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  #1  
Unread 12-08-2019, 11:52 AM
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Famous people born with very similar placements

I noticed that the current Mexican president was born one day after a former French prime minister with a very similar Ascendant (around the middle of Virgo), obviously in different locations.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank...%C3%A9s_Manuel
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank...pin,_Dominique

Does anyone know other famous people born at the same date 1 day with similar Ascendants?

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Unread 12-08-2019, 07:21 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I noticed that the current Mexican president was born one day after a former French prime minister with a very similar Ascendant (around the middle of Virgo), obviously in different locations.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank...%C3%A9s_Manuel
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank...pin,_Dominique

Does anyone know other famous people born at the same date 1 day with similar Ascendants?
Hi petosiris,

If you read Morinus, he touches on that.

I can't remember where I read about it, but two men were born in London at either identical birth times or within a minute or two of each other.

One became king of Britain and the other an industrial magnate, that is, the king or captain of his industry.

That's pretty weird, but it also validates astrology.

It takes Jupiter about a year to traverse the signs, so he's in each sign for about a month (more if he's slow or retrograde). That means a lot of people will be born with Saturn and Jupiter in the same signs. The difference will be the inferiors, Sun, Moon, Asc, MC and Mars of course.

I'd bet if you found similar charts, those people are largely politicians, CEOs, general officers in the military, presidents of business, civic or community groups, or leading scientists or researchers in their fields as dictated by the chart.

Even if not, they'd still have some success. They might not be a CEO, but they might be a plant manager or other high level manager or executive or shop foreman/supervisor or some other leadership capacity in their area.

Anyway, don't be shocked if you find more charts that are similar.
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Unread 12-08-2019, 08:07 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

While not as stringent as the criteria you have given, here are 3 charts of famous people born within 2 weeks of each other.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank..._Michael_(1958)
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Burton,_Tim
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Madonna

While the unreliability of the data may invalidate them for your exercise, one is called the king of pop, while the other is the queen - talk about coincidence. The other is a premiere filmmaker near the top of the hierarchy of his profession. There was a poster here who was born within 24 hours of Michael Jackson who boasted about high musical ability, but circumstances did not allow for it's maximisation. She indicated that she wrote for a living.

While I've often heard the argument of twins used to invalidate astrological claims, I've noticed particular similarities with persons born closely to each other. One date is January 7, 1997 - I know of a baby who died hours after birth, a woman who is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and a man who admitted to psychopathic tendencies when I read his chart.

Another example is Dec 1, 1995. I knew of a woman who was studying for school to be a high school teacher - something to which she was passionate about. I also knew another woman who was dissatisfied with the major that her parents forced her to do because of it's lucrativeness, and in fact wanted to be a high school teacher.

I haven't been pouring over charts recently, but if I happen to find data with more integrity, I will post some up.
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Unread 12-09-2019, 01:04 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

I think the book was "The Fated Sky" by Bodrick. He gave an example from an astrologer who, lived in a town where there was a birth of two boys within five minutes of each other. One was to a rich family, the other to a poor family. In his observations throughout their lives, he saw that when one broke a bone, so did the other, the same bone. When one was arrested for horse theft, the other was also brought up on horse theft, just of a richer nature than the other. He gave other examples of their similar lives.
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Unread 12-09-2019, 03:03 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Here is an example of two sets of famous twins.

Tia & Tamara Mowry

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mowry,_Tia
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mowry,_Tamera

Reggie & Ronnie Kray

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kray,_Reggie
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kray,_Ronnie

A cursory perusal shows many similarities in the life-path of both sets of twins, yet there are key differences in the realm of outward personality, morality and response to experience. Maybe one can argue that, in the case of the Kray twins, Ronnie's manifestation of schizophrenia and homosexuality were latent potentials in Reg (apparently there was a sort of incestuous homo-eroticism between the two, but I'm willing to be corrected on that). But in the case of the Mowry twins, one had a stricter adherence to religion than the other, which affected her expression of sexuality while the other showed no such proclivity.

