What does Pluto do?

Mandy

Well-known member
There has been some controversy regarding the role of Pluto in astrology. I invite anyone who uses Pluto in readings to discuss their experience. Some of my questions (not exhaustive) are:

* What is expected from a Pluto transit? What is the purpose of a Pluto transit? How to maximise the positive outcome of a Pluto transit?

* How does Plutonic influence differ in effect from the influence of Saturn, for example?

* Do people with very Scorpionic charts experience Pluto transits with less drama?
 

knowhow999

Well-known member
The Lord of Transformation has been a powerful force in my life. Pluto has swept away so many of my immature religious beliefs. It was initially terrifying but what was left in its wake has been a tremendous blessings.
I enjoy this website as a result of Pluto's impact on my ninth house.:biggrin:

Blessings
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I too accept the transformational influence of Pluto: this influence can be either constructive or disruptive, and often one and then the other! This will depend upon the totality of influences operative at the time and under the circumstances of the specific chart.
 

poyi

Premium Member
* What is expected from a Pluto transit? What is the purpose of a Pluto transit? How to maximise the positive outcome of a Pluto transit?

When Pluto makes tight aspect to your natal planet, I will read that as transformation from the old and rebirth of the new. Pluto rules drainage system, garbage, all kind of eliminations; it rules our excretory system...

"Whenever there is violent eruption or release of bowel contents (e.g. spluttering diarrhea, severe colitis, bleeding colitis, severe gastroenteritis), or skin toxicity being released (e.g. painful pustular eruptions such as pemphigoid) then consider the influence of Pluto."

http://www.shamanic-homoeopathy.com/content/planets-medical-astrology-pluto

The nature of the experience is often extremely unpleasant thought about Diarrhea (painful, torture, up and down at night, unable to eat, smelly, embarrassing, not something that you can easily share and talk about, can't really fully describe how stressful it was) but it is necessary for the body to excrete the toxins and infection that is part of the healing process by removing the rubbish by Force, and it is the First process of successful healing from the root of the problems. It is a Force that you don't have much choice to reject. It just comes...like diarrhea. :pinched:

To my understand, just let it be, drink plenty of water and keep your electrolyte in balance until it subsided itself. Taking anti diarrhea medication will only prolong the suffering and the toxin will build up and you can die from systemic septicemia due to your rejection of letting go and refused to go through the pain in the a**.

But you could also die from electrolyte imbalanced (insufficient or overabundant, Pluto the planet of extreme) due to failure to replace your lost electrolytes and dehydration can go into systemic shock as well.

When I mean drinking plenty of water, you could relate as how nourishing, and cleansing the water does in our body. So I guess you should always keep your Moon in check, your emotions. In regard to electrolytes, during active diarrhea, the most commonly lost electrolytes are traces of element of each planet. For example Moon also rules sodium in our body. I don't go into details of which planet rules which electrolyte here. I am too lazy for that.:happy:

The funny thing about this example as Diarrhea vs Pluto. Is either way you are going to die somehow if you refused to cooperate with Pluto. If you know about how painful Chemotherapy is that also very similar to Pluto's behaviours.

* How does Plutonic influence differ in effect from the influence of Saturn, for example?

I think Saturn would be more like a final year exam. If you haven't been studying, you can only say Cra*! And face the judgement of your long term laziness. While Pluto is dramatic change that not always about what you had done or not done. It is more like a chance of and trials from the external force. Not really because what you had or not done.

* Do people with very Scorpionic charts experience Pluto transits with less drama?

