Magic 8 ball technique

tikana

Well-known member
I tried it yesterday & it was wrong. I asked "did he get my text this morning?" His 3rd house was Aquarius = Saturn = No. I then texted him again & he said, yes, he got it but was swamped at work.


post the chart
please
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Remember in testing the 8 Ball method the choice of the correct signifying house (and therefore sign on it) is of paramount importance. This, then, can involve particular approaches to horary delineation and house significations, and also remember that (at least in my testing of the 8 Ball) I use whole sign house format: although the ancient Walis used alchabitius, I have no idea whether the 8 Ball would "work" reliably with other quadrant systems such as Placidus or Regiomontanus or Koch.
Perhaps it would with equal house, but, again, MY only interest is to see how well it works IN WHOLE SIGN, because that is the only house format method I use (since 1998)

So, in Moradiva's test case, if "his 3rd house" (which I take would have been the 3rd from the 7th, the 7 representing him/the other person) was Aquarius, then-in whole sign format-"he" would have been (ie the 7th house would have been) under Sagittarius. Some traditionalist horary experts (eg, Mr Zemco) have stated that the 5th house represents "the message", so, in the test chart in whole sign the 5th house would have been under Libra. As Sagicap mentioned, Moradiva's message is "her" (the querent's) message sent TO him, and as Moradiva asked about HER message TO him, many would choose the 3rd house of the chart to signify the querent's message sent to this other person. In that case the 3rd whole sign house of the chart would be under Leo. Notice that-at least in whole sign format-any of these possibilities: "him" (as 7th house ), or the 5th house(the message according to some) or the 3rd house (the querent's message according to others-including myself) are ALL under signs whose rulers indicate a "yes" answer according to the 8 Ball "rules". It would be interest if Moradiva would post the reference chart.

However, please do not get the idea from the above that I am trying to defend or to advocate the 8 Ball; I have not as yet reached final conclusions about the value (or futility) of this form of astro-divination(and remember that I regard it as astro-divination, NOT as horary as that term is generally understood). As I stated in a couple of posts about it, I do not know (or care) about the 8 Ball method's results in quadrant house format charts (like Regio or Placidus), and I do suggest that those testing it use whole sign (or at least the related equal house or the original Walis alchabitius format) in making such tests. Also, in this testing, please realize that THE most important thing is determining the actually-correct significator to be used: in my tests there have been several cases where I could not decide on which significator was the most important: in a couple of those cases (see the "Am I pregnant" thread by isismagdalene for example) I had equally valid reasons to choose one house or another house, each of which gave a different 8 Ball answer (one yes, the other no) In such cases the 8 Ball cannot be validly tested, or, if done so, would give mixed results (50/50), which of course violates the 8 Ball "rules"-at least as I have been testing them.

By the way, thanks to those AW members who-in good spirit-have tried testing this method, and informing me of their results.
 
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Aquarius358

Well-known member
your house is 2nd house because it is property to be sold
4th house ruler is condition of the house

so you look at 1/2 to rule you and the money ... 7/8 to rule the buyer
moon to corule you and the house - ignore this rule if moon rules 7th or 8th house T

Hi Tikana - Can I just correct you on this please? - a home/house is NOT 2nd ruler because the 2nd in traditional horary rules all MOVEABLE objects - ie your boat, your car, your watch, a ring etc.

The 4th always rules houses and homes. The condition of its ruler and any planets in that house do indicate the condition of the house, you're right in that. In questions about selling a property, 10 ruler represents the price - so if you're buying a house you check the strength or otherwise of 10 ruler. It could be too high. If you're selling, the same thing applies and you can tell whether or not you'll get a good price. _____________
 

tikana

Well-known member
Hi Tikana - Can I just correct you on this please? - a home/house is NOT 2nd ruler because the 2nd in traditional horary rules all MOVEABLE objects - ie your boat, your car, your watch, a ring etc.

The 4th always rules houses and homes. The condition of its ruler and any planets in that house do indicate the condition of the house, you're right in that. In questions about selling a property, 10 ruler represents the price - so if you're buying a house you check the strength or otherwise of 10 ruler. It could be too high. If you're selling, the same thing applies and you can tell whether or not you'll get a good price. _____________

Aqua

http://books.google.com/books?id=dC...m=1&ved=0CDgQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=buy&f=false
scroll down to page 143

4th house is quality of house not a house as a moveable object

Tik
 

Aquarius358

Well-known member
Aqua 4th house is quality of house not a house as a moveable object
Tik

Tik, Maybe I wasn't clear enough? - 4 ruler signifies a home/house for sale or being bought. The 2nd House ruler signifies moveable objects like boats, rings, books etc.