Another interesting issue the Kray twins example brings up is the issue of length of life techniques - with very minuscule difference between the charts, one died 5 years after the other. What does this say about the efficacy of alcocoden, apheta and the hyleg in determining the amount of years a chart owner is given?
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Unread 12-09-2019, 04:47 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
It takes Jupiter about a year to traverse the signs, so he's in each sign for about a month (more if he's slow or retrograde). That means a lot of people will be born with Saturn and Jupiter in the same signs. The difference will be the inferiors, Sun, Moon, Asc, MC and Mars of course.
Hi AJ,

I am well aware of planetary orbits and speed. Jupiter takes 11.86 years to traverse the zodiac, Saturn - 29.45, so they take about a year and 2 1/2 to traverse each sign (more with specific retrogradations)

I specifically mentioned same date 1 to have the chance of having the Moon in the same sign.
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Unread 12-09-2019, 05:54 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

I think that in the case of twins (not ''time twins''), the multiple birth itself present in the chart could be responsible for some change of destiny, especially in the case of identical twins.

It depends on what you are trying to do with astrology, and whether you are trying to predict particulars at exact time, or universals with a given range of time. For example, in both Mowry's charts, there are benefic aspects to the MC around the time of childbirths through primary directions, but some could be unsatisfied with 10 years of range.

Ancient astrologers were bent on having everything enslaved by planets, whereas modern science is often satisfied with anything obtaining result higher than chance, no matter how minor the effect is.

If there is little change of placements, there might be more difference with each solar and lunar revolution if that is your kind of thing, and especially if you use current location for someone who is prone to travel (like celebrities).

Quote:
Another interesting issue the Kray twins example brings up is the issue of length of life techniques - with very minuscule difference between the charts, one died 5 years after the other. What does this say about the efficacy of alcocoden, apheta and the hyleg in determining the amount of years a chart owner is given?
It depends on how minuscule the difference is. In Elvis' chart, his stillborn brother should also have had Saturn square Ascendant, which with other already present malefic aspects reasonably place him in the category of those who are not reared. With hyleg, there should be a difference of house placements, if there isn't, while there is large difference of years (say 3-7 because of the ray?), it is an essential problem of the technique.

Last edited by petosiris; 12-09-2019 at 06:23 AM.
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Unread 12-09-2019, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Hi AJ,

I am well aware of planetary orbits and speed. Jupiter takes 11.86 years to traverse the zodiac, Saturn - 29.45, so they take about a year and 2 1/2 to traverse each sign (more with specific retrogradations)

I specifically mentioned same date 1 to have the chance of having the Moon in the same sign.
Hi petosiris,

You might check these people born +-2 days:

https://famouspeople.astro-seek.com/famous-birthdate/12-november-1953

https://famouspeople.astro-seek.com/famous-birthdate/13-november-1953

https://famouspeople.astro-seek.com/famous-birthdate/14-november-1953

https://famouspeople.astro-seek.com/famous-birthdate/15-november-1953

There are mostly actors and birth of time is mostly uknown :/

But there is one guy Milan Stech born on 13th November 1953 with the same Moon:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_%C5%A0t%C4%9Bch
He is/was politician in my local country:

Czech social-democratic politician and former trade union leader who served as the President of the Senate of the Czech Republic from 2010 to 2018 and has been Senator from Pelhřimov since 1996.[1] From 2008 to 2010 he served as Vice-President of the Senate. Since 14 November 2018 he has been Vice-President of the Senate of the Czech Republic again
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Unread 12-09-2019, 07:45 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktuzz View Post
Hi petosiris,

You might check these people born +-2 days:

https://famouspeople.astro-seek.com/...-november-1953

https://famouspeople.astro-seek.com/...-november-1953

https://famouspeople.astro-seek.com/...-november-1953

https://famouspeople.astro-seek.com/...-november-1953

There are mostly actors and birth of time is mostly uknown :/

But there is one guy Milan Stech born on 13th November 1953 with the same Moon:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_%C5%A0t%C4%9Bch
He is/was politician in my local country:

Czech social-democratic politician and former trade union leader who served as the President of the Senate of the Czech Republic from 2010 to 2018 and has been Senator from Pelhřimov since 1996.[1] From 2008 to 2010 he served as Vice-President of the Senate. Since 14 November 2018 he has been Vice-President of the Senate of the Czech Republic again
Hi kaktuzz,
It is interesting that there is a third dignified politician born around the same time with the same planetary placements (possibly different hour though?).

