Solar/Lunar Eclipses falling on house cusps

Thoughts on New Beginnings verses endings in relationship to these Eclipses?

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In addition, say a Lunar Eclipse is aspecting a planet by Sextile/Trine, would it still cause "an ending"

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Also, in regards to Lunar/Solar Eclipses falling on house cusps or within a few degrees of the next house cusp: What house do you consider the eclipse to be located in? I know if one is using Whole or Equal House the answer would be clear, however I prefer Placidus which makes it a little more complicated especially when most houses contain at the very least a few degrees of the next sign. I keep going back and forth between whatever house it falls in is the house it's affecting however I am beginning to think both houses would be affected. Anyone have information they could share or personal thoughts or experiences about this?

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Finally, if the SE/LE do not connect with a natal planet is it still felt in the house it's Eclipsing or does it become inactive?

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Vista said:

I wasn't sure if this should be in predictive astrology or considered "other cosmic objects."

I am curious about Solar and Lunar Eclipses: I know Lunar is more about endings and a Solar Eclipse is more about New Beginnings. Thoughts on New Beginnings verses endings in relationship to these Eclipses? In addition, say a Lunar Eclipse is aspecting a planet by Sextile/Trine, would it still cause "an ending" or is that more to do with challenging aspects?

Also, in regards to Lunar/Solar Eclipses falling on house cusps or within a few degrees of the next house cusp: What house do you consider the eclipse to be located in? I know if one is using Whole or Equal House the answer would be clear, however I prefer Placidus which makes it a little more complicated especially when most houses contain at the very least a few degrees of the next sign. I keep going back and forth between whatever house it falls in is the house it's affecting however I am beginning to think both houses would be affected. Anyone have information they could share or personal thoughts or experiences about this?

Finally, if the SE/LE do not connect with a natal planet is it still felt in the house it's Eclipsing or does it become inactive?

Thank you!!

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Ancient astrologers used Whole Sign for Topical delineation and Quadrant based for strength assessment

and so the solution is to USE BOTH whole sign AND Placidus

Whole Signs clearly indicates the Topic

AND

Placidus clearly shows PLANETARY STRENGTH

'…. In no other area of astrology is there so much mess/confusion than in the area of the so-called "houses". There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity - houses, mansions, or domains, are supposed to represent general areas of life activity, the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets. Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable or meant the same thing. A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries, so there were no real houses as we know them today.....'


'….Artificial divisions now known as 'houses' were attempts by early Greeks/Hindus to measure strength "points" in horoscope, which during 7th /8th centuries AD were construed/confused as a means of dividing birth chart. Ascendant/Descendant/Midheaven/IC degrees were definite power points/areas of intense focus, BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE BEGINNINGS OF A HOUSE OR QUADRANT. There is no real basis for astrological houses – they derive from misunderstanding nature of Ascendant/Midheaven factors, Ascendant representing Earth/terrestrial sphere, Midheaven representing Sky/Heaven/celestial sphere. If any house system should be used at all, it's Whole Sign Houses, where Ascendant sign becomes the whole first house and the others follow....'


'...Ascendant point can then fall anywhere in first house and Midheaven point anywhere in the upper half of the chart. The Whole Sign House system was used by the ancient Greeks and the Hindus(who still use it today). It is the oldest and simplest house system in existence, and immediately eliminates the awful mess astrologers have made on the issue over the last 1300 years or so....'

dr. farr said:

Cusps:

Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),
but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";
now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie, the "border" between one house and the other.
And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications
(Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this:

in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all,
and never were so regarded!
In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning,
not as a "border"
but rather as A POINT
-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house,
viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house-that is the "cusp" of each house-
is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something) For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign-it worked better (FOR ME) I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago: only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predictions) better than what I have previously been doing?
Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners-to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...

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The_Saturnian said:

According to a book "Predictive Power of Eclipse Paths" by Bill Meridian:

QUOTE

“Eclipse paths are an astrological technique that can pin point important areas on the surface of the earth for you individually. When you were born there had to be an eclipse near your birth. By a method developed in the 1930's by Lorne Edward Johndhro of California, which he later passed on to Charles A Jayne Junior of New York, we can determine which eclipse is your eclipse path.

This could be an area that could be very important to you during your life, whether you go there or not. People from that area, ideas from that area, products from that area, can be very important to you. If you are like me, you wind up living right under your eclipse path!” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t4FQ...eature=related


the video link homes in on mundane matters illustrated in the book

The natal part of the book explains that the "birth eclipse" is the eclipse nearest to birth, before or after - usually a solar eclipse, but is sometimes lunar.


Bill Meridan's book explains that Eclipses on the same area can be studied as eclipse families.

An eclipse can link two places together.

There are eclipses that activate other eclipses, from decades earlier.

Events that happen on or around an eclipse can have fateful outcomes when activated by later eclipses

Every 18 years or so, eclipses repeat, which can have significant impact.

All of which is to say that a solar eclipse remains a sensitive point for years, decades, even centuries.

Far longer than anyone had previously thought.


"This book will revolutionize the study of eclipses" Cycles Research. http://www.billmeridian.com/ppoep.html

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The_Saturnian said:

I'm too sure, but I think that it would be difficult to pinpoint key events that occurred associated with either types of eclipses because the event could occur up to 6 months after the event in the case of a Lunar eclipse, and up to 2 years after a Solar eclipse.