Not sure about this bit. But I have Pluto just returned to Scorpio on the day I was born. At 0 11" in Scorpio in my 2nd house, it rules my 3rd house Scorpio Sun and Mercury also Saturn in 2nd house. I can only say, I might be more used to it's drama. :biggrin:
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Much as did Modernist pioneer Charles Carter, I consider Pluto influences to be similar to those of Mars combined with Saturn and with the Sun (to a certain extent),
Both Saturn and Pluto have affinity to deep, hidden things: but Saturn tends to keep these things deep, hidden, keeps them restricted under the surface: Pluto, however, tends to raise these things up, to bring these things to the surface, to "erupt" the hidden and the unexpected and unanticipated right up and out into the open (often with intense or explosive influences, in this intensity being similar to Uranus): once above the surface, these once-deeply hidden (or obscured) things (influences, etc) usually have such an impact as to cause significant, even major transformations. Similarly, in bringing up the hidden (rather than keeping the hidden buried, as Saturn tends to) atavism (regression to a less developed, less advanced state or expression of life or behavior) can be an effect (albeit a very disruptive one) of the Pluto influence: we see this (as I shall later show) in the prominence of Pluto in several mundane disaster charts, such as the monstrous Rape of Nanking (late 1930's) in which 300,000 people were murdered in a barbaric fashion, over a 6 week period (not to mention what happened to at least 30000 girls and female children, during that same period of time) In this chart Pluto was atmakaraka (most symbolically significant planet in a chart, as per Vedic astrological technique), and had several important connections in that chart: here was a case of extreme atavism, where the soldiers involved reverted (during those weeks) to essentially a pre-civilization barbarity. So Pluto can be transformational in bringing the deeply hidden/buried up to the surface, or it can cause atavistic surges of a highly disruptive nature. Saturn never brings up the unexpected or the atavistic-it either keeps things buried, or supports the status quo and is antithetical to change, especially so to transformational changes, so Pluto is very different from Saturn in this regard.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Keeping in mind the Pluto affinity with bringing the deeply hidden, buried, to the surface (often explosively so), and with tranformative influences/effects, and also with atavistic recrudescence, here are 11 examples of significant Pluto connections in mundane disaster charts (the following is only a small number of such mundane charts illustrating important Pluto connections-many more such charts could be cited: significant Pluto connections in the first man-made atomic chain reaction chart, and in the "natal chart" of the nuclear weapons era, ie the Hiroshima atomic bomb attack, will be the subject of future postings)

RAPE OF NANKING (mentioned in my earlier posting)
December 13, 1937, Nanking, China: 5 PM (time of the officially ordered start of the systematic murders and rapes)
-Pluto atmakaraka (mentioned earlier)
-Pluto parallel the ascending degree
-Pluto/8th house Jupiter partile opposition

1929 STOCK MARKET CRASH AND WORLD ECONOMIC COLLAPSE
October 29, 1929, 10 AM (opening bell), New York City
-8th house Pluto partile square with Mercury (Mercury significator of money and commerce, buying and selling)
-Pluto partile quincunx ascending degree
-Pluto parallel Jupiter (Jupiter significator of wealth, established business entities, etc)
-Pluto opposed by 2nd house Lilith (2nd house = $$ house; house of substance and wealth; Lilith conjunct 2nd whole sign house cusp of the chart)
-Pluto in parallel of latitude with Mars, with Jupiter and with Uranus

UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS (AUSTIN) MASSACRE
August 1, 1966, 1:48 PM (first shot from the tower), Austin, Texas
-12th house Pluto partile conjunct Uranus
-Pluto parallel Sun, parallel North Node
-Pluto/Lilith opposition

START OF THE KOREAN WAR
June 25, 1950, 5:12 AM, Kaesong, Korea
-Pluto parallel ascending degree
-Pluto parallel Sun, parallel Uranus
-Pluto/Lilith square

BATH MICHIGAN SCHOOL BOMBING (largest loss of life in a school attack in US history)
May 18, 1927, 8:45 AM, Bath, Michigan
-First house Pluto conjunct ascending degree
-Pluto conjunct Mars (in first house)
-Pluto/Moon quincunx

START OF AMERICAN CIVIL WAR (a rather transformational event!)
(Bombardment of Fort Sumter) April 12, 1861, 4:30 AM, Charleston harbor, South Carolina
-Pluto parallel ascending degree
-Neptune was atmakaraka of the event chart: Pluto parallels Neptune

CHALLENGER SPACE SHUTTLE (NASA) DISASTER
January 28, 1986, 11:38 AM, Cape Canaveral, Florida
-7th house Pluto partile opposition to the ascending degree
-Pluto/Mercury partile square
-Pluto/Sun partile square
-Pluto/Venus square

ASSASSINATION OF ARCHDUKE FERDINAND HAPSBURG (trigger to World War 1)
June 28, 1914, 10:50 AM, Sarajevo
-Pluto/Sun conjunction

SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL MASSACRE
December 14, 2012, 9:35 AM, Newtown, Mass.
-First house Pluto/Moon conjunction (Pluto conjunct fixed star Facies)
-Pluto/Uranus square
-Pluto/Jupiter partile quincunx

UTOYA ISLAND MASSACRE
July 22, 2011, 5:22 PM, Utoya Island, Norway
-Pluto parallel ascending degree
-Pluto square MC
-Pluto in parallel of latitude with Moon

COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTINGS
April 20, 1999, 11:19 AM, Littleton, Colorado
-Pluto parallel Mars
-12th house Venus partile opposition to Pluto
 

poyi

Premium Member
I can't explain how joyful I am that Outer planets are truly valuable in predictive astrology. And the fact that with the discovery of Outer planets we do have enough information to dig deeper into the world around us and inside us.

I am happy as Astrology moving forward to another level right in our lifetime. I have been seeing some traditional astrologers online laughing at modern astrology saying modern astrology is only about psychology with no actual substance of doing accurate, adequate predictions. I am more than excited in our lifetime, we again making major breakthrough in astrology.

