Jupiter though, and I am very similar. School didn't work for me really, like you I couldn't deal with conventional ways of learning... So, I taught myself in what I wanted to do, and with some hard work and dedication, it all worked out. Congrats on making it 2 years into college, you've got me beat

With Mercury/Saturn interaction like you have, especially with Mercury placed in Capricorn and the unique nature of the quintile, I think your thoughts have the ability to be organized and very structured, however maybe not in the same way others would understand or appreciate. Think of the messy room where you can find anything, but it's totally disorganized to anyone else! There's nothing wrong with that, but you will likely need to experiment with what approach works best for you... Perhaps you've spent too much energy trying to make the usual "norms" work for you, when what you really need to do is find your own ways of handling things. Some of the brightest minds in the world have battled this; If you read about some of the folks considered geniuses, you'll find they are usually quite eccentric and had to overcome the norms and restrictions of what the less eccentric types place on them before they could ignite the mental spark that led to their recognition.

Mercury RX certainly adds to the situation; it can make one analyze and reanalyze things, and sometimes makes the path to analysis take detours. With Mercury RX, you have to understand things in a more overall sense; things won't make sense until you have enough pieces of the puzzle, but once you have those pieces, there is often this sort of click and things just start falling into place. The real challenge is learning how to start acquiring those pieces, so you can integrate them. At least this is how it's worked for me; if I only have topical knowledge, it's totally useless, but when I can start stringing pieces of the puzzle together, I can use Mercury's RX nature to drill down into something.

Momentum might also be a challenge for you, as Mercury stationed direct a mere 8hours 31min after you were born, thus your natal Mercury has a very slow motion, 0.04 (where 1 is average speed) according to Astrolog. This also means Mercury turned direct quickly in your progressed chart, on June 6th 1983, before you had your first birthday! I hadn't noticed this before, and I think this might actually have a large factor in considerations astrologically. Possibly you have a hard time getting your focus going, and need to find personal motivation to really concentrate on something. It might play out like what psychology calls "ADD" (attention deficit disorder) which in all reality is a pathological way of saying you have Mercury in some sort of configuration which reduces its automatic focus. Mercury Retrograde and dynamic aspects from Uranus are common in the charts of "ADD" people, atleast from the limited sampling of "ADD" charts I've seen. I've also read Neptune can play a role, since it is so liquid and tends to dissolve focus. One of the more positive aspects of "ADD" is once the native is entranced, they stay in that state; I've had my own less pathological name for "ADD" since I was labeled as having it: HFA - Hyper Focus Ability. It's pretty well acknowledged among the shrink circles that once a native can start to find focus, they'll focus intensely on what they desire to focus on, and nothing else. It's what I call the "high side" of "ADD", and what we should work towards. Sure, we can be harder to entrain upon some useless boring task or learning knowledge we don't want, but hey... Why bother in the first place? That's how people become boring generalists, mildly decent at many things and great at nothing. They say it'll hurt us because we won't be able to focus on the less enjoyable but required parts of life, but I call BS: as long as you realize you've got to be responsible when you need to be, that's that. Besides, how much focus does it really take to pay a bill or show up in court for a traffic ticket? How many people are any good at being responsible these days anyways? I rest my case

I should also add creative ways of thinking and learning are the hallmark of genius. The folks who have attained recognized genius status don't get there by thinking like everyone else; it's their unique ways of thinking and understanding situations that set them apart.

Also, I see why you've chosen Venus as your name.. Your progressed IC angle is right on your natal Venus this year! A nice progression, a great time to learn to love all the little quirks you have, because deep down, they make up who you truly are, and acceptance is the first step to transmutation

Anyways, just some more thoughts

deleted post.

It's pretty well acknowledged among the shrink circles that once a native can start to find focus, they'll focus intensely on what they desire to focus on, and nothing else. It's what I call the "high side" of "ADD", and what we should work towards. Sure, we can be harder to entrain upon some useless boring task or learning knowledge we don't want, but hey... Why bother in the first place?

Click to expand...

i think i live by that quote! hahahaha in my whole life, i think i can ONLY focus on one thing at a time, and only if i want to. when i read something, it has to be something i want to read otherwise im reading and not paying attention because i cant!!! ahhhh you nailed EVERYTHING !!!!! i just never figured out how to fix that problem. thats why i had such a problem in school. i always thought to myself "oh well, why fix it if i dont care if im not going to be able to solve it anyways?" )lol ,its good to know im not the only one. thanks for all those insights too!
JAG- thats what i thought you meant "reforming" , its so funny because throughout the day im always catching myself at doing or being or thinking "plutonian" things about myself. i sometimes even obsess about how i could transform my self and my image .(pluto conj asc) i feel like its some deep dark side that takes over me and my mind. its so weird. pluto def plays a big role of my persona. as for the 1985 thing, ill ask my mother what may have happened...i dunno the insights you guys gave me, are starting to make me think ( no pun intended haha)

I've been battling bipolar for about a year now and am on mood stabilizers to calm my mania.