You said : "your house is 2nd house because it is property to be sold" ...

... and I wanted to correct this. 2 ruler is not used in horary to signify a house or home at all. 2 ruler only signifies moveable property (like a boat, a car, a wallet, a ring etc). A house or home doesn't fall into that category.

To quote Lilly, CA, p205: "Give the fourth house, the Planet therein placed, and the Moon and Lord of the fourth house to the House, Ground or Manor to be bought or purchased."_ I agree that the quality of 4 ruler will signify the condition of the house (as you said). OK?__________
 

natasa

Well-known member
http://img511.imageshack.us/i/lostfilef.gif/

lostfilef.gif


This is a test chart - known answer

A lost file was found
It was his file - so I gave him the 7th
File is Jupiter = benefic
 

tikana

Well-known member
Tik, Maybe I wasn't clear enough? - 4 ruler signifies a home/house for sale or being bought. The 2nd House ruler signifies moveable objects like boats, rings, books etc.

You said : "your house is 2nd house because it is property to be sold" ...

... and I wanted to correct this. 2 ruler is not used in horary to signify a house or home at all. 2 ruler only signifies moveable property (like a boat, a car, a wallet, a ring etc). A house or home doesn't fall into that category.

To quote Lilly, CA, p205: "Give the fourth house, the Planet therein placed, and the Moon and Lord of the fourth house to the House, Ground or Manor to be bought or purchased."_ I agree that the quality of 4 ruler will signify the condition of the house (as you said). OK?__________

Okay lemme splain .. sorry i am sounding a bit confusing

say you are buying a house ... normally one would ask

Will i buy this house from the seller?
You take your 1st to rule you
take 2nd - money as can you afford it
then take
7 to rule the other party - seller -
8th house for the house - and the money if they wll be willing to do transaction with you

the house condition is 4th house
10th house the value - is the house overpriced?

I take 8th because it is place which 1 wants to get rid of

I actually have 1 house transaction horary - i can post it.. answer is sort of known...

cheers
T
 

Moradiva

Well-known member
Sorry, I can't post the chart. I no longer have it. Ok.. I stand corrected. My 3rd house was the focus & yes, it was Leo, therefore, Sun/Yes was the answer. So,then 8 Ball Method was correct!
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Natasa:
Yes, in my approach I also would have selected his 2nd house (2nd from 7th) as signifying his "movable" property (in this case his file) Thanks for your input!

Moradiva:
Thank you forthe test and for your input!
 

scorpioontherun

Well-known member
arabic part vs house cusp ....
I asked if i will one day marry mr x ... 7th house cusp Taurus, so virgo, so yes.
no nodes in 7th
BUT if I take the arabic part for marriage ASC+7th house cusp-Venus I get Aquarius so Saturn So no ....
Can you assist?
Ah and another question: yhen you get the moon as answer, what should you do ask again at a later time or reformulate? Weirdly enough I tryed the reformulation at another date but I still get the moon. I find this method intriguing ...
Thanks dr farr
Scorpio
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
In the method (at least as I am experimenting with it and testing it) only one house must be selected: when we have very good reasons to select 2 places, as in your example, then if one very good place = a yes and the other very good place (like where the relevant Part/Lot is) = a no, then we cannot use the method. This has occured a few times during my experiments: an excellent example of this is in my delineation of isismagdalene's "Am I pregnant?" question in the medical horary forum, in which the 5th house indicated a "no" and yet the Part of Conception was in Virgo which = a yes. I delineated this chart by primary Ankara horary (with a correct "no" answer) but pointed out that the 8 Ball method could not be of any help, for the reasons mentioned above.
In your specific case, try taking the Part of Marriage of Women (rather than the basic part of marriage) and see where it falls. There are 2 formulas for this Part: if you are a "younger" person use asc+mars-moon; if you are "older" use asc+saturn-venus. Personally I prefer Part of Marriage of Women (where the woman is the querent) to the basic Part of Marriage, when the woman's question has to do with "will I" or "will we" or "when will"....

When Cancer comes up as the signifying sign (and therefore the Moon) it means "maybe"-that means the influences of the Cosmos relatve to the question are evenly balanced, and the matter could go either way. You would wait to re-ask the question in this situation just as long as you would if you had gotten a yes or no response, that is, until the matter of the question played out OR until a reasonable period of time had passed and nothing had occured.
 