I discovered this by accident while looking at the Mexican president's chart. I thought to myself that the chart has an interesting configuration for eminence (morning rising planets at the Ascendant in aspect with the Moon) that would be present for the next day with the addition of Jupiter. I found the French guy after googling the date and seeing famous people born at the time. I didn't expect the same Ascendant and similar focus on politics, so it was a very weird coincidence.

Btw just to clarify, I am interested in any other similar situations with other dates, not just that particular date.
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Unread 12-09-2019, 10:20 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
While not as stringent as the criteria you have given, here are 3 charts of famous people born within 2 weeks of each other.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank..._Michael_(1958)
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Burton,_Tim
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Madonna

While the unreliability of the data may invalidate them for your exercise, one is called the king of pop, while the other is the queen - talk about coincidence. The other is a premiere filmmaker near the top of the hierarchy of his profession. There was a poster here who was born within 24 hours of Michael Jackson who boasted about high musical ability, but circumstances did not allow for it's maximisation. She indicated that she wrote for a living.
Hi petosiris,

That's what I'm talking about. That's what we should be seeing and in fact we do see it.

Quote:
While I've often heard the argument of twins used to invalidate astrological claims, I've noticed particular similarities with persons born closely to each other. One date is January 7, 1997 - I know of a baby who died hours after birth, a woman who is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and a man who admitted to psychopathic tendencies when I read his chart.

Those claims are made by non-astrologers for purposes of propaganda and disinformation and they prey on the ignorance of people.

Identical twins are not born at the exact same time, contrary to popular belief.

If you study the medical literature on multiple births, twins are born on average about 20 minutes apart in one study of 800 and some odd multiple births.

It's not uncommon for twins to be born 30 minutes to an hour or more apart.

Sun moves 1 degree every 4 minutes, so 20 minutes means Sun has moved 5 degrees.

That could be enough to change signs, or change bounds, and of course Sun's 12th Part will be in a different bound/sign, too.

That is sufficient to explain the subtle variations in the behavior of twins.

One twin has Sun in the bound of Mercury and the other in the bound of Mars, well, they're going to be a little different.

The Asc is likely to be in a different bound, too.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 02:33 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

I knew twin boys in high school. I did not know them well. One was very studious, shy, thin and quiet. The other was a rebel, loud, muscular, outgoing. He died in a motorcycle accident when he was 18. The other is still around.

Twins are not the same as astral twins.

I will find my book Petosiris, and give you the details, as I remember them to be quite interesting. I read it long ago, and my details, are very limited.

My husbands brother is a twin. She is said to have died within 9 hours of birth. Her grave was exhumed, a few years back. She wasn't there. We are not sure, where she is. The powers that be are not at all assistive. There is 18 minutes I believe between their birth time.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 03:26 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Sun moves 1 degree every 4 minutes, so 20 minutes means Sun has moved 5 degrees.

That could be enough to change signs, or change bounds, and of course Sun's 12th Part will be in a different bound/sign, too.
Dude, the Sun travels 360 in a year not a day, and Jupiter in 12 years, not 1 year.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 03:43 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Dude, the Sun travels 360 in a year not a day, and Jupiter in 12 years, not 1 year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbM3PwcGi0g
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Unread 12-10-2019, 04:00 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9jcS11pTJY
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Unread 12-10-2019, 04:08 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Haha, well played.

Unfortunately I don't have any examples for your original question.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 02:23 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

I found it. Pages 305 - 306 of The Fated Sky by Benson Bobrick. Way better than my faded memory of reading.

