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  #26  
Unread 12-14-2019, 09:05 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Questioning validity of astrology after learning that western sign were incorrect

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Pingree's theory is actually a controversial one. I remember Ben Dykes taking Pingree to task over taking too many liberties in that regard (I can't remember in which book, but I'll find it if you need it).

As you say, the two traditions are very close and if Hellenistic astrology would be far more complex and sophisticated than Indian astrology then Pingree would have a point. In actuality, however, it's the other way around. That's why I never paid much attention to the linguistic argument, even though it is undeniable. Personally, I don't really care who gave who what first. That's something to quibble over for historians and scholars, not astrologers. What I can say though is that much can be gained from studying vedic astrology if you are a traditional western astrologer and studying traditional western astrology if you are a vedic astrologer. It helps putting things into perspective.
It is controversial in circles who believe their horoscopic astrology is 5000 years old, not in scholarly circles. There are loaned words in Indian astrology from Greek (which have no meaning in Sanskrit), but not the other way around. As for complexity and sophistication, I would have studied Indian instead of Hellenistic, unless you meant an amassing of many contradictory methods and traditions, which ancient method has mostly been lost in the latter tradition (Ptolemy and Valens talk about this being the case with the ''Old Astrologers''). But we have methods for pretty much everything in life in Western astrology, we don't need an impractical and unnatural complexity involving divisions and combination of everything one can possible come up with astronomically, or do we? Nature is pleased with simplicity.


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  #27  
Unread 12-14-2019, 01:40 PM
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Re: Questioning validity of astrology after learning that western sign were incorrect

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Comparing these various systems is an incredible complex and time consuming endeavor. In order to compare the validity of these various systems, you first need to study them thoroughly, all of them. Over the past decade, on these forums, I've come across maybe 2-3 people who have actually done that. So I think it's important to distinguish between fact and fiction, mere opinion and actual knowledge here. Mostly I see people just voicing opinions based on personal preferences. That doesn't really cut the mustard, IMO.
Yes, it is a very complex system. And it is unlikely you will ever meet anyone that has studied all of them in depth. People usually specialize their interests and methodologies. They use what works for them.

I have two places where I like how the charts appear. That is just a visual interpretation choice. There are so many choices of what to use, I have chosen what I prefer, and that changes with my changing perspectives.

I do not choose to pick for others what is fact or fiction. That is a personal choice to be decided by every individual. Forums are full of the opinionated. I prefer to talk with those that don't know it all, as in my opinion, I will never in this lifetime achieve knowing it all.

The question is about the validity of, being questioned because of different methodologies. I have seen people that are very adept in what they chose to specialize in. I have also seen that most do not choose to learn anything here. But, that is their choice.
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  #28  
Unread 12-14-2019, 07:25 PM
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Re: Questioning validity of astrology after learning that western sign were incorrect

Pingree made a convincing case for the transfer of horoscopic astrology to India. However, there was an important exception: lunar mansions (nakshatras,) which pre-date the diffusion of western astrology to India.
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  #29  
Unread 12-29-2019, 11:27 PM
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Re: Questioning validity of astrology after learning that western sign were incorrect

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
It is controversial in circles who believe their horoscopic astrology is 5000 years old, not in scholarly circles. There are loaned words in Indian astrology from Greek (which have no meaning in Sanskrit), but not the other way around. As for complexity and sophistication, I would have studied Indian instead of Hellenistic, unless you meant an amassing of many contradictory methods and traditions, which ancient method has mostly been lost in the latter tradition (Ptolemy and Valens talk about this being the case with the ''Old Astrologers''). But we have methods for pretty much everything in life in Western astrology, we don't need an impractical and unnatural complexity involving divisions and combination of everything one can possible come up with astronomically, or do we? Nature is pleased with simplicity.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever heard of someone switching from vedic to western because western is the superior system? I haven't. It's usually the other way around.
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  #30  
Unread 12-29-2019, 11:38 PM
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Re: Questioning validity of astrology after learning that western sign were incorrect

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Just out of curiosity, have you ever heard of someone switching from vedic to western because western is the superior system? I haven't. It's usually the other way around.
I asked you to show me your superiority in theory and practice not in popularity.

I don't know people who were really into traditional who have switched to vedic, though I don't know many astrologers personally and in general.

A lot of modern astrologers might be keen on Indian astrology, because the spirit of eastern philosophy and the new age has become more prevalent in western society. In fact, I don't know a person who does Indian astrology who has anything, but that unique non-western and non-monotheistic worldview. Have you taken that into consideration?

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