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scorpioontherun

Well-known member
Ok I'm 39 ... younger or older? Younger is sagi so yes. Older is Cancer, moon, so I do not know. But at least none is a no .. let's see ... so I have one yes (house cusp) another yes (if 39 is considered young) and a maybe (if 39 is as I fear considered no longer "young").
I want to ask also will D (my closest and dearest friend who is about to relocate) be happy in Rome? Which house? 11th?
Thanks for your time
Scorp
Ah and for chosing the place I tend to use the arabic part when, as it happened several times, the relevant house cusp is at very early (less than 1) or very late degrees (28) of a sign. In this case I disregard the house completely (unless it's between capricorn and aquarius .. since in that case the house cusp would not matter, it will still be a no) and I go for the lot .. what do you think?
 
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scorpioontherun

Well-known member
here's an exemple of what I am talking about .. super late degrees IMO not sure enough so I took the lot for "older" women ... Taurus, yes.
The 7th house cusp and the 9th house cusp (if we can take the 9th house for a second wedding) are "in between"
What do you say?
 

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zoidsoft

Well-known member
answer is a NO! because mars / venus do not perfect a sextile in their current signs. moos is in 5th house shows romance but it is not deep committed relationship.

The Moon is also the exaltation lord of the 7th, but Venus can see Taurus, but the Moon is in aversion, so Venus speaks more clearly about the subject matter. The Moon and Mars complete a square which would tend to say no when both planets are not of essential dignity.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
In the posted chart, using the 7th house, under Pisces = Jupiter, by the 8 Ball the answer is "yes"; I personally don't care about late or early ascendants when I use an astro-divination method (like the 8 Ball or simple Lunar divination) although for the more exacting HORARY analysis, for me 29 would be too late of an ascendant. However, if one did have scruples relative to late or early degree then, yes, using a Part rather than the house would be quite legitimate (as the Walis, who invented the 8 Ball method, made extensive use of the various Parts) In your example reference chart, from my perspective you have 2 "yes" answers: both the 7th and the Part of Marriage of Women, fall in signs whose rulers give a yes answer by the 8 Ball "rules".
(Risking much criticism, I would allocate 39 years of age-in a man or a woman-to the "older" Part of Marriage of Women formula; "younger" for me at least, would be under 30 years of age)

Relative to the happiness of your friend, standard horary would indicate the 11th house as significator; however, I have long followed Al-Biruni, Ibn Ezra and other pre-13th century sources, and use the 7th house for "others", including friends, enemies, and so on, when the "other" is intended to be the object of the inquiry: so, for me at least, I would use the 7th as significator of your friend (again, please note that standard horary would give your friend to the 11th house)
 

tikana

Well-known member
The Moon is also the exaltation lord of the 7th, but Venus can see Taurus, but the Moon is in aversion, so Venus speaks more clearly about the subject matter. The Moon and Mars complete a square which would tend to say no when both planets are not of essential dignity.


Zoidsoft

True.. also take into consideration that regardless how you look at the chart as long as you use logic and traditional "rule book", you should be able to get the same answer

so either way .. it is a right answer what we gave the querent


Best of Luck
T
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
TEST CHART

WILL I GET MARRIED THIS YEAR (2009). THE ANSWER IS OF COURSE NO

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8298/willigmthisyear.gif

willigmthisyear.gif


Mars ruling the 1st - NO
Saturn ruling the 3rd of contracts - NO



In this test chart, we find a problem with testing the 8 Ball which I have mentioned several times in various posts: and that has to do with choosing exactly what the quesited significator will be:
In this example chart marriage = 7th (whole sign) house which is under Taurus which = Venus, which yields an (incorrect) "yes" answer by the 8 Ball rules.
However, the Lot of Marriage (asc+cusp of 7th-venus) could arguably be a more specific and appropriate significator of the quesited in this specific question. This Lot falls @ 2 Capricorn which = Saturn which = a correct "no" answer by the 8 Ball rules.
So which is accurate: the 7th as significator or the Lot of Marriage as significator? Answer is that BOTH are very strong possible quesited significators.
Whenever you have 2 strong significators of the quesited, and they give opposite answers, the 8 Ball method CANNOT be used. This is a limitation to the experimental 8 Ball method, at least as I am currently testing it here on AW.
 
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virgo18

Well-known member
Sorry, Let me verify if I understand.
If you make a question about a relationship: eg. "Does (?) loves me?"

-You got Gemini in the ascendant (querent) "Mercury" (+)
-Sagittarius is in the descendant (quested) "Jupiter"(+)
-The North node is in the 7th house..., so the Dragon's tail falls in the 1st of the querent. (-)
-Jupiter, Moon and Mercury are in the 11th of the querent, that will be the 5th of the quested. (?)
-Jupiter is in Aries and it is not aspecting Mercury in Pisces which is debilitated (-)
-Moon "the ruler of the question" is also in aries and Conjunct Jupiter. The moon is not Voc (+)
-Mercury is in the Jupiter's Sign... So that will be positive?