I would say that it would be a pleasant ending (in general). The positive aspects would probably allow a smooth and gradual ending to things. If a natural malefic like Saturn or Mars was involved things may not necessarily be favourable. but a smooth ending could be achieved either way. In other words "all's well that ends well."




I have zero experience here, but the way I would go about collating information is to obtain a few samples from friends/clients and ask them about 6 months later as to what area the Lunar eclipse affected them. By doing this, we can decipher which side of the cusp it seems to affect individuals and draw a line as to what orb allowances should be made.



I think it would affect the house and it's ruler wherever it may be. Additionally it may be useful to establish if there is/are any midpoints on and around the degree the eclipse occurs. Those planets associated with the midpoints (either progressed or natal types) could definitely be affected.

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JUPITERASC said:

Ancient astrologers used Whole Sign for Topical delineation and Quadrant based for strength assessment

and so the solution is to USE BOTH whole sign AND Placidus

Whole Signs clearly indicates the Topic

AND

Placidus clearly shows PLANETARY STRENGTH

'…. In no other area of astrology is there so much mess/confusion than in the area of the so-called "houses". There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity - houses, mansions, or domains, are supposed to represent general areas of life activity, the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets. Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable or meant the same thing. A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries, so there were no real houses as we know them today.....'


'….Artificial divisions now known as 'houses' were attempts by early Greeks/Hindus to measure strength "points" in horoscope, which during 7th /8th centuries AD were construed/confused as a means of dividing birth chart. Ascendant/Descendant/Midheaven/IC degrees were definite power points/areas of intense focus, BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE BEGINNINGS OF A HOUSE OR QUADRANT. There is no real basis for astrological houses – they derive from misunderstanding nature of Ascendant/Midheaven factors, Ascendant representing Earth/terrestrial sphere, Midheaven representing Sky/Heaven/celestial sphere. If any house system should be used at all, it's Whole Sign Houses, where Ascendant sign becomes the whole first house and the others follow....'


'...Ascendant point can then fall anywhere in first house and Midheaven point anywhere in the upper half of the chart. The Whole Sign House system was used by the ancient Greeks and the Hindus(who still use it today). It is the oldest and simplest house system in existence, and immediately eliminates the awful mess astrologers have made on the issue over the last 1300 years or so....' http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html

byjove's thread WHOLE SIGNS TODAY http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42163

dr, farr also posted a detailed explanation of the way Whole Sign houses are INTENDED to be understood

dr. farr has highlighted that the MEANING OF THE WORD 'CUSP' has changed.

Whole Sign has BORDERS AS WELL AS CUSPS

Whole Sign BORDER is the final degree of a sign.

WHOLE SIGN CUSPS ARE THE SENSITIVE POINTS IN EACH HOUSE THAT ARE AT THE SAME DEGREE AS Ascendant/Descendant/MC/IC degrees

- dr. farr explained in detail

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Vista said:

What do you both think about Solar Eclipse at 11 Scorpio conjuncting natal Descendant(1 degree orb), natal Saturn(within 3 degrees) while at the same time Transiting Saturn is conjunct natal Descendant(2 degree orb)?? This isn't my chart but a friends. This has to be something significant I would think???

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Transiting Saturn within 3 degrees orb of Natal Saturn is a description of a Saturn Return
which is significant with or without an added eclipse factor

Regarding the eclipse factor, then for clues recall events on or about the 3rd November 1994 - that's the previous solar eclipse on that degree.

JUPITERASC said:

Transiting Saturn within 3 degrees orb of Natal Saturn is a description of a Saturn Return
which is significant with or without an added eclipse factor

Regarding the eclipse factor, then for clues recall events on or about the 3rd November 1994 - that's the previous solar eclipse on that degree.

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The_Saturnian,

Thank you kindly for the detailed reply! Interestingly what you said about Solar and Lunar Eclipse affecting 6 months and 2 years respectively. Some astrologers believe the eclipse will last until the next one....I am leaning towards that mindset although open to other theories. In the past year I have gotten into the effect of Lunar and Solar Eclipses and using this past year as an example given we have had 4 Eclipses so far, they really seemed to "play out" in my life very close to the date of each eclipse. This is not to say I wouldn't rule out it's long-term effect, just what I felt at the time. This next Eclipse will be a doozy for me.....it is in my 7th house but close to the 8th house cusp. It will conjunct Neptune(4 degrees), square Saturn but at the same time activate my natal Kite with Moon, Jupiter, Neptune, and Pluto. I wonder what is in store? Carol Rushman says an Eclipse will activate natal and progressed configuarions(my natal kite fro example), it will also activate my natal Saturn square Neptune configuration. She also says, "when you get something good from an eclipse there is always a price to be paid." Interesting!! The other thing I read, "With a New Moon on Jupiter, you always get something you wish for." Be careful what you ask for!! Mine isn't conjunct but it's trine so maybe some good luck coming my way.....

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Vista said:

Ah, yes, going back 19 years is a good idea. Yes, his Saturn return has begun, I think it was either his first or second transit from T Sat to N Saturn this past summer. His N Saturn is on the cusp of his DESC coming from him 6th house(Placidus), he injured his knee this summer and had to have surgery! That's about as cookbook as you can get in terms of Saturn.

Thank you!

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Time between eclipses can vary dependent on which series the eclipse forms a part of