*I am not saying Traditional astrology or astrologers are not good enough.With all due respect, modern astrology is built based on the foundation of the traditional astrology. I just want more as I never feel satisfied that's just me.:pouty:
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I like all of astrology too:biggrin:! Modernist developments and insights, the wisdom of Traditional and Hellenist, the genius of Vedic: they are all great: that's why I am an eclectic:wink:!
 

poyi

Premium Member
I am the same. Always the black sheep in all areas of life. I do what I want. Who cares?:biggrin:

Your insights of OOB Moon made a lot of sense how I behave which is also never been used by traditional astrologers I think...

Whatever it works have bigger voice to me. Show me and I will make my own judgement. I am also eclectic.
 

Mandy

Well-known member
Good golly molly, what a wealth of valuable information. I apologise for my absence due to university deadlines. Thank you all for your time and astoundingly comprehensive input.

Saturn never brings up the unexpected or the atavistic-it either keeps things buried, or supports the status quo and is antithetical to change, especially so to transformational changes, so Pluto is very different from Saturn in this regard.

In keeping, briefly, with Pluto vs. Saturn (broad) comparison...but people do experience transformational changes during their Saturn Return, do they not? Whilst Saturn is antithetical to change, streotypically, there is change. Often people report loss, or marriage, divorce, birth of first child, etc., at their first Saturn Return. These are inherently trasformational life periods (that may be not supported by Pluto), although from what I have seen they are seldom unexpected. There is always forsight. So, I guess with Pluto one of the principal distinctions (from Saturn) is "unexpected" or unforseen transformation. Thank you Dr. Farr for your delineations and exemplary charts showing the prominance of Pluto.

I could not help but notice that all of the examples given refer to actual death. But I see that from the perspective of mundane charts, these events had brought existing problems to the surface.

From a more psychological perspective, I take it that the same will happen, existing problems will be brought to the surface, into awareness, forcing maybe a metaphorpical death. However, in some of the reading I have done, people may suffer with psychological illness during this time, often which does not resolve. Ignoring the medical model of psychological illness, would you say that is the outcome of supression/resistance to transformation? Or does it come about as a byproduct of not expecting, or knowing how to expect, a Plutonic eruption? Or both?

I realise that "atavism" has deeper implications that may recruit or operate at the genetic level. In this way, could Plutonic influence be seen as highly deterministic or even karmic? For example, it seems that which ever way I look at it, Pluto refers to death (pre)determined from conception or birth. Given that there is always reason for death, could it be that the outcome of Plutonic influence is exercised as a karmic settlement, of sorts? Or not? Is the underlying reason for this 'death' theme related symbolically to Pluto being the final planet and thus the end of life, the mystery of what lies beyond?

 
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poyi

Premium Member
I think when people experience radical changes during Saturn return would possibly be the relation of Saturn naturally ruled one's status, public image as Capricorn and 10th house.

This leads me to think of the change to becoming a parent that is 10th house matter, career again, status from being single to being married, even the change from Miss to Mrs, and change of surname also on legal paper and how the public called you. In regarding to loss, 10th house and Capricorn again representing the highest aspect of the person so literally falling off or sudden raise from and to the 10th house.

I think the changes of Saturn return are actually expected. As there is a pattern and involving the nature of 10th house and Capricorn. Saturn is restriction and intensify matter by minimizing it's size and resources opposition to the nature of Jupiter. So it can be felt as being extreme similar to Pluto. I personally think the nature of Pluto is a mix of Mars and Saturn.
 

Neptune Rising

Well-known member
Pluto is about learning to use your personal power, your not going to back down from a confrontation when pluto becomes strong by transit/progession, it's like when 2 dogs meet for the first time, they sniff each other and if there is no agreement on who is the boss then they will fight to establish who is the top dog!....people who are going through a plutonian phase do the same thing when interacting with other people...

I can so relate to this. Pluto is by parallel and transit strong in my chart. Natal Pluto at/near Midheaven, Pluto tr square Pluto, Pluto tr conjunct natal Sun/Mars midpoint and Pluto transit parallel (conjunct) natal Sun. Plus progressed Moon in the 8th house. I can relate my personal experience to none of the other planets. I've always had a problem owning my own personal power, but this period now is making me claim it. Its a bit like a fight to survive and no more being a scapegoat (Neptune conjunct Ascenant, etc etc). I've also drawn three Scorpio men into my life this year, all which have indirectly helped me recognise my own power (one of them is a very 'underground' character!). I find it a prolonged lesson, not necessarily bursting out all at once, but more of a build up from my inner self over a period of time, waiting for a catalyst to be drawn out and expressed.
 
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