I have uranus on my 1st house and pluto/mars conjunct my ascendant in the 12th house (very close to 1st so it could be interpreted in both).

Any other further analysis?

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=achart_ox4fileaQB0Pe-u1160526055.127.12413.gif&res=63&va

Thanks I appreciate it!

What a chart!

Tight Mars/Pluto conjunction above the Ascendant conjuct tight Sun-North Node conjunction, Saturn-Moon conjunction...

I'm not sure how to interpret this chart because I feel overwhelmed just looking at it.

Arian Maverick

hmm... would appreciate some sort of interpretive analysis, I am just intriqued

Attached is a general interpretation of all of your aspects, courtesy of Canopus.

Arian Maverick

Wow, thank you so much!!!!!

Well done for such great posts! I never studied this before. I have a question. In natal work can one use Mutual Reception between planets and replace each other when they are in each others houses. I know in Horary it is common. Can you also use this in Natal? Many thanks.
PS I know this sounds out of context but something clicked when reading this thread and could make a difference. Thanks

antonis,
i think that mutual reception can always be used....i might be wrong though. when that occurs, i think the energies work better together or something.

Venus,
I hope too. In the context of this thread a mutual reception could be a means of avoiding a developing situation and this could be via a working medication or an event such as a shock or some therapy which causes escape from a difficult situation, a way out sort of speak.

unukalhai said:

A few considerations...

a) You've got the 3rd/9th axis intercepted - 3rd/9th is the mental axis, with the 3rd being the logical mind and the 9th the abstract, philosophical mind. Intercepted houses are said to point to areas of special focus, things we need to work through to further ourselves

b) You've got Pluto, ruler of psychology and self-observation, among other things, rising tight with the ascendant, at the final (hot) degree of Libra (balancing) -- some balancing of the self's projection (ascendant) is indicated, and Pluto plays a big role in your persona.

c) You've got your Sun smack between (midpoint) Mercury/Venus; This can indicate some pull between wanting to be logical and analyzing (Mercury) and abstract and creative (Venus). This midpoint in and of itself says nothing of any sort of trouble, but the pull and blending of fairly different energies focused by your Sun (conscious) could be a contributing factor. Mercury also sits tightly between Venus and Jupiter, two quite abstract planets. Mercury/Venus also form a novile aspect (40 degree, 9th harmonic) further linking the two.

d) Your Mercury is Retrograde, and before the Sun (by zodiac degree), a phase Michael Meyer terms "Promethian Retrograde", indicating a mind that likes to go against the social norms and conventions, in a rebellious fashion. This is a placement of serious thinkers and philosophers, and we're all a little crazy in our own special ways; not that there's anything wrong with that This is also the beginning of Mercury's 4-fold cycle, indicating the new building of the mental facilities created anew. Challenges you face will contribute to the building of Mercury, and are likely engineered purposely for your personal development. More on the Promethian Mercury, a placement I too have: http://www.khaldea.com/planets/merc_px.shtml

e) Mercury in tight quintile to Saturn (in fact the closest aspect in your chart counting the planets/nodes) - Mercury is the mind, Saturn is structuring and the quintile (5th harmonic, 72 deg) aspect is strongly associated with unique and highly personalized ways of expressing oneself, much as is the 5th house, and the 5th sign Leo. So, the structures you build in your mind are expressive and unique, and when it comes to ways of thinking, psychology unfortunately says that any mental structures that don't meet rigid expected guidelines are issues... The field makes little deviation for the uniqueness of individuals, and how some "disorders" are actually part of a deeper karmic healing process within the native.

In the end, I'm sure we both qualify for a hoard of psychological disorders. I have the unfortunate reality of coming from a family of psychologists, and can easily say that conventional western psychology, as taught by the universities, is reductive and limited, and it insults the potential of man's ability, reducing a vast majority of our ways to issues created by either chemical imbalances or unresolved childhood difficulties. Sure, some shrinks get past the reductive nature and limited scope of their field, but you'll find these fine folks generally employ many more methods in their practice beyond typical dry psychology as taught in the universities, including astrology and other metaphysical arts. They call themselves psychologists (and got the degree) so they can help people while insurance pays for it, something hard to do without holding a psychological degree these days.

It's also not surprising to see someone with Neptune (drugs, etc) on the 3rd house cusp (the mind) enjoy mind altering substances. THC is actually an excellent dopamine-system balancer and far less harmful than some other substances, assuming it's not used in excess which can lead to lung difficulties given prolonged usage, a normal side effect of any smoked substance. Many people find it a suitable replacement for the various psychotropics that greedy drug companies are pushing. I'm all for natural medication over lab-brewed chemicals.

Addition: Your Mercury is not only in tight aspect to Saturn, but placed in Capricorn: Could rigidity place a role in what you may face? Saturn/Capricorn represents a rigid energy that likes to hang on to past tendencies.

