Empty House Ruler Condition and its influence

I was just thinking about the 'empty' houses in charts. I get that the ruler of the house is what you look towards for better understanding of what's going on in that house.

What I am curious about though is this; if you have an empty house containing the sign of Virgo (for instance), and you look at Mercury but there is really nothing going on with Mercury aspect wise, would you then look at the dignity and be able to make a determination about the empty house based on this? Let's say that Mercury is in Leo at 8 degrees and thus has dignity by term only, could we then consider the house that Virgo rules a weak house? What more could we learn about the empty house?

Thanks for any insight!

Munch said:

I was just thinking about the 'empty' houses in charts. I get that the ruler of the house is what you look towards for better understanding of what's going on in that house.

What I am curious about though is this; if you have an empty house containing the sign of Virgo (for instance), and you look at Mercury but there is really nothing going on with Mercury aspect wise, would you then look at the dignity and be able to make a determination about the empty house based on this?

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Here's a few other things to consider;

Is Mercury combust, or retrograde? Is it in a strong angular house, or weak in a cadent house? Is it rising, culminating, setting or under the earth? Travelling before or behind the sun?

I'm sure there's bunches of others I'm neglecting to mention. Someone will fill us in I hope.

The Indians have a highly complex system called Shadbala, which assesses a number of different considerations. It's worth reading up on. You can use the whole system, or use it in part. I often assess directional strength by eye, as it's pretty easy to see at a glance.

In Indian astrology, planets don't just aspect other planets. They consider planets to aspect the signs/houses too. Their aspect rules are quite different to those used in western astrology.

Let's say that Mercury is in Leo at 8 degrees and thus has dignity by term only, could we then consider the house that Virgo rules a weak house? What more could we learn about the empty house?

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Term is a weak dignity in comparison to domicile or exaltation, but it's better than face, and it could be a lot worse, it could be peregrine or in detriment or fallen. I would consider it to be 'better than average'.

Moog said:

Here's a few other things to consider;

Is Mercury combust, or retrograde? Is it in a strong angular house, or weak in a cadent house? Is it rising, culminating, setting or under the earth? Travelling before or behind the sun?

I'm sure there's bunches of others I'm neglecting to mention. Someone will fill us in I hope.

The Indians have a highly complex system called Shadbala, which assesses a number of different considerations. It's worth reading up on. You can use the whole system, or use it in part. I often assess directional strength by eye, as it's pretty easy to see at a glance.

In Indian astrology, planets don't just aspect other planets. They consider planets to aspect the signs/houses too. Their aspect rules are quite different to those used in western astrology.

Term is a weak dignity in comparison to domicile or exaltation, but it's better than face, and it could be a lot worse, it could be peregrine or in detriment or fallen. I would consider it to be 'better than average'.

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Thank you! This is exactly what I was asking. I'm not really into vedic astrology (my apologies if I am mixing up two different things here!), but I'll take a look at the Shadbala system. Thanks again!

Also don't overlook dodekatemorion: the "shadow" or ramification of a given planet might fall in that empty house, and if so, then (according to the Greco/Romans) you would delineate it exactly as if it were actually posited there in that sign/house!

Hey Doc! Thank you for your added information. However, after doing some cursory searches, I've not been able to figure out exactly how these shadow influences work. Could you break it down into easier to chew ideas? Thanks!

Sure, and its easy to do:
For example:

-say in a given chart
a) Mercury is in the 10th house @ 4 degrees Pisces
b) the 11th house of that chart, under Aries, is empty (no planets posited in it)

Using the method of Pauline dodekatemorion, to find the shadow or ramification (dodek) of Mercury we multiply Mercury's degrees (4 degrees) by 13; this gives us 52; now we subtract 30 degrees (for the sign Mercury is in) and that leaves us 22 left over: therefore the dodek of Mercury falls at 22 degrees of the next sign, in this case, Mercury dodek is @ 22 Aries.

Now, in our example, Aries is the 11th house, which, prior to our dodek investigation, was an empty house: since the dodek of Mercury is @ 22 Aries, it means the dodek of Mercury is in the 11th house.

What do we do with it? We delineate exactly as if Mercury WERE IN FACT IN THIS 11TH HOUSE: we would ADD this delineation of the dodek of Mercury to the delineation we already made of Mercury being (physically) in the original 10th house (under Pisces) to come up with the over-all Mercury situation (ie, the actual place of Mercury in Pisces in the 10th house PLUS the dodek place of Mercury in Aries in the 11th house)

In making a delineation of the 11th house (its influences, etc), finding the dodek of Mercury in that house, we would proceed with the 11th house delineation INCLUDING Mercury as ACTUALLY being in it (so we would no longer have an empty 11th house)

...that's how the Greco/Romans used dodekatemorion in delineation (the method became forgotten as early as the late 8th century, in the early Islamic transitional era; the method was never followed thereafter, nor do we find it in Vedic astrology; it was a unique Hellenist method)

The latest version of the free to download software Morinus calculates Dodecatemoria, though not Pauline style.

dr. farr said:

nor do we find it in Vedic astrology; it was a unique Hellenist method

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They do use the Dwadashama (D12) chart, though it seems to be in a different capacity.

Munch said:

I was just thinking about the 'empty' houses in charts. I get that the ruler of the house is what you look towards for better understanding of what's going on in that house.

What I am curious about though is this; if you have an empty house containing the sign of Virgo (for instance), and you look at Mercury but there is really nothing going on with Mercury aspect wise, would you then look at the dignity and be able to make a determination about the empty house based on this? Let's say that Mercury is in Leo at 8 degrees and thus has dignity by term only, could we then consider the house that Virgo rules a weak house? What more could we learn about the empty house?

Thanks for any insight!

Click to expand...

An empty house is just that we are not focussing on its issues this time around. Not so important. Maybe have that all down pat. We cant deal with all 12 houses in one lifetime and if Mercury is unaspected then it just expresses in the house it is in and the sign. I dont think Mercury is true ruler of Virgo anyway but that is another story.

dr. farr said:

Also don't overlook dodekatemorion: the "shadow" or ramification of a given planet might fall in that empty house, and if so, then (according to the Greco/Romans) you would delineate it exactly as if it were actually posited there in that sign/house!

Click to expand...

I dont agree with this hypothesis. A shadow of a planet whatever that means is not the same as the actual planetary body being in a house.
It is like saying our shadow that is cast is our physical self.
[deleted attacking comment by request - Moderator]

Claire19 said:

I dont agree with this hypothesis. A shadow of a planet whatever that means is not the same as the actual planetary body being in a house.
It is like saying our shadow that is cast is our physical self. [deleted attacking comment by request - Moderator]

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Claire19, IMO the “reality” is that our physical selves are indeed a form of “shadow" because our lives are transient and all too soon our transient individual 'I' and/or 'Me' in the form of a particular physical body is gone

As for “a house”.... is that “real” in the same sense that a planetary body is physically “real”?

Some astrologers have completely dispensed with houses and no longer use them for delineation.

QUOTE

Prospero:
"Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd tow'rs, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.

Source: The Tempest Act 4, scene 1, 148–158 Billy Shakespeare

The dodek technique apparently was too wild for later astrology, since it fell into oblivion after the end of the Classical era (around the 8th century AD), just as the once-universal whole sign house format did around that same time.
But, I like wild things-especially when their application produces such reliable and excellent delineative and analytical results!
Possibly yet another nickname for me?? "Wild Man Farr"!!