"The analogy, moreover, is strengthened on the astrological side by the phenomenon of "astral twins". One such famous case involved an English subject and his king. On June 4, 1738, in the parish of St. Martins-in-the-Fields, two boys were born less than a minute apart. One was William Frederick, later crowned George the III, King of England; the other, James Hemmings, an ironmonger's son. widely separated by class, yet bound to a parallel fate, these two men, each in his own social sphere, lived out the edict of his stars. In October 1760, when George III succeeded his father on the throne, thereby fulfilling the purpose to which he was born, Hemmings took over his father's business. Both men were married on September 8, 1761, fathered the same number of children (even, weirdly, the same number of boys and girls), suffered the same accidents, succumbed to the same diseases, and died within less than an hour of each other on Saturday, January 20, 1820.

Another famous prince-and -pauper story yoked together a chimney sweep with the Prince of Wales (later King George IV). E. Oakes-Smith, in The Shadow Land, or the Seer (1852), wrote:

"Of the career of the Prince of Wales it is unnecessary to speak---his vices, his follies, his perjuries were all royal, and his fellow, the sweep, was not a jot behind him. The broom and scraper were as ill-adapted to the hands of one as the scepter to the hands of the other. The parents of the sweep, tired and ashamed of his profligacy, finally established him as a tallow chandler. On the same date, George IV was put on a royal allowance and both men embarked on separate but similarly notorious careers as gamblers, philanderers and spendthrifts---but on entirely different financial and social levels. the commoner acquired a stable of asses and ran the best donkey races of the day. George IV kept the best blooded ponies and ran the finest horse races in the country. On the day that "Prince George" was kicked in the hip by a donkey, George IV was kicked in the ribs by a horse. Both were injured and incapacitated for the same amount of time. when the Prince of wales lost everything and went bankrupt, so did the commoner "prince". And when all the King's horses were sold by the royal horse seller, the ex-chimney sweep lost his asses under the hammer of the auctioneer.""

Last edited by Opal; 12-10-2019 at 04:39 PM.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 04:38 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Dude, the Sun travels 360 in a year not a day, and Jupiter in 12 years, not 1 year.
Hi petosiris,

I got it backwards. Earth's rotation is 360 degrees per 24 hours, which means Sun moves 1 degree every 4 minutes across Earth, and not through a sign.

Still, Asc moves 1 degree every 4 minutes through a sign.

If a twin is born with Asc at 5 degrees Virgo in the bound of Mercury then the second twin born 20 minutes later will have Asc at 9 degrees Virgo in the bound of Venus.

That is sufficient to explain the differences between twins.

I never said anything about Jupiter, other than Jupiter spends ~1 month in a sign.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi petosiris,

I never said anything about Jupiter, other than Jupiter spends ~1 month in a sign.
Okay, if you say so.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 05:34 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post


Hi petosiris,
If you read Morinus, he touches on that.
I can't remember where I read about it, but

two men were born in London at either identical birth times

or within a minute or two of each other.
One became king of Britain and the other an industrial magnate

that is, the king or captain of his industry.
That's pretty weird, but it also validates astrology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post

I found it. Pages 305 - 306 of The Fated Sky by Benson Bobrick.

Way better than my faded memory of reading.
thanks Opal - good sleuthing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
"The analogy, moreover, is strengthened on the astrological side
by the phenomenon of "astral twins".

One such famous case involved an English subject and his king.
On June 4, 1738, in the parish of St. Martins-in-the-Fields
two boys were born less than a minute apart.
One was William Frederick, later crowned George the III, King of England
the other, James Hemmings, an ironmonger's son.
widely separated by class, yet bound to a parallel fate
these two men, each in his own social sphere
lived out the edict of his stars.

In October 1760, when George III succeeded his father on the throne
thereby fulfilling the purpose to which he was born
Hemmings took over his father's business.
Both men were married on September 8, 1761
fathered the same number of children
(even, weirdly, the same number of boys and girls)
suffered the same accidents
succumbed to the same diseases
and died within less than an hour of each other
on Saturday, January 20, 1820.
Siriusly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post

Another famous prince-and -pauper story
yoked together a chimney sweep with the Prince of Wales (later King George IV).
E. Oakes-Smith, in The Shadow Land, or the Seer (1852), wrote:

"Of the career of the Prince of Wales it is unnecessary to speak
---his vices, his follies, his perjuries were all royal
and his fellow, the sweep, was not a jot behind him.
The broom and scraper were as ill-adapted to the hands of one
as the scepter to the hands of the other
.