So the answer will be "No" only because the South Node is in the 1st, and the querent's ruler is debilitated.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Virgo18:

While your outline reminds me a lot of how I proceed in Primary Ankara horary, this is NOT how one would use the Magic 8 Ball method.

a) regarding the South Node in the ascending sign, I follow the old stricture of not attempting to judge any horary chart or astro-divination chart (like with the 8 Ball method) if I find the SN there (because it tends to render the interpretation of the chart unreliable) So in such cases I would not apply the 8 Ball technique to the chart at all, and would say: re-ask the same question again later

b) now for working the 8 Ball method:
-one ONLY factor counts: the planetary ruler of the SIGN on the QUESITED house
-nothing else is considered: not planet placements, aspects, ascendant, other houses, NOTHING BUT THE SIGN ON THE QUESITED HOUSE
-so the ONLY consideration you have is to determine which HOUSE is the quesited house
-once you have determined the quesited house, what sign is on it (on the cusp)?
-if the SIGN on the quesited house is ruled by Sun, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, the answer to the question is YES
-if the SIGN on the quesited house is ruled by Mars or Saturn the answer to the question is NO
-if the SIGN on the quesited house happens to posit the South Node, then no matter what planet rules that sign the answer to the question is NO
-if the SIGN on the quesited house is Cancer (= the Moon) then the answer to the question is MAYBE (a "too-up", 50/50, etc)
-the place or condition or dignity or aspects of the planet ruling that sign DO NOT MATTER and ARE NOT taken into consideration at all in the 8 Ball method.

Example:
1st, in the reference chart you posted the South Node is in the ascending sign, therefore (by the rules I follow) this chart is unreliable for horary delineation by ANY
method, including the Magic 8 Ball. That is NOT a "no" answer-it is a "re-ask again later" answer.

But for illustration sake let's say that the South Node were not in the ascending sign of the reference chart, and the 8 Ball divination question was "is X romantically interested in me?"
-find the quesited house: in my opinion this would be the 5th house from the 7th (7th = "him", and his romantic interests are the 5th house from "him")
-the sign on the 5th from the 7th house in this chart is Aries
-Aries therefore is the sign on the quesited house of this chart
-Aries is ruled by Mars
-therefore-by the 8 Ball "rules"-since the quesited house signifying his romantic interests is under Aries, which is ruled by Mars, the Magic 8 Ball answer to this question would be "no"
-suppose instead, say the 5th from the 7th would have been Pisces: Pisces is ruled by Jupiter, therefore the answer to the question would have been "yes"; suppose the 5th from the 7th had been Cancer: Cancer is ruled by the Moon, therefore the answer to the question would have been "maybe"; again suppose that Gemini had been the 5th from the 7th: normally, since Mercury rules Gemini, then that would have been a "yes" answer-however, Gemini currently posits the South Node, so if Gemini had been the 5th from the 7th, then by this rule the answer to the question would have been "no"...

Hope this helps to make the Magic 8 Ball divination method clear!
 
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Sun Scor Moon Aqu Asc Vir

Well-known member
Hi Guys ...

I was unsure which house to assign here so opted for 6th Sag (small animals) which is ruled by :jupiter: .... and therefore a Yes in whole house but 6th is Cap in regio ruled by :saturn:and therefore a No :unsure:

Interestingly :saturn: rules Fish Ponds and the Treatment in question was applied to Fish ...

The question is about a medicament :unsure: and 6th is house of health but is it apt for medicines too ?

httw.gif



Does the chart confirm a Yes in delineating it in the general Horary manner ?

A friend has just treated his fish pond in a bid to rid them of several parasites ... but it was I who asked the question ...


astro_2gw_92_has_the_treament_worked_hr7408727667.gif

Hi Guys ...

Long time no visit sorry :love: extremely busy recently ...

This is interesting and indeed Apt and why I have Quoted my previous post !


The part of medicine (which I have forgotten the Formula for :annoyed: please post it if you know what it is ) initially gave a NO answer despite 6th house Sag giving a YES :sideways:
This was my fault due to not assigning a "Derived" house ..

The Friend has since applied a second treatment as a follow up precaution without ascertaining microscopically whether the Original had worked :rolleyes:

So I asked again "Has the follow up treatment worked" ? which produced the same SIGN /HOUSE line up :surprised:

My Friend 7th house :capricornimg:L :saturn:derived 6th from 7th :geminiimg: L :mercury:would as previously have given a YES answer were the :southnode:not posited therein :surprised: amazingly in both charts !

didthefollowuptreatmentwork.gif
 
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