The sabian symbol for the 17th degree of Capricorn, your Mercury degree, is also most interesting:
287 (Cap 17°)
REPRESSED WOMAN FINDS A PSYCHOLOGICAL RELEASE IN NUDISM Escape from bondage to social inhibitions. Readjustment of relation of spirit to body. Self-purification. Self-confrontation.
___*When positive, the degree is a highly effective dramatization of the basic characteristics and potentials of self, and when negative, furtiveness or eccentricity.

Click to expand...

I hear you on the limited psycho drugs or poison that is given out by so called mental health professionals. At the moment, I have reduced my addiction to anti depressants to one pill. It has taken me two years to do it. I become so physically sick that I just lay in bed. I am serious, an addiction to anti depressants and I do not even get high. What is sooooooooooo Bad about these kinds of meds, they destroy your dream cycles. Dream time is a place a person heals. That is why alcoholism is major bad or one of the reasons, no dream time. Dreaming is a great benefit to helping solve problems, reducing stress, etc.



I read an article the other day that made a lot of sense. They describe Post traumatic stress disorder has more of a somatic or bodily malfunction. The article went on to describe that Cerebral talk therapists never even get near helping a person, but making them worse by the continual talk of what happened. The person is subjected over and over to what happened by talking about it, but never gets any better. BTW, PTSD can be at times the root of a lot of other disorders.
Convertional help is cerebral and uses many drugs for PTSD, which aggravates the condition more than it helps.

I have found that Bodywork and other modalities are much more effective than Talk therapy. Besides, I have found that most Talk therapists tend to lord over their power and create ineffective healing space because the client is subjected to yet another power imbalance. I once knew a lady whose daugher was killed in car accident. They kept her on meds. She finally got to the point and said NO. The mental health psychologists went nuts and one said you will not get better if you leave here and not take antidepressants and the like.


LOL, I have mercury oppose Pluto, so talk therapy is almost out of the question for me to begin with. I also think all psychologists should be trained as astrologers.

groovygal said:

I've been battling bipolar for about a year now and am on mood stabilizers to calm my mania.

I have uranus on my 1st house and pluto/mars conjunct my ascendant in the 12th house (very close to 1st so it could be interpreted in both).

Any other further analysis?

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=achart_ox4fileaQB0Pe-u1160526055.127.12413.gif&res=63&va

Thanks I appreciate it!

Click to expand...

Could you please put you chart back. It has expired.

My two cents worth after much research. Please, I am not a physician, nor this is intended to take place of what you are currently doing with somene.

the only true bi polar people are people who born with is genetically predisposed condition. Many develop bi polor through very irresposible handling of medication and possibly develop psychosis. I read a book written by a phsysician, called the anti depressant solution and what he wrote seemed almost scarry considering the amount of anti depressants given to people these days. In fact, not only anti depressants but many considered helpful medications actually make a person worse. A few anti depressants actually mimic mania when in fact it is the med, not the person. Subsequentily, they are given more meds and diagnosed as bi polar. The percentage of labled bi polar people have risen in the past five to ten years tenfold.
One of the reasons is pharmacuticals is big business. Lot of money to be made keeping people strung out on medication. I have met countless people who take more than one med for bi polar and when they have something else that is wrong that needs to be addressed.
I am sure a few people actually do need something and meds can be helpful. However, I think anymore when a person is given a diagnosis they should do much research and bring in the family to help deteremine if this in fact the right way to go.
Your brain and nervous system is not made for a continual onslaught of medication. It is not getting to the problem. Children are being given anti psychotic medication now. Either out society as a whole is extremely messed up or these children do not need this kind of medication. Maybe they need a couple of weeks in the wilderness camping, nuturing society, not medication.
My daughter took ritilin for six months and I took her off of it. Her hair fell out and she lost wieght. I found different alternatives for her and she now is doing great and very productive.

Very sorry to hear about this, bi polar is a label no one wants, nor the consequences of what medication does to a person.

this society is farming mentally ill people on the premise of Mentel health.

I once knew a lady who was depressed for 20 years and took anti depressants. She found the right nutrition and within two months she was not depressed anymore. she told her psych she was not going to take the meds anymore and they said, you cannot do that. Well, she did and is much better off.

What I am trying to say, is there may be something more helpful and do not exclude yourself from finding anything helpful besides medication

Belief.net has some good info on it for people. there are many books out there as well.

Hello,
I agree with you in that a lot of people are largely misdiagnosed for pharmaceutical profits and to keep the field of psychology alive, however, that doesn't mean the illness doesn't exist and that people should deny treatment if they feel they indeed require it. My bipolar has lead me into dangerous situations in the past, and I'm still trying to battle it today.
I have mania- if you don't know what that is, it's racing thoughts, grandiose feelings, and exhaustable extreme energy, that rages ups and downs in cyclical stage. On the plus side, it gives me lots of creativity.

The medication helps sedates these "rushing", yet often depleting energy levels.

I use to be a non-believer in medication, aiming more towards the holistic/natural approach, and I still do... but with the medication, my quality of life is improved.

-Groovy
PS My chart below