The parents of the sweep, tired and ashamed of his profligacy
finally established him as a tallow chandler.
On the same date, George IV was put on a royal allowance
and both men embarked on separate but similarly notorious careers
as gamblers, philanderers and spendthrifts-
--but on entirely different financial and social levels.
the commoner acquired a stable of asses
and ran the best donkey races of the day.
George IV kept the best blooded ponies
and ran the finest horse races in the country.
On the day that "Prince George" was kicked in the hip by a donkey
George IV was kicked in the ribs by a horse.
Both were injured and incapacitated for the same amount of time.
when the Prince of wales lost everything and went bankrupt
so did the commoner "prince".
And when all the King's horses were sold by the royal horse seller
the ex-chimney sweep lost his asses under the hammer of the auctioneer
.""
this is getting Sirius
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Unread 12-10-2019, 05:37 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi petosiris,

I got it backwards. Earth's rotation is 360 degrees per 24 hours, which means Sun moves 1 degree every 4 minutes across Earth, and not through a sign.

Still, Asc moves 1 degree every 4 minutes through a sign.

If a twin is born with Asc at 5 degrees Virgo in the bound of Mercury then the second twin born 20 minutes later will have Asc at 9 degrees Virgo in the bound of Venus.

That is sufficient to explain the differences between twins.

I never said anything about Jupiter, other than Jupiter spends ~1 month in a sign.
I am astonished how much people can study about astrology without calculating five charts.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 05:41 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Jesus, learn the orbits of the planets before teaching us about terms and dodekatemoria.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 05:46 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
That is sufficient to explain the differences between twins.
Oh really? Can you give an actual example for once?
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Unread 12-10-2019, 05:49 PM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

Hi petosiris,
I never said anything about Jupiter, other than Jupiter spends
~1 month in a sign.
Siriusly
in fact you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

Hi petosiris,
It takes Jupiter about a year to traverse the signs,
whereas in fact

Jupiter takes approximately a year to traverse EACH sign
AND NOT 'a year to traverse the signs'
i.e. and I quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post


It takes Jupiter about a year to traverse the signs,
is incorrect
you then continued:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post

so he's in each sign for about a month (more if he's slow or retrograde).
WRONG
Jupiter spends approximately ONE YEAR IN EACH SIGN
fortunately ours is a learning forum
and petosiris has corrected your erroneous information as follows
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Dude, the Sun travels 360 in a year not a day,

and Jupiter in 12 years, not 1 year.


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Unread 12-10-2019, 06:22 PM
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CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Two examples of celebrities born within 2-some days of each other: Charles Darwin (Feb 9, 1809) and Abraham Lincoln (Feb 12, 1809)...and Adolf Hitler (Apr 20, 1889) and Charlie Chaplin (Apr 22, 1889). Their moon signs will be the only thing different, as well as their ascendant signs based on their birth times. A scientist vs a president who liberated a minority group (African-Americans), and an actor vs a leader who persecuted a minority group (European Jews).
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 12-11-2019, 02:43 AM
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Re: Famous people born with very similar placements

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquaPis View Post
Two examples of celebrities born within 2-some days of each other: Charles Darwin (Feb 9, 1809) and Abraham Lincoln (Feb 12, 1809)...and Adolf Hitler (Apr 20, 1889) and Charlie Chaplin (Apr 22, 1889). Their moon signs will be the only thing different, as well as their ascendant signs based on their birth times. A scientist vs a president who liberated a minority group (African-Americans), and an actor vs a leader who persecuted a minority group (European Jews).
Have you done any reading on Charlie? He actually was an amazing man. Known for comedy. He was actually pretty deep.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000122/..._=nm_ov_bio_sm

He even kind of looked like Adolf.

Last edited by Opal; 12-11-2019 at 04:48 AM. Reason: typo
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